Bill Belichick: Peyton is the best I've coached against

[southwest1]

 

 

either way the quote is high praise for Peyton . . . surely BB can flavor his comments in front of the press and especially before a game so as not to upset the competition (which he does to everyone), but we all know that BB respects Peyton and that Peyton has the QB IQ to draw such comments . . .

Bingo! I didn't take anything BB said as an insult to Manning & even if Bill said Brady is my QB & broke into tears like former Dallas WR T.O. I wouldn't be offended by that at all like Sweet Surrender so eloquently said both Brady & BB are directly responsible for each other's success in this league. 

 

It is possible to display favoritism toward 1 field general while still praising another. Bill is capable of having 2 thoughts in his head at the same time. Manning was not slammed here & given Brady's playoff success for over a decade why wouldn't he back the guy who helped him acquire 3 rings as opposed to just 1? It makes perfect sense to me anyway. 

[Shane Bond]

Another fan has arrived.

[southwest1]

Belichick is talking to the media? What has this world come to lol.

Your hypothetical question is both hilarious & it makes me ponder a crucial question QuizBoy. 

 

If BB was given sodium pentathol or truth serum to prompt him to lower his guard, would he still give short, precise, 1 word answers to reporters at a press conference? Probably. 

 

The serum would be too afraid of Bill to actually work properly & lower his inhibitions. Just kidding!

 

I can't blame the serum either. I've read some exchanges of Bill in the film room to players who think they don't need to work in his book about his father & Bill is not a guy you wanna tick off trust me. 

[Shane Bond]

Sarcasm, bud.

Nobody here agrees with you.

Thank you Dynasty *

[OldManP]

That is exactly what i meant . See the fan following i have here . Thank you.

Fan following?  Not sure if I missed a joke or you are deluded.  No offense, but I never know what you're talking about.

 

Belichick has been a coach a long time, has coached against many QBs who are superior to Peyton Manning.  He's never coached against Tom Brady, and it is very clear that is why he made this statement.  He never coached against #19 for the Baltimore Colts.  He never coached against Y.A.T. either. 

[Shane Bond]

Fan following? Not sure if I missed a joke or you are deluded. No offense, but I never know what you're talking about.

Belichick has been a coach a long time, has coached against many QBs who are superior to Peyton Manning. He's never coached against Tom Brady, and it is very clear that is why he made this statement. He never coached against #19 for the Baltimore Colts. He never coached against Y.A.T. either.

yeah you are missing it, no offense but getting old may be?.

Yeah I never understood yours either.

[-JJ-]

Belichick is talking to the media? What has this world come to lol.

well not really the media. Just weekly pregame PC with the local reporters. He always praises the opponent and rightfully so. They are good.

He went a little further with Manning but why wouldn't he- its obvious Manning would be the best QB he's coached against just for his intellect never mind...whatta call it...laser arm ;)

[JerodMayo51]

I think he did by qualifying it as "best I've coached against." 

 

LOL, I'm kidding... Bill would snort, smack his lips, and give an answer that loosely translates to, "get lost and stop bothering me with this unimportant crap."

 

He's said this before about Manning. And Manning reciprocated. It's a virtual lovefest!

 

Bill has already vehemently stated that there is no other QB in the league he would rather have than Tom Brady.  There is a video clip of it on youtube im sure, im just not going to bother going to dig it up lol

[JerodMayo51]

Bill has already said that Brady is the only QB he would want to have on his team. He has said it multiples in fact. Almost every time he is asked about Brady.

http://www.patriots.com/news/article-1/Bill-Belichick-85-No-other-quarterback-I’d-rather-have-quarterbacking-our-team-than-Tom-Brady/26bcbed5-ecc1-405c-a39c-284d3911e12b

 

hehe this is what i said in one of my replies.. ive been working my way through this thread and replying as I go so I didn't see your post yet before i made mine.. but glad to see that im not the only one that remembers that!

 

For Belichick to say something so definitively is very rare and shows that he actually means it too.

[JerodMayo51]

He was never asked who is the only QB he would ever want on his team. He offered that comment himself. And he has done it on multiple occasions. I think when arguably the best coach of all time says that Brady is the only QB he would want to have QB his team it is pretty clear who he thinks is the best QB. He has never said that about another player that he has ever coached.

 

bingo!

 

BB does not just randomly lavish praise onto players for fun or to give media people something to write about.. when he says something like that, its EXTREMELY RARE and he means every word of it.

[-JJ-]

Bill has already vehemently stated that there is no other QB in the league he would rather have than Tom Brady.  There is a video clip of it on youtube im sure, im just not going to bother going to dig it up lol

I seen that but you can take that two ways. Because he's better or more coachable in BB's scheme.

Can you imagine a BB coached Manning <ouch>

[southwest1]

" I feel like Tom and I do have a good relationship and I have a lot of respect for Tom. No other quarterback I’d rather have quarterbacking our team than Tom Brady. I guess that’s the best way I could sum it up."

