RG or RT?

[PeterBowman]

anyone know what Gosder's injuries that he was dealing with all year?

 

I never really saw a specific one.

[Superman]

Personally, I don't see why we have to choose one or another.  I think both are major needs, that should be addressed.  Don't want to take a chance on Cherilus?  That's fine, cut him and sign somebody via FA, with the money we save by cutting Gosder.  When it comes to a Guard, we should cut D. Thomas, and either pickup a G 1st round in the draft, somebody who is ready to play now, or have a replacement via FA.  I think Holmes will be fine moving forward.  Mewhort should be better next season, and if we were to get a good Guard, I think the OL would be just fine.

 

I probably didn't frame the question properly. My objective was to find out which position people think most needs immediate help. Which position would significantly affect our offense if it were addressed with an average to above average free agent signing. My question was NOT "if you had to fix one spot, which would it be," and I understand that some probably didn't get it right away.

[Superman]

Wondering how all this shakes out if we keep Donald Thomas and he makes it through training camp?

 

I don't think they can/will keep Donald Thomas. It's too costly if he gets hurt again. You can't release an injured player, so if he gets hurt during the offseason program and isn't medically cleared before Week 1, the team has to pay him. I don't see them taking that risk.

[krunk]

I don't think they can/will keep Donald Thomas. It's too costly if he gets hurt again. You can't release an injured player, so if he gets hurt during the offseason program and isn't medically cleared before Week 1, the team has to pay him. I don't see them taking that risk.

 

 

You are probably very right!  I'm just addressing scenarios.  I don't have much belief he'll be here either.  What do think about Ballards situation?

[Superman]

You are probably very right!  I'm just addressing scenarios.  I don't have much belief he'll be here either.  What do think about Ballards situation?

 

Less risky. His salary is $660K. If he gets hurt again and the team has to hold him on IR, it's kind of a shrug. He should be able to make a complete recovery by camp. They could even keep him on PUP through the first half of the season, if they wanted.

 

Donald Thomas would cost the team $3.5m if he gets hurt again. Similarly, Gosder would cost the team $4m if he got hurt again. To me, it's not worth the risk. We could use that cap space on a top notch starter at guard or tackle, and not miss either of them.

[Doctor Mad]

Sign Iupati for RG. Major upgrade!

[ColtStronger]

I probably didn't frame the question properly. My objective was to find out which position people think most needs immediate help. Which position would significantly affect our offense if it were addressed with an average to above average free agent signing. My question was NOT "if you had to fix one spot, which would it be," and I understand that some probably didn't get it right away.

I knew what you meant, but I was just saying, perhaps they are both equally important needs at this point.  I didn't consider that the Colts may cut Gosder, which is seemingly more obvious as I read this thread.  If he is cut, I would say both are top priorities heading into FA and the draft. IMO the priorities should be:

 

G&T

ILB

NT

S

 

There are other needs but these are the obvious ones that need to be fixed this season.

 

I like Landry and Cherilus, but their contracts are too heavy for us.  Landry should either restructure or be cut, and if the opportunity presents itself, getting a pro bowl caliber T in FA or very early on in the draft.  Then we could cut Gosder w/o any worries.  If we swapped those two guys out and brought in new talent at those positions, I think that would be our best bet. 

[Gavin]

With as much running as we do up the middle RG, We use our Guards to pull a lot (specifically RG)....We don't have one that does it well enough

[Surge89]

Let's assume that we have our LT, LG and C positions established for 2015, with Castonzo, Mewhort and Holmes. And let's assume that we set out to upgrade either the RG or RT position via free agency, but only one or the other. Which position would you choose to address?

 

Also, let's say we're getting an average to above average player at one of those positions, on an affordable contract, and we expect him to be healthy. 

 

Which position upgrade would have the most impact on our offense? How would our reserve/competition look at the other position?

 

Just curious what others think.

 

Hmmm... In free agency I'd like to address the RG with the RT being addressed in the draft.  Reasoning for this would be that the type of inside runs and pulls we do requires some savy and a talented RT that can anchor a line might be available to us when we draft in the first.  BUT if by some miracle McKinney fell and we can grab a good RT in Free Agency then you will hear no complaints from me :-)

[DougDew]

What kind of contract do you think Reitz would take?

