Jaworski has Luck as Top-5 Quarterback.....

[Gavin]

I don't know why, but I missed Romo in that previous post. Disregard...

Chalk it up to the intense debate  ;)

[Shane Bond]

I'm a big Luck fan . Good kid, great attitude , etc. He just needs to get over his postseason issues. That'll come. Not sure if he's quite top 5, but certainly close.

He just finished 2 years in NFL and he already has post season issues??. He inherited a team which went 2-14.

He cameback 28 points down to win a post season game.

Where do you come up with these random lines?.

[Shane Bond]

You're just gonna keep using that flimsy argument over and over again?

I thought he gave facts. What's so flimsy about it?.

[The Old Crow]

I don't really care what the projections are, or where he sits in the poll, the kid is the real deal. First two seasons have been great, he knows how to win. He's a number one pick for a reason, and will command big bucks. Even as a Ravens fan, you have to like Colt's quarterbacks Manning and Luck over the years. They conduct themselves well , and are exciting players. Its hard to dislike either of these two.

[ViriLudant]

I won't discount your point VL, but a RB like Eddie Lacy can dig any elite QB out of a deep scoring deficit anytime anywhere just like RBs LeGarrette Blount & BenJarvus Green-Ellis did for NE & Tom Brady in past seasons.

Huh? Both of those RBs from NE were average at best. Blount had 2 great games which skew his stats.

[ViriLudant]

He just finished 2 years in NFL and he already has post season issues??. He inherited a team which went 2-14.

He cameback 28 points down to win a post season game.

Where do you come up with these random lines?.

Oh, please . The 2-14 argument is weak, considering that the Colts' FO did little to cover the loss of Peyton. A retired QB and Curtis Can't Hit The Broad Side Of A Barn Painter.

Every NFL team would have been garbage with them.

Of course Luck has playoff issues, unless you think that throwing many INTs in the playoff is a good thing .

[Shane Bond]

Oh, please . The 2-14 argument is weak, considering that the Colts' FO did little to cover the loss of Peyton. A retired QB and Curtis Can't Hit The Broad Side Of A Barn Painter.

Every NFL team would have been garbage with them.

Of course Luck has playoff issues, unless you think that throwing many INTs in the playoff is a good thing .

He throws INTs in regular seasons too. Who doesnt. He just completed 2 years and in both years his team went to playoffs. And why do you ignore that 28 point deficit comeback game. That was a playoffs game.

[ViriLudant]

He throws INTs in regular seasons too. Who doesnt. He just completed 2 years and in both years his team went to playoffs. And why do you ignore that 28 point deficit comeback game. That was a playoffs game.

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

[ColtsHappy]

If Luck ever signs a contract that pays him 25-30 million a year, it will only be because the salary cap has gone up accordingly.

 

Right now, it's roughly $130 Mill per year.   But the speculation is it will go up to roughly 150 or even a 160 Mill per year.   In short, there will be enough room for Andrew's large contract as well as signing a quality team to put around him.

 

It's not like the Colt's struggled to put a good team around Peyton Manning when he was here.    All he did was win double digit games for -- what? -- a decade straight or more?

 

The Colts will make everything work with Andrew......

Most influential 10 having the biggest impact on the game, by Pat Kirwin. Only two players on the list, Brady and Luck. He said on the NFL network when talking about this article that Andrew will be the first player to make 30 million a year.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/24623478/nfls-most-influential-ten-who-have-biggest-impact-on-americas-game

 

10. Colts QB Andrew Luck: Luck represents the league's future and his next contract likely will be the largest in history. He is already in the discussion of elite QBs, and every young player will work off his deal. NFL owners will be spending millions of extra money on their quarterbacks over the next 10 years because of Andrew Luck.

 

My two cents....

