Really good Coby Fleener article

[RockThatBlue]

This is a great read.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/11/20/colts-coby-fleener-admits-to-wondering-am-i-good-enough/70023634/

[Moopsiepuffs]

They certainly didn't drop the ball on this one.

[DougDew]

Please.  Posting something good about Coby Fleener isn't allowed on this site. 

 

He played like a threat last Sunday and the only TE anybody wanted to talk about was the doofus on the other team.

[21isSuperman]

 

"He blocks as well as Jimmy Graham and Antonio Gates, he's one of those guys, and those guys are great players," says Colts backup QB Matt Hasselbeck

Um....saying someone blocks as well as Jimmy Graham is not a compliment.

 

 

Those inconsistencies have leaked into this, his third NFL season, but they've been masked by significant progress.

Really?  Progress?  Let's look at his weekly yardage and TD totals:

Week 1: 21/0 (on a day where Luck threw for 370 yards and 2 TDs...the TDs, I can understand, but 21/370 yards)

Week 2: 13/0 (Luck throws for 172 yards, 3 TDs)

Week 3: 49/1 (Luck: 370, 4)

Week 4: 26/1 (Luck: 393, 4)

Week 5: 30/0 (Luck: 312, 1)

Week 6: 11/1 (Luck: 370, 3)

Week 7: 64/0 (Luck: 344, 2)

Week 8: 4/0 (Luck: 400, 3)

Week 9: 77/1 (Luck: 354, 4)

Week 10: BYE

Week 11: 144/0 (Luck: 303, 2)

 

Average: 43.9/0.4 per game while Luck is throwing for an average of 338.8/2.8.  But in terms of statistical analysis, means take anomalies into consideration while medians don't.  So Fleener's median stat line is 28 yards while Luck's is 362.  Alternatively, you can remove his New England performance since that seems to be the anomaly in this data set and you get an average of 32.8 yards and 0.44 TDs per week (or a median of 26 yards). 

 

He's had an average or better game 4 times this year, in my opinion (weeks 3, 7, 9, 11).  That is not significant progress from a guy whose measurables are 6'6", 250 lbs, 4.52 40, 37 inch vert, playing with a QB he's known since college, playing in an explosive offense, and playing under the offensive coordinator he had in college.

[House]

Um....saying someone blocks as well as Jimmy Graham is not a compliment.

Really? Progress? Let's look at his weekly yardage and TD totals:

Week 1: 21/0 (on a day where Luck threw for 370 yards and 2 TDs...the TDs, I can understand, but 21/370 yards)

Week 2: 13/0 (Luck throws for 172 yards, 3 TDs)

Week 3: 49/1 (Luck: 370, 4)

Week 4: 26/1 (Luck: 393, 4)

Week 5: 30/0 (Luck: 312, 1)

Week 6: 11/1 (Luck: 370, 3)

Week 7: 64/0 (Luck: 344, 2)

Week 8: 4/0 (Luck: 400, 3)

Week 9: 77/1 (Luck: 354, 4)

Week 10: BYE

Week 11: 144/0 (Luck: 303, 2)

Average: 43.9/0.4 per game while Luck is throwing for an average of 338.8/2.8. But in terms of statistical analysis, means take anomalies into consideration while medians don't. So Fleener's median stat line is 28 yards while Luck's is 362. Alternatively, you can remove his New England performance since that seems to be the anomaly in this data set and you get an average of 32.8 yards and 0.44 TDs per week (or a median of 26 yards).

He's had an average or better game 4 times this year, in my opinion (weeks 3, 7, 9, 11). That is not significant progress from a guy whose measurables are 6'6", 250 lbs, 4.52 40, 37 inch vert, playing with a QB he's known since college, playing in an explosive offense, and playing under the offensive coordinator he had in college.

No form of statistics allows for removing data based on "anomalies" lol.

[Malakai432]

Um....saying someone blocks as well as Jimmy Graham is not a compliment.