The one that pays him the most money. (insert smiley face if function was working)

I don't follow contracts well enough to say really. However, I know that people want to cut starting and contributing veterans like RJF, Landry, and Walden for making like $4MM when the salary cap is like $140MM. They are being pretty harsh, IMO.

How about 3 yrs/ $10mill with $3.5mil guaranteed? And do this right away, thinking that the colts can use him as a plug for either the LG, RG, or RT spot. See how the draft and FA options align themselves, and put Reitz into the position that goes unfilled via those avenues.

Again, if Reitz is the weak spot on the OL, the OL would be very good.

[akcolt]

It really depends. Truthfully (after looking at NFL.com's free agent by position list) there aren't many home-run tackles or guys that are obvious upgrades to Cherilus at RT that aren't on the wrong side of 30.

When you look at our offensive line, we have

Castonzo- Solid player

Mewhort- Solid, but only a rookie

Holmes- tends to get bullied on the inside

Whoever at RG- tends to look like a revolving door

Cherilus - Average to slightly above average RT.

If I were to pick one position to fix, It would be getting a RG. I think free agency is deeper for guards.

However, if I may go on a tangent, I'd just sign Stefan Wisniewski at C and move Holmes to RG with Shipley as depth, but since that was not an option- I'll have to go with the RG first.

I like Wisniewski at C too at this point I just have trouble trusting holmes even going back to college when is the last time he had a healthy year? add that to alleged lazy rehab. It's crazy we are still looking for a C

It shouldn't be so difficult to find a C. I would look at Newton at RT 27 yrs old should fit the criteria of average to above average and reasonable price

My opinion is we need significant upgrades on the DL and ILB to be the last team standing speed and some toughness I'm not one for big FA signings but I'd love to see Grigs bring in a splash player for the front 7 and hit D hard in the draft

[Superman]

I like Wisniewski at C too at this point I just have trouble trusting holmes even going back to college when is the last time he had a healthy year? add that to alleged lazy rehab. It's crazy we are still looking for a C

It shouldn't be so difficult to find a C. I would look at Newton at RT 27 yrs old should fit the criteria of average to above average and reasonable price

My opinion is we need significant upgrades on the DL and ILB to be the last team standing speed and some toughness I'm not one for big FA signings but I'd love to see Grigs bring in a splash player for the front 7 and hit D hard in the draft

 

He ought to be the Texans first priority, but if they let him get away, I'd be happy to have him. Something around $5m/year ought to get it done.

[thecorn4]

I read a report from cbssports.com, that said Gosder  had his knee scoped, but was also dealing with groin and shoulder injury this season.  The article went on to say that he should be fine, and ready for offseason programs.  If that is the case, bring him back.  There is not a free agent RT that would be such a huge upgrade, or better option imo.  Address the guard spot in free agency, then in the later rounds pick-up a guard/tackle. 

[Superman]

I also think that Mewhort would be a better RT than LG.  He played well at LG because he is a very good, versatile, OLineman....but I don't think that his natural position is LG.

 

I think he's best on the inside, actually. He was mostly a tackle in college, but he's a little slow footed and lacking in range. He'd be an average RT, but I think he can be an above average or better guard.

 

You and I may have talked about this before...

 

Anyways, ideally, I'd leave him at LG. He worked well with AC. And I think there are a number of ways we can add a RT, I think.

[DougDew]

I think he's best on the inside, actually. He was mostly a tackle in college, but he's a little slow footed and lacking in range. He'd be an average RT, but I think he can be an above average or better guard.

 

You and I may have talked about this before...

 

Anyways, ideally, I'd leave him at LG. He worked well with AC. And I think there are a number of ways we can add a RT, I think.

Yes we have. My concern is that when Mewhort pulls and traps at LG, he is slow and too weak, the block lacks punch, if it even works at all.

At RT, I think he can adequately direct the rusher to the outside of Luck, and on outside running plays or passes to the flat, the RT many times is on a OLB or even a S or CB, so brute strength is not an issue as it is with taking on a DT or an ILB as a G.

I think the best approach is to not pigeon hole JM or Reitz into any particular position at this point and see how the draft and FA works out with availability. I think JM and Reitz can probably play any G position or RT. I just want to avoid having to use a top three round pick on the OL.

