Ravens owner press conf....

[The Old Crow]

Bisciotti didn't release all the texts, so I do have a gripe with him there. He should have released a full transcript of his text messages with Rice, redacting any personal information as appropriate. But the texts he did release paint a much different picture than the texts that OTL alluded to.

And yes, OTL took a LOT of liberties. Something that made me roll my eyes was the part about the golf club membership. Tons of conjecture and speculation.

Maybe some of the texts were of a highly personal nature, I don't know. Ray would have been better off getting a year right off the bat, instead of 2 weeks. It still would have been ugly with the videotape, but not as bad as this.

[amfootball]

Look no organization is perfect as the Patriots well know. What else do you want the Ravens and Bisciotti to do ? They got the facts out, apologized for their shortcomings. and are trying to turn a negative situation into a positive by being part of the solution with the NFL.

Not hold that PC. I could care less what happens to Rice or Biscitotti as it is not my team as you say but I am just looking at from a PR and perception standpoint. You don't get up there and give a press conference like that off the cuff and appear accusatory and defensive. Admitting the mistakes is just fine but there are consequences as well.

 

What is your feel from Ravens fans overall? How do they feel about the report? About Rice? Afterall, that is who Biscitotti is appealing to and make sure his team is still supported.

[Superman]

He said the report was engineered by Rice's camp so he could help his case to get reinstated. There is no proof of that whatsoever. He took that out of his rear end. EPSN said they interviewed more than 20 people from inside the Ravens organization and the league. He did take accountability for the buffoonery as well which is what you are mistaking as sympathy for Rice.

 

 

First of all, I'm not talking about Bisciotti or the Ravens being sympathetic toward Rice. I'm talking about the nature of the OTL article. And that's very ironic, given that since February, there's been zero sympathy for Rice. It's only now that he's been kicked off the team that anyone is making him out to be the one wronged in this matter. And like I said, he's the one who hit his fiance, not the Ravens, not Roger Goodell.

 

Second, Bisciotti didn't say the report was engineered by Rice's camp. He said many of the sources were from Rice's camp. And when OTL commented on that, they made no effort to refute it. Saying he took it out of his rear end is willful ignorance. Reading the article, it's very obvious what the angle of many of the quotes is. There's simply no question that the "sources" were sympathetic to Rice.

[amfootball]

Umm, you're missing some things.

 

First of all, I'm not talking about Bisciotti or the Ravens being sympathetic toward Rice. I'm talking about the nature of the OTL article. And that's very ironic, given that since February, there's been zero sympathy for Rice. It's only now that he's been kicked off the team that anyone is making him out to be the one wronged in this matter. And like I said, he's the one who hit his fiance, not the Ravens, not Roger Goodell.

 

Second, Bisciotti didn't say the report was engineered by Rice's camp. He said many of the sources were from Rice's camp. And when OTL commented on that, they made no effort to refute it. Saying he took it out of his rear end is willful ignorance. Reading the article, it's very obvious what the angle of many of the quotes is. There's simply no question that the "sources" were sympathetic to Rice.

Maybe we are reading two different reports then. The goal of the report is not to exonerate Rice somehow but to point out the incompetence and possible falsehoods of Ravens mgmt. in the handling of the situation. Like I said, if that makes Rice seem like a sympathetic figure in all this then I guess that is a result but that is not how I feel after reading it. I think what Rice did was heinous and the report shows yet again how execs in the NFL can't get out of their own way and have to do a 50 mph back peddle.

 

And Bisciotti is wrong on the sourcing. ESPN said the sources were from the league, Raven's org, the players association and some friends of Rice. It was as comprehensive as you are going to get on a play by play of what happened.

[The Old Crow]

Not hold that PC. I could care less what happens to Rice or Biscitotti as it is not my team as you say but I am just looking at from a PR and perception standpoint. You don't get up there and give a press conference like that off the cuff and appear accusatory and defensive. Admitting the mistakes is just fine but there are consequences as well.

What is your feel from Ravens fans overall? How do they feel about the report? About Rice? Afterall, that is who Biscitotti is appealing to and make sure his team is still supported.

Basically , Bisciotti had to be on the defensive because his competence and integrity were attacked. He had no choice but to mount a defense.

I'm in Orlando now, so I'm not getting the full Baltimore perspective down here, but I think they respect Bisciotti for getting up there with a buck stops here perspective . People are angry with Ray because he was very important in the community , and let people down. Like any fan base, there is fatigue over this, and a hope it will end soon, so they can get back to enjoying football.

