Interesting stat Arians vs Pep

[theanarchist]

I was interested to see how much we threw to the RB's when Arians was here vs last year when Pep took over. What found was pretty startling and makes me wonder why there is such difference.

 

In 2012 when Arians ran the offense there was a total of 50 passes thrown to RB's with 33 receptions out of that 50.

 

In 2013 with Pep having taken over there was 108 passes thrown tor RB's  with 72 receptions. That is a huge difference. I'm not exactly sure what it means if anything but I do wonder if the huge disparity has to do with 1) the effectiveness of the other receivers 2) break down in pass protection 3) Pep's schemes.

 

I think we all have asked lately why Andrew isn't looking downfield more or is throwing shorter passes. I do think part of it is break down in pass protection but I also wonder too if Pep's route schemes are being less effective and thus has to dump more passes off to the RB's and underneath receivers??

[TKnight24]

I was interested to see how much we threw to the RB's when Arians was here vs last year when Pep took over. What found was pretty startling and makes me wonder why there is such difference.

In 2012 when Arians ran the offense there was a total of 50 passes thrown to RB's with 33 receptions out of that 50.

In 2013 with Pep having taken over there was 108 passes thrown tor RB's with 72 receptions. That is a huge difference. I'm not exactly sure what if means if anything but I do wonder if the huge disparity has to do with 1) the effectiveness of the other receivers 2) break down in pass protection 3) Pep's schemes.

I think was all have asked lately why Andrew isn't looking downfield more or is throwing shorter passes. I do think part of it is break down in pass protection but I also wonder too if Pep's route schemes are being less effective and thus has to dump more passes off to the RB's and underneath receivers??

Arians offense played to our strengths

He knew we had Burners in Avery, Hilton, & Brazill so you stretch the field with them and let Reggie do all the underneath and chain moving

PEPs offense is literally a fixed offense, west coast style. Short passing and running the ball. Take a deep shot here and there but mostly it's a chain moving, clock controlling offense

[theanarchist]

Interesting u mentioned Avery. In 2012 he was targeted 124 times! Reggie was targeted 195! And Ty 90 times.

In 2013 the targets were: dhb 64, Ty 139(went way up after Reggie went down) Fleener 87 Whalen 40 and Brazil 27. Wayne had 59 before going down.

[TKnight24]

Interesting u mentioned Avery. In 2012 he was targeted 124 times! Reggie was targeted 195! And Ty 90 times.

In 2013 the targets were: dhb 64, Ty 139(went way up after Reggie went down) Fleener 87 Whalen 40 and Brazil 27. Wayne had 59 before going down.

You can easily see the difference

2 WR's with hands of stone

124 for one

64 for another

Now if Arians was still here with what is now arguably our BEST receiving corps (on paper), easily we're 2-0 right now

[theanarchist]

Agreed

[Jason_]

It all comes down to this...Arians has even said himself he does not make any conscious effort to get the RBs involved in the passing game.  He's said that RBs are for running and blocking, not for catching...or something to that effect.  It would be more telling to compare RB targets/catches in Pep's offense versus the rest of the league and then compare the same under Arians to the rest of the league.  What I imagine you'll find is that Pep's offense is much closer to the league average and that Arians' offense is near the bottom in the league in terms of RB targets and receptions.

[Jason_]

You can easily see the difference

2 WR's with hands of stone

124 for one

64 for another

Now if Arians was still here with what is now arguably our BEST receiving corps (on paper), easily we're 2-0 right now

 

Unverifiable speculation

[Superman]

It all comes down to this...Arians has even said himself he does not make any conscious effort to get the RBs involved in the passing game.  He's said that RBs are for running and blocking, not for catching...or something to that effect.  It would be more telling to compare RB targets/catches in Pep's offense versus the rest of the league and then compare the same under Arians to the rest of the league.  What I imagine you'll find is that Pep's offense is much closer to the league average and that Arians' offense is near the bottom in the league in terms of RB targets and receptions.

 

Yup.

 

He's getting Ellington involved in the passing game, but he's not a fan of throwing to RBs.

