manziel or RG3

[CR91]

whos more likely to start for another franchise

[OldManP]

As long as it's not the Colts, I hope both start for another franchise.

[B~Town]

It's easy to say Manziel will have a better chance at starting somewhere RG3 is done even if he lands another Gig no coach or owner is going to baby him like Snyder did .

[CR91]

It's easy to say Manziel will have a better chance at starting somewhere RG3 is done even if he lands another Gig no coach or owner is going to baby him like Snyder did .

 

rg3 should go to arizona. I know they signed palmer for three years, but tearing his acl at 34 is gonna be problematic. arians is known for doing a great job with QBs

[BullsColtsFan1]

That's a tough one.  RGIII has at least somewhat proved himself in his first year or at least showed positive signs.  I understand he has stunk it up since then.  Manziel has to much baggage in my opinion.  He hasn't had a chance to prove he can play QB in the NFL either.  I think if he gets put on a team with a good coach that can keep him in line(on and off the field) that he could be successful. I don't think either one would be pro bowlers, just solid QB's.

[B~Town]

rg3 should go to arizona. I know they signed palmer for three years, but tearing his acl at 34 is gonna be problematic. arians is known for doing a great job with QBs

The only team I see RG3 landing on is the Jets . I just don't see Arians taking QB known for skipping film review not learning the play book and that needs to be coddled .

[BlueCollarColts]

RGIII to me, mainly because Manziel just seems to still act like a college kid off the field. 

[BOTT]

In nfl or arena league?

[dgambill]

I think its RGIII because I think Cleveland holds onto Manziel for a couple more years. Even though Hoyer is winning games I don't think they are sold long term on the guy. RGIII is done in Washington...he likely will be waived or not resigned after next year and I could see a team taking a chance on him. He has some tools...skill...but his confidence is extremely low and he doesn't have the OL to protect him back there. Even though running the spread option would get him killed its his best chance for success. Honestly he would be a good fit in Philly. Both Manziel and RGIII could be moved...imagine if STL gets RGIII AFTER trading for all those picks....or Dallas could still end up with Manziel even after passing on him.

[oldunclemark]

Cant believe how ESPN's NO.1 news story is that RG3 has finally been benched

.

Same week SF plays Seattle....and New England plays Green Bay.

But Robert's always been ESPN's boy

[chad72]

I think its RGIII because I think Cleveland holds onto Manziel for a couple more years. Even though Hoyer is winning games I don't think they are sold long term on the guy. RGIII is done in Washington...he likely will be waived or not resigned after next year and I could see a team taking a chance on him. He has some tools...skill...but his confidence is extremely low and he doesn't have the OL to protect him back there. Even though running the spread option would get him killed its his best chance for success. Honestly he would be a good fit in Philly. Both Manziel and RGIII could be moved...imagine if STL gets RGIII AFTER trading for all those picks....or Dallas could still end up with Manziel even after passing on him.

 

I can actually see a coach like Fisher going after RG3, however I doubt the Redskins let him go mainly because of the price they paid. At least 1 more year of futility is in the cards for the Redskins trying to figure things out. 

 

RG3, to me, is a coach killer. Manziel, at least reads defenses better having played better competition in the SEC and looking to throw first on the move than anything else. Manziel has football shake-n-bake and as long as he avoids hits by not getting greedy with the run (several examples of Vick, RG3 to learn from), he can learn the position better than RG3, IMO. Maturity will come for Manziel. He would have been better off going in round 2 to a team like the Texans, to be honest. He would have given them more than Fitzpatrick, I believe.

[Synthetic]

Manziel will be out on the street with Scott Stapp within a year or two. If he wants some real friends he should spend that money on some.

[OldManP]

In nfl or arena league?

Good one!

[B~Town]

What good is a one read QB that can't run or make it a year without being injured ? As a QB if you can't scan the field find the open receiver at hit him what is your worth to a NFL team ? Why does anyone think RG3 will ever start for another NFL is beyond me .

[pacolts56]

As long as it's not the Colts, I hope both start for another franchise.

I second the motion....Manziel to Houston and RGIII to Tennessee.

[Qwiz]

Griffin will start somewhere. Johnny isn't going to be leaving Cleveland I don't think, unless Hoyer suddenly becomes an All-Pro.

[pacolts56]

What good is a one read QB that can't run or make it a year without being injured ? As a QB if you can't scan the field find the open receiver at hit him what is your worth to a NFL team ? Why does anyone think RG3 will ever start for another NFL is beyond me .