I like Tyler Lockett as a WR too. The Colts need a YAC WR or RB quite badly, even if they sign Duron Carter. I would use the late second rounder on him if he was there (I think his stock will rise). Another reason to not go OL early. Get a proven vet G or RT in FA.

[aaron11]

guard.  CG has not been bad when healthy, he fought injuries all season.  hes probably over paid, but we would be very hard pressed to replace him with anyone better.  our first pick cannot be an OT and there are never any ready to go starters left in the late second round.

 

if we go after a free agent then we will have to over pay him just like CG.

[Dark_Indy]

I like Wisniewski at C too at this point I just have trouble trusting holmes even going back to college when is the last time he had a healthy year? add that to alleged lazy rehab. It's crazy we are still looking for a C

It shouldn't be so difficult to find a C. I would look at Newton at RT 27 yrs old should fit the criteria of average to above average and reasonable price

My opinion is we need significant upgrades on the DL and ILB to be the last team standing speed and some toughness I'm not one for big FA signings but I'd love to see Grigs bring in a splash player for the front 7 and hit D hard in the draft

 

If we could get Wiz at $6 mil a year and a tackle at $4-5 mil and lock them up for a few years, our O-Line would be (theoretically) set.

[DougDew]

guard.  CG has not been bad when healthy, he fought injuries all season.  hes probably over paid, but we would be very hard pressed to replace him with anyone better.  our first pick cannot be an OT and there are never any ready to go starters left in the late second round.

 

if we go after a free agent then we will have to over pay him just like CG.

I think I agree with a FA G (Uh..that's Free Agent Guard). If you KNOW that a RG will be good, then you pay him 125% of his value, thinking that he can help out the 75% RT you would have in CG, JM, Reitz, Ulrich John, or a draft choice.....if that makes sense.

But you might have to cut CG to afford the G.

[CanuckColt]

RT...we need to get this position solid.

[Superman]

 

If we could get Wiz at $6 mil a year and a tackle at $4-5 mil and lock them up for a few years, our O-Line would be (theoretically) set.

 

 

Here's my problem with that.

Player         2015         2016         2017        2018         2019Cherilus      $2.9m       $5.8m       Castonzo      $6.0m       $6.5m         $7.0m        $7.5m        $8.0mWisniewski    $5.5m       $6.0m         $6.0m        $6.5m        FA Tackle     $3.5m       $4.0m         $4.5m        $5.0m Mewhort       $0.8m       $1.0m         $1.1mTOTAL         $18.7m      $23.3m        $18.6m       $19.0        $8.0m

1) That's not economical. It's a lot of money to pay for 80% of your starting OL. We don't have a RG in that calculation, and we don't have the bench in that calculation. (I'm assuming an extension for Castonzo, rather than keeping him on the Year 5 option at $7.4m. That actually saves you $1.4m in 2015.)

 

2) We'd be tossing aside low paid young guys at the least physically demanding position in the league, to sign an average starting center to a top ten contract.

 

3) As I stated in #2, I think Wisniewski is average, not worth $6m/year.

 

I think it's critical that we fix the offensive line. Key word being "fix," with no qualifier. Not 'try to fix,' not 'do all we can to fix,' but FIX it, finally. It's been too long that the Indianapolis Colts have had a substandard offensive line, for a myriad of reasons. So it's not that I think we should be cheap with the offensive line. But I do think we need to be smart. We need quality players, yes, but we also need depth, and we need to develop young guys. And we still have to be mindful of the future need to re-sign the four key guys from the 2012 draft.

[Dark_Indy]

 

 

 

 

Here's my problem with that.

Player         2015         2016         2017        2018         2019Cherilus      $2.9m       $5.8m       Castonzo      $6.0m       $6.5m         $7.0m        $7.5m        $8.0mWisniewski    $5.5m       $6.0m         $6.0m        $6.5m        FA Tackle     $3.5m       $4.0m         $4.5m        $5.0m Mewhort       $0.8m       $1.0m         $1.1mTOTAL         $18.7m      $23.3m        $18.6m       $19.0        $8.0m

1) That's not economical. It's a lot of money to pay for 80% of your starting OL. We don't have a RG in that calculation, and we don't have the bench in that calculation. (I'm assuming an extension for Castonzo, rather than keeping him on the Year 5 option at $7.4m. That actually saves you $1.4m in 2015.)

