Jaworski has Luck as Top-5 Quarterback.....

[Superman]

Like it or not that is a VERY telling stat among the "upper tier QB's" ...

 

Just saying.    

 

That "stat" is about as conclusive as QB wins, or postseason record. 

 

If you're going to argue that Rodgers isn't clutch, you should do better than 4QC and GWDs. For numerous reasons, that's not a good argument. Many of those reasons have already been mentioned. I cringe when I see this "stat" bandied about as if it determines anything on its own.

[jskinnz]

excellent contribution to the thread

 

Thank you.  Said it exactly the way I wanted to. 

 

But here is another - stop trying to always out-think the room.  It is OK to admit that Luck is damn good already and on his way to being the best in the game.  He made huge strides in cutting down on turnovers and completion percentage.  And what he can do with the game on the line is already the stuff that legends are built upon.  But by no means is he a finished product and has work to do which I am sure he realizes and ought to be down-right scary for the rest of the league. 

[SilentHill]

He is easily in my top 10, Top 5? No

 

poppycock

[Gavin]

Thank you.  Said it exactly the way I wanted to. 

 

But here is another - stop trying to always out-think the room.  It is OK to admit that Luck is damn good already and on his way to being the best in the game.  He made huge strides in cutting down on turnovers and completion percentage.  And what he can do with the game on the line is already the stuff that legends are built upon.  But by no means is he a finished product and has work to do which I am sure he realizes and ought to be down-right scary for the rest of the league. 

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I think Luck is anything other then a damn good QB who is on his way to being one of the best in the game, I simply see two sides to every coin

[Gavin]

poppycock

Cursing like that is not allowed on the forum

[SilentHill]

Cursing like that is not allowed on the forum

 

Would you prefer I said claptrap?

[Gavin]

Would you prefer I said claptrap?

[The Fish]

My logic isn't so much comparative, but Luck as far as I can tell is more or less 10 years younger the the 4 guys ahead of him. The Colts let one of the guys ahead of him walk to get Luck. I'd say he's 5th. 

 

I would never take Eli, Stafford, Romo, Cutler, Rothelsiburger, Rivers ect in exchange for Luck. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

Absolutely...He's a beast and he's getting a Super Bowl victory...We couldn't be more fortunate to have him!

 

a Super Bowl victory?

 

With his talent, I'd be disappointed if he wouldn't win more than 1. Fact is largely depending on the supporting cast around him, still I think his talent and clutch is enough for more than one title.

[throwing BBZ]

 Based on past performance Andrew belongs at 9 or higher.
 If you are projecting how he will improve and that his supporting cast should play better Allowing him to perform at a higher level, he just might edge himself up mighty close to that 5 spot.
 Statistically he was around 15th best as a passer last season. No DHB should be a 5 spot Pop!  

 

 

  We WILL more often set up quality walls in front of him this season. It is going to be Yummy for the play action 20+yarders.
  Guys will be open, run free.

[snkdy]

Eh, he's not top 5 yet imo, but he will be.

[trueblueblood]

And Romo

That's hilarious

[Warhorse]

......and in other news, there was a poll released today regarding the NFL and everyone agreed. Almost simultaneously, Beelzebub had to chip ice off his shingles.

[John Dee]

Just stop... . 

 

and start being a fan instead of a wanna be guru, draft expert or whatever you are trying to portray.

 

Just kiss Lucks butt 24/7 ..   heeeeeee

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I think Luck is anything other then a damn good QB who is on his way to being one of the best in the game, I simply see two sides to every coin

[John Dee]

Read my sig...

 

that is why all A R fans "cringe"...   

 

Just saying... 

 

That "stat" is about as conclusive as QB wins, or postseason record. 

 

If you're going to argue that Rodgers isn't clutch, you should do better than 4QC and GWDs. For numerous reasons, that's not a good argument. Many of those reasons have already been mentioned. I cringe when I see this "stat" bandied about as if it determines anything on its own.

