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Mathis wouldve been reinstated with new drug policy...


Indeee

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a lot of good that does us now. pagano and manusky are gonna have to start getting creative with their blitzs. do crossing gap blitzs with our ILBs. send safety and cb blitzs because just sending werner and walden isnt working. foles had time to pick up his laundry, wait for it to dry while snapping open a cold one

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I don't get why he couldn't have been at the team facilities.  He can't play or practice, that's punishment enough.  But he was working out on his own, without the supervision of Colts staff.  Who is to say that he wouldn't have hurt himself if he had been training at the facilities, with equipment he's used to, with supervision that knows him?

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I don't get why he couldn't have been at the team facilities.  He can't play or practice, that's punishment enough.  But he was working out on his own, without the supervision of Colts staff.  Who is to say that he wouldn't have hurt himself if he had been training at the facilities, with equipment he's used to, with supervision that knows him?

 

The only thing is. . . a professional athlete you would think would be able to work out on their own without supervision.  

 

It's not like all these guys go to the Colts facility to workout during the off-season but they most certainly do workout.  

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I don't get why he couldn't have been at the team facilities.  He can't play or practice, that's punishment enough.  But he was working out on his own, without the supervision of Colts staff.  Who is to say that he wouldn't have hurt himself if he had been training at the facilities, with equipment he's used to, with supervision that knows him?

 

I agree. That part of the rule needs to be reevaluated. We can't have players getting hurt, because they are suspended and trying to stay in football shape. We should at least give them access to the trainers. 

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The only thing is. . . a professional athlete you would think would be able to work out on their own without supervision.  

 

It's not like all these guys go to the Colts facility to workout during the off-season but they most certainly do workout.  

 

How many hold-outs get hurt when they come back?

 

There is a difference between working out on your own and working out with professional physical trainers. 

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The only thing is. . . a professional athlete you would think would be able to work out on their own without supervision.  

 

It's not like all these guys go to the Colts facility to workout during the off-season but they most certainly do workout.  

Yeah, I agree.  It was likely a freak accident that could have even happened at the Colts facilities with the Colts strength and conditioning coaches.  But at least then, you say he was with the team and everything.  Here, he couldn't even talk to the guys.  I don't understand that part of the suspension

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I don't think that the premise of this thread is correct.  The guys that were reinstated had done recreational drugs, not drugs classified as PED's.  In Welker's case the drug that he tested positive for is being reclassified from PED to recreational, but only during the off-season.  I have not read the full policy, but that is my understanding.

 

And, btw, there isn't a "would've".  If he would've been reinstated than he WILL be reinstated.  Just because he's on IR doesn't mean that they still couldn't lift his ban on being at the team facility and speaking with other members of the organization.

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I don't think that the premise of this thread is correct.  The guys that were reinstated had done recreational drugs, not drugs classified as PED's.  In Welker's case the drug that he tested positive for is being reclassified from PED to recreational, but only during the off-season.  I have not read the full policy, but that is my understanding.

 

And, btw, there isn't a "would've".  If he would've been reinstated than he WILL be reinstated.  Just because he's on IR doesn't mean that they still couldn't lift his ban on being at the team facility and speaking with other members of the organization.

 

Yeah. I think it in incorrect too.

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I don't get why he couldn't have been at the team facilities.  He can't play or practice, that's punishment enough.  But he was working out on his own, without the supervision of Colts staff.  Who is to say that he wouldn't have hurt himself if he had been training at the facilities, with equipment he's used to, with supervision that knows him?

 

I thought he was able to use the facilities or was i incorrect? heard that on ESPN around the time the suspension occurred.

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I don't think that the premise of this thread is correct.  The guys that were reinstated had done recreational drugs, not drugs classified as PED's.  In Welker's case the drug that he tested positive for is being reclassified from PED to recreational, but only during the off-season.  I have not read the full policy, but that is my understanding.

 

And, btw, there isn't a "would've".  If he would've been reinstated than he WILL be reinstated.  Just because he's on IR doesn't mean that they still couldn't lift his ban on being at the team facility and speaking with other members of the organization.