 

2) We'd be tossing aside low paid young guys at the least physically demanding position in the league, to sign an average starting center to a top ten contract.

 

3) As I stated in #2, I think Wisniewski is average, not worth $6m/year.

 

I think it's critical that we fix the offensive line. Key word being "fix," with no qualifier. Not 'try to fix,' not 'do all we can to fix,' but FIX it, finally. It's been too long that the Indianapolis Colts have had a substandard offensive line, for a myriad of reasons. So it's not that I think we should be cheap with the offensive line. But I do think we need to be smart. We need quality players, yes, but we also need depth, and we need to develop young guys. And we still have to be mindful of the future need to re-sign the four key guys from the 2012 draft.

 

 

Hell, offer Wiz 2 Mil a year. He's refusing to take a contract from Oakland, and he's only 25 with starting experience. That will still double his money that he was making (last contract 4 years 4 mil and change). He's an upgrade over Holmes/Harrison/Shipley at Center. 

 

Speaking of Holmes, I think if we sign a center, we can shift him over to RG and replace Thornton. 

 

Who do we grab at RT? It's getting likely that Cherilus is done. However, Free Agency is really really thin at RT. Do we reach for one in the draft? Convert another lineman over? What about Donald Thomas, can he stay healthy for more than one game/training camp? If so, an offensive line using Thomas at RG and Mewhort at RT "could" succeed. 

 

To be honest, the Colts are eating a crap sandwich when it comes to the O-Line. We have two good offensive linemen and a handful of question marks.

 

I'm interested in how the Front Office tackles this and the continued need at D-Line and LB. 

[Superman]

Hell, offer Wiz 2 Mil a year. He's refusing to take a contract from Oakland, and he's only 25 with starting experience. That will still double his money that he was making (last contract 4 years 4 mil and change). He's an upgrade over Holmes/Harrison/Shipley at Center. 

 

Speaking of Holmes, I think if we sign a center, we can shift him over to RG and replace Thornton. 

 

Who do we grab at RT? It's getting likely that Cherilus is done. However, Free Agency is really really thin at RT. Do we reach for one in the draft? Convert another lineman over? What about Donald Thomas, can he stay healthy for more than one game/training camp? If so, an offensive line using Thomas at RG and Mewhort at RT "could" succeed. 

 

To be honest, the Colts are eating a crap sandwich when it comes to the O-Line. We have two good offensive linemen and a handful of question marks.

 

I'm interested in how the Front Office tackles this and the continued need at D-Line and LB. 

 

That was Wisniewski's slotted rookie contract, not an indication of his value. He'll be a free agent, someone will offer him a decent contract. He might get $6m/year, I just don't think it makes sense, especially for us. I know our team has ongoing issues at center, but it's really not that hard to find a capable guy. It's the least physically demanding position on the line. I think Holmes is going to be the guy.

 

I'm going to do a mock at some point. I've been thinking through a bunch of different strategies about how to best address the need at OL. It's the single biggest issue facing the offense, and if it gets fixed, it makes the entire team better right away.

 

Problem is, the best lines are typically home-grown, not bought. The Eagles were able to take a cheap vet and watch him turn into one of the best linemen in the league, but their line is mostly a collection of unheralded talent from over here and over there. Their highest drafted guy went in the third round, and their best lineman was a UDFA. And those guys have been together for a while now. The Packers are mostly a bunch of 4th and 5th round guys; Bulaga and Sherrod were first rounders, but Sherrod missed most of this season, yet the Packers had one of the best pass blocking lines in the league.

 

The Cowboys have three first rounders (and two of the three are still cheap), but that's not the norm. And Leary and Parnell were UDFAs, and Free was a 4th rounder. 

 

So sometimes it just takes time and patience. But we don't really have a true RT on the roster right now, assuming Cherilus is gone. Lots of competition at guard and center, which is a good thing, but it needs to get settled at some point. I think signing a RT would be smart, as it would allow us to develop a mid to late round guy who can fill in at guard and eventually take over on the outside. 

