RG or RT?

[Superman]

Let's assume that we have our LT, LG and C positions established for 2015, with Castonzo, Mewhort and Holmes. And let's assume that we set out to upgrade either the RG or RT position via free agency, but only one or the other. Which position would you choose to address?

 

Also, let's say we're getting an average to above average player at one of those positions, on an affordable contract, and we expect him to be healthy. 

 

Which position upgrade would have the most impact on our offense? How would our reserve/competition look at the other position?

 

Just curious what others think.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I'll be so happy with either hahaha.

[IndyD4U]

I would say RG would be more valuable. The center and RT would benefit from him

[12isthenew18]

RG. Cherilus could come back strong and we can't spend more on tackles

[Dustin]

RT of course. In a league ruled by spread offenses, RT is almost as important as LT. 

[Smash Mouth]

RG is the key.  Pressure up the middle is a killer for Luck.  He's so much better when he can step into his throws.  Like others have said, the RG helps the C and RT.

[Superman]

RT of course. In a league ruled by spread offenses, RT is almost as important as LT. 

 

Just because the league is ruled by spread offenses doesn't mean that we have to be a spread offense. As a matter of fact, as defenses adjust more and more to cover receivers and TEs, the teams that can run the ball effectively will be at an advantage. Wouldn't an upgrade at RG do more for the running game?

[HtownColt]

RG free agency and have Donald Thomas in a reserve role

RT in the draft to eventually replace Cherilus, and backup Castanzo and Cherilus in the mean time because there is zero depth behind them

[Dustin]

Just because the league is ruled by spread offenses doesn't mean that we have to be a spread offense. As a matter of fact, as defenses adjust more and more to cover receivers and TEs, the teams that can run the ball effectively will be at an advantage. Wouldn't an upgrade at RG do more for the running game?

 

I don't think there is much of a drop off from an average guard to an above-average guard. The Colts were one of the more effective team in the NFL last season running behind their RG (from a YPC standpoint) and that was with a revolving-door of journey men and backup players. 

 

I think the difference between an average RT vs an above-average RT is far greater. Thus, I would prefer the RT. 

[Jason_]

RG. Cherilus could come back strong and we can't spend more on tackles

 

Agreed.  I'd look for a long-term RG and see how Cherilus does next year. 

[12isthenew18]

RG free agency and have Donald Thomas in a reserve role

RT in the draft to eventually replace Cherilus

anything above vet min for thomas is overpaid

[BOTT]

RG

Gives Thorton more time to grow and I think with another visit to Germany the colts can get a other solid year from Cherilus. Address future RT problems with the draft....a guy that will also be able to back up the RG if need be while playing behind Cherilus

[BOTT]

RG free agency and have Donald Thomas in a reserve role

RT in the draft to eventually replace Cherilus, and backup Castanzo and Cherilus in the mean time because there is zero depth behind them

You better have a reserve for the reserve

[HtownColt]

anything above vet min for thomas is overpaid

He is under contract

[jameszeigler834]

Let's assume that we have our LT, LG and C positions established for 2015, with Castonzo, Mewhort and Holmes. And let's assume that we set out to upgrade either the RG or RT position via free agency, but only one or the other. Which position would you choose to address?

 

Also, let's say we're getting an average to above average player at one of those positions, on an affordable contract, and we expect him to be healthy. 

 

Which position upgrade would have the most impact on our offense? How would our reserve/competition look at the other position?

 

Just curious what others think.

RG.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

I really like Hugh Thornton. I may be in he minority but he is strong, tough and moves well for a guard. As for Gosder, he's a good RT but he ust looks a little slow at times when dealing with edge rushers.

 

If we could benefit from moving Gosder to guard while bringing on another Tackle who's starter material, Id like that.

[Superman]

Agreed.  I'd look for a long-term RG and see how Cherilus does next year. 

 

Not an option. Assume Cherilus is gone.

[ProblChld32]

I personally think RT, the outside pressure was kinda ridiculous this year. IMO if you have a solid LT, LG, C and RT you can kinda get away with a subpar RG. 

[Superman]

I don't think there is much of a drop off from an average guard to an above-average guard. The Colts were one of the more effective team in the NFL last season running behind their RG (from a YPC standpoint) and that was with a revolving-door of journey men and backup players. 

 

I think the difference between an average RT vs an above-average RT is far greater. Thus, I would prefer the RT. 

 

That's kind of my thinking at this point. We have up to four guys who can compete at RG, and it's an easier position to plug in a rookie if necessary. RT is the weak point, and it's a harder position for a rookie to fill.

[BOTT]

Not an option. Assume Cherilus is gone.

If that's the case RT

[Buck Showalter]

Man I miss the days of Tarik Glenn, Jake Scott, Jeff Saturday, & the Ryans...