 

Agreed. No reason to think that Clomid will be reclassified under this new policy. Mathis' suspension likely would have still been 4 games.

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I thought he was able to use the facilities or was i incorrect? heard that on ESPN around the time the suspension occurred.

He wasn't allowed to have any contact with the team.  Reggie made a joke about it, but I think he was being serious.  He said something like "Mathis and I are next door neighbours.  If we go to check our mail at the same time, I have to ignore him, look the other way, I have to be that neighbour you hate who sees you but doesn't say anything".  He isn't allowed to be at the facilities or talk to anyone in the organization.  That's what I understand

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

According to John Clayton on ESPN in his mailbag article, Mathis's case is one of the ones being reviewed, and it's very likely the suspension be lifted.

 

It's quite the opposite. I wouldn't be surprised if the suspension is lifted this week. He had a PED suspension in the offseason. Each case is being reviewed under the new policy, so I wouldn't be surprised if the league makes him eligible this week. The problem is that he can't play because of the blown Achilles tendon. The NFL apparently is addressing the problem that put Mathis in position for the injury. The league is going to start permitting suspended players to be with the team during their down time. Mathis should have been allowed to be with the Colts and their trainers. Working on his own, he blew out the Achilles. Sad.

 

Sauce: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11540364/clayton-mailbag-big-nfl-free-agent-spending-not-paying-off

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According to John Clayton on ESPN in his mailbag article, Mathis's case is one of the ones being reviewed, and it's very likely the suspension be lifted.

 

 

 

Sauce: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11540364/clayton-mailbag-big-nfl-free-agent-spending-not-paying-off

 

Wow, that's big. The second part on permitting suspended players to work out with the team is noteworthy. A day late and a dollar short for us.

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

It is an anti-estrogenic agent. It is not a masking drug as most diuretics are. Anti-estrogenics promote testosterone production.

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Wow, that's big. The second part on permitting suspended players to work out with the team is noteworthy. A day late and a dollar short for us.

Since it was off season, I could see Clomid being classified like MDMA.... IF, a big if, they do not suspect it is the final part of a steroid cycle. In that vein, it would surely be a review on a case by case basis. Not as a universal off season reclssification.

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He wasn't allowed to have any contact with the team.  Reggie made a joke about it, but I think he was being serious.  He said something like "Mathis and I are next door neighbours.  If we go to check our mail at the same time, I have to ignore him, look the other way, I have to be that neighbour you hate who sees you but doesn't say anything".  He isn't allowed to be at the facilities or talk to anyone in the organization.  That's what I understand

 

That's terrible, IMO had he been allowed access to the facilities the injury wouldnt have occurred. Its just crazy how these things play out.

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It is an anti-estrogenic agent. It is not a masking drug as most diuretics are. Anti-estrogenics promote testosterone production.

 

And this is where I dislike the PED policy. They test for elevated levels of testosterone, which makes sense, but in Mathis' case, even if he were using Clomid to recover from a cycle, it's not likely that his testosterone was elevated enough to trigger a violation. As a matter of fact, it wasn't; everyone has said he was suspended for Clomid, not testosterone. 

 

So the only reason Clomid and other anti-estrogenics are banned is because they are commonly used as recovery agents. They dropped the hammer broadly, but technically, someone can be taking a testosterone booster just because they have low levels. It isn't proof that they're on a recovery cycle. 

 

Just playing devil's advocate. Clayton says they're reviewing everything case by case, so we'll see what they do with Mathis. If they're going to lift the restrictions on working out with the team during suspension, then they might as well just lift Mathis' suspension right now. He can't play anyways.

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

 

 

In the world of steroids , it's very , very common to do Clomid after a cycle of steroids. Not saying what the real reason was for Mathis taking this but just stating fact.

 

Question: Why Should Bodybuilders use Clomid?

