PFF: Pass rush productivity

[Superman]

PFF does an aggregate stat / ranking called Pass Rushing Productivity. It takes all of a player's QB pressures -- sacks, hits and hurries -- and after weighting the sacks, divides that weighted total by the number of pass rush snaps played by the player. That result yields a weighted percentage, which PFF uses as their PRP number. This is statistical analysis, not a subjective rating. (Although, of course, the more pass rush opportunities you get, the more telling this aggregate stat becomes.)

 

Out of all 3-4 OLBs who played at least 25% of defensive snaps for their team this preseason, the Colts have five players in the top 45, including the top 2: Studebaker (#1, PRP 27.3), Walden (#2, PRP 20.4), Werner (#31, PRP 9.7), Johnson (T-#32, PRP 9.6), Newsome (#45, PRP 7.2). 

 

That's a pretty good sign. No one has really stood out as a great pass rusher through preseason, but collectively, those guys have 24 pressures (including 2 sacks) on 155 pass rush snaps. Our ILBs have been pretty good on their pass rushes as well. 

 

And the primary guy while Mathis is out will be Werner, and although he's been playing on the weak side most of the time, he's not rushing the passer the way our Rush backer ordinarily would. He's only rushing on 63.3% of passing snaps through preseason. He rushed 84.9% of passing snaps last season; Mathis rushed 92.1% of pass snaps last season. So hopefully, as that rush percentage increases, his rate of pressure increases as well. 

[Nobody]

Studebaker has been great

[twfish]

STUDabaker. Yea I went there...

[NewColtsFan]

The problem is......

 

With Mathis,  that's 6 OLB's....   and most teams only carry 5.

 

Could we carry 6?   Yes,  but I think it's unlikely.

 

I wonder if that makes a guy like Studebaker, or Cam Johnson a candidate for a late round draft pick....  I'm talking 6 or more likely a 7....?

 

Just thinking out loud.....

[Superman]

The problem is......

 

With Mathis,  that's 6 OLB's....   and most teams only carry 5.

 

Could we carry 6?   Yes,  but I think it's unlikely.

 

I wonder if that makes a guy like Studebaker, or Cam Johnson a candidate for a late round draft pick....  I'm talking 6 or more likely a 7....?

 

Just thinking out loud.....

 

I doubt we make a move like that. I think we carry the five right now, and see what happens the first four weeks of the season. Then we cut someone when Mathis comes back, based on how they play. Maybe Studebaker's versatility makes it a little easier, but I think we have good depth at ILB also. 

 

As of right now, I'd part with Cam Johnson, if I had to.

[Gavin]

The only question I have is this, What is considered a pressure? Moving a QB off his spot? Just beating your man? It seems it can be defined a couple different ways? What I tend to go by more is QB Hits, Those are pretty cut and dry.

[dudeski]

The only question I have is this, What is considered a pressure? Moving a QB off his spot? Just beating your man? It seems it can be defined a couple different ways? What I tend to go by more is QB Hits, Those are pretty cut and dry.

its pff. They probably don't know

[Smonroe]

STUDabaker. Yea I went there...

He is driven to succeed.

Okay, I'll quit. BTW, he is from the car family.

[twfish]

He is driven to succeed.

Okay, I'll quit. BTW, he is from the car family.

Well hes actually shown this pre season hes still in business.

[Superman]

The only question I have is this, What is considered a pressure? Moving a QB off his spot? Just beating your man? It seems it can be defined a couple different ways? What I tend to go by more is QB Hits, Those are pretty cut and dry.

 

A pressure is any sack, hit or hurry. I think you're asking what is a hurry. A hurry is when you force the QB out of the pocket, or force him to throw the ball. Hurries should be recognized as somewhat subjective, but it's not hard to determine a hurry when you see one. It's like a dropped pass or a blown block. Pretty much 98% of the time, everyone will agree. But there will be a play here or there where you think there's a hurry, but I don't, and then there will be another player over here where I think it's a hurry but you don't. It generally balances out. It also helps that PFF uses only a handful of people to chart plays, so you don't get a wide variance from one player to the next. 

