Ray Rice Suspended

[PrincetonTiger]

The NFL has just announced that Ravens RB Ray Rice has been suspended 2 Games after an Altercation at acAtlantic City Casino

[Richmond Raven]

Only-2?

[PrincetonTiger]

Only-2?

It wasn't even clear what actually went down

[Bobbycovert]

It wasn't even clear what actually went down

I think the combination of footage, eye witness reports, and apology make it far from vague.  He should be out 4 games minimum.

[PrincetonTiger]

I think the combination of footage, eye witness reports, and apology make it far from vague. He should be out 4 games minimum.

Thanks for the info

I was referring more to the info I had read

[Valpo2004]

Really surprises me that he only got suspended 2 games.  

[PrincetonTiger]

Really surprises me that he only got suspended 2 games.

A very odd number

[Valpo2004]

It sounds like there are some conflicting reports in which some say that she might have hit him first.  So perhaps the 2 games is just based on the complete lack of clarity as to what exactly happened.

 

The video people talk about apparently doesn't show much.  

 

It would be good if I could get a unbiased article that tells the full story as to who hit who first, what the video actually shows etc etc.  

 

Also worth remembering that Rice hasn't been charged with a crime.  They don't need his wife's permission or testimony to charge him with a crime if they have other evidence to support it, so it sounds like things are not actually very clear cut. 

[jmac_48]

Really surprises me that he only got suspended 2 games.  

Does that mean that beating down your woman is only half as bad as smoking a doobie?

[PrincetonTiger]

It sounds like there are some conflicting reports in which some say that she might have hit him first.  So perhaps the 2 games is just based on the complete lack of clarity as to what exactly happened.

 

The video people talk about apparently doesn't show much.  

 

It would be good if I could get a unbiased article that tells the full story as to who hit who first, what the video actually shows etc etc.  

 

Also worth remembering that Rice hasn't been charged with a crime.  They don't need his wife's permission or testimony to charge him with a crime if they have other evidence to support it, so it sounds like things are not actually very clear cut.

I can't believe that the NFL didn't wait until charges were filed to suspend him

[Bobbycovert]

It sounds like there are some conflicting reports in which some say that she might have hit him first.  So perhaps the 2 games is just based on the complete lack of clarity as to what exactly happened.

 

The video people talk about apparently doesn't show much.  

 

It would be good if I could get a unbiased article that tells the full story as to who hit who first, what the video actually shows etc etc.  

 

Also worth remembering that Rice hasn't been charged with a crime.  They don't need his wife's permission or testimony to charge him with a crime if they have other evidence to support it, so it sounds like things are not actually very clear cut. 

  Terrelle Pryor was suspended five games for breaking NCAA rules vs Ray Rice being suspended two games for knocking his fiance unconscious. It just seems ridiculous to me.  Also, I couldn't care less who swung first. 

[amfootball]

This seems very hasty. Why not wait before handing out this suspension. And for it not to be at least 4 games seems insane to me. What a terrible message by the NFL.

[PrincetonTiger]

This seems very hasty. Why not wait before handing out this suspension. And for it not to be at least 4 games seems insane to me. What a terrible message by the NFL.

My thoughts exactly

[Valpo2004]

  Terrelle Pryor was suspended five games for breaking NCAA rules vs Ray Rice being suspended two games for knocking his fiance unconscious. It just seems ridiculous to me.  Also, I couldn't care less who swung first. 

 

From what I'm reading him knocking her out was a rumor.

 

And who started the violence is to me very critical.  I'm sorry I don't buy into this idea that a real man should stand there and take it just cause it's a woman.  She's an adult too, decisions have consequences including decisions to become violent with another person.  

 

A grown up consequence of becoming violent with someone bigger and stronger then you is that you may get hit back and hurt in the process.  

 

Mature adults female or male don't start violence.  But I don't buy into the idea that either one should have to stand there and take it, even if the person starting the violence is smaller then them. 

