Logan Mankins traded to Tampa Bay

[southwest1]

I get what you saying SW but this deal was a no brainer in terms of the contract for Mankins and the return which is a second year TE that had 54 catches. Brady has to be happy about that. What is ironic to me is that the Pats veered away from their normal pattern this year by signing and paying big money for FAs - Revis and Browner and then resigned long time NT Wilfork after what seemed to be a nasty fight when they originally asked him to restructure. In addition, they got Edelman back on a good deal because he could not find a team to pay him more than the Pats. So really this off-season has been an aberration for them. The Mankins trade has been more there MO but I think if Brady is upset at all, it is losing one of his good friends like it was when he lost Welker. He and Mankins go back almost ten years just like he did with Light. He knows it was the right business decision but that does not mean he is not sad over the loss.

 

In terms of your second point, turnover does matter but I think what has helped propel the Pats to such unprecedented success is the fact that they don't just turnover vet players without having a very good contingency plan. They have by no means been perfect but have made enough of the right decisions to maintain 10+ win seasons and deep playoff runs for the last decade.

 

I agree about the timing of the trade. I don't like it either and wish they had done it sooner. But I wonder if they were hopeful that Mankins would restructure or possibly have already been playing other guys on the line and just waiting for the right deal to come along. I think they could not pass up what the Bucs were offering given TE is such a big need and they got the draft pick and unloaded a huge salary for the next couple of seasons.

Nice post AMF. Very well written. I'll bet you were a good journalist. TBH I'll bet you that Bucs HC Lovie Smith saw how bad his o-line looked, desperately called BB up & said "I'm toast on the line. Can you throw me a bone & help me out? Anybody on the trading block that's good on your roster?" And Bingo, the Makins trade went down. 

 

Bill probably figured the timing is bad, but what the hades we were gonna move on without him anyway sooner or later. Sometimes, trades happen out of the blue & you just gotta roll the dice & hope the house doesn't give you a pair of snake eyes in the end. 

[southwest1]

I think Bill and Brady would have been fine with Chad running his routes if he was getting open. That was the difference. The speed was gone and so at that point you have to become a precision route runner like Reggie Wayne has become in the twilight of his career. Chad neither had the speed nor the discipline to be effective which is why his football career was over post NE. Moss was also infamous for dogging it and not running his routes either but he had blazing speed so he was open. If your open Brady will hit you. If not, best to follow the pattern of the play so you have a chance for Brady to hit you where he expects you to be.

Speed was not the issue according to GP's article running the wrong route was which messes up a QB's anticipation especially if you're not where Palmer or Brady expected Chad to be in the end which is why he never got the ball & rarely played. 

 

How did BB a veteran HC & DC mastermind with 5 SB rings total [3 as HC in NE & 2 as DC under Bill Parcels in NY] not see that exactly? My issue is signing him not how Brady throws to whoever is open AMF.

[amfootball]

Speed was not the issue according to GP's article running the wrong route was which messes up a QB's anticipation especially if you're not where Palmer or Brady expected Chad to be in the end which is why he never got the ball & rarely played. 

 

How did BB a veteran HC & DC mastermind with 5 SB rings total [3 as HC in NE & 2 as DC under Bill Parcels in NY] not see that exactly? My issue is signing him not how Brady throws to whoever is open AMF.

I don't doubt they did see it but maybe they thought they could get Chad to run the routes. He and Bill had a long history. Had been friends for quite some time. So I can see Bill thinking that he could get Chad to play the way he wanted. Remember he did get Chad to stay quiet and not do his normal media theatrics so it was clear that Chad had bought into the Patriot Way but perhaps he just could not revamp his game. I think that is it and his skills had also diminished a lot.

[southwest1]

lol the day he stepped in NE, his talent magically disappeared. Apparently that has happend to quite a few .

Bill is absolutely wrong. What does he know?.

Chad Johnson's thrill seeking TD days died in NE. I respect NE, but darn it Shane that was funny. NE where traded WRs rarely pan out: Austin Collie & Chad Johnson.

 

I kid; I kid. Randy Moss was a beast though. I can't lie.