[TKnight24]

Agreed

Yep, played 2 teams with weak secondaries and didn't take advantage of it. I will say that Arians offense was boom or bust, but it got the job done and gave Andrew the "comeback" kid title he has today

And even then I believe Pagano's cancer battle is the only reason we started struggling and falling behind. Stuff like that makes it hard to go out and play when you know your coach is fighting for his life. Cause once he came back, we started dominating. Up until Arians got hospitalized on gameday vs the Ravens in the playoffs

[theanarchist]

I liked Arians and his approach. I wish there was a way we could have kept him. I don't dislike pagans but I like Arians better. When we were looking for a new coach I said Arians, who had been let go by the steelers, and some scoffed. I'd like him back

[TKnight24]

I liked Arians and his approach. I wish there was a way we could have kept him. I don't dislike pagans but I like Arians better. When we were looking for a new coach I said Arians, who had been let go by the steelers, and some scoffed. I'd like him back

Well he's in Arizona now with a Top 5 secondary that'll get better once the Honey Badger gets going too so doubt he's coming back

[B~Town]

I look at it like this when we get behind and ditch what Pep wants to do and lets Luck let if fly we score in bunches . I feel like were are trying to make Luck a game manager and it's my opinion you do that if you a below average QB with a good D and run game to make it work .

[BOTT]

Yup.

 

He's getting Ellington involved in the passing game, but he's not a fan of throwing to RBs.

Probably the Tom Moore influence

[TKnight24]

I look at it like this when we get behind and ditch what Pep wants to do and lets Luck let if fly we score in bunches . I feel like were are trying to make Luck a game manager and it's my opinion you do that if you a below average QB with a good D and run game to make it work .

Arians offense was let it fly from the moment the whistle sounds. We didn't fall behind 21-0 and all that foolishness when Arians was here. Like I said,aside from the ChuckStrong movement shaking us up, we were always in every game we played

[Superman]

Probably the Tom Moore influence

 

Very possible. I would hope that having a player like Ellington would make him more willing to throw him the ball, but it could simply be a Tom Moore thing.

[throwing BBZ]

I was interested to see how much we threw to the RB's when Arians was here vs last year when Pep took over. What found was pretty startling and makes me wonder why there is such difference.

 

In 2012 when Arians ran the offense there was a total of 50 passes thrown to RB's with 33 receptions out of that 50.

 

In 2013 with Pep having taken over there was 108 passes thrown tor RB's  with 72 receptions. That is a huge difference. I'm not exactly sure what it means if anything but I do wonder if the huge disparity has to do with 1) the effectiveness of the other receivers 2) break down in pass protection 3) Pep's schemes.

 

I think we all have asked lately why Andrew isn't looking downfield more or is throwing shorter passes. I do think part of it is break down in pass protection but I also wonder too if Pep's route schemes are being less effective and thus has to dump more passes off to the RB's and underneath receivers??

 

 Andrew is a slow/questionable decision maker so longer routes are more comfortable for him.

 His lack of touch and pin point accuracy in the short game are a Problem that surely makes him uncomfortable also.

 At least he isn`t throwing in the 40 something % anymore as with Arians.

[akcolt]

Arians offense was let it fly from the moment the whistle sounds. We didn't fall behind 21-0 and all that foolishness when Arians was here. Like I said,aside from the ChuckStrong movement shaking us up, we were always in every game we played

Our score first offense has yet to see us score first.

[TKnight24]

Our score first offense has yet to see us score first.

Don't get me started on Pep..... Told myself I'm gonna remain quiet about it until the truth comes to the light

[BPM_Colt]

Yep, played 2 teams with weak secondaries and didn't take advantage of it. I will say that Arians offense was boom or bust, but it got the job done and gave Andrew the "comeback" kid title he has today

And even then I believe Pagano's cancer battle is the only reason we started struggling and falling behind. Stuff like that makes it hard to go out and play when you know your coach is fighting for his life. Cause once he came back, we started dominating. Up until Arians got hospitalized on gameday vs the Ravens in the playoffs

He coached 2 games after coming back.. And we went 1-1.. Wouldn't call that "dominating"

 

And to say we would easily be 2-0 is complete speculation

[TKnight24]