 

Really?  Progress?  Let's look at his weekly yardage and TD totals:

Week 1: 21/0 (on a day where Luck threw for 370 yards and 2 TDs...the TDs, I can understand, but 21/370 yards)

Week 2: 13/0 (Luck throws for 172 yards, 3 TDs)

Week 3: 49/1 (Luck: 370, 4)

Week 4: 26/1 (Luck: 393, 4)

Week 5: 30/0 (Luck: 312, 1)

Week 6: 11/1 (Luck: 370, 3)

Week 7: 64/0 (Luck: 344, 2)

Week 8: 4/0 (Luck: 400, 3)

Week 9: 77/1 (Luck: 354, 4)

Week 10: BYE

Week 11: 144/0 (Luck: 303, 2)

 

 

Well at least I see some weekly progress!!!!!! 

 

From week 6 to week 11, minus the bye.  Week 8 was pretty ugly however but other than that I do see an upward trend. 

[21isSuperman]

No form of statistics allows for removing data based on "anomalies" lol.

I know.  I just did that extra analysis to see what his stats have been like if we remove the one game where he outperformed every other game all year.  That part where I presented his stats with the New England game removed was just for my own curiosity.  If you want to avoid the anomalies messing up your data, median is the way to go...from what I understand from my introductory statistics classes

[21isSuperman]

Well at least I see some weekly progress!!!!!! 

 

From week 6 to week 11, minus the bye.  Week 8 was pretty ugly however but other than that I do see an upward trend. 

Week 7's stats (64 yards) should be his weekly average in terms of reception yards, in my opinion.  He has everything going for him right now

[Surge89]

Um....saying someone blocks as well as Jimmy Graham is not a compliment.

Really? Progress? Let's look at his weekly yardage and TD totals:

Week 1: 21/0 (on a day where Luck threw for 370 yards and 2 TDs...the TDs, I can understand, but 21/370 yards)

Week 2: 13/0 (Luck throws for 172 yards, 3 TDs)

Week 3: 49/1 (Luck: 370, 4)

Week 4: 26/1 (Luck: 393, 4)

Week 5: 30/0 (Luck: 312, 1)

Week 6: 11/1 (Luck: 370, 3)

Week 7: 64/0 (Luck: 344, 2)

Week 8: 4/0 (Luck: 400, 3)

Week 9: 77/1 (Luck: 354, 4)

Week 10: BYE

Week 11: 144/0 (Luck: 303, 2)

Average: 43.9/0.4 per game while Luck is throwing for an average of 338.8/2.8. But in terms of statistical analysis, means take anomalies into consideration while medians don't. So Fleener's median stat line is 28 yards while Luck's is 362. Alternatively, you can remove his New England performance since that seems to be the anomaly in this data set and you get an average of 32.8 yards and 0.44 TDs per week (or a median of 26 yards).

He's had an average or better game 4 times this year, in my opinion (weeks 3, 7, 9, 11). That is not significant progress from a guy whose measurables are 6'6", 250 lbs, 4.52 40, 37 inch vert, playing with a QB he's known since college, playing in an explosive offense, and playing under the offensive coordinator he had in college.

I'd normally agree, but I do see significant progress as a player on the field. He may not be catching all of the plays but he is a huge reason why. His blocking has improved and his physicality has gone up. When he catches balls he actually attacks now and uses his body.

All of this coming from someone who was very underwhelmed in his rookie season and saw him as a huge disappointment.

[21isSuperman]

I'd normally agree, but I do see significant progress as a player on the field. He may not be catching all of the plays but he is a huge reason why. His blocking has improved and his physicality has gone up. When he catches balls he actually attacks now and uses his body.

All of this coming from someone who was very underwhelmed in his rookie season and saw him as a huge disappointment.

I understand.  When he's been on his game, he's been impressive.  The last few weeks, he's done really well.  But his season as a whole has been underwhelming to me.  I've seen big improvements in his route running and awareness (that toe-drag catch last week was sweet!), but I'm still waiting for him to take that jump and join the upper class of TEs in the league

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Fleener is doing fine, in my opinion.  He hasn't been putting up great yardage every week, but he isn't playing poorly, either.

 

Our offense is pretty balanced as far as spreading the ball around in the pass game.  Luck/Hasselbeck have thrown receptions to 12 different receivers and Coby is our 3rd leading WR at this point. 