You guys know me though, I'm always glad to talk about any subject, even when my team is getting hammered. It is what it is, and there is no doubt this whole thing has been a black eye for the Raven's organization.

[amfootball]

Basically , Bisciotti had to be on the defensive because his competence and integrity were attacked. He had no choice but to mount a defense.

I'm in Orlando now, so I'm not getting the full Baltimore perspective down here, but I think they respect Bisciotti for getting up there with a buck stops here perspective . People are angry with Ray because he was very important in the community , and let people down. Like any fan base, there is fatigue over this, and a hope it will end soon, so they can get back to enjoying football.

You guys know me though, I'm always glad to talk about any subject, even when my team is getting hammered. It is what it is, and there is no doubt this whole thing has been a black eye for the Raven's organization.

Yeah, we felt the same here in NE over Hernandez. I still don't understand how a guy in his position who had just played in a Super Bowl with Brady the year prior could ruin his life the way he did. It really does hurt from a football perspective but more from a human perspective.

 

It will all blow over eventually especially if the Ravens keep winning. I do appreciate you bantering with me back and forth. Like I said, my play here is more the PR and the perception than anything else because I am wired that way with my education and career. I do find human relationships and response fascinating.

[jvan1973]

Maybe we are reading two different reports then. The goal of the report is not to exonerate Rice somehow but to point out the incompetence and possible falsehoods of Ravens mgmt. in the handling of the situation. Like I said, if that makes Rice seem like a sympathetic figure in all this then I guess that is a result but that is not how I feel after reading it. I think what Rice did was heinous and the report shows yet again how execs in the NFL can't get out of their own way and have to do a 50 mph back peddle.

And Bisciotti is wrong on the sourcing. ESPN said the sources were from the league, Raven's org, the players association and some friends of Rice. It was as comprehensive as you are going to get on a play by play of what happened.

ESPN won't name their sources. It could be anybody giving them "information". We will never know the truth without people putting their name on the info

[The Old Crow]

Maybe we are reading two different reports then. The goal of the report is not to exonerate Rice somehow but to point out the incompetence and possible falsehoods of Ravens mgmt. in the handling of the situation. Like I said, if that makes Rice seem like a sympathetic figure in all this then I guess that is a result but that is not how I feel after reading it. I think what Rice did was heinous and the report shows yet again how execs in the NFL can't get out of their own way and have to do a 50 mph back peddle.

And Bisciotti is wrong on the sourcing. ESPN said the sources were from the league, Raven's org, the players association and some friends of Rice. It was as comprehensive as you are going to get on a play by play of what happened.

Well that is what ESPN says, but it's just chock full of anonymous sources. Like Bisciotti , I am also sympathetic to Ray and his family. He has been embarrassed and duly punished. He has admitted his mistake. He has a wife and 2 year old, and he needs to make a living. Other than this horrible episode, he had been a pillar of the community for five years. This seemed to be an alcohol induced incident, not excusing it, but I would like to think this was an isolated incident. Ray's wife didn't want her husband fired, as they were already getting counseling, and we're getting past the worst night of their lives. But the National Inquirer like TMZ saw to it that their lives were further ruined. Then ESPN takes liberties with a grassy knoll like conspiracy story devoid of solid and named sources. This family deserves a chance to move on at some time and get some privacy. When is enough enough , with the press ?

[OffensivelyPC]

Maybe we are reading two different reports then. The goal of the report is not to exonerate Rice somehow but to point out the incompetence and possible falsehoods of Ravens mgmt. in the handling of the situation. Like I said, if that makes Rice seem like a sympathetic figure in all this then I guess that is a result but that is not how I feel after reading it. I think what Rice did was heinous and the report shows yet again how execs in the NFL can't get out of their own way and have to do a 50 mph back peddle.

 

And Bisciotti is wrong on the sourcing. ESPN said the sources were from the league, Raven's org, the players association and some friends of Rice. It was as comprehensive as you are going to get on a play by play of what happened.