[Superman]

Read my sig...

 

that is why all A R fans "cringe"...   

 

Just saying... 

 

Facts require context. Without it, many of them are completely useless.

[Gavin]

Just stop... . 

 

and start being a fan instead of a wanna be guru, draft expert or whatever you are trying to portray.

 

Just kiss Lucks butt 24/7 ..   heeeeeee

Sadly your right, Many get to much up in a tizzy fit if even the slightest objectionable opinion is given

[NewColtsFan]

Jaws has been getting progressively worse.

 

Considering he's one of the few analysts who watches extensive amount of tape on these guys and has the knowledge to back up his view,  I don't know why you think that about him........

[ColtsHappy]

In my view, we BETTER high tail it into the Super Bowl and post haste.

 

Once Andrew becomes the 30 million dollar a year man, which he is going to earn and deserve - we are unfortunately going to be on a fast track back to Peytonville. You better believe we will more than likely be fighting a downhill slide in trying to maintain a stellar and expensive supporting cast.

 

It's the nature of the beast....

 

ColtsHappy

[Big Red]

Ron Jaworski was an NFL quarterback for years and appears to be one of the most studious analysts out there.  If he thinks Andrew Luck belongs in the top five QBs in the league, I believe him.  Why can't we just trust that he has done his homework and could easily back it up in a keyboard battle with any of the posters on this thread.

[Big Red]

Personally I am glad Andrew is moving up in the eyes of the true experts. Hopefully it means we will see him in a SB real soon.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

He's the best QB in the NFL IMO. But never had the supporting cast that Brady and Manning always have except for the one year the pack won the SB.

Way more accurate than Manning, more clutch than Brady. I believe he's the best in the NFL. But that's just my opinion

 

Pretty sure Rodgers has had a much better defense than Peyton every year they've been in the league together -- Peyton never had the ability to let his defense keep him in games or sometimes win them for him, it was and has always been almost solely on Peyton's shoulders.

 

I am not sure how you can say more clutch than Brady -- Brady has won more rings and big games than Rodgers. And "way more accurate than Manning"? --- 2012, the last year when they were both healthy all season, Manning threw 68.6% of his passes for completions (583 total passes) to Rodgers' 67.2% on 552 passes.  Manning was in the first year of being in a brand new offense after missing an entire season.  I don't think Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, and Jermichael Finley are all that much worse (in fact, in 2012, I think they were a more talented group than Decker, D. Thomas, J. Tamme, B. Stokley, and J. Dreesen).   In 2013, Manning threw for 68.3% completion on 659 passes -- by far more than Rodgers has ever attempted in a season.  Over their careers Rodgers is at 65.8% completion compared to Manning's 65.5%.  Manning's team when he first entered the league was awful and he had to start as a rookie and go through some growing pains, Rodgers had the opportunity to sit the bench and learn from Favre.  Sorry, but to say Rodgers is better than Manning, or "way more accurate" is ridiculous.  Manning may have had Harrison and Wayne for a while in Indy, but for the most part (other than Edge's years) we had terrible defenses and very poor OL and run games and Manning was throwing the ball more than Rodgers -- Rodgers has a very slight edge with his completion rate but he also didn't start until his 4th year into the league and he started on an established team with some very solid weapons (Donald Driver is equally likely as Reggie Wayne to make HOF, Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley are no slouches) and Rodgers has generally had a better run game than Manning and a much, much better defense, meaning he could afford to take sacks, or run on 3rd and longs and trust his D to make a stop, for years Peyton had to go out with the mentality "If I don't score on them, they will score on me" -- I am pretty confident if Peyton played on several of those GB teams his numbers would be greater than Rodgers because he wouldn't have been forced to do everything himself.

[jskinnz]

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I think Luck is anything other then a damn good QB who is on his way to being one of the best in the game, I simply see two sides to every coin

You said that he was not top 5 QB and are plenty, much smarter than your football IQ who think otherwise. You said that Romo should be rated higher which is just simply laughable which is a good way to describe your Jerry Jones commentary on Luck.