 

I have no qualms with that statement by BB. If he didn't say that, I'd be shocked. Regardless of the outcome of the game this weekend, I don't look for excuses & if Brady wins, I will be the 1st to send him props for playing a great game.

 

By the same token, if Manning wins, I don't gloat or rub other peoples noses in it because at the end of the day I know how exceptional both teams are. I just love the TD fireworks!  

[southwest1]

Can you imagine a BB coached Manning <ouch>

I think about that a lot. How Manning & Belichick would have gotten along in the same building or if Tom Brady had played for Tom Couglin's NY Giants in 2007 & 2011 with that tremendous pass rush. 

[southwest1]

bingo!

 

BB does not just randomly lavish praise onto players for fun or to give media people something to write about.. when he says something like that, its EXTREMELY RARE and he means every word of it.

Yup, I remember when BB said that WR Randy Moss was 1 of the smartest players he's ever been around & worked with. I was like whoa...Take notice Randy because Bill is seldom this glowing about an athlete he's coached except for maybe Tedy Bruschi. 

 

Here's Tedy's breakdown of the matchup:

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/bruschibreakdown-103014/new-england-patriots-vs-denver-broncos

 

Favorite section below:

 

" It's almost like it's an irrelevant topic at times [Denver's o-line that is] because of how quickly Manning releases the ball. Brady is similar and I think that's why the Patriots' offense is starting to look better -- Tom's ability to get rid of the ball on time. The quarterbacks have similar styles."

[BloodyChamp]

There is no contradiction in what Bill said years ago and what he said recently. Quarterbacks go up and down on the scale depending on how good or bad they are with every season, especially now that the passhappy era is on. Stats haven't even came close to maxing out in this era. 55 TDs? Somebody will have 60 soon. 7 TDs in a game? 2/5 of the number of people who'd done that since the beginning of time did that last season.

[-JJ-]

I think about that a lot. How Manning & Belichick would have gotten along in the same building or if Tom Brady had played for Tom Couglin's NY Giants in 2007 & 2011 with that tremendous pass rush.

Oh I've thought about it many times. Mostly in his early colts years. No way BB let's PM call the shots or whine when the punt team comes on. Or pass at the goal line 5 times in a row:)   What BB would have done is make him the deadly play action passer he already had the skills for. Saw that in him his very 1st game in the NFL. I really noticed it and it was the best I'd ever seen.

 

Now couple that with a defense what do you get? ;)

[Qwiz]

Your hypothetical question is both hilarious & it makes me ponder a crucial question QuizBoy. 

 

If BB was given sodium pentathol or truth serum to prompt him to lower his guard, would he still give short, precise, 1 word answers to reporters at a press conference? Probably. 

 

The serum would be too afraid of Bill to actually work properly & lower his inhibitions. Just kidding!

 

I can't blame the serum either. I've read some exchanges of Bill in the film room to players who think they don't need to work in his book about his father & Bill is not a guy you wanna tick off trust me. 

Yeah, I think he has mastered one-word responses, even if administered truth serum lol.

[amfootball]

Oh I've thought about it many times. Mostly in his early colts years. No way BB let's PM call the shots or whine when the punt team comes on. Or pass at the goal line 5 times in a row:)   What BB would have done is make him the deadly play action passer he already had the skills for. Saw that in him his very 1st game in the NFL. I really noticed it and it was the best I'd ever seen.

 

Now couple that with a defense what do you get? ;)

I think when Bill sees Manning, he sees a lot of Bledsoe in terms of the big arm and the penchant for turning the ball over. I remember one of the biggest reasons why Bill said he moved Tom up the depth chart so quickly and why he was taken in the draft despite the Pats already having three QBs on the roster is because he does not turn the ball over and makes good decisions. He has the best TD/INT ratio of all time and is currently on pace to match his unanimous MVP year in 2010 when he threw 36 TDs to 4 picks which remains the best TD/INT ratio for a single season at 9. I am not sure this can be emphasized enough and why Bill has been able to get away with having lesser talent around Tom because he won't turn the ball over. Just my two cents.

 

I also think the frigid temps in Foxboro would have hurt Peyton. Really Brady and Bill are hand and glove in terms of the perfect football match. It goes well beyond the two of them just being good at their jobs.

[-JJ-]

I think when Bill sees Manning, he sees a lot of Bledsoe in terms of the big arm and the penchant for turning the ball over. I remember one of the biggest reasons why Bill said he moved Tom up the depth chart so quickly and why he was taken in the draft despite the Pats already having three QBs on the roster is because he does not turn the ball over and makes good decisions. He has the best TD/INT ratio of all time and is currently on pace to match his unanimous MVP year in 2010 when he threw 36 TDs to 4 picks which remains the best TD/INT ratio for a single season at 9. I am not sure this can be emphasized enough and why Bill has been able to get away with having lesser talent around Tom because he won't turn the ball over. Just my two cents.

 

I also think the frigid temps in Foxboro would have hurt Peyton. Really Brady and Bill are hand and glove in terms of the perfect football match. It goes well beyond the two of them just being good at their jobs.

