Injured Reserve or Injury Settlement?

[PrincetonTiger]

What do prefer as an outcome for Donald Thomas?

Injured Reserve or Injury Settlement

[PrincetonTiger]

I uses Injury Settlement

[Dustin]

Injury settlement. I think it's quite clear Thornton and Mewhort are our guards of the future and we'll need all the cap space we can get for the 2012 draft class.

[PrincetonTiger]

Injury settlement. I think it's quite clear Thornton and Mewhort are our guards of the future and we'll need all the cap space we can get for the 2012 draft class.

Agreed

[TKnight24]

Injury settlement. I think it's quite clear Thornton and Mewhort are our guards of the future and we'll need all the cap space we can get for the 2012 draft class.

https://twitter.com/ColtsNation_94/status/494866054737190913

[Dustin]

https://twitter.com/ColtsNation_94/status/494866054737190913

 

hmmm

[PrincetonTiger]

https://twitter.com/ColtsNation_94/status/494866054737190913

For how long

[Valpo2004]

Keep him on IR, if we where hurting for cap space I might say an injury settlement.  

 

He could be an asset in the future, no sense in giving up our rights on him.  

[PrincetonTiger]

Keep him on IR, if we where hurting for cap space I might say an injury settlement.  

 

He could be an asset in the future, no sense in giving up our rights on him.

How?

Mewhort and Thornton are going to be entrenched as the starters unless they bomb this year

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Keep him on IR, if we where hurting for cap space I might say an injury settlement.  

 

He could be an asset in the future, no sense in giving up our rights on him.  

 

I was just saying in another post that this is the 3rd time Thomas has been IR'd for an entire season. Twice now for the quad, and once for a Lisfranc fracture. I hate parting ways with someone who's clearly talented, but it's not doing the team any good having him on IR every year. a la Bob Sanders.

[Valpo2004]

How?

Mewhort and Thornton are going to be entrenched as the starters unless they bomb this year

 

Unless they bomb this year or they take a major injury and have a hard time coming back.  

 

Putting him on IR now doesn't prevent us from cutting him in camp next year. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Unless they bomb this year or they take a major injury and have a hard time coming back.  

 

Putting him on IR now doesn't prevent us from cutting him in camp next year.

I have a feeling he will be cut in camp this year

[Valpo2004]

I was just saying in another post that this is the 3rd time Thomas has been IR'd for an entire season. Twice now for the quad, and once for a Lisfranc fracture. I hate parting ways with someone who's clearly talented, but it's not doing the team any good having him on IR every year. a la Bob Sanders.

 

Bob Sanders I'm pretty sure was likely taking up a much bigger portion of the cap.

 

On top of that Mewhort hasn't played in a single game yet and Thornton wasn't that good last year.  We have high hopes for both but we have to account for the fact that they COULD fail. . . or get hurt.

 

None of this prevents us from releasing Thomas next year in camp.  And I'm certainly not advocating we re-sign him.

[Superman]

Unless they bomb this year or they take a major injury and have a hard time coming back.  

 

Putting him on IR now doesn't prevent us from cutting him in camp next year. 

 

The question is whether it's worth it to pay the guy this year's salary, when you don't think he'll be back next year. You do an injury settlement, let him rehab this year, save a significant portion of his $3.5m base salary, and then maybe give him a one year prove it deal next year. If you even think it's worth it. He might be done. The money isn't a big deal, neither is the cap space. But at some point, you have to cut bait. And if you anticipate that you're going to cut bait prior to next season, then the injury settlement makes sense.

 

Also, keep in mind that cap space isn't a year to year proposition. You can carry cap space over from year to year, so if we save $2-3m against the cap this year with an injury settlement, that helps in the coming seasons. Again, not a big deal, but if he never plays another down for us, it will have been wasted cap space, for no reason.

[Superman]

Also, you don't reach an injury settlement in one day. And you can't release an injured player until you've reached an injury settlement. So placing Thomas on IR frees the roster spot now (he's a vested veteran, so no waivers), and it allows the team to decide what they want to do moving forward.

[PrincetonTiger]

The question is whether it's worth it to pay the guy this year's salary, when you don't think he'll be back next year. You do an injury settlement, let him rehab this year, save a significant portion of his $3.5m base salary, and then maybe give him a one year prove it deal next year. If you even think it's worth it. He might be done. The money isn't a big deal, neither is the cap space. But at some point, you have to cut bait. And if you anticipate that you're going to cut bait prior to next season, then the injury settlement makes sense.