 

[amfootball]

Speed was not the issue according to GP's article running the wrong route was which messes up a QB's anticipation especially if you're not where Palmer or Brady expected Chad to be in the end which is why he never got the ball & rarely played. 

 

How did BB a veteran HC & DC mastermind with 5 SB rings total [3 as HC in NE & 2 as DC under Bill Parcels in NY] not see that exactly? My issue is signing him not how Brady throws to whoever is open AMF.

One other thing to keep in mind SW. The year they signed Chad was the year of the lock out. There was no FA agent signing period except for three days after the new CBA was signed. Every team was scraping the bottom of the barrel. The Pats also signed Haynesworth as well and he was gone by mid-season. Bill may have never even considered Chad at all had there been a normal FA period and he could have had his pick of WRs.

[sweetsurrender]

Do people here think Chad was actually a good receiver? He pretty much single-handily drove Carson Palmer insane and was a HUGE distraction for that team with his diva attitude. If not for his speed and Palmer just winging it in hopes that Chad actually knew he was going, he would have been out of the league a lot sooner. He was fortunate to have played for such a lousy franchise like the Bengals where his off-field bafoonery was welcomed to keep fan interest. 

 

One of the biggest black marks against Belichick was thinking this guy could be disciplined. I suppose since he had success with Moss, he figured he could do it again with Chad. But honestly Chad has about one tenth the talent of Moss.

[Shane Bond]

Some people here think 10000 yards career as lousy. Its a joke.

[southwest1]

I don't doubt they did see it but maybe they thought they could get Chad to run the routes. He and Bill had a long history. Had been friends for quite some time. So I can see Bill thinking that he could get Chad to play the way he wanted. Remember he did get Chad to stay quiet and not do his normal media theatrics so it was clear that Chad had bought into the Patriot Way but perhaps he just could not revamp his game. I think that is it and his skills had also diminished a lot.

 

 

One other thing to keep in mind SW. The year they signed Chad was the year of the lock out. There was no FA agent signing period except for three days after the new CBA was signed. Every team was scraping the bottom of the barrel. The Pats also signed Haynesworth as well and he was gone by mid-season. Bill may have never even considered Chad at all had there been a normal FA period and he could have had his pick of WRs.

2 valid points AMF. Whoa, Hayworth & Johnson were signed  in the same year? Ouch! Although, we in INDY kept injury prone safety Bob Sanders a lot longer than we should have so every club is entitled to a few mistakes every now & then I guess. Not a trade issue with my Bob Sanders example I know, but you get my point. 

 

BB just needs to never fall blindly in love with tape again. As long as he learned his lesson here, everything will be fine. 

[amfootball]

2 valid points AMF. Whoa, Hayworth & Johnson were signed  in the same year? Ouch! Although, we in INDY kept injury prone safety Bob Sanders a lot longer than we should have so every club is entitled to a few mistakes every now & then I guess. Not a trade issue with my Bob Sanders example I know, but you get my point. 

 

BB just needs to never fall blindly in love with tape again. As long as he learned his lesson here, everything will be fine. 

Of course that year with Johnson and Haynesworth the Pats went to the Super Bowl and came with a play or two of winning it.

[amfootball]

Do people here think Chad was actually a good receiver? He pretty much single-handily drove Carson Palmer insane and was a HUGE distraction for that team with his diva attitude. If not for his speed and Palmer just winging it in hopes that Chad actually knew he was going, he would have been out of the league a lot sooner. He was fortunate to have played for such a lousy franchise like the Bengals where his off-field bafoonery was welcomed to keep fan interest. 

 

One of the biggest black marks against Belichick was thinking this guy could be disciplined. I suppose since he had success with Moss, he figured he could do it again with Chad. But honestly Chad has about one tenth the talent of Moss.

Yeah, I was never a big fan of his. Revis shut him down in back to back games and the second game was a playoff game. He never seemed to come up big in the big moments. I wanted to see him do well with the Pats but I had my doubts. The fans really loved him here in NE but he just could not stay on the field.

[southwest1]

 The fans really loved him here in NE but he just could not stay on the field.

Yeah, because Chad keep running the darn routes wrong & he became an liability vs a dependable asset. But, I will give your OC & HC credit for keeping ocho off the field because of it. 