He coached 2 games after coming back.. And we went 1-1.. Wouldn't call that "dominating"

And to say we would easily be 2-0 is complete speculation

Sorry, the game he came back vs Houston. Should've clarified that

To this day I remember that almost flawless drive we had and the cleanest KR in NFL history by Karim running up the middle of the sea untouched

Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it

[BPM_Colt]

Sorry, the game he came back vs Houston. Should've clarified that

To this day I remember that almost flawless drive we had and the cleanest KR in NFL history by Karim running up the middle of the sea untouched

Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it

IMO I think that might be one of the best overall games I have seen us put together in the Luck/Pagano era... Sustained long drives all day and Vontae came up with 2 nice INTs..

 

And the Karim KR touchdown was beautiful

[YOUR GM]

I certainly am not a fan of Arians' scheme, but I do miss his leadership on the team. He kept the offense agressive when it needed to be. He and Pagano worked well together 

[Surge89]

I look at it like this when we get behind and ditch what Pep wants to do and lets Luck let if fly we score in bunches . I feel like were are trying to make Luck a game manager and it's my opinion you do that if you a below average QB with a good D and run game to make it work .

This is ridiculous... so Pep who cached Luck in college and works in the NFL wants to turn the QB he helped create into a game manager sub tier QB? He then scraps what he wants to do and then let's Luck (the 3rd year QB) call the shots so they can win?

Have you thought about that thought process at all? Because it sounds utterly ignorant. If anything you should be questioning the HC as he will be the one telling the offense unit as a whole what he wants.

I don't understand the love for Arians on this forum. Pep comes in turns Luck back into a QB with respectable completion percentage and low interceptions and does the one thing we have said for years to do with peyton (take the ball out of his hands) and be successful with it and yet everyone wishes we had the guy who puts our franchise in league leading hits to the QB and as many interceptions in a year as Mark freaking Sanchez.

He ain't perfect but it's still a good situation.

[B~Town]

This is ridiculous... so Pep who cached Luck in college and works in the NFL wants to turn the QB he helped create into a game manager sub tier QB? He then scraps what he wants to do and then let's Luck (the 3rd year QB) call the shots so they can win?

Have you thought about that thought process at all? Because it sounds utterly ignorant. If anything you should be questioning the HC as he will be the one telling the offense unit as a whole what he wants.

I don't understand the love for Arians on this forum. Pep comes in turns Luck back into a QB with respectable completion percentage and low interceptions and does the one thing we have said for years to do with peyton (take the ball out of his hands) and be successful with it and yet everyone wishes we had the guy who puts our franchise in league leading hits to the QB and as many interceptions in a year as Mark freaking Sanchez.

He ain't perfect but it's still a good situation.

Take off the blinders bud what are we doing when we are not down a lot that is not game managing ? So Luck had less int the regular season then 7 in playoffs because we were so predictable . This is the NFL not college that same moto doesn't work defenses are to good . We don't have to D or run game to be a game managing team so we should not try to act like it .

[NewColtsFan]

Arians offense played to our strengths

He knew we had Burners in Avery, Hilton, & Brazill so you stretch the field with them and let Reggie do all the underneath and chain moving

PEPs offense is literally a fixed offense, west coast style. Short passing and running the ball. Take a deep shot here and there but mostly it's a chain moving, clock controlling offense

 

Small, but important correction.....   Arians offense played to our RECEIVING strength.

 

It did not, however, play to our offensive line situation.    In fact,  it was the opposite.

 

Arian's offense has the QB dropping 7 steps and waiting and waiting and waiting for receivers to come open....  and we simply didn't have the OL to run that offense.

 

It's a small miracle that Luck wasn't hurt running that offense.

 

It's the same problem Arians had in Pittsburgh.   Eventually,  that organization was fearful that Roethlisberger would get hurt even worse than he was already....  Ben has almost always missed bug chunks of games with injuries and has played many more with the pain...

 

I'm glad Arians got his job in Arizona.   He's doing a wonderful job there as a HC,  and Luck hopefully stays alive and thrives in Indy....

[crazycolt1]

You can easily see the difference

2 WR's with hands of stone

124 for one

64 for another

Now if Arians was still here with what is now arguably our BEST receiving corps (on paper), easily we're 2-0 right now

That's if Luck could take the hits and sacks that came along with Arians offense.

