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The Khaled Holmes Thread (Merge)

texascolt

By texascolt
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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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Shipley was in there to start.

Nope, Holmes started. I don't know when Shipley got in, but he took at least one snap.

I haven't rewatched the game yet, but Holmes got soundly beat on the first snap of the game. He was to block the DT to his right, and couldn't get in front of him. That's why the play went for a loss.

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sundance75 Walk On

sundance75

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there would be some comments about Holmes starting at center.

 

Did he?  I'll wait for Ben Gundy's analysis.  It's too painful to re-watch the game.

Holmes started.  Shipley was NOT in there to start and have you not noticed that the line has progressively got worse since Shipley was benched.  Shipley was in on one play the jumbo package when they got the TD. 

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pgt_rob Active Roster

pgt_rob

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Nope, Holmes started. I don't know when Shipley got in, but he took at least one snap.

I haven't rewatched the game yet, but Holmes got soundly beat on the first snap of the game. He was to block the DT to his right, and couldn't get in front of him. That's why the play went for a loss.

 

I saw Shipley in there at the beginning. I don't think it was the first 3 run plays, but I could be wrong. He was definitely in there though. I know you'll rewatch the game. Let us know what snap he went in at.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

Posted
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Nope, Holmes started. I don't know when Shipley got in, but he took at least one snap.

I haven't rewatched the game yet, but Holmes got soundly beat on the first snap of the game. He was to block the DT to his right, and couldn't get in front of him. That's why the play went for a loss.

 

I think it's being a little harsh to say that Holmes got soundly beat on the first run play.  The player he was to block was a man and a half away from Holmes, there was no way he was going to get over there unless that Dlineman decided to stand still for a couple of seconds.  The blocking should have been changed pre snap by whoever was making the line calls.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I think it's being a little harsh to say that Holmes got soundly beat on the first run play. The player he was to block was a man and a half away from Holmes, there was no way he was going to get over there unless that Dlineman decided to stand still for a couple of seconds. The blocking should have been changed pre snap by whoever was making the line calls.

The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.
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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.

 

Usually it is the center, but it doesn't have to be.  The center is used because he is equal distance from both tackles.  I will double check on the distance, but I thought yesterday while I was watching the play Holmes had to move pretty far to make that block.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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Usually it is the center, but it doesn't have to be. The center is used because he is equal distance from both tackles. I will double check on the distance, but I thought yesterday while I was watching the play Holmes had to move pretty far to make that block.

He did have a ways to go. It wasn't an easy play to make, but he didn't make it either way.
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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.

 

Just a fyi, 1959Colts had a good breakdown of that first run in the thread about the Oline problems.

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krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

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Nope, Holmes started. I don't know when Shipley got in, but he took at least one snap.

I haven't rewatched the game yet, but Holmes got soundly beat on the first snap of the game. He was to block the DT to his right, and couldn't get in front of ham. That's why the play went for a loss.

 

There's another guy in another thread that makes a good point regarding that play, which makes a good case for Holmes regarding that play.

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coltsfire12 Walk On

coltsfire12

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The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.

 

 

The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.

 

 

The center generally makes the line calls, no? It's a reach block. The guy wasn't a man and a half away, otherwise the RG would have been responsible for holding him up while Holmes got off the ball. Not a good scheme, obviously, but Holmes was supposed to block the guy who blew up the play. Maybe soundly beat is strong, but he was the man, and didn't get there. I don't know how else to say it.

It is an impossible block for the center to reach block the tackle. Either the TE, OT, OG or FB/TE would block the D tackle. In football 101 you know that. Ask any coach, then please correct your account of what you think happened on the first play of the game.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

Posted
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It is an impossible block for the center to reach block the tackle. Either the TE, OT, OG or FB/TE would block the D tackle. In football 101 you know that. Ask any coach, then please correct your account of what you think happened on the first play of the game.