[chad72]

Brady is not too happy about the trade:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/28/report-tom-brady-was-very-upset-with-logan-mankins-deal/

[southwest1]

Of course that year with Johnson and Haynesworth the Pats went to the Super Bowl and came with a play or two of winning it.

Good point if fat albert ie Albert  Haynesworth would have been in shape & eaten less Dunkin' Doughnuts the Pats might have won that SB LOL! 

 

BB & Mike Shanahan are close friends & I don't think Mike misled Bill here. He clued Bill into how lazy & lethargic Albert really was. 

[GoPats]

Man you come with these fancy articles and more you do, it looks more sillier .

So let me get this, Chad Johnson had 7 over 1000 yards seasons by running the route he wanted and pissing the QB.

Time to move on with this buddy.

 

(Throws hands up in the air.)

 

The only silly thing here is me thinking that you might budge from your agenda if I presented you with some factual information. 

 

You don't seem to realize that everyone wanted Chad Johnson to succeed here. The fans, the coaches, the players, everyone. We wanted to see him do well and to help the team. He came in, he couldn't get his head around the system, and at age 33 he was no longer able to beat people purely on physical ability alone.

 

There are plenty of examples of skill position players at both WR and RB who hit a wall in their early 30s. The Chad Johnson the Patriots had in 2011 was not the Chad Johnson who played in the NFL in 2005. Players lose speed and agility. They all do. Sometimes it's gradual, sometimes it's very sudden.  

 

But hey, you aren't buying it, so... cool. Stand by your assertion that it's all Brady's fault. If only this Hall of Fame quarterback could have done more with Ochocinco, who knows what may have come of it. 

[GoPats]

Here's my question though: Didn't BB bring him in for a private workout in Boston? The eye in the sky or tape never lies, but a guy as smart as Bill is, wouldn't he talk to Marvin Lewis personally about Chad & throw different route combinations at him live? Are we to believe that Marvin Lewis lied just to get rid of him & since BB is so good at throwing multiple situations at players in simulations why didn't he see that Johnson did his own thing & failed to follow orders, formations, & crisp WR routes? 

 

I'm not calling BB out. I am just surprised that he did see what kind of WR he was getting before NE signed him that's all. 

 

It sounds like 1 conversation with QB Carson Palmer would have been enough to say no thank you to Chad in a Pats uniform. Yes I know hindsight is always 20/20. I'm just amazed BB got so duped. Aaron Hernandez I get & can easily forgive, but the Johnson fiasco leaves me puzzled & perplexed GP. I can't lie. 

 

I don't think there was a workout, SW. They got him in a trade, not as a FA, so I can't imagine the Bengals would go out of their way to explain any of that to BB. Chad Johnson and Belichick got to know each other at a Pro Bowl and formed a kind of unusual friendship. 

 

All I know is that he had every chance to make it work out here, and that virtually every media source at the time attributed it to his inability to handle the offense. Taking it all in context, I can't fill in the blanks... I don't know what BB was thinking, or if any discussions took place with the player or Bengals management. 

 

The guy had a very successful career, so I'm not trying to knock him. Just a case of a 33-year-old receiver changing teams for the first time and trying to learn a new offense that was clearly way over his head. 

[southwest1]

I don't think there was a workout, SW. They got him in a trade, not as a FA, so I can't imagine the Bengals would go out of their way to explain any of that to BB. Chad Johnson and Belichick got to know each other at a Pro Bowl and formed a kind of unusual friendship. 

 

All I know is that he had every chance to make it work out here, and that virtually every media source at the time attributed it to his inability to handle the offense. Taking it all in context, I can't fill in the blanks... I don't know what BB was thinking, or if any discussions took place with the player or Bengals management. 

 

The guy had a very successful career, so I'm not trying to knock him. Just a case of a 33-year-old receiver changing teams for the first time and trying to learn a new offense that was clearly way over his head. 

I read ya GP. I'm not trying to condemn you or your HC. You know how much I respect you & the grey hoodie.  There might not have been a workout. I can't remember either TBH with you. 

 

I liked Chad as a person & I thought it seemed like a solid acquistion at the time. It's nice to see BB make a blunder occasionally. I'm not rooting for his demise. Quite the contrary, it makes me feel better to know that someone as smart as BB isn't flawless. It just seemed odd to me that BB never talked to Marvin Lewis. Maybe he did. I can't verify that he didn't. 