[amfootball]

From what I'm reading him knocking her out was a rumor.

 

And who started the violence is to me very critical.  I'm sorry I don't buy into this idea that a real man should stand there and take it just cause it's a woman.  She's an adult too.  

Did you see the video where he is carrying her unconscious?  And you believe a man should a hit a woman not walk away?

[Shane Bond]

Did you see the video where he is carrying her unconscious?  And you believe a man should a hit a woman not walk away?

Did he admit he hit her or is there a video evidence?.

[amfootball]

Did he admit he hit her or is there a video evidence?.

Yes he did. And he apologized for it as well. Yes there is a video of her unconscious.

[Shane Bond]

Yes he did. And he apologized for it as well. Yes there is a video of her unconscious.

I saw the unconscious video but i didnt see a live hitting video.

 

Well, if he has admitted, then there it is.

[PrincetonTiger]

Yes he did. And he apologized for it as well. Yes there is a video of her unconscious.

As I said early I can't believe the NFL didn't suspend him longer or wait to formal charges were made

[Valpo2004]

Did you see the video where he is carrying her unconscious?  And you believe a man should a hit a woman not walk away?

 

I think if a woman hits him first he has every right to respond violently in proportion to stop her attacks.  Yes.  (I'm saying this as a general rule I honestly have no idea what happened between Rice and his wife.)

 

To say that he should just walk away is silly.  First of all walking away isn't always an option and secondly saying that infantilizes women.  If women are adults capable of making decisions that have adult consequences and dealing with those adult consequences then they should not at any point be shielded from those consequences.  If I go up and hit Ray Rice I'd expect he'd hit me back and given that he's a professional football player and I'm a slightly overweight guy who's entirely un-athletic I would expect that he would likely win that fight.  

 

Of course personally I wouldn't walk up and hit anyone no matter what I felt my odds where of winning.  Because I don't believe in starting violent confrontations.

 

The first grown up rule about violence is that it's not a good idea to start violent confrontations because if you do you could end up hurt.  I think women can handle those consequences.

[PrincetonTiger]

Grady and Big Joe are talking about it on 1070

[amfootball]

I think if a woman hits him first he has every right to respond violently in proportion to stop her attacks.  Yes.  

 

To say that he should just walk away is silly.  First of all walking away isn't always an option and secondly saying that infantilizes women.  If women are adults capable of making decisions that have adult consequences and dealing with those adult consequences then they should not at any point be shielded from those consequences.  

 

The first grown up rule about violence is that it's not a good idea to start violent confrontations because if you do you could end up hurt.  I think women can handle those consequences.

So by that logic is Ok for an adult to strike a child who is violent toward them?

[Bobbycovert]

From what I'm reading him knocking her out was a rumor.

 

And who started the violence is to me very critical.  I'm sorry I don't buy into this idea that a real man should stand there and take it just cause it's a woman.  She's an adult too.  

 I hope you realize that there are more options than A) take it or B) knock your girlfriend unconscious.   If it is just a rumor he threw me for a loop by apologizing for it.  Very sneaky...

[Valpo2004]

So by that logic is Ok for an adult to strike a child who is violent toward them?

 

Depends on the age and capabilities of a child.  

 

A 16 year old attacking you is different from a 7 year old attacking you.

 

If a young child attacks you, then you can restrain them rather easily.  Recalling that I said these things where adult consequences.  

 

This isn't necessarily true of adult women.  If you watched the video JayZ's presumably trained bodyguard was having a hard time at restraining his sister in law.  

 

If he hadn't had the bodyguard there . . . how was he going to walk away?  He was in an elevator!  

[amfootball]

Depends on the age and capabilities of a child.  

 

A 16 year old attacking you is different from a 7 year old attacking you.

 

If a young child attacks you, then you can restrain them rather easily.  

 

This isn't necessarily true of adult women.  If you watched the video JayZ's presumably trained bodyguard was having a hard time at it.