 

Sacks are obviously more impactful, which is why PRP is weighted toward sacks, but hurries matter as well.

 

I know you're not suggesting this, but it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that a group of people who watch football all day long, and who have created a product that is being purchased by NFL teams, don't know what a QB pressure is. It's one of the simplest things to figure out in football.

[BrentMc11]

He is driven to succeed.

Okay, I'll quit. BTW, he is from the car family.

I know why he has played so well now!  The Studebaker was well known for the infamous 'backfire.'  I wonder if he backfires when making each tackle

[jvan1973]

I know why he has played so well now! The Studebaker was well known for the infamous 'backfire.' I wonder if he backfires when making each tackle

Uh, if he does i bet it smells different than the automobile backfire

[chrisfarley]

is Studebaker going to make the team?

[jvan1973]

is Studebaker going to make the team?

we will find out in a few hours

[chrisfarley]

we will find out in a few hours

it'S 4PM RIGHT?

[jvan1973]

it'S 4PM RIGHT?

yep

[chrisfarley]

yep

Will there be a chat at the 4PM deadline ?

[jvan1973]

Will there be a chat at the 4PM deadline ?

i have no idea. I'll be at the notre dame rice game.

[chrisfarley]

i have no idea. I'll be at the notre dame rice game.

ok, thanks.  Go Irish!!!

[BOTT]

The only question I have is this, What is considered a pressure? Moving a QB off his spot? Just beating your man? It seems it can be defined a couple different ways? What I tend to go by more is QB Hits, Those are pretty cut and dry.

That's a good question. I remember PFF was praising Donald Brown for yards after contact after a particular game, but after watching his carries on game rewind the "contact" was negligible.

[Gavin]

A pressure is any sack, hit or hurry. I think you're asking what is a hurry. A hurry is when you force the QB out of the pocket, or force him to throw the ball. Hurries should be recognized as somewhat subjective, but it's not hard to determine a hurry when you see one. It's like a dropped pass or a blown block. Pretty much 98% of the time, everyone will agree. But there will be a play here or there where you think there's a hurry, but I don't, and then there will be another player over here where I think it's a hurry but you don't. It generally balances out. It also helps that PFF uses only a handful of people to chart plays, so you don't get a wide variance from one player to the next. 

 

Sacks are obviously more impactful, which is why PRP is weighted toward sacks, but hurries matter as well.

 

I know you're not suggesting this, but it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that a group of people who watch football all day long, and who have created a product that is being purchased by NFL teams, don't know what a QB pressure is. It's one of the simplest things to figure out in football.

Thanks, Yes I meant what is a hurry, That's what I thought it was but like you say that can be subjective at times, That's why I go by QB hits, Those aren't subjective, Also I think that hurry stat is a bit more impactful  to some more then others..Take for example Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers vs Matt Schaub or Micheal Vick.....while the former 2 don't get rattled near as easy as the latter 2 just by players flying near or around them ultimately if you can get hits on any of the 4 your eventually going to rattle them and throw off there timing and get in there heads, Which when talking about our own QB Luck he just compliments them(defense) on a good hit (sound byte from a show on NFL Network...forget the name)

[Gavin]

That's a good question. I remember PFF was praising Donald Brown for yards after contact after a particular game, but after watching his carries on game rewind the "contact" was negligible.

yards after contact is pretty cut and dry as long as you have a keen eye, Now some hits are brief brushing type hits (such as a a defensive player losing his balance on a gang tackle and falling  on the way down. there is a little contact with the ball carrier,That is likely to happen when a player is late to the ball or late to the party so to speak but some of that brief contact doesn't matter so much because its so light, its like being on a subway train with a a load of people on it and being jostled a bit by the moving of the train, shoulders brush but not enough to be a significant impact more often then not)

[jvan1973]

yards after contact is pretty cut and dry as long as you have a keen eye, Now some hits are brief brushing type hits (such as a a defensive player losing his balance on a gang tackle and falling yet on the way down there is a little contact with the ball carrier,That is likely to happen when a player is late to the ball or late to the party so to speak)

You don't really need a "keen eye" to know when contact is made

[BOTT]

yards after contact is pretty cut and dry as long as you have a keen eye, Now some hits are brief brushing type hits (such as a a defensive player losing his balance on a gang tackle and falling  on the way down. there is a little contact with the ball carrier,That is likely to happen when a player is late to the ball or late to the party so to speak but some of that brief contact doesn't matter so much because its so light, its like being on a subway train with a a load of people on it and being jostled a bit by the moving of the train, shoulders brush but not enough to be a significant impact more often then not)

Yes, but to praise a player for yards after contact when the contact is little more than a slap on the thigh as he runs thru the a gaping hole is misleading.....which is what they did with Donald brown.