 

Your franchise is still top notch as well as your owner & HC. 

 

Chad's failure to digest NE's offense that's on him as a WR not your club. My BB King "After The Thrill Is Gone" post was just SW1 goofing around all in innocent fun. I meant nothing overly critical with it. I just wanted my Foxboro friends to know that. 

[southwest1]

Brady is not too happy about the trade:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/28/report-tom-brady-was-very-upset-with-logan-mankins-deal/

I always wonder when they ask a player to "take a paycut" what that really means? I mean are we talking about $100,000 or like $2,000,000? 

 

I can't blame Mankins for saying no. He's hasn't got a ton of years left in this league & why not go where the most money is before you retire? It makes sense unless you end in Jacksonville. LOL! 

 

I'd be so furious if NE wins the SB this year if I was Logan though. Darn it! 

[Shane Bond]

I always wonder when they ask a player to "take a paycut" what that really means? I mean are we talking about $100,000 or like $2,000,000?

I can't blame Mankins for saying no. He's hasn't got a ton of years left in this league & why not go where the most money is before you retire? It makes sense unless you end in Jacksonville. LOL!

I'd be so furious if NE wins the SB this year if I was Logan though. Darn it!

If that's the reason for Logan to get furious, he will never.

[southwest1]

If that's the reason for Logan to get furious, he will never.

It just depends what Mankins values more now: Money or a ring? Me, I shoot for NFL immortality because if you get a piece of diamond jewelry commercials & endorsements come out of woodwork because sponsors love Championship winners baby. They salivate over them pitching your product. 

 

That's another reason why I respect NE & INDY: They make no illusions for why we play this game: The bling baby forget trivial stats.

 

I just admire that NE fans & INDY fans for saying that publicly. It's not selfish either. You just know what in the hades you want & got Revis Island & Brandon Browner to achieve that goal. It's the same reason INDY signed WR Hakeem Nicks & RB Ahmad Bradshaw from the NY Giants. 

 

"By any means necessary" Malcolm X was exactly right. 

[ViriLudant]

Chad Johnson

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

2001 Cincinnati Bengals 12 3 28 329 11.9 28 1

2002 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 69 1,166 16.9 72 5

2003 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 90 1,355 15.1 82 10

2004 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 95 1,274 13.4 53 9 4 39 9.8 18 0 1 0

2005 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 97 1,432 14.8 70 9 5 33 6.6 11 0 1 0

2006 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 87 1,369 15.7 74 7 6 24 4.0 8 0 1 1

2007 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 93 1,440 15.5 70 8 6 47 7.8 16 0 2 1

2008 Cincinnati Bengals 13 10 53 540 10.2 26 4

2009 Cincinnati Bengals 16 15 72 1,047 14.5 50 9 3 32 10.7 26 0 2 2

2010 Cincinnati Bengals 14 12 67 831 12.4 42 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

2011 New England Patriots 15 3 15 276 18.4 53 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Look at this numbers prior to NE and with NE.

Grand total of 276 yards. Even his rookie year he had 329.

Jabar Gaffney

2006 NE 11 11 20 142 12.9 33 1 9 0 0

2007 NE 16 36 50 449 12.5 56 5 21 0 0

2008 NE 16 38 65 468 12.3 37 2 26 0 0

2009 DEN 16 54 88 732 13.6 49 2 36 0 0

2010 DEN 16 65 112 875 13.5 50 2 42 1 0

2011 WSH 16 68 115 947 13.9 45 5 50 1 1

Look at his numbers after he left the Patriots.

Seriously?

THIS is your weak response?

Ocho was an * who couldn't handle a complex scheme, and his NFL career was on the decline. How'd he do after NE?

JABAR GAFFNEY?!

The #3/4 WR?! Moss and Welker were Brady's primary target.

Holy dear god. I can feel the breeze from here on your swing and miss!

[ViriLudant]

I dont know what else to show you other than stats and you have a complete blind eye towards it.

Thats right, he was washed up before he came to Pats. You clearly know better than Belichick .