It's laughable how wrong you are, telling me how wrong I am, and so rudely...
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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

Posted
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It is an impossible block for the center to reach block the tackle. Either the TE, OT, OG or FB/TE would block the D tackle. In football 101 you know that. Ask any coach, then please correct your account of what you think happened on the first play of the game.

 

Seriously?     This is your first post here?

 

No one knows you and yet you choose to go on the offensive right out of the gate?

 

And you have no idea who attacked.     But you chose to do it anyway.     Wow.

 

Pretty impressive.......      but for all the wrong reasons.....

 

What a way to start here....

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Coffeedrinker Practice Squad

Coffeedrinker

Posted
Posted

It is an impossible block for the center to reach block the tackle. Either the TE, OT, OG or FB/TE would block the D tackle. In football 101 you know that. Ask any coach, then please correct your account of what you think happened on the first play of the game.

 

 

It's laughable how wrong you are, telling me how wrong I am, and so rudely...

Fortunately, most of us are past Football 101.

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coltsfire12 Walk On

coltsfire12

Posted
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It's laughable how wrong you are, telling me how wrong I am, and so rudely...

 

 

It's laughable how wrong you are, telling me how wrong I am, and so rudely...

Did not mean to be rude, but if you call an off tackle run and plan to block the unblocked penetrating tackle with the center then please explain to me how the center has a chance to make that block. The DT is already upfield as the center is moving down the line. Hope you dont find this rude but it makes some kind of sense.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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Posted

Did not mean to be rude, but if you call an off tackle run and plan to block the unblocked penetrating tackle with the center then please explain to me how the center has a chance to make that block. The DT is already upfield as the center is moving down the line. Hope you dont find this rude but it makes some kind of sense.

 

Fair enough. I believe the defender was lined up in the gap. As I said before, it's not an easy block to make, but it appeared that it was Holmes block. I can't look at the play right now, but I will. And another poster has a breakdown of the play that I haven't had a chance to look at yet.

 

But it's not true that it was impossible for the center to reach the DT, and the center is often called on to block the DT on off guard or off tackle run plays. Most of the time, the RG will help at the snap while the center gets off the ball. It may be that Louis messed it up, but your previous comment suggested that a center will never be used to block a DT, and that's just not accurate.

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coltsfire12 Walk On

coltsfire12

Posted
Posted

Seriously?     This is your first post here?

 

No one knows you and yet you choose to go on the offensive right out of the gate?

 

And you have no idea who attacked.     But you chose to do it anyway.     Wow.

 

Pretty impressive.......      but for all the wrong reasons.....

 

What a way to start here....

Guys I did not plan any attack, I thought I was pointing out that a coach would not design a play for the center to block the DT on a off tackle run.  It will never work.  Superman said " It wasn't an easy play to make, but he didn't make it either way." That sounds like what? Sounds like you are pinning a 5 yard loss to start the game on the C missing his block. If you think that is the case then we have to agree to disagree.

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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Guys I did not plan any attack, I thought I was pointing out that a coach would not design a play for the center to block the DT on a off tackle run.  It will never work.  Superman said " It wasn't an easy play to make, but he didn't make it either way." That sounds like what? Sounds like you are pinning a 5 yard loss to start the game on the C missing his block. If you think that is the case then we have to agree to disagree.

 

When you write this in your very first post on a website....  "Ask any coach, then please correct your account of what you think happened on the first play of the game."     That's going to be read by others who don't know you as an attack.   Especially against one of the smartest, sharpest and brightest posters here....

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coltsfire12 Walk On

coltsfire12

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Fair enough. I believe the defender was lined up in the gap. As I said before, it's not an easy block to make, but it appeared that it was Holmes block. I can't look at the play right now, but I will. And another poster has a breakdown of the play that I haven't had a chance to look at yet.

