Why Not Rgiii

[BmoreColt]

RGIII has 369 pass attempts this year.

Luck has 373 pass atempts this year.

The notion that RGIII is a passing quarterback while Luck plays in a run first system may not be true. Luck has attempted more passes than RGIII, so either Luck is not in a run first system and has an effective running game to go along with the passing game, or RGIII is not as much of a passing quarterback as some may think.

Does that take into account the amount of time their respective offenses were on the field? Or the quick strike touchdown abilities of the teams (Average yard per pass attempt)? Consider RGIII and the Baylor offense score rather quickly, afterall for the longest time he had more touchdowns than incompletions, this means they are efficient and score on quicker drives..

[Flash7]

Does that take into account the amount of time their respective offenses were on the field? Or the quick strike touchdown abilities of the teams (Average yard per pass attempt)? Consider RGIII and the Baylor offense score rather quickly, afterall for the longest time he had more touchdowns than incompletions, this means they are efficient and score on quicker drives..

This takes the whole season into account. There may have been some quick strikes, but not enough to mathematically skew 369 pass attempts one way or another. Using statistics and math, there will be a variance, but the amount of data is more than enough to state that these are accurate numbers. Also take into account winning percentages. If Baylor was such a quick strike offense, they would have more wins.

RGIII's average yards per attempt were 10.8 while Luck's was 9.3.

[super8todd]

Right cause athletic pocket passers never make it in this league...

This is exactly my point. Athletic pocket passers are the majority of success in this league.

[super8todd]

They actually don't but they are entertaining.

Okay. I think taking advice from someone who spells their name with extra n's and z's makes much more sense. You must be very proud to be credible and the foremost authority of accurate information because for instance, you can't even spell 'skins' correctly.

[jskinnz]

Okay. I think taking advice from someone who spells their name with extra n's and z's makes much more sense. You must be very proud to be credible and the foremost authority of accurate information because for instance, you can't even spell 'skins' correctly.

Now that may be the most senseless thing I have seen on this board.

[hockey878]

Okay. I think taking advice from someone who spells their name with extra n's and z's makes much more sense. You must be very proud to be credible and the foremost authority of accurate information because for instance, you can't even spell 'skins' correctly.

sweet joke farva

[fvantagio]

This is exactly my point. Athletic pocket passers are the majority of success in this league.

You are aware that is what RG3 is right?

[Jay305]

You are aware that is what RG3 is right?

BLINDED BLINDED BY ANDREW LUCK

[GoColts8818]

I'm with you 100% Luck seriously has an NFL caliber Oline in college put RGIII behind that line and his production would be insane

Remains to be seen. It's very dangrous to assume QBs can just run another system they haven't run before just because it has better talent. Frankly if the system Stanford uses was best suited for RGIII I am sure Baylor would have ran it. I am not saying RGIII can't I am just saying it's an unknown either way. What we do know is the system Standford uses is much more like what the Colts run than Baylor's and Andrew Luck has been extremely good in that system. Again I am not saying RGIII wont be a good QB at the NFL level, I think he will be I just think Luck is going to be better and based on the system he runs and the way he plays (very much like Manning) he's a better fit for Indianaplis and when you have two guys close on talent that kind of thing is a tie breaker.

[fvantagio]

RGIII has 369 pass attempts this year.

Luck has 373 pass atempts this year.

The notion that RGIII is a passing quarterback while Luck plays in a run first system may not be true. Luck has attempted more passes than RGIII, so either Luck is not in a run first system and has an effective running game to go along with the passing game, or RGIII is not as much of a passing quarterback as some may think.

Luck also has 800 less passing yards, 2% less completion percentage, 1 less TD and 3 more picks he was also sacked 14 less times. RG3 also has 500 more rushing yards and 7 more rush TDs

But your right, how silly of me. That 4 completion difference is the stat the tells it all.

[Gonzo]

I like RG3 because it makes sense to draft a raw(er) qb we can develop since they probably won't play much the first few years.

Lucks chief selling point right now in what looks like the strongest QB draft in years is his NFL readiness. If he's not going to play that advantage over the other QBs is gone and guys like RGIII, Barkley, Jones make alot of sense. Especially if we can stockpile additional picks while getting our QB of the future.

We'll see what happens when these guys go under the microscope, Luck may nail it down as a can't miss prospect, RG3 may surpass Luck etc. They haven't even played their last bowl game yet.

[UKCOLT17]

He also beat Oklahoma and Texas. Did people forget that?

Luck beat a neutered USC, and lost used to "No Defense" Oregon. RGIII beat superior competition in a conference that produces more NFL playera than the PAC10/12, and did so with better stats.

VY was a running QB. Griffin is a throwing QB.

As for the spread, Brees, Ryan, Bradford, Newton, and Tebow all played some version of the spread. Luck plays in a run first offense, not a pro style offense. Pass/Run ratio is currently 65/35 in the NFL. I would rather have a guy who can produce without relying on 200 rushing yards per game from his backs.