If he wasn't washed up, why didn't ANY NFL teams pick him up? Don't give me off the field nonsense; I can point to hundreds of examples where NFL teams picked up guys who got in trouble.

[ViriLudant]

Man you come with these fancy articles and more you do, it looks more sillier .

So let me get this, Chad Johnson had 7 over 1000 yards seasons by running the route he wanted and pissing the QB.

Time to move on with this buddy.

And this is why you're incapable of having a debate with.

FACT: CJ sucked as a Patriot.

FACT: no one wanted him afterwards .

FACT: his career ended because he was done. Washed up.

[jvan1973]

If he wasn't washed up, why didn't ANY NFL teams pick him up? Don't give me off the field nonsense; I can point to hundreds of examples where NFL teams picked up guys who got in trouble.

Please cite at least 100..... and Go....

[Shane Bond]

Please cite at least 100..... and Go....

This third leg of unholy trinity has arrived and just spits garbage outside topic, not even worth it  .

[LordHelpOurColts]

Brady is definitely perturbed by it. Why wouldn't he be? It's not like he's mobile. He damn near looks crippled every time he tries to run.

[southwest1]

I don't doubt they did see it but maybe they thought they could get Chad to run the routes. He and Bill had a long history. Had been friends for quite some time. So I can see Bill thinking that he could get Chad to play the way he wanted. Remember he did get Chad to stay quiet and not do his normal media theatrics so it was clear that Chad had bought into the Patriot Way but perhaps he just could not revamp his game. I think that is it and his skills had also diminished a lot.

I remember something  LB Tedy Bruschi & ESPN NFL analyst said on air once. "Stop being mesmerized by how effectively Tom Brady executes on the field & learn your darn playbook Chad!" 

 

I can't recall if Tedy was a guest of owner Robert Kraft or not meaning if Bruschi was there watching Johnson at a game or merely commenting on what he saw on TV & heard 2nd hand by current NE players onsite. 

 

When Tedy calls out a WR that's not good. Yes, he played defense & Chad was on offense. I get the difference there, but Tedy knows what Bill expects from players & how complicated their responsibilities are. I won't call Chad a mo-ron, but it was pretty clear he was having trouble soaking up the playbook & applying the formations in live game speed. A comprehension breakdown vs a physical skill set issue IMO. 

[southwest1]

 Randy Moss was a beast though. I can't lie.

I always wonder if Moss didn't go "Really, you went with Chad instead of giving me a phone call? You knew my darn number Bill. I'm sure that Tommy still has it in his phone." 

 

Randy might have been with the 49ers at this point or even the Vikings I can't remember anymore. But, I always picture Mr. "Straight Cash Homey" saying that. 

[The Old Crow]

If he was any good they would have kept him even with the domestic abuse. Look at the Ravens and Ray Rice.

Certainly not the Honeymooners !

[Shane Bond]

It just depends what Mankins values more now: Money or a ring? Me, I shoot for NFL immortality because if you get a piece of diamond jewelry commercials & endorsements come out of woodwork because sponsors love Championship winners baby. They salivate over them pitching your product. 

 

That's another reason why I respect NE & INDY: They make no illusions for why we play this game: The bling baby forget trivial stats.

 

I just admire that NE fans & INDY fans for saying that publicly. It's not selfish either. You just know what in the hades you want & got Revis Island & Brandon Browner to achieve that goal. It's the same reason INDY signed WR Hakeem Nicks & RB Ahmad Bradshaw from the NY Giants. 

 

"By any means necessary" Malcolm X was exactly right. 

What i meant is he doesn't have to worry about NE winning a championship anytime soon

[bap1331]

Pats: We need you to take a pay cut

Logan: No...

Pats: k...heres your punishment...

*trades Logan Mankins to Buccaneers*

[Shane Bond]

Seriously?

THIS is your weak response?

Ocho was an * who couldn't handle a complex scheme, and his NFL career was on the decline. How'd he do after NE?

JABAR GAFFNEY?!

The #3/4 WR?! Moss and Welker were Brady's primary target.

Holy dear god. I can feel the breeze from here on your swing and miss!

More you talk more dumber you look with football.

