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Mr Irsay's dilemma....


bluephantom87

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Sometimes TOUGH decisions have to be made. Like starting over with Luck vs a few more with Peyton CARRYING a suspect coaching staff and a team who's talent level was on the steady DECLINE from picks by the gm who had seen better days. Sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling right or wrong. An unknown Brady KEEPING the job once Bledsoe was healthy, Russell Wilson over Matt Flynn (EVEN though the birds had paid big in FA to aquire him), bringing in an offensive GURU (Kelly) from college to replace Andy Reid etc. Along the way you ALSO must see mistakes and correct them quickly!! In the beginning (the much hyped) Peyton had Tom Moore as oc and Bruce as his qb coach that ALLOWED him to make MISTAKES, (27 ints rookie season) learn from them and GROW into the juggernaut he is today. The defense was horrible then too but the team realized Peyton attacking defenses was the BEST option to win. I believe in Grigs but this coaching staff is LACKLUSTER and is starting to take fire on the national level as far as playcalling and what is their identity? Chuck gets NO free pass because you take away Bruce's wins and you have an avg coach who is supposed to be an defensive whiz. (I'm not seeing it) Did Chuck simply INHERIT what Marvin Lewis and Rex passed to him as previous dc's of the Ravens because BOTH built defenses at their next stops. Chuck handpicked these defensive players in FA and had a hand in the draft on that side of the ball to fit his "aggressive" scheme. This is year THREE and the defense can't stop ANYBODY or apply any pressure outside of Mathis who was ALREADY here before Chuck. As the hc take a look at his staff - a dc who's lost his jobs at previous stops for being too vanilla and an oc who DIDN'T call plays in college (Shaw the hc did) to come into the N F L and learn on the job (at Luck's expense) with this NON innovative offense that has no flow. Can you imagine what a Sean Payton type could do designing plays for Luck, Reggie, Nicks, TY, Allen, Fleener, Bradshaw and the young wr's NOT playing? Trent did ok last game but still doesn't justify the 1st rd pick given up for him. (the Browns realized that early) Philly ONLY gave up a 5th rd for Sproles! Yes Luck threw the pick in the end but CAN THE DEFENSE STOP ANYONE FROM going 70yds and SCORING a TD followed by ANOTHER fg!!! Bruce has MOXIE ask the Steelers or Arizona now. This staff is subpar and to strive for GREATNESS changes sometimes have to be made SOONER than LATER. 

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     I'm not sure I'm ready for any sweeping coaching changes (not sure that is what the OP was suggesting) but I also think it is absolutely reasonable to be concerned right now.  I like Pagano and co.'s vision and love the enthusiasm but it definitely hasn't come together yet.  Its more than fair to question why the philosophy doesn't fit the pieces and why the team lacks an identity on either side of the ball.  However, It's equally important to remember this is week two.  A lot of things are gonna happen between now and the playoffs.  I think its fine to wonder wth is going on but its probably best to wait and see how the season plays out before we start to give up on the staff.

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When people say fire Pep or Mac... I don't understand why Chuck gets a pass. Pep was in over his head from the beginning!! Here's a guy coming from a power running team in the Pac-10 that by most accounts DIDN'T even call the plays get his ON THE JOB TRAINING at the NFL level are you serious? Mac is who he is and that WILL not change. When NATIONAL sports media consisting of former coaches and players (some HOFs) start to have questions about playcalling on BOTH sides of the ball as well as about the players being under utilized with their skillset then there is a problem that falls squarely on the COACHES. IF my best chance to WIN is to keep lighting up the scoreboard because my defense is suspect INSTEAD of trying to play keep away with a small lead then so be it. IF my best chance on offense to score THOSE points is to be an up tempo spread style to get the ball in playmaker's hands so be it. If I can't generate a pass rush then I manufacture one with timed blitzes instead of standing pat!  

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     I'm not sure I'm ready for any sweeping coaching changes (not sure that is what the OP was suggesting) but I also think it is absolutely reasonable to be concerned right now.  I like Pagano and co.'s vision and love the enthusiasm but it definitely hasn't come together yet.  Its more than fair to question why the philosophy doesn't fit the pieces and why the team lacks an identity on either side of the ball.  However, It's equally important to remember this is week two.  A lot of things are gonna happen between now and the playoffs.  I think its fine to wonder wth is going on but its probably best to wait and see how the season plays out before we start to give up on the staff.

 

 

Week two is gone. This is week three.