That of course assumes the quotes are accurate and come from people who were privy to the statements that those sources claims were made.  To me, if everyone is going to demand that the NFL prove the things it is claiming, then it should also be incumbent on ESPN to prove it's sources are correct.  Quotes without a name would never fly in any adversarial setting, let alone ones that are based on heresay without proving also the validity of the source.  I get that we are not at that point yet, and may never get there.  So while I expect proof from the league to substantiate that it did not see teh video of Ray Rice in the elevator and that Ray's telling of the facts are different (or misleading in any way) from wha'ts depicted in the video before I accept it,  I expect that ESPN be held to the same standard of proof and prove that ESPN's sources are someone who was in the know and substantiate the hearsay before I will accept them.  I'm not saying you are one of those people who just pick and choose who to believe, but some people don't and won't look at the claims of ESPN (or Ray Rice, I guess) and the NFL with identical standards.

[Superman]

Maybe we are reading two different reports then. The goal of the report is not to exonerate Rice somehow but to point out the incompetence and possible falsehoods of Ravens mgmt. in the handling of the situation. Like I said, if that makes Rice seem like a sympathetic figure in all this then I guess that is a result but that is not how I feel after reading it. I think what Rice did was heinous and the report shows yet again how execs in the NFL can't get out of their own way and have to do a 50 mph back peddle.

 

And Bisciotti is wrong on the sourcing. ESPN said the sources were from the league, Raven's org, the players association and some friends of Rice. It was as comprehensive as you are going to get on a play by play of what happened.

 

The sources are many and varied. For instance, league sources say Roethlisberger was accompanied by Steelers' staff to his meeting with Goodell. That meets your criteria for "league sources." 

 

However, the supposedly meaty parts of the piece are all powered by Rice sympathizers. For instance, when the article suggests that Harbaugh wanted Rice cut, but Newsome shut that down: 

 

Newsome, according to what Rice was told, bristled at the recommendation, saying he was the decision-maker in the matter, not Harbaugh, and he believed in second chances.

 

That's not a league source. That's a Ray Rice source. And it runs counter to what the Ravens have always said. So at this point, it's believe who you want, because the two sides are clearly contradictory. And if you choose to discredit the Ravens' side of the story, then that brings into question all so-called Ravens sources.

 

There are other examples. Virtually anything that is about how the Ravens felt and what they told Rice is either coming from a source close to Rice, or "a source," or "sources." Not league sources, not team sources.

 

But again, the point is that the OTL piece is powered by sources sympathetic to Rice. And where it's not, it's speculation and conjecture, like the suggestion that Bisciotti was lobbying Goodell over golf, based on nothing but the fact that Goodell is a member of a club where Bisciotti played. The article doesn't even dare to claim that Goodell was there when Bisciotti was. Again, Rice sympathizers, and conjecture. 

 

That doesn't mean that the OTL piece is entirely made up, although the Ravens pretty effectively refuted some of its claims. I'm just saying there's an angle and a bias to it, and it falls short of "journalism" because of that.

[The Old Crow]

Yeah, we felt the same here in NE over Hernandez. I still don't understand how a guy in his position who had just played in a Super Bowl with Brady the year prior could ruin his life the way he did. It really does hurt from a football perspective but more from a human perspective.

It will all blow over eventually especially if the Ravens keep winning. I do appreciate you bantering with me back and forth. Like I said, my play here is more the PR and the perception than anything else because I am wired that way with my education and career. I do find human relationships and response fascinating.

Most of us will never understand why guys like Hernandez and Rice, who have everything most of us fans could only dream of, do these kinds of things. These players need to start realizing what a privilege it is to be an NFL player, and their responsibility as role models for kids. We need more Unitas's, Brady's, Manning, Luck , and countless others that are great role models.

Yes, it's just not that much fun when your team is on the stink list. But you have to tell it like it is.

[The Old Crow]

The sources are many and varied. For instance, league sources say Roethlisberger was accompanied by Steelers' staff to his meeting with Goodell. That meets your criteria for "league sources."

However, the supposedly meaty parts of the piece are all powered by Rice sympathizers. For instance, when the article suggests that Harbaugh wanted Rice cut, but Newsome shut that down:

That's not a league source. That's a Ray Rice source. And it runs counter to what the Ravens have always said. So at this point, it's believe who you want, because the two sides are clearly contradictory. And if you choose to discredit the Ravens' side of the story, then that brings into question all so-called Ravens sources.

There are other examples. Virtually anything that is about how the Ravens felt and what they told Rice is either coming from a source close to Rice, or "a source," or "sources." Not league sources, not team sources.

But again, the point is that the OTL piece is powered by sources sympathetic to Rice. And where it's not, it's speculation and conjecture, like the suggestion that Bisciotti was lobbying Goodell over golf, based on nothing but the fact that Goodell is a member of a club where Bisciotti played. The article doesn't even dare to claim that Goodell was there when Bisciotti was. Again, Rice sympathizers, and conjecture.