And my comment about you always trying to out-think the room could not be more spot on - the all 22 not withstanding.

[jskinnz]

In my view, we BETTER high tail it into the Super Bowl and post haste.

 

Once Andrew becomes the 30 million dollar a year man, which he is going to earn and deserve - we are unfortunately going to be on a fast track back to Peytonville. You better believe we will more than likely be fighting a downhill slide in trying to maintain a stellar and expensive supporting cast.

 

It's the nature of the beast....

 

ColtsHappy

This line of thinking is completely lost on me. There is no more important position in all of sports than QB. Franchise level, elite QB's are worth their weight in gold. There is the line of thinking that Seattle and Dan Fran have developed this new way of building a team but the reality is they had good teams around their low paying QB's. But Seattle will do exactly what San Fran did and pay their QB a huge bonus & salary when time comes. Most of the leauge is desparately searching for franchise QB's and those that aren't already have them.

[ViriLudant]

He's the best QB in the NFL IMO. But never had the supporting cast that Brady and Manning always have except for the one year the pack won the SB.

Way more accurate than Manning, more clutch than Brady. I believe he's the best in the NFL. But that's just my opinion

He is one if the least clutch QBS ever. If the Packers are losing in the 4th QB, kiss that game goodbye .

And yes, the stats prove that. He's something like 2-28 when his team is trailing in the 4th quarter.

[jvan1973]

He is one if the least clutch QBS ever. If the Packers are losing in the 4th QB, kiss that game goodbye .

And yes, the stats prove that. He's something like 2-28 when his team is trailing in the 4th quarter.

5-24

[TKnight24]

Pretty sure Rodgers has had a much better defense than Peyton every year they've been in the league together -- Peyton never had the ability to let his defense keep him in games or sometimes win them for him, it was and has always been almost solely on Peyton's shoulders.

I am not sure how you can say more clutch than Brady -- Brady has won more rings and big games than Rodgers. And "way more accurate than Manning"? --- 2012, the last year when they were both healthy all season, Manning threw 68.6% of his passes for completions (583 total passes) to Rodgers' 67.2% on 552 passes. Manning was in the first year of being in a brand new offense after missing an entire season. I don't think Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, and Jermichael Finley are all that much worse (in fact, in 2012, I think they were a more talented group than Decker, D. Thomas, J. Tamme, B. Stokley, and J. Dreesen). In 2013, Manning threw for 68.3% completion on 659 passes -- by far more than Rodgers has ever attempted in a season. Over their careers Rodgers is at 65.8% completion compared to Manning's 65.5%. Manning's team when he first entered the league was awful and he had to start as a rookie and go through some growing pains, Rodgers had the opportunity to sit the bench and learn from Favre. Sorry, but to say Rodgers is better than Manning, or "way more accurate" is ridiculous. Manning may have had Harrison and Wayne for a while in Indy, but for the most part (other than Edge's years) we had terrible defenses and very poor OL and run games and Manning was throwing the ball more than Rodgers -- Rodgers has a very slight edge with his completion rate but he also didn't start until his 4th year into the league and he started on an established team with some very solid weapons (Donald Driver is equally likely as Reggie Wayne to make HOF, Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley are no slouches) and Rodgers has generally had a better run game than Manning and a much, much better defense, meaning he could afford to take sacks, or run on 3rd and longs and trust his D to make a stop, for years Peyton had to go out with the mentality "If I don't score on them, they will score on me" -- I am pretty confident if Peyton played on several of those GB teams his numbers would be greater than Rodgers because he wouldn't have been forced to do everything himself.

So winning more super bowls determines clutch factor? So Flacco is more clutch than Andrew?

And accurate as in the way the ball is thrown. As Richard Sherman pointed out before the SB, since the surgery Peyton throws ducks. Rodgers on the other hand throws some of the most beautiful passes you'll see

[jvan1973]

So winning more super bowls determines clutch factor? So Flacco is more clutch than Andrew?