RGIII had a better season than Luck with less talent around him, in front if him, or defending. He also has more room to grow, whereas Luck may very well have peaked last year.

Trading down to this pick would make more sense as we can fill other needs with the extra picks.

how can you say rgiii had less talent he may have a worse oline but he had better receivers kendall wright to start with hes one of the best in college so i disagree with that

[fvantagio]

how can you say rgiii had less talent he may have a worse oline but he had better receivers kendall wright to start with hes one of the best in college so i disagree with that

Hah. "Kendall Wright to start with." Now can you name another without googling it? He had Kendall Wright but that is probably the only receiver on Baylor that will be drafted. With no RBs, Oline, or the entire defense being draft material. Luck has 2 first round linemen, a top TE and a great defense. To argue that RG3 played on a equally talented team is laughable. It would be like if we said RG3 is more pro ready then Luck.

[GoColts8818]

He also beat Oklahoma and Texas. Did people forget that?

Luck beat a neutered USC, and lost used to "No Defense" Oregon. RGIII beat superior competition in a conference that produces more NFL playera than the PAC10/12, and did so with better stats.

VY was a running QB. Griffin is a throwing QB.

As for the spread, Brees, Ryan, Bradford, Newton, and Tebow all played some version of the spread. Luck plays in a run first offense, not a pro style offense. Pass/Run ratio is currently 65/35 in the NFL. I would rather have a guy who can produce without relying on 200 rushing yards per game from his backs.

RGIII had a better season than Luck with less talent around him, in front if him, or defending. He also has more room to grow, whereas Luck may very well have peaked last year.

Trading down to this pick would make more sense as we can fill other needs with the extra picks.

how can you say rgiii had less talent he may have a worse oline but he had better receivers kendall wright to start with hes one of the best in college so i disagree with that

No people don't forget that and he didn't beat theam by himself, he might have been the biggest reason they won but the TEAM won those games just like Luck's team won and lost those games. To draft or not draft a guy because of who his team beat or didn't beat is a silly reason. If you want to go there let's not kid our selves that was a down Texas team he beat and USC had a better season than Texas and frankly was a better team. That same USC team beat Oregon and kept them out of the National Title game and by the way Luck's Stanford team beat USC. Yes it's true Stanford lost to Oregon but that had more to do with Stanford defense than it did Luck.

If you want to play the win and loss game Baylor also lost to Kansas State and Texas A&M this year, funny the people who want to argue who Baylor beat left those losses out but yet try to attack Luck for losing to a very good Oregon team like it was a bad loss...

Again that's a silly arguement to me because I don't think you either draft a guy or don't draft a guy because of who they beat or didn't beat in college. That has to do with teams not players by themselves.

Check out this blog by ESPN where he talks about how Luck is like Peyton Manning, namely down to calling his own plays. http://espn.go.com/blog/stanford-football/post/_/id/4568/state-your-heisman-case-andrew-luck

"Stanford has been styling him as "The Quarterback Redefined," which is accurate. We haven't seen anyone like him probably in the history of college football. Sometimes you hear the comparison to Peyton Manning -- that's the NFL Peyton Manning, not the Tennessee Peyton Manning. Luck is a far more evolved and cerebral quarterback at this point in his career than Manning was."

"He has the highest football IQ of any Heisman contender. And, oh yeah, he calls his own plays from a list of more than 250! Most teams go into a game with 75-100 plays. This guy's mental rolodex can sort out more than 250 plays in the time the ball is set to the time the ball is snapped. No stopping to look at the sidelines after the defense has been set. No "I'm confused, coach" timeouts."

Here is a draft report on Luck where they talk about Luck running a pro-style offense and again how he calls his own plays like a QB we have all grown to know and love. Just because it's a run heavy offense DOES NOT mean it's not a pro-style offense.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2746

"With good size, arm strength, decision-making, leadership abilities, and just about everything else you could want in a quarterback, Luck could have been the top pick in last year's draft. Instead, he opted to return to school and take another run at a title. Luck runs a pro-style offense with the Stanford Cardinals. He checks the defense quite often and is given a ton of control to call his own plays at the line if need be. He stays in the pocket and trusts his eyes to find the open man. Sometimes he can be a little too confident when making his throws, but all in all, Luck tends to make the right decisions with the ball."

If that's not enough Ty Detmer is quoted here saying Luck does really well in a pro-style offense. http://www.chron.com/sports/article/State-of-Texas-poised-to-end-Heisman-drought-2391972.php

"They're different types of players," Detmer said. "Andrew is really done well in a pro-style offense. He's smart with the football, manages the game for his team and can make plays with his feet, too.

Once and for all...the offense Stanford runs is a pro-style offense. A quick check of google can find more of these types or quotes or stories, it's one of the big plus's brought about Luck that the offense is a pro-style offense. No it's not the Colts offense but Luck plays QB much the same way Manning does with the play calling at the line like Manning does. Again based on all that there Luck sounds like he is more ready for our system than Griffen is, when trying to pick between two really good players it makes more sense to use something like that as a tie breaker than who someone has or hasn't beaten in college.