Ok then don't you think most men could restrain a woman who they are physically bigger/stronger then without knocking then unconscious? The degree here of retaliation is what is heinous. A man has every right to defend himself from injury and restrain the woman without knocking her out. And in this situation we are talking about Ray Rice who physically dominates his fiancé.

[Gramz]

I think if a woman hits him first he has every right to respond violently in proportion to stop her attacks.  Yes.  (I'm saying this as a general rule I honestly have no idea what happened between Rice and his wife.)

 

To say that he should just walk away is silly.  First of all walking away isn't always an option and secondly saying that infantilizes women.  If women are adults capable of making decisions that have adult consequences and dealing with those adult consequences then they should not at any point be shielded from those consequences.  If I go up and hit Ray Rice I'd expect he'd hit me back and given that he's a professional football player and I'm a slightly overweight guy who's entirely un-athletic I would expect that he would likely win that fight.  

 

Of course personally I wouldn't walk up and hit anyone no matter what I felt my odds where of winning.  Because I don't believe in starting violent confrontations.

 

The first grown up rule about violence is that it's not a good idea to start violent confrontations because if you do you could end up hurt.  I think women can handle those consequences.

Ridiculous  ~  I find it hard to believe that a man of his "size" and strength  couldn't restrain a woman from hitting him, without resorting to violence himself.

[PrincetonTiger]

Ridiculous  ~  I find it hard to believe that a man of his "size" and strength  couldn't restrain a woman from hitting him, without resorting to violence himself.

Agreed

[Bobbycovert]

Depends on the age and capabilities of a child.  

 

A 16 year old attacking you is different from a 7 year old attacking you.

 

If a young child attacks you, then you can restrain them rather easily.  Recalling that I said these things where adult consequences.  

 

This isn't necessarily true of adult women.  If you watched the video JayZ's presumably trained bodyguard was having a hard time at restraining his sister in law.  

 

If he hadn't had the bodyguard there . . . how was he going to walk away?  He was in an elevator!  

Ok I'll bite.  What about old ladies?  How about the disabled?  Where do I draw the line when dishing out "adult consequences"?

[Valpo2004]

Ok then don't you think most men could restrain a woman who they are physically bigger/stronger then without knocking then unconscious? The degree here of retaliation is what is heinous. A man has every right to defend himself from injury and restrain the woman without knocking her out. And in this situation we are talking about Ray Rice who physically dominates his fiancé.

 

As I also said he has a right to respond violently in proportion to the attack.  If he went overboard then he's culpable for going overboard, but still less culpable then someone who started the violence in the first place.  

 

So while I would say, yeah he probably went overboard in his self defense I'm not gonna go feeling sorry for his wife if she started the violence in the first place.  If I hit Ray Rice and he knocked me out. . . no one would feel sorry for me.  

 

The decision to engage in violence itself is an adult decision and women are at no more of a disadvantage then men at that.  The violence may be physical but the decision to start it is entirely mental.  And so if she started the fight, I don't feel sorry for her, in fact I would recommend she get help.

[BrentMc11]

BrentMc11's Rule number 1: Never hit a woman or a child

 

BrentMc11's Rule number 2:  See number 1!

[Shane Bond]

Ever heard of Ronda Roussey. There are some strong women out there people.    :disco:

[amfootball]

As I also said he has a right to respond violently in proportion to the attack.  If he went overboard then he's culpable for going overboard, but still less culpable then someone who started the violence in the first place.  

 

So while I would say, yeah he probably went overboard in his self defense I'm not gonna go feeling sorry for his wife if she started the violence in the first place.  If I hit Ray Rice and he knocked me out. . . no one would feel sorry for me.  

 

The decision to engage in violence itself is an adult decision and women are at no more of a disadvantage then men at that.  The violence may be physical but the decision to start it is entirely mental.  And so if she started the fight, I don't feel sorry for her, in fact I would recommend she get help.