[Dark Superman]

We have a much more solid team now than we did when Bruce was here.. I wonder what Lucks stats would look like if he was still here now.

[Superman]

We have a much more solid team now than we did when Bruce was here.. I wonder what Lucks stats would look like if he was still here now.

 

There's no question Luck's stats would be better in some areas. But I think he'd still be throwing a lot of interceptions, and his completion percentage would have a cap on it.

[lennymoore24]

This is ridiculous... so Pep who cached Luck in college and works in the NFL wants to turn the QB he helped create into a game manager sub tier QB? He then scraps what he wants to do and then let's Luck (the 3rd year QB) call the shots so they can win?

Have you thought about that thought process at all? Because it sounds utterly ignorant. If anything you should be questioning the HC as he will be the one telling the offense unit as a whole what he wants.

I don't understand the love for Arians on this forum. Pep comes in turns Luck back into a QB with respectable completion percentage and low interceptions and does the one thing we have said for years to do with peyton (take the ball out of his hands) and be successful with it and yet everyone wishes we had the guy who puts our franchise in league leading hits to the QB and as many interceptions in a year as Mark freaking Sanchez.

He ain't perfect but it's still a good situation.

 

Thank you!  I recall it seemed most people couldn't wait for Arians to get out the door.  Now he is longed for a loved.  But as I have said many times, unless the Colts play a 100% perfect game, "fans" on here are not satisfied and want someone's head.

[HarryTheCat]

You can easily see the difference

2 WR's with hands of stone

124 for one

64 for another

Now if Arians was still here with what is now arguably our BEST receiving corps (on paper), easily we're 2-0 right now

Soooo.....In other words, they gave Pep the keys to a Ferrari, and he tries to drive it like a dump truck.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

The only reason Pep was hired was because of how successful San Fran was. But that offense looked boring and conservative when Smith was the qb. Thats what this offense looks like.

[TKnight24]

Soooo.....In other words, they gave Pep the keys to a Ferrari, and he tries to drive it like a dump truck.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Small, but important correction.....   Arians offense played to our RECEIVING strength.

 

It did not, however, play to our offensive line situation.    In fact,  it was the opposite.

 

Arian's offense has the QB dropping 7 steps and waiting and waiting and waiting for receivers to come open....  and we simply didn't have the OL to run that offense.

 

It's a small miracle that Luck wasn't hurt running that offense.

 

It's the same problem Arians had in Pittsburgh.   Eventually,  that organization was fearful that Roethlisberger would get hurt even worse than he was already....  Ben has almost always missed bug chunks of games with injuries and has played many more with the pain...

 

I'm glad Arians got his job in Arizona.   He's doing a wonderful job there as a HC,  and Luck hopefully stays alive and thrives in Indy....

 

Here's the numbers on Ben under Arians, Luck under Arians, and Luck under Pep.

 

Ben Roethlisberger Under Arians

 

         Hits       Sacks    

2007     64          47          

2008     71          50

2009     71          51

2010     68          45

2011     66          45

Luck under Arians

2012     101         40

Luck under Pep

2013     95          31

 

I would like to point out Roethlisbergers record under Arians was 51 W  -  22 L.  In His record since Arians left is  16 W  -  15 L

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Small, but important correction.....   Arians offense played to our RECEIVING strength.

 

It did not, however, play to our offensive line situation.    In fact,  it was the opposite.

 

Arian's offense has the QB dropping 7 steps and waiting and waiting and waiting for receivers to come open....  and we simply didn't have the OL to run that offense.

 

It's a small miracle that Luck wasn't hurt running that offense.

 

It's the same problem Arians had in Pittsburgh.   Eventually,  that organization was fearful that Roethlisberger would get hurt even worse than he was already....  Ben has almost always missed bug chunks of games with injuries and has played many more with the pain...

 

I'm glad Arians got his job in Arizona.   He's doing a wonderful job there as a HC,  and Luck hopefully stays alive and thrives in Indy....