Also trading down to get Griffen or Barkley or whoever only makes sense if Luck refuses to sit and you know one of the other others is willing too. Who knows the Colts might find out Luck is willing to sit and Griffen or Barkley, or whoever isn't willing too, then what? If they are all willing to sit you take the one who is the best fit for your system and who most people judging this draft is saying is going to be better. It does NOT mean Griffen isn't a good player and wont be a good player at the NFL level. It just means Luck is expected to be better and IMO is a better fit for what the Colts do.

People are trying to find reasons not to draft Luck and looking for reasons to draft Griffen. If you do that of course you are going to come up with a reason to draft the guy you are looking for reasons to draft over the guy you are looking for reasons not to draft. For example people praise Griffen for putting up more passing yards than Luck and then attack Luck for playing in a system that is better at running the ball than Griffen's. Anyone ever start to think that the reason Luck might have less passing yards is because he has a better running game and they don't have to throw the ball down the field as much as Baylor does? Also if I recall Luck lost his best WR to the NFL this year and most people seem to think Luck's best pass catchers are tightends. Normally tightends don't get as many big plays as WRs. That could play a role as well. That's why it's really dangrous to look at parts of the puzzle. You have to look at everything and that includes stats, who you play with, they type of system you run, what type of system you run and the type of players you have. When you look at all those things MOST people who study this for a living seem to think Luck is going to be the better pro and is going to be our pick. I respect others rights to their opinions and by all means please have them it's what talking about this fun but I agree with the experts that Luck is the guy.

[Jay305]

Remains to be seen. It's very dangrous to assume QBs can just run another system they haven't run before just because it has better talent. Frankly if the system Stanford uses was best suited for RGIII I am sure Baylor would have ran it. I am not saying RGIII can't I am just saying it's an unknown either way. What we do know is the system Standford uses is much more like what the Colts run than Baylor's and Andrew Luck has been extremely good in that system. Again I am not saying RGIII wont be a good QB at the NFL level, I think he will be I just think Luck is going to be better and based on the system he runs and the way he plays (very much like Manning) he's a better fit for Indianaplis and when you have two guys close on talent that kind of thing is a tie breaker.

Harbaugh tried recruiting RG3 to Standford as part of a two qb system with Luck. RG3 wanted to be THE QB so he went to Baylor. I would agree with everything you said if it werent for us having Peyton. RG3 would benefit more from being behind Peyton than Luck since Luck is more "Pro Ready" but theres no denying RG3 has the higher upside

[GoColts8818]

Harbaugh tried recruiting RG3 to Standford as part of a two qb system with Luck. RG3 wanted to be THE QB so he went to Baylor. I would agree with everything you said if it werent for us having Peyton. RG3 would benefit more from being behind Peyton than Luck since Luck is more "Pro Ready" but theres no denying RG3 has the higher upside

1. This isn't about what is best for Luck or RG3 or even Manning. It's about what is the best for the Colts.

2. Most pro scouts disagree with about RG3 having more upside that's why Luck is being projected as the top pick. If RG3 had more upside he would be above Luck in the draft.

[Jay305]

1. This isn't about what is best for Luck or RG3 or even Manning. It's about what is the best for the Colts.

2. Most pro scouts disagree with about RG3 having more upside that's why Luck is being projected as the top pick. If RG3 had more upside he would be above Luck in the draft.

A few GMs have said they would take RG3 over Luck right now well see what happens once the combine starts. I do respect your opinion though since your waaay more informative than others on this topic

[GoColts8818]

A few GMs have said they would take RG3 over Luck right now well see what happens once the combine starts. I do respect your opinion though since your waaay more informative than others on this topic

That's true I've seen that reported too. A few GMs said they would take Leaf over Manning too though. It boils down to what the Colts are going to do and like was reported a few weeks ago Irsay wants Luck and Manning here next week. He owns the team he's going to get what he wants but there is still time to change his mind and who knows if Luck just refuses to sit that might force the Colts hand to go in another direction.

[Jay305]

That's true I've seen that reported too. A few GMs said they would take Leaf over Manning too though. It boils down to what the Colts are going to do and like was reported a few weeks ago Irsay wants Luck and Manning here next week. He owns the team he's going to get what he wants but there is still time to change his mind and who knows if Luck just refuses to sit that might force the Colts hand to go in another direction.

True or Irsay sees RG3 light it up at the combine

[coltsblue1844]

True or Irsay sees RG3 light it up at the combine

RGIII will NOT be the #1 pick, NO MATTER WHO gets the #1 pick...if a team ends up with the #1 that doesnt want Luck, they will simply trade the pick to someone who offers them enough to trade out of the pick, simple as that...also, if Barkley declares for the draft, i still think that he would be the second QB taken, and rightly so.