Yep....he was never required to at Texas Tech. It didn't take a draft guru to know that once RGIII took enough knee shots he'd be all but finished. The only real surprise was that it was a down field hit from a 370lb. Haloti Ngata that tipped over the first domino.

I don't think we'll see a much different outcome for Manziel either, once he gets creamed.

[dgambill]

Manziel will be out on the street with Scott Stapp within a year or two. If he wants some real friends he should spend that money on some.

Wow....this post just reeks of something....what I can't really say lol. I hope in real life you smile at least once a day...somehow I doubt it though. Must be tough living in the greatest country in the world with the ability to do anything you put your mind to...and yet post after post of needless negativity. How depressing.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Griffin will start somewhere. Johnny isn't going to be leaving Cleveland I don't think, unless Hoyer suddenly becomes an All-Pro.

 

Hopefully the Texans ..  

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Yep....he was never required to at Texas Tech. It didn't take a draft guru to know that once RGIII took enough knee shots he'd be all but finished. The only real surprise was that it was a down field hit from a 370lb. Haloti Ngata that tipped over the first domino.

I don't think we'll see a much different outcome for Manziel either, once he gets creamed.

Baylor

[Qwiz]

Hopefully the Texans ..

That'd be awesome. We would win every game against the Colts since Griffin always beats Andrew

[Qwiz]

Wow....this post just reeks of something....what I can't really say lol. I hope in real life you smile at least once a day...somehow I doubt it though. Must be tough living in the greatest country in the world with the ability to do anything you put your mind to...and yet post after post of needless negativity. How depressing.

I don't think the entity that we have come to know as 'Bogie' is capable of posting anything remotely positive about anything lol.

[dw49]

That'd be awesome. We would win every game against the Colts since Griffin always beats Andrew

 

 

Where you been ? Good to see your still backing RG3. Me thinks the RG Andrew comparisons are over for a while anyway. 

[Qwiz]

Where you been ? Good to see your still backing RG3. Me thinks the RG Andrew comparisons are over for a while anyway.

Haven't been able to post much lately, been a longggg week. But yeah, I'm supporting the guy until he's out of the game, whether it's by his own choosing or not lol. I don't think he's anywhere close to being done in the NFL.

[dw49]

Haven't been able to post much lately, been a longggg week. But yeah, I'm supporting the guy until he's out of the game, whether it's by his own choosing or not lol. I don't think he's anywhere close to being done in the NFL.

 

 

Interesting to see what his 2015 helmet will look like.

[dgambill]

Haven't been able to post much lately, been a longggg week. But yeah, I'm supporting the guy until he's out of the game, whether it's by his own choosing or not lol. I don't think he's anywhere close to being done in the NFL.

I think RGIII would do well to sit behind someone for a year in a new system. Learn from a veteren qb how to be a professional....ie watching tape, learning about defenses, understanding the whole offense. I think given some good coaching and the right situation he could easily come back and play well. I think Mark Sanchez is a good example. Give him a qb friendly offense and some good coaching and a team around him ready to succeed he could flash something special. He has a great arm and throws a nice accurate ball down the field...a team like Philly (although they seem set at qb) or Arizona who likes to push the ball down the field would fit him better imo. I think Arians could do wonders for the kid. You put him in an offense that can give him some time and some playmakers and I think he can bounce back to be a solid qb. I don't think he has necessarily elite abiltiy but he can definately make plays in the right situation. Unfortunately, I think you had a front office that forced him down two coaches throat and trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. He certainly has plenty of fault in his regression and situation but I think a change of scenery would be good for him. If Sanchez can bounce back with some success then I don't see why RGIII couldn't either. When you come from a train wreck like Washington or the Jets its not an easy thing to find success in a franchise that has lacked the culture and leadership for so long.

[Qwiz]

I think RGIII would do well to sit behind someone for a year in a new system. Learn from a veteren qb how to be a professional....ie watching tape, learning about defenses, understanding the whole offense. I think given some good coaching and the right situation he could easily come back and play well. I think Mark Sanchez is a good example. Give him a qb friendly offense and some good coaching and a team around him ready to succeed he could flash something special. He has a great arm and throws a nice accurate ball down the field...a team like Philly (although they seem set at qb) or Arizona who likes to push the ball down the field would fit him better imo. I think Arians could do wonders for the kid. You put him in an offense that can give him some time and some playmakers and I think he can bounce back to be a solid qb. I don't think he has necessarily elite abiltiy but he can definately make plays in the right situation. Unfortunately, I think you had a front office that forced him down two coaches throat and trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. He certainly has plenty of fault in his regression and situation but I think a change of scenery would be good for him. If Sanchez can bounce back with some success then I don't see why RGIII couldn't either. When you come from a train wreck like Washington or the Jets its not an easy thing to find success in a franchise that has lacked the culture and leadership for so long.