That doesn't mean that the OTL piece is entirely made up, although the Ravens pretty effectively refuted some of its claims. I'm just saying there's an angle and a bias to it, and it falls short of "journalism" because of that.

Great point about the golf club. That was brought up in the press conference.

[Nadine]

Especially when those unnamed sources supply the most critical points in their story.  It's hard for me to believe the narrative, especially one as big as this, when you're hiding behind unnamed sources.  I get why people give comments on the condition of anonymity, but when you're making such serious accusations - ones later called out by the counter-party as false, no less - the truth and veracity of those comments should be capable of verification.  Even just knowing their names and job titles would go along way in deteriming whether these sources would have actually been people who would have heard what they claim to be hearing.

especially when it trial by public opinion.  If you can inflame public opinion with unnamed sources.......well then heck......anything's possible

[amfootball]

especially when it trial by public opinion.  If you can inflame public opinion with unnamed sources.......well then heck......anything's possible

No writer names his/her sources. That is how investigative reporting is done - under anonymity - or else no stories would be written.

[Nadine]

No writer names his/her sources. That is how investigative reporting is done - under anonymity - or else no stories would be written.

I guess......but when you are being tried by public opinion it's pretty unfair

[amfootball]

I guess......but when you are being tried by public opinion it's pretty unfair

It is not by public opinion.The Ravens mgmt have blunders all over the place here. They are being held accounable for that, first and foremost by their fanbase and ticket holders as it should be. Gosh, I can't think of any situation in any sport that was ever handled as poorly by the league AND team.

[Nadine]

It is not by public opinion.The Ravens mgmt have blunders all over the place here. They are being held accounable for that, first and foremost by their fanbase and ticket holders as it should be. Gosh, I can't think of any situation in any sport that was ever handled as poorly by the league AND team.

In capitalism they vote with their feet, not by crucifying in advance of or in place of the legal system.  you may feel entitled to that but I don't.

[Superman]

It is not by public opinion.The Ravens mgmt have blunders all over the place here. They are being held accounable for that, first and foremost by their fanbase and ticket holders as it should be. Gosh, I can't think of any situation in any sport that was ever handled as poorly by the league AND team.

 

That is the definition of being tried by public opinion.

[OffensivelyPC]

It is not by public opinion.The Ravens mgmt have blunders all over the place here. They are being held accounable for that, first and foremost by their fanbase and ticket holders as it should be. Gosh, I can't think of any situation in any sport that was ever handled as poorly by the league AND team.

This report went far beyond that and is outright suggesting the NFL lied and engaged in a huge cover up about significant parts of the Ray Rice saga.  When part of the discussion is what the NFL knew and when it knew it, making some of hte suggestions that the OTL made amounts to slander if they turned out to be wrong or negligently didn't corroborate what it's "sources" knew.  And that's my problem with this article and the media in general.  Things get misrepresented all the time, if not blatantly falsely reported.  "Well, that's what the source said," and then put it on the victim of the slander to prove it in court (not to mention rack up legal fees) trying to prove something that might not be possible - which in this case, probably is impossible since it will end up being a he said/she said.  And for the average Joe, they're not going to have the ability to pay off the legal fees because the media has enoguh money to drag it out long enough that the case gets with drawn because the plaintiff doesn't have any more money.  Media wins those far more often than people care to know.  How much you want ot bet that a news outlet is going to make an investigative report on plaintiffs who run out of gas on slander lawsuits against news stations?

[OffensivelyPC]

This report went far beyond that and is outright suggesting the NFL lied and engaged in a huge cover up about significant parts of the Ray Rice saga.  When part of the discussion is what the NFL knew and when it knew it, making some of hte suggestions that the OTL made amounts to slander if they turned out to be wrong or negligently didn't corroborate what it's "sources" knew.  And that's my problem with this article and the media in general.  Things get misrepresented all the time, if not blatantly falsely reported.  "Well, that's what the source said," and then put it on the victim of the slander to prove it in court (not to mention rack up legal fees) trying to prove something that might not be possible - which in this case, probably is impossible since it will end up being a he said/she said.  And for the average Joe, they're not going to have the ability to pay off the legal fees because the media has enoguh money to drag it out long enough that the case gets with drawn because the plaintiff doesn't have any more money.  Media wins those far more often than people care to know.  How much you want ot bet that a news outlet is going to make an investigative report on plaintiffs who run out of gas on slander lawsuits against news stations?

