Colts should have traded for Mankins

[chrisfarley]

Mankins has the best quads in the industry.  And I'm not talking about 4 wheelers.  He played an entire season on a torn ACL.  A knee doctor was asked about it and he said it's possible and that you would have to have incredibly strong quadriceps.  This guy is super-human.  Might have been with worth getting him at a lesser overall "cost".  Dag-nab-it.

[a06cc]

Gosder is 30 and Logan is 32. I do like you see a decline in Cherlius play, but it could be due to the preseason. I seen later in the season last year a decline when finishing blocks, but it could be because of fatigue. We're fine though. Gotta wait until the start of the season.

[Coffeedrinker]

TE desperate! Could make another move lots of money now available. maybe Incogneto? I know spelled wrong!

I know that's the reason given but it doesn't make a lot of sense... trade a probowl guard for a TE that had one good season and a 4th round pick?  No, that tells me that yes, they needed a TE but that Logan's play was not as good as expected this year.

[jskinnz]

I know that's the reason given but it doesn't make a lot of sense... trade a probowl guard for a TE that had one good season and a 4th round pick?  No, that tells me that yes, they needed a TE but that Logan's play was not as good as expected this year.

 

Agree completely.  This trade tells me that the drop off from this version of Mankins to the guy behind him is not as large as you might expect.  Someone else said this trade does not help Brady's closing window of opportunity.  Personally I don't think it impacts that one way or the other although Brady getting drilled by a DT the replacement G was supposed to block would bring a smile to my face.

[Superman]

Gosder is 30 and Logan is 32. I do like you see a decline in Cherlius play, but it could be due to the preseason. I seen later in the season last year a decline when finishing blocks, but it could be because of fatigue. We're fine though. Gotta wait until the start of the season.

 

If we traded Cherilus this year, we'd have a 2014 dead cap hit of $2.9m and cap savings of $4m, and next year, we'd have a dead cap hit of $5.8m and cap savings of $4.1m. The 2016 cap savings would be $10.4m, with no dead cap hit. That's a total cap savings over three years of $20.2m.

 

But we'd have no RT.

 

If he doesn't play well this season, he's a cut candidate. (And he'd have to have a TERRIBLE season.) But obviously not right now.

[PrincetonTiger]

If we traded Cherilus this year, we'd have a 2014 dead cap hit of $2.9m and cap savings of $4m, and next year, we'd have a dead cap hit of $5.8m and cap savings of $4.1m. The 2016 cap savings would be $10.4m, with no dead cap hit. That's a total cap savings over three years of $20.2m.

 

But we'd have no RT.

 

If he doesn't play well this season, he's a cut candidate. (And he'd have to have a TERRIBLE season.) But obviously not right now.

Nicely put

[jvan1973]

Mankins has the best quads in the industry. And I'm not talking about 4 wheelers. He played an entire season on a torn ACL. A knee doctor was asked about it and he said it's possible and that you would have to have incredibly strong quadriceps. This guy is super-human. Might have been with worth getting him at a lesser overall "cost". Dag-nab-it.

John Elway played his entire college and professional career with a torn acl

[chrisfarley]

John Elway played his entire college and professional career with a torn acl

i think he is paying for it now.  he is also a warrior.

[NewColtsFan]

John Elway played his entire college and professional career with a torn acl

 

Source?    Link?

 

I've never seen that anywhere and since he grew up not far from me, and I did one of the first national TV features on him,  I have followed his career closely.

 

Thanks.....

[Coffeedrinker]

Mankins has the best quads in the industry.  And I'm not talking about 4 wheelers.  He played an entire season on a torn ACL.  A knee doctor was asked about it and he said it's possible and that you would have to have incredibly strong quadriceps.  This guy is super-human.  Might have been with worth getting him at a lesser overall "cost".  Dag-nab-it.

It doesn't take a superhuman to play with a torn ACL, especially a lineman.  Takes a lot of toughness no doubt but the ACL stabilizes the leg when extended... oline don't extend their legs very often.  Don't get me wrong, I commend his toughness it's something very few professional athletes show nowadays.

 

Additionally something that happened three years ago is not a reason to trade for him now.

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm not Jvan but here you go.

Source?    Link?

 

I've never seen that anywhere and since he grew up not far from me, and I did one of the first national TV features on him,  I have followed his career closely.

 

Thanks.....

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/8/3850294/john-elway-played-entire-career-without-acl

 

http://broncosstats.tripod.com/player_stats/elway_facts.htm

[Superman]

It doesn't take a superhuman to play with a torn ACL, especially a lineman.  Takes a lot of toughness no doubt but the ACL stabilizes the leg when extended... oline don't extend their legs very often.  Don't get me wrong, I commend his toughness it's something very few professional athletes show nowadays.

 

Additionally something that happened three years ago is not a reason to trade for him now.

 

There are professional athletes that don't have ACLs at all. Either removed, or in the case of DeJuan Blair, he just didn't grow them (or so they think). It's not common, but it's happened.