And accurate as in the way the ball is thrown. As Richard Sherman pointed out before the SB, since the surgery Peyton throws ducks. Rodgers on the other hand throws some of the most beautiful passes you'll see

it doesn't matter how pretty his passes are if he is sitting on the sideline injured

Plus, as peyton pointed out, he throws a lot of wobbly touchdowns

[ViriLudant]

5-24

Thanks. I knew that it was horrific, but don't have the stats available .

[jvan1973]

Thanks. I knew that it was horrific, but don't have the stats available .

i was really surprised it was that low.

[southwest1]

I'm a big Luck fan . Good kid, great attitude , etc. He just needs to get over his postseason issues. That'll come. Not sure if he's quite top 5, but certainly close.

Thanks for that VL. I respect that about you. Your analysis is spot on, objective, & fair. Thank you. 

 

This year our Offense has the potential to be Top 5 if not #1 scoring Offense. 

 

Weapons of Mass Destruction at Luck's Disposal: 

 

Reggie "orange velcro hands of doom" Wayne

TY "afterburner" Hilton

Nicks "monster hands" Nicks 

Whalen/Moncrief/Rogers (insert snarky nickname here for any of them) 

Coby "LB killer" Fleener 

Dwayne "can line up anywhere and destroy Defenses" Allen 

Ahmad "49ers kryptonite" Bradshaw

Vick "Helicopter" Ballard

Trent "even if he doesn't run well this year, can catch out of the backfield very well" Richardson 

 

 

I'd say that Offensive Juggernaut of talent rivals what Stafford and the Lions have to work with this year.  

I love what you said about Bradshaw Lollygager!   A very colorful list there brother! 

 

So would I...based on Lucks upside but in no way is Luck better then Romo now

Whoa Gavin, I respect you man & maybe it's my Dallas Cowboys hatred showing, but are you seriously saying with a straight face that Tony is better than Andrew right now? Come on Gavin. Are you feeling okay? Do I need to call 911? Just kidding! 

 

Would you prefer I said claptrap?

Sounds naughty SH. SW1 likes that. LOL! My bad. Sorry moderators. 

[Gavin]

You said that he was not top 5 QB and are plenty, much smarter than your football IQ who think otherwise. You said that Romo should be rated higher which is just simply laughable which is a good way to describe your Jerry Jones commentary on Luck.

And my comment about you always trying to out-think the room could not be more spot on - the all 22 not withstanding.

Well who are ya taking out then and putting Luck in instead? Brady? No........Rodgers? No...Manning...Obviously not.....Brees? Nope not there either and ya cant ignore Romos 64.6 career completion percentage, 29,565 yards passing and 208 passing td's to only 101 ints in 7 years starting, Now if ya wanna say Luck is a top 5 or better QB in late game situations then there is no question in my mind about it, But over the course of whole games taking everything into account? No

[southwest1]

He is one if the least clutch QBS ever. If the Packers are losing in the 4th QB, kiss that game goodbye .

And yes, the stats prove that. He's something like 2-28 when his team is trailing in the 4th quarter.

I won't discount your point VL, but a RB like Eddie Lacy can dig any elite QB out of a deep scoring deficit anytime anywhere just like RBs LeGarrette Blount & BenJarvus Green-Ellis did for NE & Tom Brady in past seasons. 

[Superman]

Well who are ya taking out then and putting Luck in instead? Brady? No........Rodgers? No...Manning...Obviously not.....Brees? Nope not there either and ya cant ignore Romos 64.6 career completion percentage, 29,565 yards passing and 208 passing td's to only 101 ints in 7 years starting, Now if ya wanna say Luck is a top 5 or better QB in late game situations then there is no question in my mind about it, But over the course of whole games taking everything into account? No

 

Why do you have to take someone out of the top four to put Luck in the top five?