 

But it's not true that it was impossible for the center to reach the DT, and the center is often called on to block the DT on off guard or off tackle run plays. Most of the time, the RG will help at the snap while the center gets off the ball. It may be that Louis messed it up, but your previous comment suggested that a center will never be used to block a DT, and that's just not accurate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxGSreWQUhYtWVJWcVFVSkVta3c/view?usp=sharing

 

#98 is lined up at DT over the OT. The C makes contact with the DT when he is 3 yards in the backfield making a bee line to the RB. There is no way this play was designed with the C blocking the DT. The C reaches the DT but it is impossible to block him at that angle and I dont think it would ever be drawn up that way. Didnt mean for you to understand that the C never blocks a DT. 

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

Posted
Posted

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxGSreWQUhYtWVJWcVFVSkVta3c/view?usp=sharing

 

#98 is lined up at DT over the OT. The C makes contact with the DT when he is 3 yards in the backfield making a bee line to the RB. There is no way this play was designed with the C blocking the DT. The C reaches the DT but it is impossible to block him at that angle and I dont think it would ever be drawn up that way. Didnt mean for you to understand that the C never blocks a DT. 

 

Coincidentally, I'm rewatching right now.

 

The DT was further down the line than I realized. It's very bad execution, and a doomed play. It looks like Louis should have have been helping right at the snap, which would have given Holmes time to get off the ball. For Holmes to have made that block would have been pretty spectacular, even more so than I realized earlier. I have to take most of the blame away from Holmes and put it on Louis, I think.

 

Bigger problem is that we shouldn't have run the ball to the right on that play. The Cowboys were loaded on that side of the field, and we had more favorable numbers on the left side.

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

Posted
Posted

Coincidentally, I'm rewatching right now.

 

The DT was further down the line than I realized. It's very bad execution, and a doomed play. It looks like Louis should have have been helping right at the snap, which would have given Holmes time to get off the ball. For Holmes to have made that block would have been pretty spectacular, even more so than I realized earlier. I have to take most of the blame away from Holmes and put it on Louis, I think.

 

Bigger problem is that we shouldn't have run the ball to the right on that play. The Cowboys were loaded on that side of the field, and we had more favorable numbers on the left side.

 

First, it makes me feel like the original call from Pep is a poor one.    Why run to the side where all the new guys on our line are on the very first play?    Let them get their feet wet -- at least, a little....

 

Second,  why didn't Andrew simply audible to the other side?   It's not like he's not allowed or doesn't know how.....

 

Very curious.....

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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Posted

First, it makes me feel like the original call from Pep is a poor one.    Why run to the side where all the new guys on our line are on the very first play?    Let them get their feet wet -- at least, a little....

 

Second,  why didn't Andrew simply audible to the other side?   It's not like he's not allowed or doesn't know how.....

 

Very curious.....

 

This is what I am curious about.

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jimmy g Active Roster

jimmy g

Posted
Posted

This is what I am curious about.

me too. I'm nothing but a fan, certainly no expert. But with Holmes making his first start, Louis being a backup, and still injured Nixon making a start as backup RT, didn't make sense to me to try running behind them to start the game
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TheJACKCOLT Practice Squad

TheJACKCOLT

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxGSreWQUhYtWVJWcVFVSkVta3c/view?usp=sharing

 

#98 is lined up at DT over the OT. The C makes contact with the DT when he is 3 yards in the backfield making a bee line to the RB. There is no way this play was designed with the C blocking the DT. The C reaches the DT but it is impossible to block him at that angle and I dont think it would ever be drawn up that way. Didnt mean for you to understand that the C never blocks a DT. 

 

You didn't make it sound like you were saying the C never blocks the DT, it was clear that you were talking about this particular play,  You were right, that would not be Holmes assignment .Unfortunately on this board a lot of times you will get opposition,  just for the sake of opposition,  even though you were correct, and it was obvious that you had went back and taken a good look at the play.  Be prepared for things you didn't say, to be argued into your post. This will happen no matter how clear you make your post, no matter how right you are, that is just the way it is on this forum.

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