[NewColtsFan]

John Elway played his entire college and professional career with a torn acl

 

And I just went out and found it.....

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/8/3850294/john-elway-played-entire-career-without-acl

 

That was pretty shocking to read....

 

Thanks for the 411!

[Superman]

Source?    Link?

 

I've never seen that anywhere and since he grew up not far from me, and I did one of the first national TV features on him,  I have followed his career closely.

 

Thanks.....

 

I don't think I knew that, either.

 

I was thinking about Sam Bradford the other day. It's obviously not recommended that any player play with an injury like that, but there have been players who delay ACL surgery so they can finish their season. 

[jvan1973]

Source? Link?

I've never seen that anywhere and since he grew up not far from me, and I did one of the first national TV features on him, I have followed his career closely.

Thanks.....

It's not new news. They used to mention it all the time during broadcasts

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/8/3850294/john-elway-played-entire-career-without-acl

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I know that's the reason given but it doesn't make a lot of sense... trade a probowl guard for a TE that had one good season and a 4th round pick?  No, that tells me that yes, they needed a TE but that Logan's play was not as good as expected this year.

Even if a pro bowl guard slips some I would think that he would at least be a SOLID guard. I think the Patriots are cutting some cost get a TE they seem to desperately need, and have on the roster a guy they like? or a plan to sign some guard that  may be available via trade or free agent, hum Boone is out there maybe or Incognito?

[Coffeedrinker]

Even if a pro bowl guard slips some I would think that he would at least be a SOLID guard. I think the Patriots are cutting some cost get a TE they seem to desperately need, and have on the roster a guy they like? or a plan to sign some guard that  may be available via trade or free agent, hum Boone is out there maybe or Incognito?

Perhaps.  I just know that since BB has been with the Patriots, they have not ended up on the bad side of many, if any, trades.

[husker61]

 

2) Always better to get rid of a player one too soon than one year too late.  I am sure he has actuarial type info on when production for someone of Mankin's age and position starts to decline.

 

 

i completely agree with this!

 

too many teams get attached to their aging vets and get stuck with bad contracts. 

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

If Belicheck unloaded an O lineman, you can bet the guy in question is well past his prime

and is a used turd. Belicheck takes great pride in his line so that Tommy Boy has his

ten seconds in the pocket to survey the field.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think so.  I think it would be a very short sighted trade.  You would have had to probably give up either Fleener or Allen plus a draft pick for a 32 year old guard.  That's the kinda of trade you look back on in two or three years when Fleener or Allen is coming into his prime and New England has another player who could have been yours with whatever draft pick you gave them and Mankins is on his way out of if not already out of the league and go what on earth was our GM doing?

 

I think a lot of us need to take a step back and remember the Colts are still a very young team.  To barrow the old window expression our window is just starting to open.  So I think it's awfully early to start mortgaging the future for players in attempt to win a Super Bowl.  I think it's an even worse idea when you fact in that the Colts have several very high draft picks tied into the guard and center positions.  They have a second, third, and fourth round pick at each of those positions.  At some point you need to figure out if they can play or not.  Also they need a chance to learn and frankly they aren't going to learn very much sitting behind Mankins, Bone, or any other vet out there that people think the Colts should go get. That goes back to my point about the Colts being a young team.  That probably means growing pains.  I know no one wants to growing pains they want all pros now.  However, those growing pains will probably pay off in a year or two if the young guys on the line pan out and turn out to be the guys Grigson thought he saw when he drafted them. 

 

With that said with Mewhort and Holmes injuries I wouldn't mind see them bring in a vet as a back solid back up.  A guy like a McGlynn who wouldn't mind being a back up and can play both guard and center wouldn't be a bad pick up after final cuts.  Before people blow up with me saying McGlynn's name I mean a guy like him not McGlynn himself persay.  In a perfect world you would love to have some better. 

[chrisfarley]

It doesn't take a superhuman to play with a torn ACL, especially a lineman.  Takes a lot of toughness no doubt but the ACL stabilizes the leg when extended... oline don't extend their legs very often.  Don't get me wrong, I commend his toughness it's something very few professional athletes show nowadays.

 

Additionally something that happened three years ago is not a reason to trade for him now.

You certainly have to extend your legs when you are working out and they (his knees) are put in high stress while blocking 300+ D-lineman.  I would highly doubt he was skipping the rigorous weight lifting regiment.  (Squats, etc.)   -   As I said, at a lesser overall "cost" (not worth it for us).

[Superman]

You certainly have to extend your legs when you are working out and they (his knees) are put in high stress while blocking 300+ D-lineman.  I would highly doubt he was skipping the rigorous weight lifting regiment.  (Squats, etc.)   -   As I said, at a lesser overall "cost" (not worth it for us).

 

Squats don't require as much lateral stabilization. So he's strengthening his quads and at the same time not putting a lot of stress on the compromised part of the joint.

 

Lunges might not be a good idea, though.

