Denver CB Harris says Wilson is better than Luck [Merge]

[House]

Actually Pats fans get a good laugh out of the Spygate crowd.

And people can say what they like about Brady. Pats fans know football and are quite secure.

Yeah all the Pats fans on here love when Spygate is mention. Clearly.

[Vance]

How is this thread not about Brady vs Manning yet? You guys are losing your edge.

[thedude]

They are trying to move it in that direction.

[Jason_]

especially considering the entire staff was fired at seasons end

 

[Dustin]

We found the mastermind.

[Superman]

Gotcha. But still there is the possibility to do it in football or any other sport. I actually think it goes on far more than we realize. Owners and GMs are smart people. They know how much "the guy" will not only help them win but also be a marketing gold mind especially in a sport like football which is the most popular.

 

There's a difference between wanting Andrew Luck (duh, who wouldn't want Andrew Luck?) and purposely losing games to get him. One is common sense, the other is completely contrary to the competitive balance the league strives to maintain. 

[amfootball]

There's a difference between wanting Andrew Luck (duh, who wouldn't want Andrew Luck?) and purposely losing games to get him. One is common sense, the other is completely contrary to the competitive balance the league strives to maintain. 

I agree but it goes on in every sport.

[Superman]

I agree but it goes on in every sport.

 

I'm sorry, but you have to prove a claim like that. Your own incredulity isn't proof.

[amfootball]

I'm sorry, but you have to prove a claim like that. Your own incredulity isn't proof.

You and this proof. Ay! Look, no team is going to come out and say they are doing it. We all know this. But at times the handwriting is on the wall. Read Yehoodi's posts a few pages back. He did a nice job showcasing it happening both in the NBA with the spurs and NHL with the penguins.

[Fx Stryker]

I didn't read the whole thread.

Luck is far more better than Wilson.

First year - played most of the season with no head coach - 11 games won

2nd year- lots of players injured, no Reggie Wayne - 11 games won

No defense, a blah running game. Luck is carrying the team on his back and did so for the last 2 years

Yea no head coach. Just the coach of the year. Sorry I just see this as a silly reason to say why he is better.

[Superman]

You and this proof. Ay! Look, no team is going to come out and say they are doing it. We all know this. But at times the handwriting is on the wall. Read Yehoodi's posts a few pages back. He did a nice job showcasing it happening both in the NBA with the spurs and NHL with the penguins.

 

Criminals don't usually confess their crimes. You have to prove it.

 

I think if you make a claim like this, you should be able to prove it. I don't see what's so unreasonable about that. I know you've stated several times that this is just your opinion, and that's fair. But you've gone right back to stating it as fact (see above: "it goes on in every sport," as if this is a foregone conclusion that everyone should accept). 

 

Take any NFL team, not just the 2011 Colts, and prove that they purposely tanked games (whether it happens in other leagues isn't really material, as those leagues are vastly different and entirely separate from the NFL). Present some evidence that hasn't already been debunked. Make a real case for this.

 

Or not. I'm just saying, like I've always said, that just because you believe something in your heart of hearts doesn't make it true. That's why claims need to be proved. And appeals to authority, appeals to the majority, black-or-white propositions, straw man arguments, etc., are not evidence, and certainly don't prove anything.

[amfootball]

Criminals don't usually confess their crimes. You have to prove it.

 

I think if you make a claim like this, you should be able to prove it. I don't see what's so unreasonable about that. I know you've stated several times that this is just your opinion, and that's fair. But you've gone right back to stating it as fact (see above: "it goes on in every sport," as if this is a foregone conclusion that everyone should accept). 

 

Take any NFL team, not just the 2011 Colts, and prove that they purposely tanked games (whether it happens in other leagues isn't really material, as those leagues are vastly different and entirely separate from the NFL). Present some evidence that hasn't already been debunked. Make a real case for this.

 

Or not. I'm just saying, like I've always said, that just because you believe something in your heart of hearts doesn't make it true. That's why claims need to be proved. And appeals to authority, appeals to the majority, black-or-white propositions, straw man arguments, etc., are not evidence, and certainly don't prove anything.

I have stated ad nauseam my reasons for believing why the Colts tanked (you disagree and that is fine) and as I said, Yehoodi made strong cases for both the Spurs in the NBA and the Penguins in the NHL. I agree with him as well. You can choose to believe that tanking has never gone in professional sports if you want because all that will satisfy you is if an org admits which will never happen. You can live within that utopia if you want but I believe otherwise. We can just leave it at that. It really does not bother me that much.

[TAPLOOK]

I didn't read the whole thread.

 

Luck is far more better than Wilson.

 

First year - played most of the season with no head coach - 11 games won

2nd year-  lots of players injured, no Reggie Wayne - 11 games won

 

No defense, a blah running game. Luck is carrying the team on his back and did so for the last 2 years

 

 

That settles it. Time to close the thread.