[Dark_Indy]

That was Wisniewski's slotted rookie contract, not an indication of his value. He'll be a free agent, someone will offer him a decent contract. He might get $6m/year, I just don't think it makes sense, especially for us. I know our team has ongoing issues at center, but it's really not that hard to find a capable guy. It's the least physically demanding position on the line. I think Holmes is going to be the guy.

 

I'm going to do a mock at some point. I've been thinking through a bunch of different strategies about how to best address the need at OL. It's the single biggest issue facing the offense, and if it gets fixed, it makes the entire team better right away.

 

Problem is, the best lines are typically home-grown, not bought. The Eagles were able to take a cheap vet and watch him turn into one of the best linemen in the league, but their line is mostly a collection of unheralded talent from over here and over there. Their highest drafted guy went in the third round, and their best lineman was a UDFA. And those guys have been together for a while now. The Packers are mostly a bunch of 4th and 5th round guys; Bulaga and Sherrod were first rounders, but Sherrod missed most of this season, yet the Packers had one of the best pass blocking lines in the league.

 

The Cowboys have three first rounders (and two of the three are still cheap), but that's not the norm. And Leary and Parnell were UDFAs, and Free was a 4th rounder. 

 

So sometimes it just takes time and patience. But we don't really have a true RT on the roster right now, assuming Cherilus is gone. Lots of competition at guard and center, which is a good thing, but it needs to get settled at some point. I think signing a RT would be smart, as it would allow us to develop a mid to late round guy who can fill in at guard and eventually take over on the outside. 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you- but it's disheartening to watch as year after year the offensive line picks/FA's the Colts select are terrible.

 

Since 2012 (And not even comprehensive)

 

Winston Justice

Samson Satele

Mike McGlynn

Hugh Thornton

Khaled Holmes

Donald Thomas

Gosder Cherilus

Xavier Nixon

Jack Mewhort

Ulrich John

Jack Breckner

Phil Costa (Jerk)

Jonathon Harrison

Lance Louis

 

 

Out of those 14 guys, Gosder (when healthy) and Mewhort were the only two guys that showed any promise (Holmes hasn't shown enough, but still more than Harrison and Thornton is garbage), and Gosder was signed to a bonkers deal after he already had injury issues. (That's already been discussed to death here though, so I'll digress.) That's a 14% success rate for Offensive linemen for the Colts in two years. That's flat discouraging.

[akcolt]

Yes we have. My concern is that when Mewhort pulls and traps at LG, he is slow and too weak, the block lacks punch, if it even works at all.

At RT, I think he can adequately direct the rusher to the outside of Luck, and on outside running plays or passes to the flat, the RT many times is on a OLB or even a S or CB, so brute strength is not an issue as it is with taking on a DT or an ILB as a G.

I think the best approach is to not pigeon hole JM or Reitz into any particular position at this point and see how the draft and FA works out with availability. I think JM and Reitz can probably play any G position or RT. I just want to avoid having to use a top three round pick on the OL.

I like Tyler Lockett as a WR too. The Colts need a YAC WR or RB quite badly, even if they sign Duron Carter. I would use the late second rounder on him if he was there (I think his stock will rise). Another reason to not go OL early. Get a proven vet G or RT in FA.

I agree with this he is slow I actually think Thorton might be the best LG on our team right now even though he has never played there to my knowledge. He has the athleticism to make the pulls and traps. I haven't thrown in the towel on Hugh just yet.  

 

As crazy as it is C is STILL the biggest question mark I just don't see how you can count on Holmes when he has never stayed healthy and it took him what 15 weeks to recover from a preseason ankle injury that the staff said initially said he may be able to go week 1. Toss in the to much time on the training table comments it was obvious the staff was frustrated with him sounds like his work ethic. I really hope I am wrong an he holds down the position for years to come but I have found in life history is a pretty good predictor of the future 

[Jason_]

Yeah, I re-read it and I wasn't clear.

But assume we release Cherilus and save $4m against the cap in 2015. Does that change your perspective?

Not sure if you saw my previous edited reply but yes, that definitely changes the perspective and I would absolutely put RT as priority

[Superman]

Not sure if you saw my previous edited reply but yes, that definitely changes the perspective and I would absolutely put RT as priority

 

I didn't. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

Having thought it out and read a bunch of responses from everyone, I think that's the way to go. I was already leaning that way, but now I'm convinced. 