Partly true- Bledsoe I would disagree with comparing to Manning. It is true BB wanted a top notch game manager and one who was accurate. Turnovers are a real sore spot with BB. In that respect Brady was the perfect match.

 

As to Manning in the frigid Foxboro- actually very few games are frigid, that's where Manning's excellent play action comes in with a good run game and defense.  BB also coached bad weather to Brady - like cross field passing in snow instead of down field. He would have done the same with Manning.

 

Then of course Manning would have hit the bombs with a little more accuracy than Brady can.

 

A reigned in Manning under BB would have won as many SBs I think.

[southwest1]

I think when Bill sees Manning, he sees a lot of Bledsoe in terms of the big arm and the penchant for turning the ball over. I remember one of the biggest reasons why Bill said he moved Tom up the depth chart so quickly and why he was taken in the draft despite the Pats already having three QBs on the roster is because he does not turn the ball over and makes good decisions. He has the best TD/INT ratio of all time and is currently on pace to match his unanimous MVP year in 2010 when he threw 36 TDs to 4 picks which remains the best TD/INT ratio for a single season at 9. I am not sure this can be emphasized enough and why Bill has been able to get away with having lesser talent around Tom because he won't turn the ball over. Just my two cents.

 

I also think the frigid temps in Foxboro would have hurt Peyton. Really Brady and Bill are hand and glove in terms of the perfect football match. It goes well beyond the two of them just being good at their jobs.

I don't know about that. It's not like Peyton has never won in the snow. If BB had coached 18 his entire career, he would have given him a solid defense something Manning never really had in INDY & he masked this problem with such a quick release of the football & he anticipates throws & having WRs & TE's at their mark or route formations better than an modern day QB I have ever seen. I will say though Warren Moon threw a beautiful long ball with perfect touch. 

 

I have nothing against Brady & I'm confident he would have been successful playing for any coach, but Brady never changed teams & he was never forced to learn a whole new system coaching philosophy wise or adjust to a new city either like Peyton has in Denver. I will acknowledge that Brady had Bill O'Brien as an OC for a while, but Josh McDaniel's has been in Foxboro for a long time which makes a huge difference. 

 

Also, if you watch Peyton this year, you can tell that 18 has better velocity on the ball now meaning that the nerves in his arm are regenerating since he 1st arrived in Denver. The glove definitely gives Manning a better grip on the ball & I have seen Tom wear a glove in cold snow games too so the frigid weather remark doesn't spell weakness to me. Lastly, Manning's interception numbers are never that high season wise so I don't really understand why they are even being brought up. Also, both Manning & Brady are leaps & bounds ahead of Drew Bledsoe. 

[southwest1]

Partly true- Bledsoe I would disagree with comparing to Manning. It is true BB wanted a top notch game manager and one who was accurate. Turnovers are a real sore spot with BB. In that respect Brady was the perfect match.

 

As to Manning in the frigid Foxboro- actually very few games are frigid, that's where Manning's excellent play action comes in with a good run game and defense.  BB also coached bad weather to Brady - like cross field passing in snow instead of down field. He would have done the same with Manning.

 

Then of course Manning would have hit the bombs with a little more accuracy than Brady can.

 

A reigned in Manning under BB would have won as many SBs I think.

No, a stout defense under BB would have won Manning 4 SBs easy. If you gave Peyton a Foxboro defense that swarms to the ball, it leads to additional QB touches, a shorter field to score TDs, & it takes pressure off Manning always thinking he must get 6 points every possession.  

 

What do you mean "a reigned in Manning" exactly? Peyton is not reckless with the ball. He always takes what the defense gives him, takes his shots downfield, & will run the ball if that's what it takes to beat you & run the clock out with a gritty victory. 

 

Look, I will give Brady his props, but I'm getting sick & tired of people inferring that Peyton can't win in the cold or under BB's guidance. Bill would learn just as much from Manning as 18 would learn from the grey hoodie. It's a 2 way street from 2 brilliant football minds. 

 

About the only HC Peyton couldn't work with is 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh whose more of a control freak & head strong than Manning I think. Part of me does wonder what a cool partnership it would have been to see Rex Ryan as DC work in concert with Peyton in Denver. Nothing against Jack Del Rio BTW. I just have a ton of respect for Rex's genius on defense. Could you image that? Peyton runs the O & Rex smothers you with his D. Now that would be spectacular to see IMHO. 

[southwest1]

Oh I've thought about it many times. Mostly in his early colts years. No way BB let's PM call the shots or whine when the punt team comes on. Or pass at the goal line 5 times in a row:)   What BB would have done is make him the deadly play action passer he already had the skills for. Saw that in him his very 1st game in the NFL. I really noticed it and it was the best I'd ever seen.

 

Now couple that with a defense what do you get? ;)

Okay, I owe you an apology JJ because I missed this reply earlier. Sorry my bad. You did mention defense & BB already proved in NY as the DC under Bill Parcells that he was a mastermind in this area. 