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When people say fire Pep or Mac... I don't understand why Chuck gets a pass. Pep was in over his head from the beginning!! Here's a guy coming from a power running team in the Pac-10 that by most accounts DIDN'T even call the plays get his ON THE JOB TRAINING at the NFL level are you serious? Mac is who he is and that WILL not change. When NATIONAL sports media consisting of former coaches and players (some HOFs) start to have questions about playcalling on BOTH sides of the ball as well as about the players being under utilized with their skillset then there is a problem that falls squarely on the COACHES. IF my best chance to WIN is to keep lighting up the scoreboard because my defense is suspect INSTEAD of trying to play keep away with a small lead then so be it. IF my best chance on offense to score THOSE points is to be an up tempo spread style to get the ball in playmaker's hands so be it. If I can't generate a pass rush then I manufacture one with timed blitzes instead of standing pat!

I want them all gone

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Sometimes TOUGH decisions have to be made. Like starting over with Luck vs a few more with Peyton CARRYING a suspect coaching staff and a team who's talent level was on the steady DECLINE from picks by the gm who had seen better days. Sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling right or wrong. An unknown Brady KEEPING the job once Bledsoe was healthy, Russell Wilson over Matt Flynn (EVEN though the birds had paid big in FA to aquire him), bringing in an offensive GURU (Kelly) from college to replace Andy Reid etc. Along the way you ALSO must see mistakes and correct them quickly!! In the beginning (the much hyped) Peyton had Tom Moore as oc and Bruce as his qb coach that ALLOWED him to make MISTAKES, (27 ints rookie season) learn from them and GROW into the juggernaut he is today. The defense was horrible then too but the team realized Peyton attacking defenses was the BEST option to win. I believe in Grigs but this coaching staff is LACKLUSTER and is starting to take fire on the national level as far as playcalling and what is their identity? Chuck gets NO free pass because you take away Bruce's wins and you have an avg coach who is supposed to be an defensive whiz. (I'm not seeing it) Did Chuck simply INHERIT what Marvin Lewis and Rex passed to him as previous dc's of the Ravens because BOTH built defenses at their next stops. Chuck handpicked these defensive players in FA and had a hand in the draft on that side of the ball to fit his "aggressive" scheme. This is year THREE and the defense can't stop ANYBODY or apply any pressure outside of Mathis who was ALREADY here before Chuck. As the hc take a look at his staff - a dc who's lost his jobs at previous stops for being too vanilla and an oc who DIDN'T call plays in college (Shaw the hc did) to come into the N F L and learn on the job (at Luck's expense) with this NON innovative offense that has no flow. Can you imagine what a Sean Payton type could do designing plays for Luck, Reggie, Nicks, TY, Allen, Fleener, Bradshaw and the young wr's NOT playing? Trent did ok last game but still doesn't justify the 1st rd pick given up for him. (the Browns realized that early) Philly ONLY gave up a 5th rd for Sproles! Yes Luck threw the pick in the end but CAN THE DEFENSE STOP ANYONE FROM going 70yds and SCORING a TD followed by ANOTHER fg!!! Bruce has MOXIE ask the Steelers or Arizona now. This staff is subpar and to strive for GREATNESS changes sometimes have to be made SOONER than LATER. 

 

 I am concerned with Andrews very slow developement as a pocket passer.

 I do wonder about our O-Line coaching.

 But,

 Nope! Irsay paid Freeney $14M so Grigson went low rent with Satele & McGlynn and...

 Nope! Grigson let Hughes go and doubled the $alary to bring in Walden.

 Nope! Grigson had HUGE flexibility the last 2 seasons to sign a FA pass rusher. Grade F.

 

 You like Landry?

 You like DQ Jackson?

 You like Adams?

 Sorry, but we are scre--- for this season with the them.

 

  I don`t know what Peps POTENTIAL is, but he was given a very bad deck in year one and needs AT Least half a season to get  Andrew passing at a much higher level with all these young receivers and this Very Mediocre, Young,  O-Line.

 I mean did you see those Quality pulls we got from Thornton. Not seen here since lilja & Scott, IMO.

 Doyle doing a good job looking like Dilger out there, for one game. ;-)

  TRich is lost when it comes to knowing where to cut, he ain`t No Edge and it is a killer, so we just try to get better all around him. 

  Lots of stinko coming till Andrew learns how to get rid of the ball and hitting guys in the #`s.

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I would criticize the fans that want coaches gone after 2 weeks when they've had success.. but after seeing the fire Bruce Arian threads from the Cardinals fans last season among every other team's fans besides the Seahawks wanted their coaches fired. I swear if the fans got their way, everyone would be swapping coaches.

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I mean this guy is going overboard with his rant. But I like Pagano I do agree on getting a new OC and DC sometime. I wouldn't mind Chud taking over now but wait to see if Manusky improves the rest of the year if not can him after the season

Lol... so you like the guy who is conservative, has questionable game management, has forced players in lineups (Satele, Richardson), but you don't like the OC who lowered our offensive mistakes and upped their efficiency (without pretty much everyone last year) and the DC who without 2 of his best players kept us in the game with the 2 top offense's in the NFL?