Exactly. If Sanchez can bounce back, anybody can. I could definitely see Arizona as a fit, as long as their offensive line holds up. Arians if I'm not mistaken runs a stretch offense that relies on getting the ball down the field, and while Griff definitely has the arm for it, his offensive line's bad play in Washington has been a part of his woes. He would do well to sit for a little while, learning an offense, and then getting out there with an offense that has a few good weapons, including at the runningback position so maybe he can start doing what made him so fantastic in his rookie season.

[dgambill]

Exactly. If Sanchez can bounce back, anybody can. I could definitely see Arizona as a fit, as long as their offensive line holds up. Arians if I'm not mistaken runs a stretch offense that relies on getting the ball down the field, and while Griff definitely has the arm for it, his offensive line's bad play in Washington has been a part of his woes. He would do well to sit for a little while, learning an offense, and then getting out there with an offense that has a few good weapons, including at the runningback position so maybe he can start doing what made him so fantastic in his rookie season.

I could see him learn behind Carson for a year or so. I agree...I wouldn't be so quick to right him off. I don't think he is ever going to be a mvp candidate but I also don't think he is Vince Young either so I think we could stand to give him some time before we write him off completely. I think he is very much a product of forcing these young qbs to start too soon....just because they have been great in college in those spread offenses doesn't mean they can translate that right over to pro style offenses in the nfl. Players like Luck and Ryan who ran pro style offenses in college have a much easier time....not easy but at least more familiar and more to grow off of. I think the NFL needs to sit these kids for a year before tossing them to the wolves.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

That'd be awesome. We would win every game against the Colts since Griffin always beats Andrew

 

 

 

  That would be awesome dream big real big beating the Colts every game My Colts have owned the AFC South for most of its existance regardless of who you had at QB  The 2014 AFC South Champions   =Luck & the Colts are back on top , & honestly  Jay Gruden does'nt share your feelings concerning  RG3 or he  would be starting tomorrow at LOS .  The Hype over RG3 is over . His play on the field speaks for it self .. Only a few diehards are still drinking that kool-aid ..  Enjoy..

 

 

But it is true 3 seasons in a row , RG3 has beaten Luck to off season 3 years running  & Colt McCoy will have a chance to beat our Colts defense . RG3 has had lots of extra time to work of his golf game .

[pgt_rob]

Like saying Bologne Sandwich or Spam Sandwich?

[Qwiz]

That would be awesome dream big real big beating the Colts every game My Colts have owned the AFC South for most of its existance regardless of who you had at QB The 2014 AFC South Champions =Luck & the Colts are back on top , & honestly Jay Gruden does'nt share your feelings concerning RG3 or he would be starting tomorrow at LOS . The Hype over RG3 is over . His play on the field speaks for it self .. Only a few diehards are still drinking that kool-aid .. Enjoy..

But it is true 3 seasons in a row , RG3 has beaten Luck to off season 3 years running & Colt McCoy will have a chance to beat our Colts defense . RG3 has had lots of extra time to work of his golf game .

Yeah, having Peyton Manning on your team helps win divisions, ask the Broncos. You can enjoy that all you want, but the Texans are aspiring for Super Bowls, not just division titles. I know that you like beating on your chest, but it is clear that Jim Irsay's Colts are still some time away from competing for SBs themselves, you might want to put the blue koolaid down mate. Red tastes much better.

As far as Robert Griffin is concerned, I guess all the draft pundits and scouts were wrong when he was debated as either the number one or number two pick. The guy was phenomenal his rookie year and will continue to be phenomenal if given the right chance on a good team. His story in the NFL isn't over yet.

[James Harden]

Manziel is more likely to start for another franchise. He should going to either Dallas or Houston 

[Qwiz]

I could see him learn behind Carson for a year or so. I agree...I wouldn't be so quick to right him off. I don't think he is ever going to be a mvp candidate but I also don't think he is Vince Young either so I think we could stand to give him some time before we write him off completely. I think he is very much a product of forcing these young qbs to start too soon....just because they have been great in college in those spread offenses doesn't mean they can translate that right over to pro style offenses in the nfl. Players like Luck and Ryan who ran pro style offenses in college have a much easier time....not easy but at least more familiar and more to grow off of. I think the NFL needs to sit these kids for a year before tossing them to the wolves.

