All things Jonotthan Harrison (Merge)

[CR91]

I dont know if this guy has pictures or something, but how he keeps starting is beyond me. the line is no better with him in it. since you guys like stats so much heres some

 

 

CENTER GAMES ATT YARDS YPA TD YPG AVG. RUN D RANK

A.Q. Shipley 4 122 472 3.87 2 118.00 19.5

Jonotthan Harrison 6 149 571 3.83 4 95.17 17.5

 

CENTER GAMES TEAM SACKS TEAM SACKS PER GAME

A.Q. Shipley 4 5 1.25

Jonotthan Harrison 6 10 1.67

 

CENTER GAMES PFF PASS BLOCK GRADE PFF RUN BLOCK GRADE PFF PENALTY GRADE

A.Q. Shipley 4 2.2 3.1 -0.6

Jonotthan Harrison 6 -7.5 -1.1 -1.9

 

[12isthenew18]

A.Q. Helps the entire line. Win Win Win everywhere

[TKnight24]

....... But I'm a fan for wanting Shipley to start

Now, let's see what you get called ColtsRule91

*Grabs Chair & Waits while sipping apple juice*

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Coaching staff just doesn't like Shipley. Only way harrison doesn't start is if he's injured. Unfortunate.

[twfish]

Ive been wishing A.Q would start since he got pulled for no reason. It seems like we leave in players who dont produce (Nicks) and pull playerd her produce (Shipley)

[corgi]

....... But I'm a fan for wanting Shipley to start

Now, let's see what you get called ColtsRule91

*Grabs Chair & Waits while sipping apple juice*

Someone thinks you are a Pats fan?

 

Coaching staff just doesn't like Shipley. Only way harrison doesn't start is if he's injured. Unfortunate.

If they didn't like him he would be cut, and he wouldn't have seen the field yesterday. I don't agree with him being on the bench, but the coaching staff has some bizarre reason to keep him on the bench.

[Indygal1218]

....... But I'm a fan for wanting Shipley to start

Now, let's see what you get called ColtsRule91

*Grabs Chair & Waits while sipping apple juice*

I swear to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I want to scream every time I see a flying elvis in one of your posts, man. It just isn't right. I get more and more convinced that there's a pod person writing your posts this season.

[MTC]

It's never going to happen unless Harrison gets injured.

[TKnight24]

Someone thinks you are a Pats fan?

If they didn't like him he would be cut, and he wouldn't have seen the field yesterday. I don't agree with him being on the bench, but the coaching staff has some bizarre reason to keep him on the bench.

Yep

My post

START AQ SHIPLEY!!!

IT WASN'T BROKE SO WHY WAS IT "FIXED"???!!???

The response I got

Ha must be a Patriots fan

[lennymoore24]

The only thing I can think of is that Shipley has kind of hit his ceiling.  He is decent as a pass blocker but doesn't move people much on running plays.  Harrison potentially could be a much better run blocker.   So I think they are hoping Harrison, Thornton, and Mewhort can grow together and become a run blocking force.

 

On another note, what could be interesting is if Holmes gets some time and RG now.

[TKnight24]

I swear to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I want to scream every time I see a flying elvis in one of your posts, man. It just isn't right. I get more and more convinced that there's a pod person writing your posts this season.

If we would stop living in their shadow..... I wouldn't have to post so much. I give them the credit they deserve

Most colts fans have a vendetta against them or whatever they wanna call it, I don't. They're the better team, nothing wrong with admitting it and giving them credit especially given how well they're playing right now. Can't wait for their matchup against GB. Gonna be an offensive explosion!!!!!

[corgi]

Yep

My post

The response I got

 

Some crazy flawed logic there. Start AQ = Pats.

[TKnight24]

The only thing I can think of is that Shipley has kind of hit his ceiling. He is decent as a pass blocker but doesn't move people much on running plays. Harrison potentially could be a much better run blocker. So I think they are hoping Harrison, Thornton, and Mewhort can grow together and become a run blocking force.