 

It would be intriguing to see Bill & Peyton work on the same sideline together other than say a meaningless ProBowl appearance for instance. Bill's real gift is as a NFL scout/GM. He was breaking down player tendencies years before most other franchises were...His level of detail I mean was on another level largely due to going on scouting trips as a kid with his father. 

[amfootball]

No, a stout defense under BB would have won Manning 4 SBs easy. If you gave Peyton a Foxboro defense that swarms to the ball, it leads to additional QB touches, a shorter field to score TDs, & it takes pressure off Manning always thinking he must get 6 points every possession.  

 

What do you mean "a reigned in Manning" exactly? Peyton is not reckless with the ball. He always takes what the defense gives him, takes his shots downfield, & will run the ball if that's what it takes to beat you & run the clock out with a gritty victory. 

 

Look, I will give Brady his props, but I'm getting sick & tired of people inferring that Peyton can't win in the cold or under BB's guidance. Bill would learn just as much from Manning as 18 would learn from the grey hoodie. It's a 2 way street from 2 brilliant football minds. 

 

About the only HC Peyton couldn't work with is 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh whose more of a control freak & head strong than Manning I think. Part of me does wonder what a cool partnership it would have been to see Rex Ryan as DC work in concert with Peyton in Denver. Nothing against Jack Del Rio BTW. I just have a ton of respect for Rex's genius on defense. Could you image that? Peyton runs the O & Rex smothers you with his D. Now that would be spectacular to see IMHO. 

BB is just as head strong maybe more so than Jim.

[amfootball]

Partly true- Bledsoe I would disagree with comparing to Manning. It is true BB wanted a top notch game manager and one who was accurate. Turnovers are a real sore spot with BB. In that respect Brady was the perfect match.

 

As to Manning in the frigid Foxboro- actually very few games are frigid, that's where Manning's excellent play action comes in with a good run game and defense.  BB also coached bad weather to Brady - like cross field passing in snow instead of down field. He would have done the same with Manning.

 

Then of course Manning would have hit the bombs with a little more accuracy than Brady can.

 

A reigned in Manning under BB would have won as many SBs I think.

I am not sure I follow. Manning had great play action in Indy and had a much better run threat in Faulk and then James than Brady ever had.

[-JJ-]

No, a stout defense under BB would have won Manning 4 SBs easy. If you gave Peyton a Foxboro defense that swarms to the ball, it leads to additional QB touches, a shorter field to score TDs, & it takes pressure off Manning always thinking he must get 6 points every possession.  

 

What do you mean "a reigned in Manning" exactly? Peyton is not reckless with the ball. He always takes what the defense gives him, takes his shots downfield, & will run the ball if that's what it takes to beat you & run the clock out with a gritty victory. 

 

Look, I will give Brady his props, but I'm getting sick & tired of people inferring that Peyton can't win in the cold or under BB's guidance. Bill would learn just as much from Manning as 18 would learn from the grey hoodie. It's a 2 way street from 2 brilliant football minds. 

 

About the only HC Peyton couldn't work with is 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh whose more of a control freak & head strong than Manning I think. Part of me does wonder what a cool partnership it would have been to see Rex Ryan as DC work in concert with Peyton in Denver. Nothing against Jack Del Rio BTW. I just have a ton of respect for Rex's genius on defense. Could you image that? Peyton runs the O & Rex smothers you with his D. Now that would be spectacular to see IMHO. 

As in coached from the sidelines. Not PM under center calling the game. Sure he does a good job, better than any QB but you lose something under center- like the big picture- that's why Pro QBs are coached from the sideline.  Now I'm speaking of the early years- both are quite capable at running hurry up or a fast offense- still it come from the sideline with BB. Brady cannot even look like he's waving off the punt team- not even a snicker.

[-JJ-]

I am not sure I follow. Manning had great play action in Indy and had a much better run threat in Faulk and then James than Brady ever had.

Not near as much as if he was coached (game called ) to a true play action QB. James was well.. a triplet. That's what they had.

[amfootball]

Not near as much as if he was coached (game called ) to a true play action QB. James was well.. a triplet. That's what they had.

The issue in Indy though was never the offense. In fact, it has been one of the most productive offenses in the history of the NFL. Credit Tom Moore big time on that.

[amfootball]

Okay, I owe you an apology JJ because I missed this reply earlier. Sorry my bad. You did mention defense & BB already proved in NY as the DC under Bill Parcells that he was a mastermind in this area. 

 

It would be intriguing to see Bill & Peyton work on the same sideline together other than say a meaningless ProBowl appearance for instance. Bill's real gift is as a NFL scout/GM. He was breaking down player tendencies years before most other franchises were...His level of detail I mean was on another level largely due to going on scouting trips as a kid with his father. 

Bill's strength though is not offense, it is defense. He barely even looks up when the O is out there. He is usually scribbling and coaching up the D. If anything, he probably would have brought Moore on to coach Manning as he would not tinker with the Indy offense that has been so successful and what Manning is best at running.