 

Yeah, not to mention that Carson Palmer has already been hurt this season as well.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

You can easily see the difference

2 WR's with hands of stone

124 for one

64 for another

Now if Arians was still here with what is now arguably our BEST receiving corps (on paper), easily we're 2-0 right now

 

 

Agreed

 

Not necessarily. Pep called fine games in both games, the players made mistakes. Sorry, but Pep can't be blamed for Richardson's fumble in game 2 and we were losing right out of the gates in game one.

 

Arians took a lot of risks and many paid off, Pep isn't as much of a risk taker but that doesn't make him a bad play-caller or coach. We (at least hypothetically) have a better D, or at least a D that should be better at Pagano's system --- this means our O shouldn't have to take as many risks, in fact, in Pagano's system we should be taking less risks than we did with Arians because they don't have the same philosophy.

 

We will be fine, the Broncos are #1 on the 'experts' power rankings and we almost made a comeback on them.. the Eagles are 2-0 and have the fastest pace offense in the league. We are a better team than Philly, and Pep called a great game to play to our O's strengths and to keep the D off the field -- the players on the field made mistakes (i.e., T-Rich fumbled and Luck throw a very costly pick when we were in scoring position, blame the refs if you want to on that).  If we correct our mistakes, limit our turnovers, and play solid football, we will be just fine.... Pep knows games when we have to air it out and games when we don't, we should not have tried to get into a shootout with the Eagles, we would have gotten crushed if we did... Pep called a great game, got our run game going, killed clock, kept their O to limited touches and our players on the field made costly mistakes -- if our players executed Pep's plan, we win that game by 3 scores.

[Surge89]

Here's the numbers on Ben under Arians, Luck under Arians, and Luck under Pep.

Ben Roethlisberger Under Arians

Hits Sacks

2007 64 47

2008 71 50

2009 71 51

2010 68 45

2011 66 45

Luck under Arians

2012 101 40

Luck under Pep

2013 95 31

I would like to point out Roethlisbergers record under Arians was 51 W - 22 L. In His record since Arians left is 16 W - 15 L

1st I'd like to point out that those sack numbers are horrid across the board. Hits on the QB have more to do with the play of the QB himself. If you were to take into account all of the time Ben was running for his life and not hit you would probably see the same numbers as luck or relatively close.

To to your last point win/loss literally has close to 0 relevance here. Ben had a historic defense for 6 years that carried him. His play though has gone through the roof with Haley. And that's is with one weapon on offense. His int ratio, his timing passes, his sacks, his comp % all went up when Arians left town. Just when Arians left town so did the rest of the team. They have no talent on the defensive side barely getting the oline together and just got a RB. So the use of win/loss doesn't relate to Bens play here he's just not a QB who can throw games on himself and win them. Doesn't mean he's playing bad he just isn't that type of player. Then again I would find it hard for Manning or Brady to do anything with that offense they have had the past 3 years.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1st I'd like to point out that those sack numbers are horrid across the board. Hits on the QB have more to do with the play of the QB himself. If you were to take into account all of the time Ben was running for his life and not hit you would probably see the same numbers as luck or relatively close.

To to your last point win/loss literally has close to 0 relevance here. Ben had a historic defense for 6 years that carried him. His play though has gone through the roof with Haley. And that's is with one weapon on offense. His int ratio, his timing passes, his sacks, his comp % all went up when Arians left town. Just when Arians left town so did the rest of the team. They have no talent on the defensive side barely getting the oline together and just got a RB. So the use of win/loss doesn't relate to Bens play here he's just not a QB who can throw games on himself and win them. Doesn't mean he's playing bad he just isn't that type of player. Then again I would find it hard for Manning or Brady to do anything with that offense they have had the past 3 years.

 

Can you point out the stats the play stats that went through the roof in 2012 and 2013 over 2007-2011?

 

[Surge89]

Can you point out the stats the play stats that went through the roof in 2012 and 2013 over 2007-2011?

I didn't say his stats went through the roof. I just said they went up they got better. His play though has. He no longer plays backyard ball in which he runs in circles for 5 minutes until someone gets open. He actually throws like a QB sitting in the pocket climbing and understanding routes. It's night and day if you look at his play from 5 years ago.