 

TY 961/3408   28.2%

Wayne 595/3408 17.5%

Fleener 439/3408 12.9 %

Allen 374/3408 11%

Bradshaw 300/3408 8.8%

Nicks 227/3408 6.7%

Moncrief 218/3408 6.4%

Richardson 203/3408 5.9%

Doyle 58/3408 1.7%

Whalen 23/3408 0.7%

Herron 9/3408 0.3%

Castonzo 1/3408 0.03%

 

This puts Fleener on pace for 702 yards, which is very solid for a TE.

TY and Reggie have been Luck's go-to WRs and we've been passing for more yards than anyone in the league right now.  We have shown some ability to run the ball at times, as well.  This offense has the ability to be a 'pick-your-poison' type offense and last week we showed that -- take away TY and Reggie and we can count on Fleener to step up.  I am sure other teams in the league that are going to be game-planning against us saw that, so if they have to put more emphasis on Fleener, it should allow for TY and Reggie and our other weapons to have big days.

[Surge89]

I understand. When he's been on his game, he's been impressive. The last few weeks, he's done really well. But his season as a whole has been underwhelming to me. I've seen big improvements in his route running and awareness (that toe-drag catch last week was sweet!), but I'm still waiting for him to take that jump and join the upper class of TEs in the league

I kind of understand what your saying but that is a very high expectation... most "elite" TE's are the number 1 or 2 option on their team and Fleener's at best is number 3. Remember before Graham most "elite" TEs were elite because they had big play ability and could block very well. Fleener needed work in the blocking before he even came in the league, so his improvement there shouldn't be underwhelming at all :-)

Interesting stats though to see laid out like that. Do you think Fleener's lack of yardage is attributed to the varying weapons around him or do you think it is because of his lack of ability to consistently get open?

[chad72]

I kind of understand what your saying but that is a very high expectation... most "elite" TE's are the number 1 or 2 option on their team and Fleener's at best is number 3. Remember before Graham most "elite" TEs were elite because they had big play ability and could block very well. Fleener needed work in the blocking before he even came in the league, so his improvement there shouldn't be underwhelming at all :-)

Interesting stats though to see laid out like that. Do you think Fleener's lack of yardage is attributed to the varying weapons around him or do you think it is because of his lack of ability to consistently get open?

 

To the bolded, Fleener felt like at best No.4 behind TY, Wayne, Bradshaw/Allen, IMO for Luck's throws when all those were healthy.

 

Yep, I was right, yardage wise, Fleener was No.3 and reception wise, he was barely No.4, ahead of Allen by 3, mainly because Allen got banged up in the Patriots game. See here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/statistics?team=IND

 

This year, I think it is more a factor of having Nicks, Allen/Bradshaw healthy slightly longer than last year, and Moncrief thrown in too. There are way more mouths to feed and once Allen & Bradshaw went down within minutes of each other, we saw how he answered when his number was called. That is all he can do at this point. I hope his number is called more to show us if he can be consistent moving forward. Like Reggie Wayne said "he told Coby that there is no turning back from now" and I hope Coby takes it to heart.

[21isSuperman]

I kind of understand what your saying but that is a very high expectation... most "elite" TE's are the number 1 or 2 option on their team and Fleener's at best is number 3. Remember before Graham most "elite" TEs were elite because they had big play ability and could block very well. Fleener needed work in the blocking before he even came in the league, so his improvement there shouldn't be underwhelming at all :-)

Interesting stats though to see laid out like that. Do you think Fleener's lack of yardage is attributed to the varying weapons around him or do you think it is because of his lack of ability to consistently get open?

I think a bit of both, and also the scheme (we really want to get the ball to RBs...which isn't necessarily a bad thing as Bradshaw has quite a few reception TDs).  He ended up doing well last year after Allen went out, and some of his lack of stats has got to be due to having so many guys on offense.  Of Luck's 18 red zone TDs this year, 3 have gone to Fleener (and Fleener has 4 total receptions in the red zone).  That's a solid amount.  But from watching the games this year, he hasn't been impressive overall.  Between the 20 yard lines, he hasn't really stood out.  My expectations of him are high because of how much he has going for him (his QB, the offense, his OC).  Unfortunately, I can't give a very detailed answer because I only watch the games once on Sunday, whereas we have a few members on here who watch them again during the week and do their analysis.  What do you think it is?