 

Also, keep in mind that cap space isn't a year to year proposition. You can carry cap space over from year to year, so if we save $2-3m against the cap this year with an injury settlement, that helps in the coming seasons. Again, not a big deal, but if he never plays another down for us, it will have been wasted cap space, for no reason.

My thoughts exactly

[PrincetonTiger]

Also, you don't reach an injury settlement in one day. And you can't release an injured player until you've reached an injury settlement. So placing Thomas on IR frees the roster spot now (he's a vested veteran, so no waivers), and it allows the team to decide what they want to do moving forward.

Nicely put

[Valpo2004]

Also, you don't reach an injury settlement in one day. And you can't release an injured player until you've reached an injury settlement. So placing Thomas on IR frees the roster spot now (he's a vested veteran, so no waivers), and it allows the team to decide what they want to do moving forward.

 

Just want to point out that they still havn't reached an injury settlement for Fili Moala which everyone seemed to think they should do that.  

 

I honestly don't think we'll cut him this year. 

[lollygagger8]

I'm still in shock I think, but I believe Thomas is too injury prone to use a roster spot on him. Which is a shame because he did play well in his very short time playing here. (2 games I think) <- geesh 

[bavanlan]

People aren't grasping the concept of an injury settlement.

An injury settlement occurs when there's inconsistent beliefs about the severity of an injury and when the player can play again.

None of those are at issue here because no one believes he's playing this year.

[Superman]

Just want to point out that they still havn't reached an injury settlement for Fili Moala which everyone seemed to think they should do that.  

 

I honestly don't think we'll cut him this year. 

 

Moala has a much smaller salary. 

 

I don't think it's a big deal either way, and I'm not advocating for it. Just saying I can see the potential benefit, especially in light of your comment that "they can just cut him next year if he can't go in camp." It would make this year's salary a total waste. And we drafted a guy that everyone thinks can be THE GUY, and he's presumably going to get a chance to play this year, which will help him be even more prepared to be THE GUY next season.

 

On the other hand, the injury might not be as severe as it was last year. And with the other lower body work that Thomas has done, according to Grigson, maybe he's in better shape to recover than he was a year ago. He also has an extra 5-6 weeks to get ready for camp. This is the stuff the doctors and personnel guys have to decide. And while $2-3m in cap space is nothing to turn your nose up at, it's not going to really change the team's approach in the future. 

[Superman]

People aren't grasping the concept of an injury settlement.

An injury settlement occurs when there's inconsistent beliefs about the severity of an injury and when the player can play again.

None of those are at issue here because no one believes he's playing this year.

 

The two sides would still have to reach a settlement in order for him to be released, because he can't be released while injured. The settlement would waive his injury protections under the CBA and clear the team of liability.

 

No?

[PrincetonTiger]

People aren't grasping the concept of an injury settlement.

An injury settlement occurs when there's inconsistent beliefs about the severity of an injury and when the player can play again.

None of those are at issue here because no one believes he's playing this year.

Not really

It is often used to cut down the rosters and/or trim salary

[Patagonia Chris]

I'm pretty sure that cutting him in the next off-season would net the team over 3 million in cap space so i dont see him coming back. It would probably be cheaper for the team to just cut him next year as oppossed to giving him an injury settlement.

[bavanlan]

The two sides would still have to reach a settlement in order for him to be released, because he can't be released while injured. The settlement would waive his injury protections under the CBA and clear the team of liability.

No?

He can be released when injured at the end of the year without a settlement. He keeps all money earned.

The only tinge you see a settlement is where a player gets put on IR but thinks he can still play, or where a team thinks a player is healthy to release mid-season and the player thinks he's too injured to be released.

[PrincetonTiger]

I'm pretty sure that cutting him in the next off-season would net the team over 3 million in cap space so i dont see him coming back. It would probably be cheaper for the team to just cut him next year as oppossed to giving him an injury settlement.

An injury settlement ends the contract the instance it is given

[bavanlan]

Not really

It is often used to cut down the rosters and/or trim salary

I know what it is.

Go ahead, please pitch me as the player to accept a settlement in the case.