 

Do you even read the posts or can you read?. Right before he came to NE, he ad 840 yards in 14 games, thats decline?. Truth is your team couldn't mould him. Period

[Shane Bond]

If he wasn't washed up, why didn't ANY NFL teams pick him up? Don't give me off the field nonsense; I can point to hundreds of examples where NFL teams picked up guys who got in trouble.

Cant wait to see your 100 examples.

[Shane Bond]

And this is why you're incapable of having a debate with.

FACT: CJ sucked as a Patriot.

FACT: no one wanted him afterwards .

FACT: his career ended because he was done. Washed up.

 

LOL, what are you in kinder garden?. They can talk football better.

 

Your own pats nation, Belichick, Brady everyone agrees what a big loss Mankins is. And you run your mouth off saying he was washed up and lived with reputation. What a joke. 

[amfootball]

Good point if fat albert ie Albert  Haynesworth would have been in shape & eaten less Dunkin' Doughnuts the Pats might have won that SB LOL! 

 

BB & Mike Shanahan are close friends & I don't think Mike misled Bill here. He clued Bill into how lazy & lethargic Albert really was. 

True. They knew about Albert but were desperate to get someone on the line given the shortened FA period. That being said, Albert was a model citizen here. He came to work every day, worked his tail off but in the end he just was not suited for the scheme on defense. He was let go not because of his behavior but because of his performance.

[amfootball]

I remember something  LB Tedy Bruschi & ESPN NFL analyst said on air once. "Stop being mesmerized by how effectively Tom Brady executes on the field & learn your darn playbook Chad!" 

 

I can't recall if Tedy was a guest of owner Robert Kraft or not meaning if Bruschi was there watching Johnson at a game or merely commenting on what he saw on TV & heard 2nd hand by current NE players onsite. 

 

When Tedy calls out a WR that's not good. Yes, he played defense & Chad was on offense. I get the difference there, but Tedy knows what Bill expects from players & how complicated their responsibilities are. I won't call Chad a mo-ron, but it was pretty clear he was having trouble soaking up the playbook & applying the formations in live game speed. A comprehension breakdown vs a physical skill set issue IMO. 

No question. Chad had a tough time with the play book. He pretty much admitted that after he left the Pats. But his physical abilities had deteriorated as well. He go no separation. No down field speed to get open. And of course he never played in the league again after the Pats let him go.

[amfootball]

I always wonder when they ask a player to "take a paycut" what that really means? I mean are we talking about $100,000 or like $2,000,000? 

 

I can't blame Mankins for saying no. He's hasn't got a ton of years left in this league & why not go where the most money is before you retire? It makes sense unless you end in Jacksonville. LOL! 

 

I'd be so furious if NE wins the SB this year if I was Logan though. Darn it! 

I don't blame him either as players should make what they can when they can BUT he could have done what Wilfork did. He could have realized that at age 32 with injuries mounting the last couple of years and his best play behind him that a restructure was coming. That is the way it works in the NFL. He signed a SIX year contract in 2010 and he knew he would never see the end of it. It is what it is. He is getting his money from the Bucs but what the Pats did is common practice for a player like him and the exact opposite scenario played out with Wilfork just a couple of months ago.

[amfootball]

Cant wait to see your 100 examples.

Pretty much one fourth if not higher of NFL rosters have guys that have been in trouble/arrested whether it be drug abuse, domestic violence, etc. Just this past off-season alone, there were 22 arrests of NFL players, http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-02-18/nfl-players-arrested-in-2014-photos-ray-rice-darren-sharper-kellen-winslow/slide/15

 

In 2013, there were 38, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1686301-every-nfl-player-arrested-in-2013

 

Here is a comprehensive list of NFL arrests since 2000, there are 714 entries, http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/

 

 

And remember with Chad, his domestic violence charge was the FIRST time in his career ever being in trouble off the field so if he still had the goods, he would have been in high demand.

[Shane Bond]

I can't wait to see the OL crumble this year

[amfootball]

I can't wait to see the OL crumble this year

Yeah the Colts OL is horrible. ;)  Perhaps you should have given the number one for Mankins. You guys could use him more.

[Shane Bond]

Yeah the Colts OL is horrible. ;) Perhaps you should have given the number one for Mankins. You guys could use him more.

Well the good news is your OL just got a lot worse.