[southwest1]

Best part of the whole article is when Fleener during the draft process at the Combine wondered "why is the Colts strength & conditioning coach interviewing me & bombarding me with questions?" 

 

That line struck me as comical because GM Grigs could pass easily for a weight room meathead. I mean meathead in the nicest way possible like NFL Network scout Mike Mayock says it BTW.

 

"To be honest, I have no idea," he says. "I haven't even figured out what I want to do after football. I guess you could say I'm prolonging the real world as long as I can."

 

I smiled when I read that because my mother always told me "you've got your whole life to be an adult why push it?" Translation: Don't be in such a huge hurry to grow up, embrace your inner child as long as you can. 

[crazycolt1]

Just like the bigger part of fans crying and whining about this player or that player didn't do this or didn't do that. A lot of fans were saying Fleener was a bust and thought the draft pick was waist of the pick. It normally takes a receiver at least 3 years to grasp the NFL and it's speed. The step from collage into the pros is huge. There have been only a hand full of receivers who made an impact their first couple of years. Fleener has been Lucks last receiver looked at most of the time. We all know Luck looks at Wayne and Hilton the most of all. In the red zone Luck looks at the RBs the most. I think that all changes now that we have lost out #1 RB and Allen is injured. I don't understand after any lose some fans think someone needs to be fired, cut or traded. Finger pointing after a loss has become a new art form in these threads.

[Dark Superman]

Hopefully last week was only the beginning of things to come..

[ProblChld32]

Thanks for sharing i really enjoyed that article.... i like Fleener and feel like he can be really dominant in this league. i really hope he builds off of this past game. 

[Surge89]

I think a bit of both, and also the scheme (we really want to get the ball to RBs...which isn't necessarily a bad thing as Bradshaw has quite a few reception TDs). He ended up doing well last year after Allen went out, and some of his lack of stats has got to be due to having so many guys on offense. Of Luck's 18 red zone TDs this year, 3 have gone to Fleener (and Fleener has 4 total receptions in the red zone). That's a solid amount. But from watching the games this year, he hasn't been impressive overall. Between the 20 yard lines, he hasn't really stood out. My expectations of him are high because of how much he has going for him (his QB, the offense, his OC). Unfortunately, I can't give a very detailed answer because I only watch the games once on Sunday, whereas we have a few members on here who watch them again during the week and do their analysis. What do you think it is?

[Superman]

Fleener was a monster against the Pats. Linebackers, corners and safeties all tried, and no one could do anything to stop him. He threw Browner -- the physical and aggressive DB that was supposed to stop our TEs -- directly off of him at the line, then beat him like a redheaded step child the next play on a backside fade. Yeah, Browner isn't good, but he's supposed to be the Pats physical stopper, and Fleener did what you're supposed to do against a guy who can't cover you.

 

And, Fleener has been blocking much better all year long. His run blocking wasn't good against the Pats, but overall, he's been better there this year. 

 

It's hard for me to understand what reason anyone would have to be critical of his overall performance this year. He's been productive in fewer chances this year, has improved as a blocker, and when we needed him to step up, he did. 

[Jason_]

Fleener was a monster against the Pats. Linebackers, corners and safeties all tried, and no one could do anything to stop him. He threw Browner -- the physical and aggressive DB that was supposed to stop our TEs -- directly off of him at the line, then beat him like a redheaded step child the next play on a backside fade. Yeah, Browner isn't good, but he's supposed to be the Pats physical stopper, and Fleener did what you're supposed to do against a guy who can't cover you.

 

And, Fleener has been blocking much better all year long. His run blocking wasn't good against the Pats, but overall, he's been better there this year. 

 

It's hard for me to understand what reason anyone would have to be critical of his overall performance this year. He's been productive in fewer chances this year, has improved as a blocker, and when we needed him to step up, he did. 

 

Because his name isn't Cordy Glenn or Courtney Upshaw

[Superman]

Because his name isn't Cordy Glenn or Courtney Upshaw

 

Pretty much.

[NewColtsFan]

Because his name isn't Cordy Glenn or Courtney Upshaw

 

And yet it's my understanding that Upshaw has mostly been a disappointment right up until this year...

 

This year...   he's been more of what Baltimore has hoped for....