Sorry for the ninja edit.  Did it like 5 times, but tried ot be quick about it.

[Surge89]

If I may l, I'd like to point out what I see as the problems here.

1st Ray is/was wrong in his assault

2nd Ray was wrong for not truthfully giving out the entire story (moot point but worth mentioning)

3rd The LEAGUE was wrong in punishing Ray without a suitable policy.

4th The league was wrong for then not following the policy they wrote and suspend Ray for the 6 games as their newly written policy says

5th The league was then also wrong to punish Ray without all evidence nor utilize the commissioners suspended list until all things had surfaced. Of course if they were "attempting" to hide the TMZ video (which is possible, but not likely) then they hold a huge amount of blame.

6th the Ravens were wrong in not pursuing and finding the extent of their representatives wrong doing

7th the Ravens were wrong in allowing everyone else handle the situation with "their" representative (Ray)

So looking at those mistakes I would probably say Ray was over punished, the league has accepted fault and issued policy so a wash, and the Ravens have accepted fault but have not been punished for the massive mishandling of their representative. They have made the most mistakes in this process and seem to be redeemed by a simple press conference, which by the way should never have had Harbaugh become the face of this disaster. This was an organization goof from the top. Harbaugh had no business giving the immediate press coverage as he doesn't have the power in the organization to effect any of the blunders.

So my point is, while yes the Ravens owner is attempting to do something admirable and be a part of the solution with the league he also needs to be held accountable for the countless blunders he continued. There shouldn't be a sorry I messed up and didn't do any part of my job because everyone else should. That is what bothers me.

If Irsay is held to a higher standard then I believe all owners should. And Irsay admitted fault as well. He was punished accordingly and rightfully so.

[The Old Crow]

If I may l, I'd like to point out what I see as the problems here.

1st Ray is/was wrong in his assault

2nd Ray was wrong for not truthfully giving out the entire story (moot point but worth mentioning)

3rd The LEAGUE was wrong in punishing Ray without a suitable policy.

4th The league was wrong for then not following the policy they wrote and suspend Ray for the 6 games as their newly written policy says

5th The league was then also wrong to punish Ray without all evidence nor utilize the commissioners suspended list until all things had surfaced. Of course if they were "attempting" to hide the TMZ video (which is possible, but not likely) then they hold a huge amount of blame.

6th the Ravens were wrong in not pursuing and finding the extent of their representatives wrong doing

7th the Ravens were wrong in allowing everyone else handle the situation with "their" representative (Ray)

So looking at those mistakes I would probably say Ray was over punished, the league has accepted fault and issued policy so a wash, and the Ravens have accepted fault but have not been punished for the massive mishandling of their representative. They have made the most mistakes in this process and seem to be redeemed by a simple press conference, which by the way should never have had Harbaugh become the face of this disaster. This was an organization goof from the top. Harbaugh had no business giving the immediate press coverage as he doesn't have the power in the organization to effect any of the blunders.

So my point is, while yes the Ravens owner is attempting to do something admirable and be a part of the solution with the league he also needs to be held accountable for the countless blunders he continued. There shouldn't be a sorry I messed up and didn't do any part of my job because everyone else should. That is what bothers me.

If Irsay is held to a higher standard then I believe all owners should. And Irsay admitted fault as well. He was punished accordingly and rightfully so.

I think Steve said he would sell the team if he had to. He would probably take a punishment like Irsay did also. Steve admitted the Ravens just didn't do enough, and let others go ahead with the investigation. I would have no trouble with the Ravens owner getting some kind of punishment. You should be more accountable as the leader of an organization. Steve and Ozzie came up short on this one.

[amfootball]

In capitalism they vote with their feet, not by crucifying in advance of or in place of the legal system.  you may feel entitled to that but I don't.

I don't understand your post. Could you please clarify?

[amfootball]

That is the definition of being tried by public opinion.

I don't get this harping on public opinion. Is the public supposed to turn a blind eye? What is it that the public is exactly doing here? No one forced Bisciotti to hold the press conference or to answer 47 questions. He understands as owner that he has a fanbase that is entitled to some answers on the Rice situation which he admitted he handled poorly and made mistakes. If you think this is some type of public cruscade or people wanting heads to roll then I guess you are entitled to your opinion but I disagree. Night and day disagree actually. This is an owner who messed up royally trying to earn back the trust of his fanbase/ticket holders. 