[sweetsurrender]

No, a stout defense under BB would have won Manning 4 SBs easy. If you gave Peyton a Foxboro defense that swarms to the ball, it leads to additional QB touches, a shorter field to score TDs, & it takes pressure off Manning always thinking he must get 6 points every possession.  

 

What do you mean "a reigned in Manning" exactly? Peyton is not reckless with the ball. He always takes what the defense gives him, takes his shots downfield, & will run the ball if that's what it takes to beat you & run the clock out with a gritty victory. 

 

Look, I will give Brady his props, but I'm getting sick & tired of people inferring that Peyton can't win in the cold or under BB's guidance. Bill would learn just as much from Manning as 18 would learn from the grey hoodie. It's a 2 way street from 2 brilliant football minds. 

 

About the only HC Peyton couldn't work with is 49ers HC Jim Harbaugh whose more of a control freak & head strong than Manning I think. Part of me does wonder what a cool partnership it would have been to see Rex Ryan as DC work in concert with Peyton in Denver. Nothing against Jack Del Rio BTW. I just have a ton of respect for Rex's genius on defense. Could you image that? Peyton runs the O & Rex smothers you with his D. Now that would be spectacular to see IMHO. 

Manning would have had nowhere the weapons with the Patriots as he had in Indy so not sure what type of success he would have had. Bill's approach to the game is nothing like that of Pilian or now Elway. I think NE may have been a horrible fit for Manning for these reasons and the weather. And not sure he and Bill would have got along. Both are control freaks.

[-JJ-]

The issue in Indy though was never the offense. In fact, it has been one of the most productive offenses in the history of the NFL. Credit Tom Moore big time on that.

Offense wins games but not championships. That was my point - BB would have lessened that offense some for defense and ST.

[-JJ-]

Bill's strength though is not offense, it is defense. He barely even looks up when the O is out there. He is usually scribbling and coaching up the D. If anything, he probably would have brought Moore on to coach Manning as he would not tinker with the Indy offense that has been so successful and what Manning is best at running.

You see that on game day where the D has to be more reactive or adjusted. He's still in on the offense during the week. I'm pretty sure he's a good reason why the Oline shaped up- he stepped in personally since as HC he can fire-  so it was play and do your job or walk.

 

There was a game 07 in Indy where NE was down mid 3rd qtr. Freeney and Mathis were simply stopping NE on drives.  So he told Brady to up the tempo to gas Freeney and Mathis. They both went out at various times gasping for air and that's when NE drove the ball down for score.

 

And then there was the Moss burner

[JerodMayo51]

I don't know about that. It's not like Peyton has never won in the snow. If BB had coached 18 his entire career, he would have given him a solid defense something Manning never really had in INDY & he masked this problem with such a quick release of the football & he anticipates throws & having WRs & TE's at their mark or route formations better than an modern day QB I have ever seen. I will say though Warren Moon threw a beautiful long ball with perfect touch.

 

Im going to start by saying that I love you southwest1 as a poster... You're very articulate and I know that you really enjoy the game of football and all of the dynamics that are at play in this league.

 

 

This is my main point, and I may do a horrible job at portraying this in my current state of mind, but here it goes...

 

Yes, Brady had a pretty awesome defense early in his career and a lack of any elite offensive talent at his disposal...   So my question is, for the people that are all over Manning, is that...  What if Indy had started to draft and sign top notch talent to favor the defensive side of the ball instead of the offensive side like they did for over half a decade?

 

If Indy was winning Super Bowls under Manning because of their top notch defense, his offensive statistics would have dropped significantly not having Hall of Famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne...  Would Colts fans be putting forth the same arguments right now?  If you stack the defensive side of the football, then the offensive side has to suffer a little bit...  if the offensive side suffers a little bit, then Manning isn't breaking records every single year with an All-Pro cast of skill players, but the team as a whole is winning,

 

I think that one thing that seems to just be conveniently skipped over all the time when people drive so hard with their Manning vs Brady angle is that Manning had the same offensive coordinator for the vast majority of his career and had a Hall of Fame cast of talent around him at the skill positions to get that offense into an absolute insane rythym, with a very high football IQ level of intelligence and subtle body language communication that contributed to his incredible stats...

 

Everyone loves to continue to reference the stats, but they never, ever want to acknowledge that Manning had an incredible cast of talent around him to help contribute to those statistics.

 

When it comes to winning a Super Bowl.. you need a complete team around you that is hitting on all cylinders in December/January to hoist that Lombardi trophy up.   One of my HUGE pet peeves/pain points here has been that people who love/support Manning absolutely LOVE to give him credit for all of his records and stats that he put up as if its a single, individual accomplishment that proves how amazing he is... but then will be like "oh its a team accomplishment to win a Super Bowl."