Yeah, but those days of sitting are over. Even guys like Bortles and Bridgewater who were supposed to ride the bench ended up starting, and maybe even Johnny Manziel could see the field this year. Coaches want to see if their investment is going to work out or not, and sooner rather than later I suppose.

[Bobbycovert]

Yeah, having Peyton Manning on your team helps win divisions, ask the Broncos. You can enjoy that all you want, but the Texans are aspiring for Super Bowls, not just division titles. I know that you like beating on your chest, but it is clear that Jim Irsay's Colts are still some time away from competing for SBs themselves, you might want to put the blue koolaid down mate. Red tastes much better.

As far as Robert Griffin is concerned, I guess all the draft pundits and scouts were wrong when he was debated as either the number one or number two pick. The guy was phenomenal his rookie year and will continue to be phenomenal if given the right chance on a good team. His story in the NFL isn't over yet.

 

The good parts are...

[Qwiz]

The good parts are...

I'm not of that opinion, but of course you are more than welcome to yours.

[Surge89]

I can actually see a coach like Fisher going after RG3, however I doubt the Redskins let him go mainly because of the price they paid. At least 1 more year of futility is in the cards for the Redskins trying to figure things out. 

 

RG3, to me, is a coach killer. Manziel, at least reads defenses better having played better competition in the SEC and looking to throw first on the move than anything else. Manziel has football shake-n-bake and as long as he avoids hits by not getting greedy with the run (several examples of Vick, RG3 to learn from), he can learn the position better than RG3, IMO. Maturity will come for Manziel. He would have been better off going in round 2 to a team like the Texans, to be honest. He would have given them more than Fitzpatrick, I believe.

 

Whoa... wait a minute we are talking about Johnny Manziel right out of A&M?  Imo of course but I watched him play a whole lot (I live in Texas) and he has no where near the physical tools of RG3 and absolutely 0 football sense.  His whole mantra was throw to a big receiver high before I get hit and hope he makes a play.  Literally...

[Bobbycovert]

I'm not of that opinion, but of course you are more than welcome to yours.

 

Its slightly more than opinion.  

 

For RG3 to turn things around he only has to :

• Find a team without an entrenched franchise QB that will be a good situation for him to sit and learn (Rams, Jets, Bucs, Bills) or a team with an older vet who he can replace when the time comes.  The options here are fairly limited.
• Keep in mind that Griffin will also now be competing with the incoming rookies. These guys, like Robert, have also put up big numbers in some spread/read-option college offense.  Like Robert, they will need to learn to read an NFL defense and play in the pocket.  Unlike Robert, these guys have less baggage, healthy legs, are 3-4 years younger and have yet to flame out at the professional level.
• Lets say RG3 does find the perfect situation.  He would still have to correct his mechanics, learn to read a defense, develop some pocket presence, figure out whatever confidence issues he seems to be having, learn how to lead, become coachable, improve his work ethic, etc.  All while under intense scrutiny and with a very small window of opportunity (those rookie QBs mentioned above will keep coming every year).

So yeah, RG3 might find his way back, but the odds are pretty heavily against it.  Not an opinion; I'm just laying out the most likely scenario.

[dw49]

Yeah, having Peyton Manning on your team helps win divisions, ask the Broncos. You can enjoy that all you want, but the Texans are aspiring for Super Bowls, not just division titles. I know that you like beating on your chest, but it is clear that Jim Irsay's Colts are still some time away from competing for SBs themselves, you might want to put the blue koolaid down mate. Red tastes much better.

As far as Robert Griffin is concerned, I guess all the draft pundits and scouts were wrong when he was debated as either the number one or number two pick. The guy was phenomenal his rookie year and will continue to be phenomenal if given the right chance on a good team. His story in the NFL isn't over yet.

 

 

 

Scouts and pundits are wrong all the time. Ryan Leaf , Jeff George , Vince Young , David Carr , Joey Harrington , Jack Thompson , Tim Couch , David Klinger , Todd Blackledge , Akili Smith , Andre Ware , Rick Mirer , Heath Shuler , Art Schister and Jamarcus Russell are a bunch of them. I've only used players that I think were drafted by pick 4. As for the team ...not great but don't for a minute say he doesn't have weapons. Garcon , Jackson and Roberts at WR is top 2-3 in the league, Reed is an explosive TE and Morris can carry the load at RB . He has a great LT but not a great O line. However many of the sacks are attributed to bad pocket presence and his inability to get rid of the ball to a hot receiver. 