I guess we will just disagree here as I don't believe a man should ever hit a woman except in self-defense. And of course we don't know what provoked her in the first place or if she was the one to get violent first.

[Valpo2004]

Ok I'll bite.  What about old ladies?  How about the disabled?  Where do I draw the line when dishing out "adult consequences"?

 

You make it sound like I relish the counter violence.  I'm saying there are consequences to starting a violent confrontation and counter violence is one.  

 

The old may not have the same mental capacity.  

 

And quite frankly I don't think I've ever seen a person who's disabled but fully mentally capable start a violent attack.  However if they did and where fully mentally capable then, they start the attack it's their fault when they get hurt doing it.

[Valpo2004]

I guess we will just disagree here as I don't believe a man should ever hit a woman except in self-defense. And of course we don't know what provoked her in the first place or if she was the one to get violent first.

 

You don't believe a man should hit a woman except in self defense. . . Isn't that the same thing I'm saying??

 

I'm just saying if she hit him first, he has the right to defend himself including hitting her back.

 

I'm not here advocating that a man start violence with a woman. . . in fact quite frankly I'd say just the opposite, I don't believe in starting violent confrontations at all no matter the size, gender, or age of the other person.

 

But I do believe in being able to defend yourself.

[21isSuperman]

Does that mean that beating down your woman is only half as bad as smoking a doobie?

This is what I thought too.  What a terrible decision by the league.  Not just beating her, but with Rice's size, the force he could generate could cause some serious long-term damage.  2 games is far too short for beating someone.  I find it so savage and pathetic that the only way they could resolve their issue (if it even got resolved) was to resort to violence.  I don't know what the exact story is, but to knock your girlfriend/fiance unconscious is worthy of far more than a 2 game suspension

 

Ever heard of Ronda Roussey. There are some strong women out there people.    :disco:

I'm a big Rousey fan!  She scares the heck outta me though.  I wouldn't wanna make her mad

[amfootball]

You don't believe a man should hit a woman except in self defense. . . Isn't that the same thing I'm saying??

 

I'm just saying if she hit him first, he has the right to defend himself including hitting her back.

No. Because he knocked her out. A man of his size could have restrained her without punching her back. There are so many other options then doing what he did. And when I say self-defense, I don't mean a closed fist punch to the face.

[CR91]

So let me get this straight. Rice punches a woman, gets suspended two games. Mathis takes pills to have a child, gets suspended 4 games. Anyone else see something wrong with this

[Valpo2004]

No. Because he knocked her out. A man of his size could have restrained her without punching her back. There are so many other options then doing what he did. And when I say self-defense, I don't mean a closed fist punch to the face.

 

How do you know, you where not there.  

 

Now I admit that most likely his response was not proportional and so he is culpable for that.  But he's still less culpable then her presuming she started it.  If I attacked Ray Rice no one would be worried about a disproportional response.

 

Lets up it and say I attacked an NFL offensive lineman.  I'm a chubby 225. . . an NFL offensive lineman probably has a greater size advantage over me then the 5'7" Ray Rice has over his wife.  If I went and tried to punch a 300 pound NFL offensive lineman. . . how many people do you think would be feeling sorry for me after he laid my butt out?  I guarantee no one would be worried about me, they would just call me stupid for trying to start a fight with a guy that's bigger and stronger then me.  And they would be right.

 

And Jay-Z's bodyguard is a lot bigger then Ray Rice and he was having trouble with Jay-Z's sister in law. . . And she wasn't attacking him which is an advantage because all he had to do was hold her back not try to attempt to stop attacks from 4 different limbs at once.

[PrincetonTiger]

So let me get this straight. Rice punches a woman, gets suspended two games. Mathis takes pills to have a child, gets suspended 4 games. Anyone else see something wrong with this

Grady and Big Joe said the same thing

[Gramz]

So let me get this straight. Rice punches a woman, gets suspended two games. Mathis takes pills to have a child, gets suspended 4 games. Anyone else see something wrong with this

  raising hand here ;)