 

I would release Cherilus and Thomas, keep AC and Mewhort on the left side, pencil in Holmes at center, with competition from Harrison and Shipley. That's the easy part.

 

I think we can sign a capable vet at RT. Derek Newton or Jeremy Parnell would be nice additions; Newton would probably be more expensive. Some of these guys probably won't make it to free agency. Someone with experience and a history of solid play, for around $4-5m/year. 

 

Then we have an open competition at RG. Louis, Thornton, Harrison, Reitz (if we can re-sign him), draft picks and UDFAs, etc. 

[DougDew]

I didn't. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

Having thought it out and read a bunch of responses from everyone, I think that's the way to go. I was already leaning that way, but now I'm convinced. 

 

I would release Cherilus and Thomas, keep AC and Mewhort on the left side, pencil in Holmes at center, with competition from Harrison and Shipley. That's the easy part.

 

I think we can sign a capable vet at RT. Derek Newton or Jeremy Parnell would be nice additions; Newton would probably be more expensive. Some of these guys probably won't make it to free agency. Someone with experience and a history of solid play, for around $4-5m/year. 

 

Then we have an open competition at RG. Louis, Thornton, Harrison, Reitz (if we can re-sign him), draft picks and UDFAs, etc.

After rethinking this myself, I think that a FART instead of a FA G is a better option. !?! Doug Free and Parnell are probably better options at RT than are the FA G's, which I think are slimpickins.

So an OL of AC, JM, KH, JR, and Free, Parnell, Newton is probably the best option if CG is cut. Ulrick John and a late round G for added depth. JM and JR could play RT in a pinch too.

The only problem I see is that if you sign a FA RT from another team, there is an implication he will be a starter, and your 4-5 mil price just went up.

[Dark Superman]

Let's assume that we have our LT, LG and C positions established for 2015, with Castonzo, Mewhort and Holmes. And let's assume that we set out to upgrade either the RG or RT position via free agency, but only one or the other. Which position would you choose to address?

 

Also, let's say we're getting an average to above average player at one of those positions, on an affordable contract, and we expect him to be healthy. 

 

Which position upgrade would have the most impact on our offense? How would our reserve/competition look at the other position?

 

Just curious what others think.

I'd say upgrade RG and keep Cherilus.

[akcolt]

I didn't. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

Having thought it out and read a bunch of responses from everyone, I think that's the way to go. I was already leaning that way, but now I'm convinced. 

 

I would release Cherilus and Thomas, keep AC and Mewhort on the left side, pencil in Holmes at center, with competition from Harrison and Shipley. That's the easy part.

 

I think we can sign a capable vet at RT. Derek Newton or Jeremy Parnell would be nice additions; Newton would probably be more expensive. Some of these guys probably won't make it to free agency. Someone with experience and a history of solid play, for around $4-5m/year. 

 

Then we have an open competition at RG. Louis, Thornton, Harrison, Reitz (if we can re-sign him), draft picks and UDFAs, etc. 

Shipley is a FA I think he is gone. There is no way I'd resign here if I were him. He must think the OL coaches are stuck on stupid.

 

We keep Reitz he can do more things. Which leaves us in a mess at C AGAIN unless Harrison can get it together. I just have a hard time seeing Holmes staying healthy based on his past. I sure don't think it would be wise to put all our eggs in that basket again this year. I won't deny I like what I see when he is on the field but man 15 weeks to recover from an ankle sprain or at least crack the line up is a lot of time.

 

What would be the cap hit to cut GC? For some reason I thought it was a pretty big hit in dead money this year next year would be the year to cut him.. I just saw it would only be 2.9 M post June 1st is that correct? That would be a great chance to see what he has left then make a decision. Either way RT needs to be addressed in the draft best case scenario GC has a year left in Indy IMO.

 

You think trying Thorton on the left side is just crazy? He can make those pulls and traps better than Mewhort and allows Mewhort to be a road grader something I think he would be really good at on the right side  Just a thought seems it would allow both to play to their strengths. I know Hugh isn't seen as much of a lineman on here but I  am not quite ready to give up on the guy plus he is still on  his rookie contract. I think he has better feet than Mewhort.