[NewColtsFan]

Well who are ya taking out then and putting Luck in instead? Brady? No........Rodgers? No...Manning...Obviously not.....Brees? Nope not there either and ya cant ignore Romos 64.6 career completion percentage, 29,565 yards passing and 208 passing td's to only 101 ints in 7 years starting, Now if ya wanna say Luck is a top 5 or better QB in late game situations then there is no question in my mind about it, But over the course of whole games taking everything into account? No

 

I think if you were going to make an argument for another QB to be #5 instead of Luck, the QB for me would be....

 

Roethlisberger and not Romo.

 

I don't see Romo being insulted by making him a top-10 guy instead of a top-5 guy.

[Gavin]

Why do you have to take someone out of the top four to put Luck in the top five?

At this point given Romos entire body of work I'd put him in my top 5 ahead of Luck, With Luck 6-7

[Superman]

At this point given Romos entire body of work I'd put him in my top 5 ahead of Luck, With Luck 6-7

 

I don't know why, but I missed Romo in that previous post. Disregard...

[ColtsFanMikeC]

So winning more super bowls determines clutch factor? So Flacco is more clutch than Andrew?

And accurate as in the way the ball is thrown. As Richard Sherman pointed out before the SB, since the surgery Peyton throws ducks. Rodgers on the other hand throws some of the most beautiful passes you'll see

 

Flacco is the first QB in NFL history to make it to playoffs each of his first 5 years -- granted, he did have a tremendous defense that was a major reason why that happened -- Flacco's postseason run when they won the NFL title is one of the greatest post-seasons by any QB in NFL history -- 1,140 yards, 11 TD's, 0 interceptions, and over 117 QB rating is unreal... he was as cool and as clutch as could be -- in fact, that might have been one of the most 'clutch' playoff runs by any QB in NFL history, he made no mistakes throughout the playoffs and threw a 70 yard touchdown as time expired when they were down by 7 to a favored Broncos team to tie the game and put them in the super bowl.  Andrew is young, and yes he has had some great comebacks, but if you look at the playoff stats -- in 13 career playoff games, Flacco has 10 turnovers -- in 3 career playoff games Luck has 9 turnovers.  It is too early to say anything -- I think Luck is well on his way (along with Russell Wilson) to be the 2nd set of QB's to make it to the playoffs their first 5 years, and maybe more -- in a few years, we will probably be able to say with confidence that Luck has surpassed Flacco in terms of 'clutch factor', but as of now, I think it's a pretty hard argument.

 

Peyton threw more TD's and passing yards than anyone in the history of the NFL, it doesn't matter if they are ducks, they are obviously accurate if he is completing over 68% of them -- Rodgers, throwing less than half the number of passes Peyton did threw for almost 2 less percentage points completion rates.  I think, by default, that makes Peyton the more accurate of the two.

[LockeDown]

Manning, Brady, Brees and Luck have leadership skills. Romo and Rodgers dont. Not just my opinion, but teamates and media as well. Big ben is not a team player imo. Has hurt his team multiple times with bad attitude.

[NewColtsFan]

In my view, we BETTER high tail it into the Super Bowl and post haste.

 

Once Andrew becomes the 30 million dollar a year man, which he is going to earn and deserve - we are unfortunately going to be on a fast track back to Peytonville. You better believe we will more than likely be fighting a downhill slide in trying to maintain a stellar and expensive supporting cast.

 

It's the nature of the beast....

 

ColtsHappy

 

If Luck ever signs a contract that pays him 25-30 million a year, it will only be because the salary cap has gone up accordingly.

 

Right now, it's roughly $130 Mill per year.   But the speculation is it will go up to roughly 150 or even a 160 Mill per year.   In short, there will be enough room for Andrew's large contract as well as signing a quality team to put around him.

 

It's not like the Colt's struggled to put a good team around Peyton Manning when he was here.    All he did was win double digit games for -- what? -- a decade straight or more?

 

The Colts will make everything work with Andrew......