[ViriLudant]

Umm..why not? He would cost us maybe our backup TE and a 5th or 6th. You wouldn't trade that to finally get stability on the interior OL?

Except that Tampa's TE was a starter and NE got TB's 4th round pick.

[ViriLudant]

It was a 4th rounder, and the Bucs have been DESPERATE for guards. Yes, more desperate than us. And it would have cost us a TE with proven ability, not a project like Swoope or a deep reserve like Doyle or Saunders. Either Fleener or Allen, for sure.

So, good for the Bucs. Weird for the Pats (guess Gronk isn't ready, but who is gonna play guard now?) Not a good potential move for us.

The move didn't have to do with Gronk; the new TE is a smaller move TE, not a blocker like Gronk.

[Superman]

The move didn't have to do with Gronk; the new TE is a smaller move TE, not a blocker like Gronk.

That's true, but I kinda doubt that the Pats do this if Gronk is 100% and not so often injured. They certainly don't have anyone else that is a dependable producer at TE.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Except that Tampa's TE was a starter and NE got TB's 4th round pick.

He's a starter as much as Mike McGlynn  was a starter. TB just had no one better to put out there. Wright is a 3rd stringer on most teams

 

Myers was Tampa's projected starter this year

[Coffeedrinker]

You certainly have to extend your legs when you are working out and they (his knees) are put in high stress while blocking 300+ D-lineman.  I would highly doubt he was skipping the rigorous weight lifting regiment.  (Squats, etc.)   -   As I said, at a lesser overall "cost" (not worth it for us).

The weight lifting and strength training regiment during the season is not that intensive.  And yes the stress of blocking lineman is intense but the ACL does not provide, absorb or reduce that stress, the ACL provides stabilization to the leg from the knee and below when the leg is fully extended.

 

Like I said, he had to be in quite a bit of pain and his toughness is without question.

[ViriLudant]

He's a starter as much as Mike McGlynn  was a starter. TB just had no one better to put out there. Wright is a 3rd stringer on most teams

 

Myers was Tampa's projected starter this year

A guy who had 54 catches and 5 TDs in his rookie season is a 3rd stringer?

Wow.

[amfootball]

In terms of the Pats OL, while it def. needed to be retooled which they have done, much of the pressure Brady felt last season was from having to hold the ball because his receivers were not getting any separation because of all the turnover and injuries. That being said, Mankins let up 11 sacks. He is still a solid player but not the same guy as 2010 and before.

 

The Pats would never trade a player like him to Indy unless the offer was off the charts.

[lollygagger8]

I don't think I knew that, either.

 

I was thinking about Sam Bradford the other day. It's obviously not recommended that any player play with an injury like that, but there have been players who delay ACL surgery so they can finish their season. 

 

 

Our very own Josh Chapman is a good example. 

[BOTT]

Yea I have seen that the last 2 times we have gotten our butt's kicked by them!

Subject change?

[rock8591]

If anything, Tampa Bay got fleeced in this deal. New England got the clear steal.

[jbaron04]

No we don't need a 33 yr old line man looking for a last big pay day when we got young talent to sign, and he doesn't fit the power scheme

[Sports Central1]

Even if the Colts wanted Mankins I don't think the Pats would have traded with an AFC rival especially an AFC rival that's a super bow contender that can stand in the way of the Pats making the super bowl.  It would actually be safer for the Pats to trade Mankins to an AFC east team than it is to the Colts since the Colts are better than any AFC east team other than the Pats as of now.

[oldunclemark]

He was just traded today to Tampa for a backup TE and probably a 6th round pick. We could have easily fixed our interior woes on the OL with trading for him. Then next offseason, cut Cherilus and his big contract, and play Mewhort at RT.

 

Mankins is still only 32 and has at least 3 more good years in him. Could have instantly helped our run game and possibly propelled this OL to be superbowl contenders.

How would we have paid him?

[OLD FAN MAN]

i think he is paying for it now.  he is also a warrior.

and also a cap master who can fill his roster with big names and stay under the cap

[akcolt]

We need our draft picks this team is getting close to being a contender for as long as Luck is around. Young guys rookie deals is how you build. Sprinkle a vet FA in here and there but you can't live that way.

We dion't need big contracts on 32 yr old players in my opinion.Especially not from Lil Bill he's not going to help us. i am as frustrated as anybody about the O Line.

If Holmes Harrison or anyone can play C we are a LG from having a good O Line for yrs. I still think Mewhort will end up at RT but he will be fine at LG for a yr as long as Pep realizes he can't pull him. I think Thorton will settles in at RG.

We really need Grig's to have nailed it with Holmes. His 7 plays looked good and Harrison hasn't been awful. They both have played G too.

Things aren't that bad. It's not the time to panic our patience will pay off. We were 11-5 and won a play off game last yr. USA Today picked us to win the Super Bowl it's not that bad

[Deathiltis]

I know this is my personal opinion, but I don't want a guard who's shaky in pass coverage that is also north of 30.