[Superman]

Shipley is a FA I think he is gone. There is no way I'd resign here if I were him. He must think the OL coaches are stuck on stupid.

We keep Reitz he can do more things. Which leaves us in a mess at C AGAIN unless Harrison can get it together. I just have a hard time seeing Holmes staying healthy based on his past. I sure don't think it would be wise to put all our eggs in that basket again this year. I won't deny I like what I see when he is on the field but man 15 weeks to recover from an ankle sprain or at least crack the line up is a lot of time.

What would be the cap hit to cut GC? For some reason I thought it was a pretty big hit in dead money this year next year would be the year to cut him.. I just saw it would only be 2.9 M post June 1st is that correct? That would be a great chance to see what he has left then make a decision. Either way RT needs to be addressed in the draft best case scenario GC has a year left in Indy IMO.

You think trying Thorton on the left side is just crazy? He can make those pulls and traps better than Mewhort and allows Mewhort to be a road grader something I think he would be really good at on the right side Just a thought seems it would allow both to play to their strengths. I know Hugh isn't seen as much of a lineman on here but I am not quite ready to give up on the guy plus he is still on his rookie contract. I think he has better feet than Mewhort.

Shipley is an RFA. If we want him we can keep him.

I don't think we have to put all our eggs in the Holmes basket. That's why we keep Shipley and keep working with Harrison.

Gosder has $8.7m in dead money to still hit the cap. If we keep him, we add $4m to that number. And I don't think he'll be worth it.

I'm not ready to give up on Thornton either. He played mostly LG in 2013. I think Mewhort is better, and works well with AC. I'd leave well enough alone over there. But Thornton can compete at RG.

[Superman]

After rethinking this myself, I think that a FART instead of a FA G is a better option. !?! Doug Free and Parnell are probably better options at RT than are the FA G's, which I think are slimpickins.

So an OL of AC, JM, KH, JR, and Free, Parnell, Newton is probably the best option if CG is cut. Ulrick John and a late round G for added depth. JM and JR could play RT in a pinch too.

The only problem I see is that if you sign a FA RT from another team, there is an implication he will be a starter, and your 4-5 mil price just went up.

I think Parnell at $4m/year is doable. Maybe a little more.

[mintor]

Let's assume that we have our LT, LG and C positions established for 2015, with Castonzo, Mewhort and Holmes. And let's assume that we set out to upgrade either the RG or RT position via free agency, but only one or the other. Which position would you choose to address?

 

Also, let's say we're getting an average to above average player at one of those positions, on an affordable contract, and we expect him to be healthy. 

 

Which position upgrade would have the most impact on our offense? How would our reserve/competition look at the other position?

 

Just curious what others think.

 better this draft has  7 great right guards in this year draft.  crazy not too draft one

[AntonMcG]

Shipley is an RFA. If we want him we can keep him.

I don't think we have to put all our eggs in the Holmes basket. That's why we keep Shipley and keep working with Harrison.

Gosder has $8.7m in dead money to still hit the cap. If we keep him, we add $4m to that number. And I don't think he'll be worth it.

I'm not ready to give up on Thornton either. He played mostly LG in 2013. I think Mewhort is better, and works well with AC. I'd leave well enough alone over there. But Thornton can compete at RG.

 

If we ever wanted to be able to consistently run the ball up the middle then we cannot have Holmes as our Center. He is decent in pass protection, but no matter who you have either side of him, he will never be capable of opening running lanes.

[Gavin]

If we ever wanted to be able to consistently run the ball up the middle then we cannot have Holmes as our Center. He is decent in pass protection, but no matter who you have either side of him, he will never be capable of opening running lanes.

He's a RG in our scheme...Pulling Guard...who should be also used to get to the 2nd level on a linebacker do to his athleticism

[Superman]

If we ever wanted to be able to consistently run the ball up the middle then we cannot have Holmes as our Center. He is decent in pass protection, but no matter who you have either side of him, he will never be capable of opening running lanes.

 

We ran reasonably well up the middle and to either side of center in the playoffs. And that's with Lance Louis at RG. I think Holmes has opened up some running lanes in his short time on the field, and besides that, I think running up the middle is more dependent on whether the guards can get push than on the center. 