 

That gets really old, really fast...  Everything is a TEAM accomplishment.... EVERYTHING!  You can't score 55 touchdowns in a single regular season with a cast of no-name skill position players...  You need VERY talented players around you and perfectly in-sync with you in order to be able to perform at that level...  but whenever you hear people refer to Manning's stats, they act like its just Peyton Manning out there slinging it to a bunch of nobodies and hes just so amazing and perfect that he somehow manages to break all of these records...  NOPE!  When he accomplishes these feats, just like when Brady accomplished his record, they were surrounded by INCREDIBLE talent at the skill positions.

 

Everything in the NFL is a team accomplishment..  No single player goes out onto the field and just completely dictates a game... This isn't the NBA, there are 11 people on the field that are all trying to accomplish an objective, and if even 1 person is off or out of sync, it can totally screw the production of that 11 man unit.

 

To make a long story short... Those people that like to say "Oh Manning would have totally won like 7 SuperBowls if he was on the Patriots in the early 2000's!!!!"  seem to like to live in a bubble..   Brady did not have an incredible surplus of offensive talent when they won those Super Bowls..   they had a great defense, but he had to play PERFECT football and play CLUTCH in key situations in order for them to win those Super Bowls... but Manning supporters like to pretend that all of Manning's statistics would have just magically carried over with a bunch of JAGs and he would have won multiple Super Bowls AND still had all of these incredible statistics...

 

Its a "have your cake and eat it too" type mindset.... which I think is what many of the Brady aligned "Manning vs Brady" supporters get very frustrated with.  Its no secret that Manning has had an incredible wealth of talent around him at all times in his career as a QB, which he has obviously taken advantage of and put up great numbers.. but there is more to winning a Championship than just impressive offensive numbers,,, it takes a whole team, and a QB that can make plays when it matters and not turn the ball over..   That sounds like such a "simple" thing when you look at it in the lens of statistics and offensive dominance... but when it comes time to PLAYOFF football, its a VERY cerebral game that has very complex game plans and a very high level of intensity, not to mention that the refs seem to "let them play" more than the regular season...   The QBs that can navigate all of that and put their team in position to be a winner is an incredible skill/talent and I feel is often overlooked/underrated in this new fantasy football age of STATS, YARDS, TOUCHDOWNS!!! OMG OMG OMG TOUCHDOWNS OMG!!!!....

 

Its all about the wins, baby!

[Jules]

Belichick must have NFL dolls at home to play with when he gets bored.

 

BB to Peyton doll: You're the best!

Brady doll: No Coach no. I am! I am! 3 rings. 3 rings. 

BB: Brady I am talking to Peyton right now.

Andrew Luck doll: What about me. I am young, hairy, I speak German and I have a bigger arm.

Brady and Peyton dolls: Go away loser. You have yet to set the records our holy arms have.

Brees doll: I have set records too. And I have a ring over Peyton.

Peyton doll: Shut up shortie. Go back to your dome. 

Brees doll: You wanna take this outside?

 

 

BB: *Puts dolls back in box.*

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway I got bored........

 

 

[JerodMayo51]

 

I have nothing against Brady & I'm confident he would have been successful playing for any coach, but Brady never changed teams & he was never forced to learn a whole new system coaching philosophy wise or adjust to a new city either like Peyton has in Denver.

 

eeeekkkk.....

 

Brady has gone through offensive coordinators like a revolving door...  Manning had Mudd and Moore for the majority of his career, along with hall of fame talent at the outside (and arguably the inside) positions.

[southwest1]

Im going to start by saying that I love you southwest1 as a poster... You're very articulate and I know that you really enjoy the game of football and all of the dynamics that are at play in this league.

 

 

This is my main point, and I may do a horrible job at portraying this in my current state of mind, but here it goes...

 

Yes, Brady had a pretty awesome defense early in his career and a lack of any elite offensive talent at his disposal...   So my question is, for the people that are all over Manning, is that...  What if Indy had started to draft and sign top notch talent to favor the defensive side of the ball instead of the offensive side like they did for over half a decade?

 

If Indy was winning Super Bowls under Manning because of their top notch defense, his offensive statistics would have dropped significantly not having Hall of Famers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne...  Would Colts fans be putting forth the same arguments right now?  If you stack the defensive side of the football, then the offensive side has to suffer a little bit...  if the offensive side suffers a little bit, then Manning isn't breaking records every single year with an All-Pro cast of skill players, but the team as a whole is winning,

 

I think that one thing that seems to just be conveniently skipped over all the time when people drive so hard with their Manning vs Brady angle is that Manning had the same offensive coordinator for the vast majority of his career and had a Hall of Fame cast of talent around him at the skill positions to get that offense into an absolute insane rythym, with a very high football IQ level of intelligence and subtle body language communication that contributed to his incredible stats...

 

Everyone loves to continue to reference the stats, but they never, ever want to acknowledge that Manning had an incredible cast of talent around him to help contribute to those statistics.