Good lord does anyone just stop relax and take a breath on this forum?

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I think this forum will be calling for heads on platters if this team doesn't beat the Jaguars.

 

But, lets be honest.....that would be pretty pathetic if we can't beat the Jaguars lol. Denver/Philly were obvious challenges and even reporters I have read from a few newspapers in other parts of the country have said the Colts got a bit screwed by the Eagles with the refs. As if we are 1-1 but not really........

 

As for firing anyone. I think Irsay might think hard if this team say finished 6-10 or something. I don't know really. 

 

I am concerned over Pep at times more then anyone and I will leave it at that for now. Time will tell.

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I think this forum will be calling for heads on platters if this team doesn't beat the Jaguars.

 

But, lets be honest.....that would be pretty pathetic if we can't beat the Jaguars lol. Denver/Philly were obvious challenges and even reporters I have read from a few newspapers in other parts of the country have said the Colts got a bit screwed by the Eagles with the refs. As if we are 1-1 but not really........

 

As for firing anyone. I think Irsay might think hard if this team say finished 6-10 or something. I don't know really. 

 

I am concerned over Pep at times more then anyone and I will leave it at that for now. Time will tell.

 

I think this forum will be calling for heads on platters if this team doesn't beat the Jaguars.

 

But, lets be honest.....that would be pretty pathetic if we can't beat the Jaguars lol. Denver/Philly were obvious challenges and even reporters I have read from a few newspapers in other parts of the country have said the Colts got a bit screwed by the Eagles with the refs. As if we are 1-1 but not really........

 

As for firing anyone. I think Irsay might think hard if this team say finished 6-10 or something. I don't know really. 

 

I am concerned over Pep at times more then anyone and I will leave it at that for now. Time will tell.

I think this forum has become a cesspool of negativity, who cares what head they call for. There is no basis of validity....only selfish whining.

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I think this forum has become a cesspool of negativity, who cares what head they call for. There is no basis of validity....only selfish whining.

This is a message board about Colts football!!! Some will agree on certain points SOME will not. Like anything in life you will be evaluated in some form or another fair or not. (job performance, personal conduct etc.) I'm sure Chuck, Pep and Mac are ALL upstanding citizens (like Tony D and Caldwell before them) but THIS conversation is based on COACHING STYLE, PLAYCALLING and SCHEMES vs. PERSONNEL and TALENT AT HAND!!! If my or ANYONE else's OPINION is different from yours THEN SO BE IT!! When I START reading a thread I don't agree with I either go on to the NEXT one or I keep reading to see DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS or angles. I don't know ANYONE'S background on this board. Some MIGHT be more QUALIFIED than others to talk football (former players or coaches at any level etc.) but at the end of the day MOST are Colt fans and have a PASSION for their team. I will say again when national sports media start using words like trust in "this" staff as far as playcalling and schemes ESPECIALLY when concerning the use of Luck or "perceived"  bust status of T Rich. (who did ok last week) Make no mistake about it IF the Colts lay an egg or STRUGGLE against the PITIFUL Jags; then you won't have to worry the "perceived" negativity on THIS board because you will have to turn off your tv from ALL the heat this STAFF will take from sports media.   P.S  The whole dilemma is do you hold on to this staff too long (like the Polian years) or do you make CHANGES for the better of Luck and the team. Keep in mind the previous regime also won but some felt (including the OWNER) they wasted some of Peyton's best years with coservative play in the playoffs where as THIS STAFF uses that type of play in the REGULAR season.