 

Regardless, my point was that we don't have to hand anything to Holmes. We have/can have three centers under contract, and we can add center talent through the draft.

 

And a wild thought that I'm not in favor of but shouldn't be dismissed, Mike Mayock stated that he believes Mewhort's best pro position is center. He started our final preseason game at center, only 8 snaps, but still. And he was an All American center in high school. He might be the most talented center prospect on our roster, if you're willing to consider him as a center prospect at all.

 

All this to say that we have plenty of competition for Holmes at center, and if 2014 taught him anything, it should be that he can't take anything for granted and will have to work his butt off in order to get on and stay on the field. So I personally have him penciled in there, but I'm not emotionally vested in him being the man.

[John Dee]

Thomas is done sadly...    his injury is really bad and has occurred 2x now with the same quad.

 

He is done...   and very sad because he was a really good player.

 

That said...     My ideal situation...

 

MOVE Costanzo to RT,    GET a BETTER LT in FA,   and move Gos C to RG..  ...   Costanzo is not a bad :LT but he is not elite either.   He would be a perfect RT..    IF that  scenario was remotely possible?  All things being equal the Colts are OK at T   but G really needs upgraded no matter what.

 

And DL needs play makers....   

 

oh and Tevan Coleman..  hehehee

Wondering how all this shakes out if we keep Donald Thomas and he makes it through training camp?

[John Dee]

Gos was hurt all season...  and iNDY NEEDED HIM..   so he played, until it got the point he could not. 

 

The Staff dropped the ball on this deal.    Gos should have been sit way early in the season.     But..   nope. 

 

He was Indy's best lineman in 13 ...      he did not all of a sudden get old or forget how to play .   He will be fine..   that said,   move him to G.      and look for another T...   maybe a LT?  

 

I really like that idea.      If a LT is out there.??      which is a long shot.

I'd say upgrade RG and keep Cherilus.

[Gavin]

Gos was hurt all season...  and iNDY NEEDED HIM..   so he played, until it got the point he could not. 

 

The Staff dropped the ball on this deal.    Gos should have been sit way early in the season.     But..   nope. 

 

He was Indy's best lineman in 13 ...      he did not all of a sudden get old or forget how to play .   He will be fine..   that said,   move him to G.      and look for another T...   maybe a LT?  

 

I really like that idea.      If a LT is out there.??      which is a long shot.

Dude still cant run block worth a nickel of what he is making

[Track Guy]

We ran reasonably well up the middle and to either side of center in the playoffs. And that's with Lance Louis at RG. I think Holmes has opened up some running lanes in his short time on the field, and besides that, I think running up the middle is more dependent on whether the guards can get push than on the center. 

 

Regardless, my point was that we don't have to hand anything to Holmes. We have/can have three centers under contract, and we can add center talent through the draft.

 

And a wild thought that I'm not in favor of but shouldn't be dismissed, Mike Mayock stated that he believes Mewhort's best pro position is center. He started our final preseason game at center, only 8 snaps, but still. And he was an All American center in high school. He might be the most talented center prospect on our roster, if you're willing to consider him as a center prospect at all.

 

All this to say that we have plenty of competition for Holmes at center, and if 2014 taught him anything, it should be that he can't take anything for granted and will have to work his butt off in order to get on and stay on the field. So I personally have him penciled in there, but I'm not emotionally vested in him being the man.

 

I like our left side as is and I'm okay with penciling in Holmes and keeping Shipley and/or Harrison as either depth or competition. I'm also okay with having a competition at RG with Reitz and Thornton. But if we're coming in potentially a bit shaky at C and RG - which I think if we go with the guys on our roster, we are - I think we really need a + player at RT. Ideally a guy who has serviceable LT type pass blocking athleticism and is a good run blocker. I don't know where we could find such a player, except maybe the draft. And given that we pick at 29, it's hard to bank on getting a guy like that. 

[John Dee]

Do we really know that for fact?  after a year and a half of Trent being shoved down our throats?   Brad did fine...   as did Boom..

 

Just saying.     Trent made a lot of lineman look BAD.

Dude still cant run block worth a nickel of what he is making