 

When it comes to winning a Super Bowl.. you need a complete team around you that is hitting on all cylinders in December/January to hoist that Lombardi trophy up.   One of my HUGE pet peeves/pain points here has been that people who love/support Manning absolutely LOVE to give him credit for all of his records and stats that he put up as if its a single, individual accomplishment that proves how amazing he is... but then will be like "oh its a team accomplishment to win a Super Bowl."

 

That gets really old, really fast...  Everything is a TEAM accomplishment.... EVERYTHING!  You can't score 55 touchdowns in a single regular season with a cast of no-name skill position players...  You need VERY talented players around you and perfectly in-sync with you in order to be able to perform at that level...  but whenever you hear people refer to Manning's stats, they act like its just Peyton Manning out there slinging it to a bunch of nobodies and hes just so amazing and perfect that he somehow manages to break all of these records...  NOPE!  When he accomplishes these feats, just like when Brady accomplished his record, they were surrounded by INCREDIBLE talent at the skill positions.

 

Everything in the NFL is a team accomplishment..  No single player goes out onto the field and just completely dictates a game... This isn't the NBA, there are 11 people on the field that are all trying to accomplish an objective, and if even 1 person is off or out of sync, it can totally screw the production of that 11 man unit.

 

To make a long story short... Those people that like to say "Oh Manning would have totally won like 7 SuperBowls if he was on the Patriots in the early 2000's!!!!"  seem to like to live in a bubble..   Brady did not have an incredible surplus of offensive talent when they won those Super Bowls..   they had a great defense, but he had to play PERFECT football and play CLUTCH in key situations in order for them to win those Super Bowls... but Manning supporters like to pretend that all of Manning's statistics would have just magically carried over with a bunch of JAGs and he would have won multiple Super Bowls AND still had all of these incredible statistics...

 

Its a "have your cake and eat it too" type mindset.... which I think is what many of the Brady aligned "Manning vs Brady" supporters get very frustrated with.  Its no secret that Manning has had an incredible wealth of talent around him at all times in his career as a QB, which he has obviously taken advantage of and put up great numbers.. but there is more to winning a Championship than just impressive offensive numbers,,, it takes a whole team, and a QB that can make plays when it matters and not turn the ball over..   That sounds like such a "simple" thing when you look at it in the lens of statistics and offensive dominance... but when it comes time to PLAYOFF football, its a VERY cerebral game that has very complex game plans and a very high level of intensity, not to mention that the refs seem to "let them play" more than the regular season...   The QBs that can navigate all of that and put their team in position to be a winner is an incredible skill/talent and I feel is often overlooked/underrated in this new fantasy football age of STATS, YARDS, TOUCHDOWNS!!! OMG OMG OMG TOUCHDOWNS OMG!!!!....

 

Its all about the wins, baby!

Thank you JM51 for your kind words on my behalf. I value what others think of me, especially individuals who have a different #1 team than mine. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I put a premium on fairness & if a person like yourself has taken the time to write such a well detailed entry I need to appreciate that, pay attention, & reciprocate the favor back to them as a token of mutual respect. 

 

Yes, you're right Peyton had OC Tom Moore & OL Coach Howard Mudd for several years in INDY. Along with GM Bill Polian with a treasure trove of drafting experience in Buffalo & Carolina before being hired in Colts country. It is also fair to say that Manning had a ton of top notch weapons in Marvin Harrison, Pierre Garcon, Reggie Wayne, Austin Collie, Edgerrin James, & quality pass rushers in Dwight Freeney & Robert Mathis. But, Manning has had different head coaches in INDY from Jim Mora, to Tony Dungy, to Jim Caldwell vs Brady who has only known Bill Belichick his entire NFL career. 

 

I gonna be honest here. 2 things about Peyton fan mania irritate me: 1. When fans use MVP awards as a substitute for SBs, they're not. I get so frustrated over this crazy rationalization it drives me insane & 2. When fans use any excuse to shield him from criticism over say the lackluster SB performance vs the Seattle Seahawks & Manning has a really difficult time admitting when he did not bring his A game. That's the nicest way I can put it.

 

I will agree with you that football is not like tennis where you only have to depend on 1 person to win. I will also concede that no team has both a tremendous offense & a tremendous defense on the same squad. There's always a tradeoff somewhere which usually means you tailor your scheme to what your QB does best: Either sling the ball downfield or practice game management with no turnovers, a tight D, & a good ground game. Kurt Warner & the Rams were the best show on turf offensively in 1999 vs Trent Dilfer & the 2000 Ravens with Ray Lewis & the shutdown defense. 

 

Yep, at the end of the day, all anybody cares about is how many SBs did you play in & how many did you win? 

 

I will say though that a quick accurate release of the football can easily dictate what a defense does & it also leads to too many men on the field penalties in a hurry offense if substitutions are not executed fast enough. 

[southwest1]

eeeekkkk.....

 

Brady has gone through offensive coordinators like a revolving door...  Manning had Mudd and Moore for the majority of his career, along with hall of fame talent at the outside (and arguably the inside) positions.