[amfootball]

This report went far beyond that and is outright suggesting the NFL lied and engaged in a huge cover up about significant parts of the Ray Rice saga.  When part of the discussion is what the NFL knew and when it knew it, making some of hte suggestions that the OTL made amounts to slander if they turned out to be wrong or negligently didn't corroborate what it's "sources" knew.  And that's my problem with this article and the media in general.  Things get misrepresented all the time, if not blatantly falsely reported.  "Well, that's what the source said," and then put it on the victim of the slander to prove it in court (not to mention rack up legal fees) trying to prove something that might not be possible - which in this case, probably is impossible since it will end up being a he said/she said.  And for the average Joe, they're not going to have the ability to pay off the legal fees because the media has enoguh money to drag it out long enough that the case gets with drawn because the plaintiff doesn't have any more money.  Media wins those far more often than people care to know.  How much you want ot bet that a news outlet is going to make an investigative report on plaintiffs who run out of gas on slander lawsuits against news stations?

This is the thing though, in journalism, all your credibility is based on reporting the truth as it is told to you by your sources. Case in point, Jon Tomasse erroneously reported that the Pats taped the walk through of the Rams SB practice forcing the Boston Herald to print this public back page apology, http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2008/05/boston-herald-apologizes-to-patriots-is-it-enough

 

The apology was issued because Kraft did threaten to sue the Herald for defamation. So you are right. This is serious, serious business for ESPN. And they know that, Their sources better be air tight and correct or else they will face lawsuits from the NFL and the Ravens. That is why I am inclined to believe their report. They know/knew the consequences of printing such a pointed report.

[ViriLudant]

I guess......but when you are being tried by public opinion it's pretty unfair

It has to be that way, otherwise if a source knows that he/she will be named, and will then have to deal with that public scrutiny, no source would ever come forward.

[Nadine]

It has to be that way, otherwise if a source knows that he/she will be named, and will then have to deal with that public scrutiny, no source would ever come forward.

But in this day and age with the internet and how quickly these things spiral, it's unfair because people seem to want to supplant the legal system which gives the defendant the right to face their accuser.

 

If fans want fan justice in advance of that, a lot of mistakes can be made

 

I don't understand why some fans feel entitled to do this or how they can feel that they have sufficient evidence to try and convict people based on what they've seen on the internet.

 

 

It's creepy

[Nadine]

I don't understand your post. Could you please clarify?

Yes, fans are entitled to vote with their feet.  To walk away in other words.......to stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop paying into an industry that they find objectionable.

 

You sound as though you feel that that is not enough, that you are entitled to call for actions against people before, and above and beyond what the organization and the legal system (who presumably know more than fans do because fans get their information from unnamed and unknown sources) will administer.

[John Dee]

My definition of being tried by PC folk...      About time.

 

The NFL is LOADED with just bad people who are continually put in front of US as "role models" ..  "hero's"   seriously? 

 

IMO the general public is just sick of Jerk behavior getting overlooked.    PERIOD.

 

Accountability..     My job depends on it.  ..    Why shouldn't theirs ..  ?   I think common folk have spoken... 

 

They are just sick and tired of the "entitled" athlete. .    and I am one of them ....  

That is the definition of being tried by public opinion.

[Nadine]

My definition of being tried by PC folk...      About time.

 

The NFL is LOADED with just bad people who are continually put in front of US as "role models" ..  "hero's"   seriously? 

 

IMO the general public is just sick of Jerk behavior getting overlooked.    PERIOD.

 

Accountability..     My job depends on it.  ..    Why shouldn't theirs ..  ?   I think common folk have spoken... 

 

They are just sick and tired of the "entitled" athlete. .    and I am one of them ....  

First, just because you don't share an opinion does not mean it's 'PC'

 

Second, Guilty until proven otherwise for everyone but you?

[John Dee]

Fair enough...    heheee...

 

But.....................

 

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES..... 

 

First, just because you don't share an opinion does not mean it's 'PC'

 

Second, Guilty until proven otherwise for everyone but you?

[The Old Crow]

I don't get this harping on public opinion. Is the public supposed to turn a blind eye? What is it that the public is exactly doing here? No one forced Bisciotti to hold the press conference or to answer 47 questions. He understands as owner that he has a fanbase that is entitled to some answers on the Rice situation which he admitted he handled poorly and made mistakes. If you think this is some type of public cruscade or people wanting heads to roll then I guess you are entitled to your opinion but I disagree. Night and day disagree actually. This is an owner who messed up royally trying to earn back the trust of his fanbase/ticket holders.