[Superman]

I have stated ad nauseam my reasons for believing why the Colts tanked (you disagree and that is fine) and as I said, Yehoodi made strong cases for both the Spurs in the NBA and the Penguins in the NHL. I agree with him as well. You can choose to believe that tanking has never gone in professional sports if you want because all that will satisfy you is if an org admits which will never happen. You can live within that utopia if you want but I believe otherwise. We can just leave it at that. It really does not bother me that much not sure why it bothers you so much.

 

To the first bolded, like I said, present some evidence that hasn't already been debunked. 

 

To the second bolded, neither the Spurs nor the Penguins play in the NFL.

 

To the third, I'm asking for evidence related to any NFL team. Even if tanking happens in other leagues, that doesn't mean it happens in all leagues. Just prove that it has ever happened in the NFL.

 

Fourth, I don't need the organization to admit it. That's silly, and is completely ignoring what I said. Again, criminals don't always admit their wrongs. I'm asking you to build a case that's based on something more than supposition and logical fallacies.

 

Lastly, as I said earlier, you keep stating this as if it's verified fact. As long as you do that, I'll ask you to prove it.

[amfootball]

To the first bolded, like I said, present some evidence that hasn't already been debunked. 

 

To the second bolded, neither the Spurs nor the Penguins play in the NFL.

 

To the third, I'm asking for evidence related to any NFL team. Even if tanking happens in other leagues, that doesn't mean it happens in all leagues. Just prove that it has ever happened in the NFL.

 

Fourth, I don't need the organization to admit it. That's silly, and is completely ignoring what I said. Again, criminals don't always admit their wrongs. I'm asking you to build a case that's based on something more than supposition and logical fallacies.

 

Lastly, as I said earlier, you keep stating this as if it's verified fact. As long as you do that, I'll ask you to prove it.

To the first bolded - lol. nothing has been debunked.

 

So you are willing to admit that the other pro leagues tank but not the NFL? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

 

To the bolded second - I keep saying it is MY opinion. You choose to read that as fact. I have no idea why.

[Jason_]

I agree but it goes on in every sport. - a stated fact

 

I agree but I bet it goes on in every sport. - a stated opinion

[Superman]

To the first bolded - lol. nothing has been debunked.

 

So you are willing to admit that the other pro leagues tank but not the NFL? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

 

To the bolded second - I keep saying it is MY opinion. You choose to read that as fact. I have no idea why.

 

Actually, it's all been debunked. Summarily.

 

I didn't admit anything about other pro leagues. I said they are immaterial. If teams in other pro leagues have tanked, that proves nothing about the NFL. If teams in other pro leagues haven't tanked, that proves nothing about the NFL. They are in other, different, separate leagues. 

 

You have a way of stating your opinion as if it's verified fact, ie, "it goes on in every sport." Again, as long as you do that, I'm going to ask you to prove your claim.

[amfootball]

Actually, it's all been debunked. Summarily.

 

I didn't admit anything about other pro leagues. I said they are immaterial. If teams in other pro leagues have tanked, that proves nothing about the NFL. If teams in other pro leagues haven't tanked, that proves nothing about the NFL. They are in other, different, separate leagues. 

 

You have a way of stating your opinion as if it's verified fact, ie, "it goes on in every sport." Again, as long as you do that, I'm going to ask you to prove your claim.

It has not been debunked at all but rather enforced IMO. I will use "IMO' from now on so there is not confusion about opinion vs fact.

 

The 2011 Colts are the best NFL example IMO or should I say "the most obvious" IMO similar to the Spurs in b-ball and the Penguins in the NHL, again IMO.

[Superman]

It has not been debunked at all but rather enforced IMO. I will use "IMO' from now on so there is not confusion about opinion vs fact.

 

The 2011 Colts are the best NFL example IMO or should I say "the most obvious" IMO similar to the Spurs in b-ball and the Penguins in the NHL, again IMO.

 

That's rich. Like, double chocolate mousse mixed with chocolate sauce, rich. 

 

But yes, if you had said "IMO," I wouldn't have gone down this road.

 

Last thing, every so-called evidence regarding the 2011 Colts has been debunked, as none of them stand up to even the smallest amount of scrutiny. Every single argument in favor of the tanking claim is based on conjecture, and they all evaporate like dew on the grass, just as soon as you shed a little bit of light on them. Anyone can go back and read the debate in this very thread to see this in action, or go back to the many threads on this over the last two years, and it will be very obvious. 

[amfootball]

That's rich. Like, double chocolate mousse mixed with chocolate sauce, rich. 

 

 

Sounds yummy.

[thedude]

I agree but it goes on in every sport.

No it doesn't.

[Clem-Dog]

Just like Washington tanked for RG3.... Oh wait.

Also it is worthless to tank in the NBA anymore. There is a reason why some leagues device systems to discourage this practice. The NFL has never had to worry about this.

[thedude]

Wilson just wrote an interesting story for Derek Jeter's new web site.