 

That said I agree that he has talent if you want to talk arm strength and running ability. However what they now feel he lacks is footwork , pocket presence , ability to read a defense , work ethic and leadership. It's fine to say he has arm and leg talent but he's far from being a good QB as we speak. Also the first season of success he had was mostly due to an offense that has now been solved by NFL defenses and also proved very detrimental to his health. I guess you would be proved correct if the Skins were able to trade him to another team and get a good part of those 3 1's and a 2 back. I'm guessing he would bring maybe a 3rd round pick . 

[Qwiz]

Its slightly more than opinion.

For RG3 to turn things around he only has to :

• Find a team without an entrenched franchise QB that will be a good situation for him to sit and learn (Rams, Jets, Bucs, Bills) or a team with an older vet who he can replace when the time comes. The options here are fairly limited.
• Keep in mind that Griffin will also now be competing with the incoming rookies. These guys, like Robert, have also put up big numbers in some spread/read-option college offense. Like Robert, they will need to learn to read an NFL defense and play in the pocket. Unlike Robert, these guys have less baggage, healthy legs, are 3-4 years younger and have yet to flame out at the professional level.
• Lets say RG3 does find the perfect situation. He would still have to correct his mechanics, learn to read a defense, develop some pocket presence, figure out whatever confidence issues he seems to be having, learn how to lead, become coachable, improve his work ethic, etc. All while under intense scrutiny and with a very small window of opportunity (those rookie QBs mentioned above will keep coming every year).

So yeah, RG3 might find his way back, but the odds are pretty heavily against it. Not an opinion; I'm just laying out the most likely scenario.

In a league that has guys like Sanchez, Geno, Fitzpatrick and as recently as last year Vince Young getting second and third chances, Robert Griffin getting another chance isn't all that farfetched. Obviously the talent is there. He has an arm and he can make plays. Every QB has problems deciphering defenses every now and then. What Griff has on rookies is experience and a superb draft grade when he was coming out. Couple that with a great rookie season from only two years ago and it is definitely something a quarterback needy franchise can work with. Guys like Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton or even Eli in the past aren't thought of as great leaders, but they were quiet guys who led by example. Griff is a bit flashy yes but you don't need a ra ra Drew Brees out there in order to lead your team.

I think the likelihood of Griffin starting for another team eventually and finding at least some success is higher than him just busting out of the league completely. I just don't think his best days are behind him.

[Qwiz]

Scouts and pundits are wrong all the time. Ryan Leaf , Jeff George , Vince Young , David Carr , Joey Harrington , Jack Thompson , Tim Couch , David Klinger , Todd Blackledge , Akili Smith , Andre Ware , Rick Mirer , Heath Shuler , Art Schister and Jamarcus Russell are a bunch of them. I've only used players that I think were drafted by pick 4. As for the team ...not great but don't for a minute say he doesn't have weapons. Garcon , Jackson and Roberts at WR is top 2-3 in the league, Reed is an explosive TE and Morris can carry the load at RB . He has a great LT but not a great O line. However many of the sacks are attributed to bad pocket presence and his inability to get rid of the ball to a hot receiver.

That said I agree that he has talent if you want to talk arm strength and running ability. However what they now feel he lacks is footwork , pocket presence , ability to read a defense , work ethic and leadership. It's fine to say he has arm and leg talent but he's far from being a good QB as we speak. Also the first season of success he had was mostly due to an offense that has now been solved by NFL defenses and also proved very detrimental to his health. I guess you would be proved correct if the Skins were able to trade him to another team and get a good part of those 3 1's and a 2 back. I'm guessing he would bring maybe a 3rd round pick .

Sure scouts can be wrong, it'd be insane if they never were. But teams picking in the top five are doing so for a reason. With the exception of Young and Russell, one a headcase and the other lazy as a koala bear, those others didn't land in very good situations. Hell even Sam Bradford, when healthy and playing with a good offense and an even better defense, didn't exactly blow teams out of the water. Cam did for some time but now seems to be getting more and more average every game. I think someone mentioned this in another thread, but there haven't been many homerun quarterbacks in the Draft the past few years. Even guys who started off hot like Matt Ryan are struggling.

As far as Griffin's footwork and all that, it can be taught. Guys like Rivers, McNair and Favre have shown that you don't need great mechanics to win football games, it is about discipline and drive. I haven't suggested Griffin doesn't have weapons on offense, but Alfred Morris isn't the same back he was two years ago and you said it, Griffin's line hasn't exactly been great, and that goes back to his first and second year. I'm optimistic for the guy is all I'm saying. I'm not here to make excuses.