 

ColtsHappy

[ViriLudant]

Most influential 10 having the biggest impact on the game, by Pat Kirwin. Only two players on the list, Brady and Luck. He said on the NFL network when talking about this article that Andrew will be the first player to make 30 million a year.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/24623478/nfls-most-influential-ten-who-have-biggest-impact-on-americas-game

10. Colts QB Andrew Luck: Luck represents the league's future and his next contract likely will be the largest in history. He is already in the discussion of elite QBs, and every young player will work off his deal. NFL owners will be spending millions of extra money on their quarterbacks over the next 10 years because of Andrew Luck.

My two cents....

ColtsHappy

According to some Colts' fans here, you can't use this article because it's Patriots biased, and therefore garbage. Never mind that Kirwan worked for NFL teams for years, isn't connected with NE at all, etc.

[lollygagger8]

So would I...based on Lucks upside but in no way is Luck better then Romo now

 

The only thing Romo is better than Luck, is at having hot girlfriends in the past. 

[ColtsHappy]

According to some Colts' fans here, you can't use this article because it's Patriots biased, and therefore garbage. Never mind that Kirwan worked for NFL teams for years, isn't connected with NE at all, etc.

Well not according to me.

 

Pat Kirwin's "Moving the Chains" is one of the finest football shows around anywhere. He is one of the few who actually goes into the playbook and educates the fans and demystifies the X's and O's and the nuts and bolts of the game. I would be surprised if he didn't  have haters on here, for whatever reason, it's the roll of the dice -  but I happen to be a fan of his.

 

I admit I liked the show a lot more when he had Tim Ryan but I am starting to get used to Jim Miller and that annoying voice of his.

 

Anyway, his point being that Andrew will soon be the $30 million man and we better do our best to continue to build and improve the team - while we still have the resources.

 

ColtsHappy

[lollygagger8]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

 

Hahhaha, you are too funny. Now we won because of Chief injuries?

 

This guy.  

[TKnight24]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three important defensive players .

Please don't talk to fans about injuries, 4 players lost to the Chiefs.

14+ lost on the Colts sitting on IR

Please don't get me started on injuries

[Dustin]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

What three defensive players?

[BOTT]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

Yeah, missing Justin Houston for one snap really killed the chiefs....and losing a CB they cut six months later really hampered that D.

They lost because Luck made tremendous plays and Andy Reid does what Andy Ried does.

[TKnight24]

What three defensive players?

Brandon Flowers

Tamba Hali

Justin Houston

Wasn't that the 3?

[AntonMcG]

He's the best QB in the NFL IMO. But never had the supporting cast that Brady and Manning always have except for the one year the pack won the SB.

Way more accurate than Manning, more clutch than Brady. I believe he's the best in the NFL. But that's just my opinion

Well that is your opinion and there are several who would agree with you.  But your facts to back up your opinion are just simply not accurate.

The thing with opinions are though... People who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't have one. Unfortunately the resident post-monkey has yet to realize that.

[Dustin]

Brandon Flowers

Tamba Hali

Justin Houston

Wasn't that the 3?

Nope. Flower was lost. The other 2 played.

[TKnight24]

Nope. Flower was lost. The other 2 played.

Oh well then yeah I'm lost like you are

[Track Guy]

Of course he's a top 5 QB. Many of those in the know actually have him rated much higher than 5th. There was one experienced NFL coach, who (anonymously) told Trent Dilfer that Luck was hands down the best player in the National Football League.

 

The only reason it's not more obvious is because he has had terrible protection over his first 2 years in the league and mediocre receiving talent. Part of that has been injuries, but with an improved  (and hopefully healthier) roster Luck should do fantastic things.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

I hate these list, just bring out Luck haters and raise expectations. I would not put Luck above Romo, Ben, or Rivers at this point.

[Superman]

I thought he gave facts. What's so flimsy about it?.

 

Facts don't equal a compelling argument.

 

The problem is that 4QC and GWD aren't a reliable way to determine how a player performs in crunch time. If the QB leads the offense down the field for the lead, then the defense coughs up the lead on the next possession, there's no 4QC or GWD. It's a team stat, and just like all team stats, it's not very useful for determining how QBs perform in specific situations.