[Superman]

He can be released when injured at the end of the year without a settlement. He keeps all money earned.

The only tinge you see a settlement is where a player gets put on IR but thinks he can still play, or where a team thinks a player is healthy to release mid-season and the player thinks he's too injured to be released.

 

So that means the only way the team can release him prior to the end of the year is if he agrees to take a settlement, and unless he thinks he can play, there's no reason for him to take a settlement and no way for the team to compel him to do so.

[bavanlan]

So that means the only way the team can release him prior to the end of the year is if he agrees to take a settlement, and unless he thinks he can play, there's no reason for him to take a settlement and no way for the team to compel him to do so.

Nailed it.

[PrincetonTiger]

Nailed it.

The team is in charge not the other way around

[Superman]

Nailed it.

 

I always assumed there was some protection for the team from situations like this. Thomas hasn't earned his salary, and his contract isn't guaranteed until Week 1. But since he can't be released prior to then, due to his injury, the team is forced to pay a player that can't play for them. And that's where I thought the injury settlement procedure offered some out to the team. Guess I was wrong...

[Superman]

The team is in charge not the other way around

 

The CBA protects injured players in this case. The rules explicitly state that an injured player can't be released. So the team really isn't in charge. The only out they'd have would be if the rules somehow compel an injured player to accept a settlement. 

[bavanlan]

I always assumed there was some protection for the team from situations like this. Thomas hasn't earned his salary, and his contract isn't guaranteed until Week 1. But since he can't be released prior to then, due to his injury, the team is forced to pay a player that can't play for them. And that's where I thought the injury settlement procedure offered some out to the team. Guess I was wrong...

Thomas got hurt while participating in a team training activity. The CBA shifts the responsibility for that injury to the team. It's inequitable for the team to force the player to participate, get him injured, and then release him with no payment and no ability to work elsewhere in the NFL.

The team is protected because it will only be responsible for a year's worth of salary, regardless of the length of the injury.

[PrincetonTiger]

The CBA protects injured players in this case. The rules explicitly state that an injured player can't be released. So the team really isn't in charge. The only out they'd have would be if the rules somehow compel an injured player to accept a settlement.

The CBA protects both sides

[Superman]

Thomas got hurt while participating in a team training activity. The CBA shifts the responsibility for that injury to the team. It's inequitable for the team to force the player to participate, get him injured, and then release him with no payment and no ability to work elsewhere in the NFL.

The team is protected because it will only be responsible for a year's worth of salary, regardless of the length of the injury.

 

The bolded would be the point of the injury settlement. 

 

Either way, I get it. I'm assuming you're right, because you're bav. If I find out that you've misled me... well, I guess nothing. It's not a big deal at all. Carry on.

[PrincetonTiger]

The bolded would be the point of the injury settlement. 

 

Exactly

[bavanlan]

The bolded would be the point of the injury settlement.

Either way, I get it. I'm assuming you're right, because you're bav. If I find out that you've misled me... well, I guess nothing. It's not a big deal at all. Carry on.

Think of it this way; the team assumes this risk when they sign a player. It's why they will also bring players in over the off-season for "voluntary tryouts" because they don't have the same liability (and don't count against your roster limits). Remember when the Titans banned Steve McNair from the training facility? Same thing. They didn't want him to get hurt and be responsible for his huge salary they needed to unload.

[bavanlan]

Exactly

I really would love to hear your pitch.

I'll start as the player.

Player: Hi. I understand you want to talk settlement. I have a torn quad and have no belief that I can play this year. I'm entitled under the CBA to my full salary this year. What are you offering?

[Patagonia Chris]

An injury settlement ends the contract the instance it is given

 

Yeah but with over 9 Million dollars left on the contract in base salary, I don't see his team settling for that much left. The only way the Colts would come out money ahead on an injury settlement is if Thomas took less than 3 million for it. No way that happens.

[PrincetonTiger]

I really would love to hear your pitch.

I'll start as the player.

Player: Hi. I understand you want to talk settlement. I have a torn quad and have no belief that I can play this year. I'm entitled under the CBA to my full salary this year. What are you offering?

I have nothing against paying him his 2914 salary I just do not see him helping the Colts in the future and really think it is a waste of his time and the Colts time sitting on the IR.

What can he do in 2015?