It's a heck of a lot easier to change the OC vs the HC because the latter usually means the owner has cleaned house coaching wise & literally started over with a whole new philosophy from the ground up. 

 

Once Brady starts playing for another AFC franchise like Manning to Denver, then we can talk about this scenario say if Brady got released by BB & went to the Bengals for instance. Until that happens, I'm not giving Brady a pass on wholesale organizational changes in a new city with a brand new scheme on offense, defense, & special teams. 

 

I do agree however that Brady has dealt with more WR, RB, & TE turnover than Manning has ever had to contend with. Plus, Brady rarely if ever gets #1 elite talent draft selection wise. The dude makes average WRs look ProBowl caliber every darn year. It's incredible! That's the nicest complement I can give Brady: He makes mediocre talent look respectable. 

[southwest1]

Belichick must have NFL dolls at home to play with when he gets bored.

 

BB to Peyton doll: You're the best!

Brady doll: No Coach no. I am! I am! 3 rings. 3 rings. 

BB: Brady I am talking to Peyton right now.

Andrew Luck doll: What about me. I am young, hairy, I speak German and I have a bigger arm.

Brady and Peyton dolls: Go away loser. You have yet to set the records our holy arms have.

Brees doll: I have set records too. And I have a ring over Peyton.

Peyton doll: Shut up shortie. Go back to your dome. 

Brees doll: You wanna take this outside?

 

 

BB: *Puts dolls back in box.*

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway I got bored........

That's what I admire about you Jules. You never shy away from controversy. In fact, you often run toward it.   I'm surprised you didn't say that short QBs are the new achilles heel of #18 i.e. DB & RW. 

 

Hey Jules, do a doll skit on why Jay Cutler & Tom Romo will never win a SB, let alone play in one. Kind of like QBs crying in their beer over fans who have no faith in them to seal the Lombardi deal. Just a thought. 

[southwest1]

As in coached from the sidelines. Not PM under center calling the game. Sure he does a good job, better than any QB but you lose something under center- like the big picture- that's why Pro QBs are coached from the sideline.  Now I'm speaking of the early years- both are quite capable at running hurry up or a fast offense- still it come from the sideline with BB. Brady cannot even look like he's waving off the punt team- not even a snicker.

I've said this before, actually to give full credit where credit is due, Yehoodi was the 1st person on here to say this: Brady slides or shuffles his feet in the pocket which provides just enough space to wait for a WR to get open or alter his launch point if necessary without really moving very far & still keeping his legs & lower beneath him which helps in his accuracy on the move. Manning is more stationary which means as a traditional pocket passer he runs like giraffe. Translation: If you alter his spot & force him to move, his accuracy suffers resulting in more incomplete passes or picks. Peyton has worked on his naked bootlegs though & throwing on the move. I will acknowledge that. 

 

I'm trying to picture Brady flapping his arms in the air or telling the special teams unit to stay put. It's too strange JJ. I can't even imagine it. Brady is too tight with Bill to do that without calling a timeout to talk it over 1st. 

 

The other thing I wonder about is how Peyton breaks down film. Is it entirely on his own & does the OC have the authority to scold Manning politely on a bad play? Is 18 given free reign to fix problems on his own? How much constructive criticism does he receive? Brady, I already know, is the tool through which BB holds the entire NE accountable. Translation: Bill uses Tom as an example to illustrate that no player on their roster is pardoned or free from criticism. 

[southwest1]

Manning would have had nowhere the weapons with the Patriots as he had in Indy so not sure what type of success he would have had. Bill's approach to the game is nothing like that of Pilian or now Elway. I think NE may have been a horrible fit for Manning for these reasons and the weather. And not sure he and Bill would have got along. Both are control freaks.

The only reason why I might see a partnership crumble between Peyton & Bill is this: Belichick saying to Manning "Look 18, I know you love top notch offensive talent, but in the wind in snow of Gillette Stadium what wins here is defense meaning that I as GM have to give you a solid o-line & good pass rushers to reek havoc & put the ball back in your hands. In other words, I can't give you #1 WR's & TE's year in; year out."

 

Could Manning win with a group of average to substandard WRs? Hmmm...That's a darn good question. Manning has always been used to high quality weapons & given his perfectionism skills I could see Peyton exploding at his offense not on the same page just like Brady did. 

 

Peyton would have gotten along fine with Bill once he understood the lengths Bill went to arm his players with intricately detailed reports of their opponents strengths & weaknesses. 

[southwest1]

When Bill retires & gets inducted into the HOF, I want to hear him talk about his cold weather philosophy. Feeding the RB with more carries is obvious naturally. But, how do you counteract the effects of wind, rain, & snow? Is there something a QB can do to put a different spin on the ball? Do you take short, choppy steps in snow for better traction? Or is a wider base recommended for a better throw? Even in a bad weather game, a QB must take calculated shots down field periodically to win the game. What does Bill fear the most sleet, snow, rain, or fog? For me, it's fog because it screws up your depth perception making distance hard to see let alone calculate 1st downs in if the fog is thick enough.