Answer: Almost all anabolic androgenic steroids will cause an inhibition of

the bodies own testosterone production. When he comes off the steroids he has

no natural test production and no more steroids. The body is left in a state

of catabolism (catabolic hormones are high and anabolic hormones are low) and

as a result much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going

to be lost. Clomid stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so

that a faster and higher release of follicle stimulating hormone aud luteinizing

hormone occurs. This results in an increase of the body’s own testosterone production.

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Just playing devil's advocate. Clayton says they're reviewing everything case by case, so we'll see what they do with Mathis. If they're going to lift the restrictions on working out with the team during suspension, then they might as well just lift Mathis' suspension right now. He can't play anyways.

 

Another devil's advocate thought; there is an argument for players injured not counting as time towards the suspension too.

 

Though I would not be in favor of it.

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Do we know what Robert actually did that caused the injury?  I still have never heard.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/09/10/defense-pass-rushers-feel-pressure-robert-mathis-suspension-injury/15418211/

 

"...the Indianapolis Colts returned to their practice facility on Wednesday after learning earlier this week that Mathis had suffered an Achilles' tendon injury while working out in Atlanta last week."

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Eh. Lots of "what ifs" when you think about it like this. Might as well let it be what it is and move on. It won't change now. (Or ever, now that I mention it.)

 

I don't get why he couldn't have been at the team facilities.  He can't play or practice, that's punishment enough.  But he was working out on his own, without the supervision of Colts staff.  Who is to say that he wouldn't have hurt himself if he had been training at the facilities, with equipment he's used to, with supervision that knows him?

 

Pretty much.

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaresources/files/banned%20substance%20list.pdf

 

Here's the list.  Clomid or clomiphene is an anti-estrogen and not a masking agent. 

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/09/10/defense-pass-rushers-feel-pressure-robert-mathis-suspension-injury/15418211/

 

"...the Indianapolis Colts returned to their practice facility on Wednesday after learning earlier this week that Mathis had suffered an Achilles' tendon injury while working out in Atlanta last week."

 

I was hoping for something more specific.  Was he running/cutting, doing leg presses, etc.?

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How is Clomid classified? Is it a masking agent, or a performance enhancer? Because according to the link, a masking agent only results in a two game suspension, so Mathis would be coming back this week (and could still be reinstated since the new policy is being applied retroactively). It's my understanding that Clomid is a recovery agent, so it might still fall under the performance enhancer category.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

I never knew that they called it a masking agent. Cause the exact purpose for it is to be used in a post cycle therapy. Anytime you run any kind of cycle you need a pct to jump start your body back to it's natural state. That is of course besides using it as a fertility drug, which is the first I've heard if it. Most experienced weight lifters know about clomid. I'd be shocked if 80% of the nfl players didn't know what it was and used for.

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I never knew that they called it a masking agent. Cause the exact purpose for it is to be used in a post cycle therapy. Anytime you run any kind of cycle you need a pct to jump start your body back to it's natural state. That is of course besides using it as a fertility drug, which is the first I've heard if it. Most experienced weight lifters know about clomid. I'd be shocked if 80% of the nfl players didn't know what it was and used for.

 

Evidently, it's not a masking agent.

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I never knew that they called it a masking agent. Cause the exact purpose for it is to be used in a post cycle therapy. Anytime you run any kind of cycle you need a pct to jump start your body back to it's natural state. That is of course besides using it as a fertility drug, which is the first I've heard if it. Most experienced weight lifters know about clomid. I'd be shocked if 80% of the nfl players didn't know what it was and used for.

You got it right, it's an anti-estrogenic.  Not a masking drug of any type.  It is usedby guys who got ripped on a steroid cycle, and keeps them from losing all the muscle they gained on it because they now have very low T.  So testing positive for it could very well mean the NFL testers were a day late and a dollar short on the real substance abuse and found the 'cleanup' substance used to jump start the nads again and preserve that new found 6 pack and massive guns. Thus it gets the same penalty.

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At this point I don't see how it would hurt to give Sam a shot. Besides, the media is preoccupied with other matters right now.

 

It has never been about the media circus. He's just not a good fit for our defense, period. There are a million pass rushers that would fit better than Michael Sam. A million.

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