On another note, what could be interesting is if Holmes gets some time and RG now.

He was the top rated starting C by PFF I believe. The line was much better

I agree Shipley isn't a world beater but every time he has played C, the line looked like it knew what was going on. The Satele days were the same when Shipley came in. It just seemed to work

Isn't the coaches job to put out the best players who give us the best chance to win? Grigson finds the people and Irsay signs the checks

Coaches gotta do their job now

[TKnight24]

Some crazy flawed logic there. Start AQ = Pats.

indeed. It was in that "What can we do to fix the oline" thread that was started yesterday after the poor showing the line had

[ColtStronger]

I said before AQ lost the job that why would you fix something if it isn't broken, in regards to starting Holmes over Shipley.  Then somebody made the comment there is a bigger upside to starting Harrison in the long term.  I do agree when Harrison is 4 years pro, he will be a beast, but that's not the case right now.  I do think he needs experience, but it shouldn't come with the price of a faultering O Line!  We have way to many inexperienced players on the interior part, and that's a recipe for disaster.  Im not saying Shipley is great but we actually could somewhat run the ball when he was in and Andrew wasn't always running for his life.  This Harrison experiment has failed just like it was when they thought Holmes was the guy of the future.  I do believe one of those two guys should be crowned, but in no way are either of them ready to handle the pressure right now.  That is why we brought in AQ wasn't it.  Holmes was a no go, and they wanted someone who could step in and do a satisfactory job.  

 

Is the coaching staff more interested in developing Harrison, even if it means we aren't as good?  The way I see it, the Colts have this year and next for a great opportunity at a SB, and neither of those Centers will be playing at a high level until after next season.  Not saying they wont be in contention the following year, because they will, however they will more than likely lose quite a few pieces to the puzzle after next season.  I don't think playing an inexperienced player now will outweigh the benefits of it in the future, compared to what they could have if the coaching staff was committed to having the best possible O Line today!

 

I do admit, when Harrison first started I was on board and pleased with the result, but now as the season progresses I see his liabilities.  Yes, there is more upside with the younger guy, but that is coming at a costly expense given what we could have.  A measely 1 yard extra per carry for our RB's and another second in the pocket could be the difference.  I know it sounds minor, but I think the effect would be substantial.

[corgi]

The only thing I can think of is that Shipley has kind of hit his ceiling.  He is decent as a pass blocker but doesn't move people much on running plays.  Harrison potentially could be a much better run blocker.   So I think they are hoping Harrison, Thornton, and Mewhort can grow together and become a run blocking force.

 

On another note, what could be interesting is if Holmes gets some time and RG now.

I personally want Thornton benched. He has looked awful most of the year. I think having Nixon, Shipley, or Reitz start over him would help out the line a lot.

[Valpo2004]

The only thing I can think of is that Shipley has kind of hit his ceiling.  He is decent as a pass blocker but doesn't move people much on running plays.  Harrison potentially could be a much better run blocker.   So I think they are hoping Harrison, Thornton, and Mewhort can grow together and become a run blocking force.

 

On another note, what could be interesting is if Holmes gets some time and RG now.

 

The whole center situation is just weird as all heck.  The pre-season starter Holmes no where to be seen, Shipley starts for 4 games an inexplicably gets benched while Harrison starts.  

[TKnight24]

The offensive line should be

Castonzo-Mewhort-Shipley-Reitz-Nixon

Nixon should play until Mr. Cherilus gets his act together! He's been very disappointing this year

[Dark Superman]

As long as Harrison is still in there Luck will continue to get killed..

Put Shipley in there.. Or Holmes. Anyone..