[Coffeedrinker]

RT:  The interior looked solid in pass protection once Holmes became the starter, GC may or may not come back from his injury, it's my understanding that it's degenerative, and I like Joe R. but he has too many ??? with his health as well.

 

Additionally, Thornton is a good guard and I would like to see he and Holmes and Mewhort together.

 

Draft Haverstein and if GC plays well then he gets a year to learn, if his injury poses a problem then there is a guy who can step in like Mewhort did and take over the spot.

[12isthenew18]

He is under contract

i'm aware

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I would be fine with either.  It depends on what we decide to do with the running game.

 

If we want to run the ball how we have been (or at least how we have been trying to) run the ball the past few years, I think a road-grader at RG may be more beneficial.  If we switch to a zone-blocking scheme (doubtful), a RT might be more beneficial for pass-protection purposes.

 

Costanzo is solid at LT, protecting Luck's blindside, and we have a very good blocking TE (Allen) and a pretty good blocking TE (Doyle) who we could potentially use to help out either tackle.  I think we need to upgrade our running backs (Bradshaw and Ballard too much injury concern, Boom played well but isn't full-season tested and I think we could find someone better than him), but if we have a RB that can pass-block and catch (both Boom and Bradshaw, and even Trent are pretty good at this), it could also allow us to focus more on RG that RT.

 

Sadly, I think Cherilus' should think about hanging them up.  The injury he suffered before signing with us for a guy as big as he is, and with the guys as big as he has to use his legs against, is a very serious one -- how bad he re-aggravated it, I'm not sure but his play definitely declined tremendously as the season went on before he was placed on IR.  I won't rule out a possibility for his return, but I won't count on it either.

 

All that said, if a stud at either position falls to us in the draft or we have the opportunity to sign one in FA without killing the salary cap, I think upgrading either (or both) positions will not hurt us, so I'd prob draft Best Player Available.

[AntonMcG]

RT and it isn't that close, the position has considerably more value for a reason. A quality bookend coupled with a decent centre will negate the errors of the RG much more than vice versa.

 

Plus, there are far more genuine pass-pushing threats lined up at LOLB and LDE (in a 4-3) than DT or LDE (in a 3-4).

[Valpo2004]

RG. . . Cherilus is at the very least serviceable.  

 

Plus if we are going FA, guards cost less then tackles. 

[Valpo2004]

RT and it isn't that close, the position has considerably more value for a reason. A quality bookend coupled with a decent centre will negate the errors of the RG much more than vice versa.

 

Plus, there are far more genuine pass-pushing threats lined up at LOLB and LDE (in a 4-3) than DT or LDE (in a 3-4).

 

Position has more value because there are less people that can do it well, not necessarily because it's more important to winning.  

[Superman]

Position has more value because there are less people that can do it well, not necessarily because it's more important to winning.  

 

Assuming we have neither, which would be the priority in free agency? 

[AntonMcG]

Position has more value because there are less people that can do it well, not necessarily because it's more important to winning.  

 

* It is a harder position to play, requires rarer skillset.

* They are faced with better quality of pass-rushers.

* They often have to prevent the edge being set by the defense.

 

Guard is important, but Tackle is more important... at both sides.

[Superman]

RT:  The interior looked solid in pass protection once Holmes became the starter, GC may or may not come back from his injury, it's my understanding that it's degenerative, and I like Joe R. but he has too many ??? with his health as well.

 

Additionally, Thornton is a good guard and I would like to see he and Holmes and Mewhort together.

 

Draft Haverstein and if GC plays well then he gets a year to learn, if his injury poses a problem then there is a guy who can step in like Mewhort did and take over the spot.

 

It's absolutely degenerative. I'm assuming Gosder is gone. I'm sure that only reaffirms your position that RT is the priority.

[Jdubu]

I would be fine with either. It depends on what we decide to do with the running game.

If we want to run the ball how we have been (or at least how we have been trying to) run the ball the past few years, I think a road-grader at RG may be more beneficial. If we switch to a zone-blocking scheme (doubtful), a RT might be more beneficial for pass-protection purposes.

Costanzo is solid at LT, protecting Luck's blindside, and we have a very good blocking TE (Allen) and a pretty good blocking TE (Doyle) who we could potentially use to help out either tackle. I think we need to upgrade our running backs (Bradshaw and Ballard too much injury concern, Boom played well but isn't full-season tested and I think we could find someone better than him), but if we have a RB that can pass-block and catch (both Boom and Bradshaw, and even Trent are pretty good at this), it could also allow us to focus more on RG that RT.

Sadly, I think Cherilus' should think about hanging them up. The injury he suffered before signing with us for a guy as big as he is, and with the guys as big as he has to use his legs against, is a very serious one -- how bad he re-aggravated it, I'm not sure but his play definitely declined tremendously as the season went on before he was placed on IR. I won't rule out a possibility for his return, but I won't count on it either.