[Superman]

That's a good question. I remember PFF was praising Donald Brown for yards after contact after a particular game, but after watching his carries on game rewind the "contact" was negligible.

 

I think it's up to the consumer to put certain stats into contact. Like you say, some contact is less meaningful than other contact.

[Superman]

Thanks, Yes I meant what is a hurry, That's what I thought it was but like you say that can be subjective at times, That's why I go by QB hits, Those aren't subjective, Also I think that hurry stat is a bit more impactful  to some more then others..Take for example Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers vs Matt Schaub or Micheal Vick.....while the former 2 don't get rattled near as easy as the latter 2 just by players flying near or around them ultimately if you can get hits on any of the 4 your eventually going to rattle them and throw off there timing and get in there heads, Which when talking about our own QB Luck he just compliments them(defense) on a good hit (sound byte from a show on NFL Network...forget the name)

 

That's a credit to players who can handle being hurried, who don't bail as soon as the pocket gets noisy, etc. Doesn't mean hurries aren't important. Typically, you're forcing the QB to throw the ball (presumably before he'd otherwise want to throw it), or you're forcing him to leave the pocket. Both of those scenarios have an impact, and should be credited to the defender.

 

Same with hits. Like you said, Luck will stand in there and take hits, just like others can handle non-contact pressures. Overall, though, a hit is better than a hurry. I know PFF weights sacks; I don't think they weight hits.

[throwing BBZ]

A pressure is any sack, hit or hurry. I think you're asking what is a hurry. A hurry is when you force the QB out of the pocket, or force him to throw the ball. Hurries should be recognized as somewhat subjective, but it's not hard to determine a hurry when you see one. It's like a dropped pass or a blown block. Pretty much 98% of the time, everyone will agree. But there will be a play here or there where you think there's a hurry, but I don't, and then there will be another player over here where I think it's a hurry but you don't. It generally balances out. It also helps that PFF uses only a handful of people to chart plays, so you don't get a wide variance from one player to the next. 

 

Sacks are obviously more impactful, which is why PRP is weighted toward sacks, but hurries matter as well.

 

I know you're not suggesting this, but it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that a group of people who watch football all day long, and who have created a product that is being purchased by NFL teams, don't know what a QB pressure is. It's one of the simplest things to figure out in football.

 

 I believe a hurry is better defined as moving the QB off his spot rather than out of the pocket.

 Once he is forced to move because of the rush things have deteriorated.

[Superman]

 I believe a hurry is better defined as moving the QB off his spot rather than out of the pocket.

 Once he is forced to move because of the rush things have deteriorated.

 

That's too subjective, IMO. Moving him off his spot could simply mean him climbing up in the pocket as the pass rush goes by him. If he doesn't throw the ball as a result of your forcing him to move, then I don't think it qualifies as a "hurry," by definition of the word. 

[Gavin]

You don't really need a "keen eye" to know when contact is made

Not the first initial contact but a lot of contact can and does go unnoticed unless cameras zoom in or spotlight the right angle

[jvan1973]

Not the first initial contact but a lot of contact can and does go unnoticed unless cameras zoom in or spotlight the right angle

ok, if you say so

[throwing BBZ]

That's too subjective, IMO. Moving him off his spot could simply mean him climbing up in the pocket as the pass rush goes by him. If he doesn't throw the ball as a result of your forcing him to move, then I don't think it qualifies as a "hurry," by definition of the word. 

 

 Yes i must agree, a pass would be involved.

 I liked the blitz packages we used the 1st couple games.