[21isSuperman]

Why they replaced Shipley in the first place is beyond me.  Maybe the coaching staff is going for a feel-good story?  Undrafted guy comes in and becomes the starting center for the best offense in the league, overtaking a spot held by a veteran player and now protecting the league's best young QB....that's what happens when you [insert Pagano-isms here]

 

Acceptable Pagano-isms:

-Work your tail/butt/behind off

-Just keep grinding

-Are a warrior/tough as nails

-Have a lot of heart

-Play 60 minutes

[Gavin]

At some point ya just have to let these young guys develop, Shipley was not real good either

[B-B]

Acceptable Pagano-isms:

-Work your tail/butt/behind off

-Just keep grinding

-Are a warrior/tough as nails

-Have a lot of heart

-Play 60 minutes

 

Who needs a Quarterback?

This is a running team

Rolling bowling ball of butcher knives 

 

[B-B]

At some point ya just have to let these young guys develop, Shipley was not real good either

 

I mean, Shipley was rated as one of the top rated center when he was started at the beginning of the year, per pff

[Superman]

If we would stop living in their shadow..... I wouldn't have to post so much. I give them the credit they deserve

Most colts fans have a vendetta against them or whatever they wanna call it, I don't. They're the better team, nothing wrong with admitting it and giving them credit especially given how well they're playing right now. Can't wait for their matchup against GB. Gonna be an offensive explosion!!!!!

 

This post is ironic, seeing as how you're the one with the inferiority complex. We're not living in the Pats shadow. They just have a better team. 

[Gavin]

I mean, Shipley was rated as one of the top rated center when he was started at the beginning of the year, per pff

Didn't see the ratings, Ill go back and watch the games he started however

[Superman]

I mean, Shipley was rated as one of the top rated center when he was started at the beginning of the year, per pff

 

PFF isn't absolute. Several people have openly disagreed with PFF on Shipley, in particular. I don't think he was anything special, either, but it is definitely true that the line was playing better when he was starting. For the most part, anyways. The best overall game from our line was probably the Bengals game. 

[Dark Superman]

Can we please pull the plug on this Trent Richardson project?

[lennymoore24]

I will have to go back over the ALL 22 film and see if I can pull anything from watching Shipley and Harrison playing to see if something sticks out.   I do think it is wrong to say that coaches or GMs have their pride and want to stick to certain guys.  Their jobs, week to week, depend on winning games.  They don't have time to make bad decisions.  And we have to keep in mind that there is usually much more to the story then what we see.  For example, calling for Moncrief instead of Nicks.  Maybe Moncrief doesn't know all the blocking assignments yet?  Or patterns?    Also, Shipley has appeared to play better in games her started.  But are the opponents D-Line about the same to make comparisons?

[The Fish]

Why they replaced Shipley in the first place is beyond me.  Maybe the coaching staff is going for a feel-good story?  Undrafted guy comes in and becomes the starting center for the best offense in the league, overtaking a spot held by a veteran player and now protecting the league's best young QB....that's what happens when you [insert Pagano-isms here]

 

Acceptable Pagano-isms:

-Work your tail/butt/behind off

-Just keep grinding

-Are a warrior/tough as nails

-Have a lot of heart

-Play 60 minutes

 

 

You ruined 85% of what Pagano is going to say, for me!

[21isSuperman]

Who needs a Quarterback?

This is a running team

Rolling bowling ball of butcher knives 

 

This one has really backfired on them.  Richardson has been the opposite of almost every word in that phrase.

 

You ruined 85% of what Pagano is going to say, for me!

[Track Guy]

The offensive line feels like it takes two steps forward and then a step and a half back. Again, the O-line looks like it's going to be our #1 need next off-season. For the short term, where there isn't much we can do about personnel, I'd like to see how a line of Castonzo - Mewhort - Shipley - Nixon - Cherlius would do. I know you don't normally mix things up this late in the season on the O-line as continuity matters but the lineup we have right now just isn't working. The Patriots really took off when they got the right guys set on their O-line, maybe we can do something similar.