All that said, if a stud at either position falls to us in the draft or we have the opportunity to sign one in FA without killing the salary cap, I think upgrading either (or both) positions will not hurt us, so I'd prob draft Best Player Available.

I'd highly doubt cherilus hangs them up and leaves all that money on the table unless he just can't walk anymore. We would have to be the ones to initiate his retirement by cutting him imo. My two cents is you draft a RT and buy a RG in FA this year.

The team has to decide on how to move forward with their running game. Power running or zone blocking scheme. Who will be the featured RB? Once they figure out these two areas, they can better plan on personnel.

[akcolt]

RT harder to find and more expensive you said reasonable contract right? you can kick T's into play G not so easy the other way around. RT is just more valuable in my opinion

I really hope your assumption on Holmes is correct that's the real issue training table warrior if he can stay healthy that would be great

[Jason_]

Not an option. Assume Cherilus is gone.

 

Hey, I played by the rules you put forward in the initial post lol

 

and by the way, if that's the case then I change my answer to RT.

[Superman]

RT harder to find and more expensive you said reasonable contract right? you can kick T's into play G not so easy the other way around. RT is just more valuable in my opinion

I really hope your assumption on Holmes is correct that's the real issue training table warrior if he can stay healthy that would be great

 

For whatever reason, we've had issues at center, but it's really not that hard to find a capable center. I think our issues at center and RG were magnified in 2013 because we had two really bad players, side by side, and then I think our staff made it more difficult than it needed to be in 2014. We could keep Shipley and/or Harrison to backup the center position, and I think we'd be fine there.

 

And besides, I think Khaled's ankle injury was unavoidable, and I don't ding him for it. When a 300 pound guy rolls up your leg, you're going to get hurt. What I ding him for is I think he took so long to get back on the field because he didn't impress the staff with his rehab and practice habits. That's absolute conjecture, based on some of Grigson's comments, but I think he had a 4-6 week injury and could have been back out there a lot sooner. Hopefully that's all in the past.

[Superman]

Hey, I played by the rules you put forward in the initial post lol

 

Yeah, I re-read it and I wasn't clear.

 

But assume we release Cherilus and save $4m against the cap in 2015. Does that change your perspective?

[Dark_Indy]

It really depends. Truthfully (after looking at NFL.com's free agent by position list) there aren't many home-run tackles or guys that are obvious upgrades to Cherilus at RT that aren't on the wrong side of 30.

 

When you look at our offensive line, we have

 

Castonzo- Solid player

Mewhort- Solid, but only a rookie

Holmes- tends to get bullied on the inside

Whoever at RG- tends to look like a revolving door

Cherilus - Average to slightly above average RT. 

 

If I were to pick one position to fix, It would be getting a RG. I think free agency is deeper for guards.

 

However, if I may go on a tangent, I'd just sign Stefan Wisniewski at C and move Holmes to RG with Shipley as depth, but since that was not an option- I'll have to go with the RG first.

[HtownColt]

i'm aware

Then why would he be at vet minimum?

[COLTS449]

IMO it has to be RG because I think if Cherilus is healthy next season he'll be fine. I mean he was pretty good in his first season here. What I'd do personally is bring in a G via free agency like Iupati or Franklin. That would most likely mean Mewhort would be moved to RG. 

[21isSuperman]

I've heard people say that RG is the least important position on the line.  A RT might be on an island in pass protection, but the RG could have the C or the RT helping him.  It would be nice to have a great pulling guard for the running game, but I would rather go with a great RT than a great  RG.  With that said, you asked which position upgrade would have the biggest impact on our offense.  I think our RG play was worse than our RT play, so I think a better RG would improve our offense more.  While overpaid in my opinion, Cherilus has shown he can play well when healthy

[akcolt]

For whatever reason, we've had issues at center, but it's really not that hard to find a capable center. I think our issues at center and RG were magnified in 2013 because we had two really bad players, side by side, and then I think our staff made it more difficult than it needed to be in 2014. We could keep Shipley and/or Harrison to backup the center position, and I think we'd be fine there.

 

And besides, I think Khaled's ankle injury was unavoidable, and I don't ding him for it. When a 300 pound guy rolls up your leg, you're going to get hurt. What I ding him for is I think he took so long to get back on the field because he didn't impress the staff with his rehab and practice habits. That's absolute conjecture, based on some of Grigson's comments, but I think he had a 4-6 week injury and could have been back out there a lot sooner. Hopefully that's all in the past.

I agree it shouldn't be hard to find a capable C but we have had a go of it. I like Holmes hope he can stay healthy unfortunately his track record doesn't leave me optimistic. Totally agree with you about the staffs frustration with Holmes recovery time.

 

I think the O line is close its the other side of the ball I would focus on more speed