No he didn't . Baltimore has rallied around Steve. He destroyed the press. If you look at Van Natta's other stories like Penn State, he fills all these articles regularly with anonymous sources. This is how far journalism has fallen.

[amfootball]

Yes, fans are entitled to vote with their feet.  To walk away in other words.......to stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop paying into an industry that they find objectionable.

 

You sound as though you feel that that is not enough, that you are entitled to call for actions against people before, and above and beyond what the organization and the legal system (who presumably know more than fans do because fans get their information from unnamed and unknown sources) will administer.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I am not sure where you got my point of view but it is incorrect. In terms of the league or the Ravens or the Vikings for that matter, my views are always related to relationships and responses. My biggest issue with the league from the get go before the Rice situation ever surfaced was its inability to define its own moral law. I actually agree with your last sentence. I think once the league decided it was going to be Joe Law it left itself vulnerable when it didn't define its law and then administered it inconsistently. That is what is on display in spades in the Rice situation. Goodell made his own call based on the information he got which did not include, according to him, viewing the second tape. He then handed down a two game suspension based on his own criteria for judging both Ray and the incident and then looked like a fool when the second tape was aired and he responded by an indefinite suspension. This is the issue here. The NFL HAS to define its moral law and then stick to it. The fans, the public. the tix holders have every right to be upset with the handling of the situations over the past month. In terms of the Ravens, they always HAD the power to suspend Rice prior to the Commish's penalty. For the owner to now say he really thought Rice would get 4-6 games is preposterous. He obviously felt Rice deserved to be suspended more than two games but failed to suspend as HIS owner. That is a horrible incompetence on his part and now of course has been fueled by ESPN and its report that shows he may have been disingenuous with his dealings with Rice on many levels.

 

So again, my thoughts on this are always from a PR and perception standpoint as I was educated and worked in this area of managing public perception. Honestly, I never thought I would see a day where so many elementary mistakes would made by so many executives in the NFL of all leagues who had a great rep previously.

 

I honestly don't know what the punishments should be for anyone involved but I certainly do not blame the public for being upset or feel it is some public crusade going on here. Major gaffes, possible lying and cover ups were made at every turn on the handling of a very serious issue and the public wants and deserves answers IMO.

[John Dee]

You kind of sound like an NFL shill ...

 

oh...      of course not.. 

 

NEVERMIND  

 

R GODell   "ignorance is not an excuse"  ?   Seriously?    

 

First, just because you don't share an opinion does not mean it's 'PC'

 

Second, Guilty until proven otherwise for everyone but you?

[The Old Crow]

Yes, fans are entitled to vote with their feet. To walk away in other words.......to stop watching, stop buying tickets and stop paying into an industry that they find objectionable.

You sound as though you feel that that is not enough, that you are entitled to call for actions against people before, and above and beyond what the organization and the legal system (who presumably know more than fans do because fans get their information from unnamed and unknown sources) will administer.

Just for the record, fans in Baltimore are turning in some Rice jerseys, but not Raven's tickets . You are right, public opinion in Baltimore is not calling for Steve or Ozzie's head. Bisciotti handled everything at the press conference, and the fans are ready to move on, like all fan bases when their organization goes through an embarrassing episode. You can already see ESPN sleaking backwards after being confronted. No matter how many facts Bisciotti gets out to set the record straight, apologizes for the organization not handling things better, some people will never be satisfied. Most of these people have outside special interests and operate in the any crisis is a good crisis mentality. These people you will never please.

[John Dee]

I am not trying to get banned but this entire fiasco is totally comical. 

 

The NFL just does  NOT get it .   

 

They run the show and we watch......   PERIOD.      Big money mentality. 

 

 

 

OK rant over ...     I'm done... 