[throwing BBZ]

   At center, Shipley quickly showed he was a quick thinker and IMO gave good help to his guards.
Surprisingly, he also did a nice job keeping guys out of Andrews face.
 But he will never move anyone in front of him and in the NFL you have to be able to run between the guards. So the Harrison Experiment.
  We have below average guard play so any center you put out there will be challenged.
 3 below average inexperienced interior young guys, is a recipe for _____!  Ya think?
 It looked like they had no O-Line game plan the first half. Of course they are slow and get no leverage so what should we expect!
 

[ColtsBlueFL]

PFF isn't absolute. Several people have openly disagreed with PFF on Shipley, in particular. I don't think he was anything special, either, but it is definitely true that the line was playing better when he was starting. For the most part, anyways. The best overall game from our line was probably the Bengals game. 

 

Supe, it's all well and good to say several people disagree with PFF. They very well could even be right.  OTOH, Who are 'they', what is their grading scale, as well as their expertise and credentials?  When comparing contrasting opinions, it then become imperative to compare the  methodology and experience in determining who may be more credible in the 'ratings game'.  I just want to know where the other player grading sites are so I can investigate their history, methodology, and their tenure at doing such analysis.

 

I'm not an A.Q. fan, but not a Holmes or Harrison supporter either.  Only flashbacks of Satele keep me from ripping my locks out by the handfuls.

[Superman]

Supe, it's all well and good to say several people disagree with PFF. They very well could even be right.  OTOH, Who are 'they', what is their grading scale, as well as their expertise and credentials?  When comparing contrasting opinions, it then become imperative to compare the  methodology and experience in determining who may be more credible in the 'ratings game'.  I just want to know where the other player grading sites are so I can investigate their history, methodology, and their tenure at doing such analysis.

 

I'm not an A.Q. fan, but not a Holmes or Harrison supporter either.  Only flashbacks of Satele keep me from ripping my locks out by the handfuls.

 

PFF is the only one I know of, and I think they provide a very valuable service. But just because they're the only ones publishing grades doesn't mean that they are the authority on player performance. "Because PFF says so" isn't legitimate analysis. 

 

And I don't say any of this to knock PFF. I like what they do. But I've disagreed with their grades at times, gone back to rewatch, and came away shaking my head, wondering what they're looking at. In general, I think their grades balance out, but you have a handful of guys watching and grading games, and there's going to be some bias and flawed analysis.

 

That's true of an NFL coaching staff, also. None of us have any problem saying "I don't know what the coaches are doing, they should bench X and start Y." But dare to disagree with PFF, and now you have to provide substantiated alternative analysis, along with references, a resume, and two forms of ID. 

 

As for specific analysis of the Colts offensive line, you may or may not be familiar with Ben Gundy. I think his detailed write-ups and analysis are much more meaningful than PFF's grades. Doesn't mean I always agree with him, but it's way more intensive than just +/- grades that get aggregated over the course of a season.

 

Also, Shipley and Harrison at their worst are still far better than Satele was last season. Ironically, Satele is playing well for the Dolphins, but our line play is much improved, even with the inconsistencies we've been experiencing lately.

[Colts_Fan12]

At some point ya just have to let these young guys develop, Shipley was not real good either

I agree everyone thinks if we put Shipley back in we're going to the Super Bowl or something

[ricker182]

What was the oline in the second half?

Let's use that lineup from here on out.

Luck is going to get hurt.

[GwinnettColt]

In my opinion, his snaps are too high and he doesn't have the snap count down.  

[dudeski]

What was the oline in the second half?

Let's use that lineup from here on out.

Luck is going to get hurt.

same as the 1st for a good part of it

[Superman]

In my opinion, his snaps are too high and he doesn't have the snap count down.  

 

I think the high snaps have gone away, for the most part. But the mental lapses that cause these penalties are still a big issue. 

[Dark Superman]

I don't think Harrison is strong enough to play center.. The guy gets pushed around a lot.