[21isSuperman]

And yet it's my understanding that Upshaw has mostly been a disappointment right up until this year...

 

This year...   he's been more of what Baltimore has hoped for....

I wanted Upshaw in the draft.  He was quite a disappointment at first (showing up to camp overweight), but he seems to now have things working for him.  As far as I understand, he's been used as a run-stuffer, which was expected for him coming out of Alabama.  Right now, I would rather have Fleener than Upshaw because I think Upshaw's upside is limited due to his poor athleticism.  Glenn would have been great, but hindsight is 20/20.  I just think the claim the author made that his inconsistencies are masked isn't accurate

[Clem-Dog]

Coby looks a lot bigger than in previous seasons.

As far as statistics go he has a chance to prove that last week's production was not a fluke.

My complaint at the beginning of the season was toughness, not anymore. Sure he still has a way to go, but overall he is far from a disappointment.

[RockThatBlue]

Fleener was a monster against the Pats. Linebackers, corners and safeties all tried, and no one could do anything to stop him. He threw Browner -- the physical and aggressive DB that was supposed to stop our TEs -- directly off of him at the line, then beat him like a redheaded step child the next play on a backside fade. Yeah, Browner isn't good, but he's supposed to be the Pats physical stopper, and Fleener did what you're supposed to do against a guy who can't cover you.

And, Fleener has been blocking much better all year long. His run blocking wasn't good against the Pats, but overall, he's been better there this year.

It's hard for me to understand what reason anyone would have to be critical of his overall performance this year. He's been productive in fewer chances this year, has improved as a blocker, and when we needed him to step up, he did.

[Surge89]

Fleener was a monster against the Pats. Linebackers, corners and safeties all tried, and no one could do anything to stop him. He threw Browner -- the physical and aggressive DB that was supposed to stop our TEs -- directly off of him at the line, then beat him like a redheaded step child the next play on a backside fade. Yeah, Browner isn't good, but he's supposed to be the Pats physical stopper, and Fleener did what you're supposed to do against a guy who can't cover you.

And, Fleener has been blocking much better all year long. His run blocking wasn't good against the Pats, but overall, he's been better there this year.

It's hard for me to understand what reason anyone would have to be critical of his overall performance this year. He's been productive in fewer chances this year, has improved as a blocker, and when we needed him to step up, he did.

Agreed :-) but I think we usually do so status quo lol

[dudeski]

Best part of the whole article is when Fleener during the draft process at the Combine wondered "why is the Colts strength & conditioning coach interviewing me & bombarding me with questions?"

That line struck me as comical because GM Grigs could pass easily for a weight room meathead. I mean meathead in the nicest way possible like NFL Network scout Mike Mayock says it BTW.

"To be honest, I have no idea," he says. "I haven't even figured out what I want to do after football. I guess you could say I'm prolonging the real world as long as I can."

I smiled when I read that because my mother always told me "you've got your whole life to be an adult why push it?" Translation: Don't be in such a huge hurry to grow up, embrace your inner child as long as you can.

horrible advice

[NewColtsFan]

horrible advice

 

well....   one again,  the joke's on you.

 

The line you put into bold,  is not anyone's advice.    It's Coby's take on his life....

 

But,  thanks for playing!

 

By the way,  are you still on the "Coby can't play band-wagon"...?      I think the wagon got derailed pretty badly.

 

Maybe you should stay on the sidelines where it's safe and you can't get hurt.

[dudeski]

well.... one again, the joke's on you.

The line you put into bold, is not anyone's advice. It's Coby's take on his life....

But, thanks for playing!

By the way, are you still on the "Coby can't play band-wagon"...? I think the wagon got derailed pretty badly.

Maybe you should stay on the sidelines where it's safe and you can't get hurt.

[NewColtsFan]

i didn't bold anything. Reading comprehension jr

He had a really good game. Hopefully that continues. I doubt it will

[RockThatBlue]

My bad.

Point for Mr. Dudeski.

[Superfly Jay]

Coby came through for us big time last week. Hopefully, he can stay consistent, but we do have a lot of weapons in the passing game. 

[dudeski]

Its his first point ever. Maybe he can use that point to buy himself a happy meal at mcdonald's or something.