[Nadine]

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I am not sure where you got my point of view but it is incorrect. In terms of the league or the Ravens or the Vikings for that matter, my views are always related to relationships and responses. My biggest issue with the league from the get go before the Rice situation ever surfaced was its inability to define its own moral law. I actually agree with your last sentence. I think once the league decided it was going to be Joe Law it left itself vulnerable when it didn't define its law and then administered it inconsistently. That is what is on display in spades in the Rice situation. Goodell made his own call based on the information he got which did not include, according to him, viewing the second tape. He then handed down a two game suspension based on his own criteria for judging both Ray and the incident and then looked like a fool when the second tape was aired and he responded by an indefinite suspension. This is the issue here. The NFL HAS to define its moral law and then stick to it. The fans, the public. the tix holders have every right to be upset with the handling of the situations over the past month. In terms of the Ravens, they always HAD the power to suspend Rice prior to the Commish's penalty. For the owner to now say he really thought Rice would get 4-6 games is preposterous. He obviously felt Rice deserved to be suspended more than two games but failed to suspend as HIS owner. That is a horrible incompetence on his part and now of course has been fueled by ESPN and its report that shows he may have been disingenuous with his dealings with Rice on many levels.

 

So again, my thoughts on this are always from a PR and perception standpoint as I was educated and worked in this area of managing public perception. Honestly, I never thought I would see a day where so many elementary mistakes would made by so many executives in the NFL of all leagues who had a great rep previously.

 

I honestly don't know what the punishments should be for anyone involved but I certainly do not blame the public for being upset or feel it is some public crusade going on here. Major gaffes, possible lying and cover ups were made at every turn on the handling of a very serious issue and the public wants and deserves answers IMO.

Gotcha

 

What I object to is the notion that things will always be black and white.  They won't.

Personally, something seems sketch here to me but I am not black and white certain exactly what went on.

I like a conduct policy and certainly domestic violence and child abuse should be included in that policy.

Public perception and public opinion should play a role.  The NFL does not want the perception that they trivialize domestic violence issues and here we have the perception that they have.

 

Beyond that, if fans are not satisfied that these issues have been dealt with sufficiently, they are free to impact the industry by continuing to talk about it and by refusing to pay into it.

 

Beyond that, they have no entitlements.  

[Nadine]

You kind of sound like an NFL shill ...

 

oh...      of course not.. 

 

NEVERMIND  

 

R GODell   "ignorance is not an excuse"  ?   Seriously?    

John I'm not saying that things don't look suspicious, they do

 

I'm saying we don't know for certain who said or did what.  Everybody is pointing fingers at everyone else.

It's sketch for sure

 

If I sound like an NFL 'shill' to you so be it.  

 

It is weird to me that people want their anger sated somehow other than refusing to pay into the game.  

[The Old Crow]

This is the thing though, in journalism, all your credibility is based on reporting the truth as it is told to you by your sources. Case in point, Jon Tomasse erroneously reported that the Pats taped the walk through of the Rams SB practice forcing the Boston Herald to print this public back page apology, http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2008/05/boston-herald-apologizes-to-patriots-is-it-enough

The apology was issued because Kraft did threaten to sue the Herald for defamation. So you are right. This is serious, serious business for ESPN. And they know that, Their sources better be air tight and correct or else they will face lawsuits from the NFL and the Ravens. That is why I am inclined to believe their report. They know/knew the consequences of printing such a pointed report.

How can the sources be air tight when you can't confront them. This journalist shows a pattern in the use of anonymous sources. They are air tight when others can collaborate the story through named , factual sources. I find it astounding the Ravens and Bisciotti have to put everything in writing and on the record to satisfy the the special interest public opinion types , while Van Natta just falls back on his unimpeachable unnamed sources when asked tough questions. I heard him on Mike and Mike and he just goes on about these sources, and how the Ravens should have done more to get the tape. But what the heck, Bisciotti had already admitted and apologized for that in a letter to Ravens fans two weeks before this shoddy piece came out ! The guy had no answers to the press conference except for sources that may have a hidden or real agenda, or were just flat out wrong. We will never know because we can't question their assertions like what Bisciotti had to go through yesterday.

[Nadine]

I am not trying to get banned but this entire fiasco is totally comical. 

 

The NFL just does  NOT get it .   

 

They run the show and we watch......   PERIOD.      Big money mentality. 

 

 

 

OK rant over ...     I'm done... 

 

My perception in this case is colored by fans dividing along team lines.  

 

People will defend the team that is 'theirs' and fans of other teams will demand justice in large part because the team is not theirs and I personally think also because they enjoy seeing other teams 'pay'.  This will be something that fans of other teams will throw in Ravens fans faces for some time........because fans like doing that.

 

I'm saying there are forces that play into this beyond the facts in the matter.

 

It's like fandom extends to management and missteps.  That's creepy to me

 

It's like management has become part of the spectator sport.......personal lives have become part of the spectator sport, and people feel entitled to actions that they would not feel appropriate for themselves.

 

It's just weird to me