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Sometimes TOUGH decisions have to be made. Like starting over with Luck vs a few more with Peyton CARRYING a suspect coaching staff and a team who's talent level was on the steady DECLINE from picks by the gm who had seen better days. Sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling right or wrong. An unknown Brady KEEPING the job once Bledsoe was healthy, Russell Wilson over Matt Flynn (EVEN though the birds had paid big in FA to aquire him), bringing in an offensive GURU (Kelly) from college to replace Andy Reid etc. Along the way you ALSO must see mistakes and correct them quickly!! In the beginning (the much hyped) Peyton had Tom Moore as oc and Bruce as his qb coach that ALLOWED him to make MISTAKES, (27 ints rookie season) learn from them and GROW into the juggernaut he is today. The defense was horrible then too but the team realized Peyton attacking defenses was the BEST option to win. I believe in Grigs but this coaching staff is LACKLUSTER and is starting to take fire on the national level as far as playcalling and what is their identity? Chuck gets NO free pass because you take away Bruce's wins and you have an avg coach who is supposed to be an defensive whiz. (I'm not seeing it) Did Chuck simply INHERIT what Marvin Lewis and Rex passed to him as previous dc's of the Ravens because BOTH built defenses at their next stops. Chuck handpicked these defensive players in FA and had a hand in the draft on that side of the ball to fit his "aggressive" scheme. This is year THREE and the defense can't stop ANYBODY or apply any pressure outside of Mathis who was ALREADY here before Chuck. As the hc take a look at his staff - a dc who's lost his jobs at previous stops for being too vanilla and an oc who DIDN'T call plays in college (Shaw the hc did) to come into the N F L and learn on the job (at Luck's expense) with this NON innovative offense that has no flow. Can you imagine what a Sean Payton type could do designing plays for Luck, Reggie, Nicks, TY, Allen, Fleener, Bradshaw and the young wr's NOT playing? Trent did ok last game but still doesn't justify the 1st rd pick given up for him. (the Browns realized that early) Philly ONLY gave up a 5th rd for Sproles! Yes Luck threw the pick in the end but CAN THE DEFENSE STOP ANYONE FROM going 70yds and SCORING a TD followed by ANOTHER fg!!! Bruce has MOXIE ask the Steelers or Arizona now. This staff is subpar and to strive for GREATNESS changes sometimes have to be made SOONER than LATER. 

 

 

When people say fire Pep or Mac... I don't understand why Chuck gets a pass. Pep was in over his head from the beginning!! Here's a guy coming from a power running team in the Pac-10 that by most accounts DIDN'T even call the plays get his ON THE JOB TRAINING at the NFL level are you serious? Mac is who he is and that WILL not change. When NATIONAL sports media consisting of former coaches and players (some HOFs) start to have questions about playcalling on BOTH sides of the ball as well as about the players being under utilized with their skillset then there is a problem that falls squarely on the COACHES. IF my best chance to WIN is to keep lighting up the scoreboard because my defense is suspect INSTEAD of trying to play keep away with a small lead then so be it. IF my best chance on offense to score THOSE points is to be an up tempo spread style to get the ball in playmaker's hands so be it. If I can't generate a pass rush then I manufacture one with timed blitzes instead of standing pat!  

 

 

This is a message board about Colts football!!! Some will agree on certain points SOME will not. Like anything in life you will be evaluated in some form or another fair or not. (job performance, personal conduct etc.) I'm sure Chuck, Pep and Mac are ALL upstanding citizens (like Tony D and Caldwell before them) but THIS conversation is based on COACHING STYLE, PLAYCALLING and SCHEMES vs. PERSONNEL and TALENT AT HAND!!! If my or ANYONE else's OPINION is different from yours THEN SO BE IT!! When I START reading a thread I don't agree with I either go on to the NEXT one or I keep reading to see DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS or angles. I don't know ANYONE'S background on this board. Some MIGHT be more QUALIFIED than others to talk football (former players or coaches at any level etc.) but at the end of the day MOST are Colt fans and have a PASSION for their team. I will say again when national sports media start using words like trust in "this" staff as far as playcalling and schemes ESPECIALLY when concerning the use of Luck or "perceived"  bust status of T Rich. (who did ok last week) Make no mistake about it IF the Colts lay an egg or STRUGGLE against the PITIFUL Jags; then you won't have to worry the "perceived" negativity on THIS board because you will have to turn off your tv from ALL the heat this STAFF will take from sports media.   P.S  The whole dilemma is do you hold on to this staff too long (like the Polian years) or do you make CHANGES for the better of Luck and the team. Keep in mind the previous regime also won but some felt (including the OWNER) they wasted some of Peyton's best years with coservative play in the playoffs where as THIS STAFF uses that type of play in the REGULAR season.

Here's a play call for you....

 

....Spider Y Banana Paragraph Right on 1....Break!!!

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I love Bruce, I love his "no risk it, no biscuit" philosophy, I think he is a great coach and person. BUT, Bruce has moxie ask the Steelers.......um no, the Steelers fired him to hire Todd Haley.....c'mon man.....the Steelers get no praise.

They didn't fire Bruce they chose not to renew his contract when it was up because they wanted to go back to more of a ground and pound style BUT from all reports Todd's dad had long worked for the Rooneys back in the day and Todd grew up around Steeler nation. Sorry basketballsteve maybe it came out wrong because I didn't mean to praise the Steelers about Bruce and his moxie, I was KNOCKING them because Ben or the offense hasn't been the same since he left.  

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With all due respect......

 

The first two games of the season were against tough opponents, and it's not like the Colts were blown out of the water.  They lost one game by a TD and the other by a FG.  

 

All off-season all we heard from some posters on here was how the Colts would go 19-0,  which was just as unreasonable as asking for the Coaching staff to be fired after two losses.

 

I fully believe the team will get it together and bounce back from these two losses.  I see a WIN today  :td:  

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