[Ja'Crispy]

 

Trent "even if he doesn't run well this year, can catch out of the backfield very well" Richardson 

 

 

This nickname will catch on for sure!

[Shane Bond]

Facts don't equal a compelling argument.

 

The problem is that 4QC and GWD aren't a reliable way to determine how a player performs in crunch time. If the QB leads the offense down the field for the lead, then the defense coughs up the lead on the next possession, there's no 4QC or GWD. It's a team stat, and just like all team stats, it's not very useful for determining how QBs perform in specific situations.

GWD = Game Winning Drive = Keyword is winning.

 

Point made here is Rodgers didnt have many game winning drives. In otherwords, when Packers were trailing entering the 4th quarter his record is 5-24 ( I believe Jvan stated that earlier )

[Superman]

GWD = Game Winning Drive = Keyword is winning.

 

Point made here is Rodgers didnt have many game winning drives. In otherwords, when Packers were trailing entering the 4th quarter his record is 5-24 ( I believe Jvan stated that earlier )

 

It's a team stat. The proper context is that the Packers didn't have many GWDs or 4QC, since it takes a team to make either of those happen. The Packers record is 5-24 in those games, becauses wins/losses is a team stat, not a QB stat.

 

An anecdote: In 2012 vs the Colts, Rodgers threw a go-ahead TD with 4 minutes left. The Colts responded with a TD, leaving only 35 seconds on the clock. What had been both a GWD and a 4QC was erased because the defense couldn't hold the lead. None of that is accounted for in this surface stat.

 

(By the way, this is the same thing I say when people bring up Peyton Manning's postseason record; it's not his record, it's the team's record.)

[Shane Bond]

It's a team stat. The proper context is that the Packers didn't have many GWDs or 4QC, since it takes a team to make either of those happen. The Packers record is 5-24 in those games, becauses wins/losses is a team stat, not a QB stat.

 

An anecdote: In 2012 vs the Colts, Rodgers threw a go-ahead TD with 4 minutes left. The Colts responded with a TD, leaving only 35 seconds on the clock. What had been both a GWD and a 4QC was erased because the defense couldn't hold the lead. None of that is accounted for in this surface stat.

 

(By the way, this is the same thing I say when people bring up Peyton Manning's postseason record; it's not his record, it's the team's record.)

It sure is a team stat as you mentioned, however when game is on the line and you have ball and you go 3 and out or throw an INT or fumble and have a 5-24?.

 

I dont know the details of every game but 5-24 sounds pretty awful for a QB who you called number 1.

[Superman]

It sure is a team stat as you mentioned, however when game is on the line and you have ball and you go 3 and out or throw an INT or fumble and have a 5-24?.

 

I dont know the details of every game but 5-24 sounds pretty awful for a QB who you called number 1.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting the bolded from. Unless you're suggesting that all 24 of those losses were Rodgers' fault. And I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion. The example I mentioned earlier disproves it.

 

And again, you're tagging that 5-24 to the QB, even though it's a team record.

 

Last thing, just to clarify, I didn't call Rodgers #1. I said I think Rodgers current level of play plus his age makes him the most valuable commodity in the league. Doesn't necessarily mean I think he's currently the best QB in the league.

[jskinnz]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

 

I play golf and there is no dialog box on the scorecard .  At the end of the day you add up the score and that is it - nothing else matters.  Same thing with football. 

 

Having said that, can you tell me definitively that the Chiefs win that game if those guys don't get hurt? 

[Shane Bond]

I'm not sure where you're getting the bolded from. Unless you're suggesting that all 24 of those losses were Rodgers' fault. And I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion. The example I mentioned earlier disproves it.

 

And again, you're tagging that 5-24 to the QB, even though it's a team record.

 

Last thing, just to clarify, I didn't call Rodgers #1. I said I think Rodgers current level of play plus his age makes him the most valuable commodity in the league. Doesn't necessarily mean I think he's currently the best QB in the league.

Most valuable commodity in the league in terms of QB vs best QB in the league - How do you differentiate it?.

[Superman]

Most valuable commodity in the league in terms of QB vs best QB in the league - How do you differentiate it?.

 

He's significantly younger than Brady, Manning and Brees, and might still be getting better (just as they all did). He has a proven level of performance that surpasses the QBs that are younger than him. He's right in the perfect spot, where you can probably get another 5-7 years of elite QBing. And unlike Luck or Wilson or the other youngsters, you're not waiting on him to realize his potential.

 

I understand that most people don't agree. A lot of people would rather have Luck because he has more years ahead of him, and maybe even a higher ceiling. Some would rather have Brady or Manning because of the hard-earned reputation and greater body of work. That's all fair.

[Shane Bond]

He's significantly younger than Brady, Manning and Brees, and might still be getting better (just as they all did). He has a proven level of performance that surpasses the QBs that are younger than him. He's right in the perfect spot, where you can probably get another 5-7 years of elite QBing. And unlike Luck or Wilson or the other youngsters, you're not waiting on him to realize his potential.

 

I understand that most people don't agree. A lot of people would rather have Luck because he has more years ahead of him, and maybe even a higher ceiling. Some would rather have Brady or Manning because of the hard-earned reputation and greater body of work. That's all fair.

Did this answer that question?. Ok.

[Superman]

Did this answer that question?. Ok.

 

How did it not answer the question?

[Shane Bond]

How did it not answer the question?

You said Rodgers is the best commodity and who is the best QB?.

 

Keep in mind the premise of this discussion as in now ( current ).

[Superman]

You said Rodgers is the best commodity and who is the best QB?.

 

Keep in mind the premise of this discussion as in now ( current ).

 

You're asking me who I think is the best QB in the league, right now?

 

There's no definitive answer, but for my money, I'd choose Peyton Manning. 

[Hoosierdome93]

I'm a big Luck fan . Good kid, great attitude , etc. He just needs to get over his postseason issues. That'll come. Not sure if he's quite top 5, but certainly close.

Luck's only post season issues are.. Getting some help. Two seasons in the league. Playoffs each of those.. Defiantly top 5

[ViriLudant]

Luck's only post season issues are.. Getting some help. Two seasons in the league. Playoffs each of those.. Defiantly top 5

A better O-line will certainly help , but decisions like throwing a pick 6 (which was entirely his fault and no one else's) is where he needs to improve .

That's it, though. He should have an outstanding future.

[southwest1]

Huh? Both of those RBs from NE were average at best. Blount had 2 great games which skew his stats.

Both backs helped NE win games that they had to win & the premise of my response to you was to illustrate that a good RB can be instrumental in digging a team out of any QB out of any hole.

 

Why are you downgrading both LeGarrette Blount & BenJarvus Green-Ellis? Because they no longer wear a Patriots uniform? Harsh VL. So, you like em when they win games in Foxboro but discard their contributions once they leave Massachusetts? Ouch man. You're brutal. 

[southwest1]

That was a good comeback. Of course, it somewhat helped that the Chiefs lost their best player that game , as well as three impirtant defensive players .

As the grey hoodie would probably say "You play whoever is on the field, rise above adversity, & play football for 60 minutes." This is a results oriented business & INDY beat KC at the end of the day.

 

I never concern myself with what athlete wasn't on the field. Did we win the game or not? Yes, we did.  

[southwest1]

The only thing Romo is better than Luck, is at having hot girlfriends in the past. 

This isn't a slam on Gavin who likes Romo, which is perfectly fine BTW. It's more of a LOL appreciation moment for Lollygager's snappy, comedic comeback. Bravo! 

 

Cowboys Nation...This is the closest thing to a Romo complement that SW1 will ever give you so enjoy this rare fleeting moment of praise because it won't ever been seen again. 

 

Looking forward to seeing INDY crush the Cowboys in week 16 on December 21st too. Run Romo Run...