2015 Cap Space

[Indyboy757]

This is a long ways away, but I thought we would have the most cap space come next years offseason. I can't seem to find any info on the topic, can anyone help me out with this? I know these numbers change and I know the salary cap will go up do to the TV contracts, but I remeber a artical saying that 2015@16 our cap space would be close to what the Raiders had to work with this offseason..

[lollygagger8]

Sportrac has lots of cap info, check that out for more info. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/

 

 

 

 

Article 

[Dustin]

$25,670,145

 

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Colts

[Loneranger]

$25,670,145

 

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Colts

Won't Luck get most if not all of that?

[Dustin]

Won't Luck get most if not all of that?

No. He won't get a new contract until 2016-2017. He still has 2 years left on his deal with a 5th year option.

[UKColt13]

More than enough to bring in another quality veteran DB in the next offseason if need be.

[Smonroe]

No. He won't get a new contract until 2016-2017. He still has 2 years left on his deal with a 5th year option.

Are Allen, Fleener, TRich, and Ballard due for new contracts next year?

[Dustin]

Are Allen, Fleener, TRich, and Ballard due for new contracts next year?

They can be extended yes. But there actual contracts aren't up until 2016 (we have a 5th year option on TRich so 2017 for him if used)

[throwing BBZ]

This is a long ways away, but I thought we would have the most cap space come next years offseason. I can't seem to find any info on the topic, can anyone help me out with this? I know these numbers change and I know the salary cap will go up do to the TV contracts, but I remeber a artical saying that 2015@16 our cap space would be close to what the Raiders had to work with this offseason..

 

 You must have dreamt it. Not even close to true.

[Smonroe]

They can be extended yes. But there actual contracts aren't up until 2016 (we have a 5th year option on TRich so 2017 for him if used)

I meant to add TY to that group, I assume he has the same contract length. I think he may be the #1 priority of the bunch.

[ztboiler]

2015 is the year that cap flexibility kicks in on the 2013 FA class signings, so the current projection of $25+M can be padded by the release of several players if they don't live up to their deal:

 

RJF - $4,875,000

Toler - $4,750,000

Walden - $3,750,000

D. Thomas - $3,250,000

 

You could go a little deeper into the roster, but these are the only ones that don't incur significant dead money.  They represent an additional $16+M of cap space.  All of those guys have a chance to produce well enough to keep their spot, but we'll have replacements ready by then also - especially if we draft a CB early next year.  The 2013 FA signings were well thought out by Grigs and he stands to be rewarded by the flexibility he built-in.  He will have plenty of options to extend the 2012 draft class while continuing to add a key FA here and there like Art Jones.

 

It will get harder as success piles up, but right now we are in "position A" with the salary cap.

[Valpo2004]

This is a long ways away, but I thought we would have the most cap space come next years offseason. I can't seem to find any info on the topic, can anyone help me out with this? I know these numbers change and I know the salary cap will go up do to the TV contracts, but I remeber a artical saying that 2015@16 our cap space would be close to what the Raiders had to work with this offseason..

 

Right now overthecap.com has us in 11th place for cap space next offseason based on what we have committed to spend for next year in terms of contracts.  

 

Free agents for next year:

 

UFA:

Reggie Wayne

Hakeem Nicks

Matt Hasselbeck

Cory Redding

Darius Butler

Joe Reitz

Josh Gordy

Sergio Brown

Fili Moala

Mike Adams

Ahmad Bradshaw

Colt Anderson

Brandon McKinney

Andy Studebaker

Weslye Saunders

Kelvin Sheppard

 

RFA

Brandon Burton

Chris Rainey

Jerrell Freeman

Delano Howell

Mario Harvey

Stanley Havili

Matt Overton

 

ERFA

Dan Herron

Jeris Pendleton

Da'Rick Rogers

Sheldon Price

Daniel Adongo

Xavier Nixon

Josh McNary

Griff Whalen

[Valpo2004]

2015 is the year that cap flexibility kicks in on the 2013 FA class signings, so the current projection of $25+M can be padded by the release of several players if they don't live up to their deal:

 

RJF - $4,875,000

Toler - $4,750,000

Walden - $3,750,000

D. Thomas - $3,250,000

 

You could go a little deeper into the roster, but these are the only ones that don't incur significant dead money.  They represent an additional $16+M of cap space.  All of those guys have a chance to produce well enough to keep their spot, but we'll have replacements ready by then also - especially if we draft a CB early next year.  The 2013 FA signings were well thought out by Grigs and he stands to be rewarded by the flexibility he built-in.  He will have plenty of options to extend the 2012 draft class while continuing to add a key FA here and there like Art Jones.

 

It will get harder as success piles up, but right now we are in "position A" with the salary cap.

 

Only thing is I can't see Grigs letting these guys go except for injury or if they really really do terrible because it's not like we have their replacements readily available.  Toler and Thomas if they continue to not be able to play due to injury might go.  Especially Thomas since we have theoretically replaced him.  

 

But I think RJF is safe and Walden is likely safe unless after Werner finishes taking over for Mathis somehow beats out Walden for his spot. 

 

Ultimately we will have to be very careful about free agency in 2015 because after 2015 we have a lot of contracts of key starters that need to be renewed or extended.  Even with the 5th year extension, Luck's cap hit goes from 7 mil in 2015 to likely 14 or 15 mil in 2016.  

 

Then you have to make decisions on Mathis, Castonzo, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, Ballard, Chapman, Richardson, and Vinny will be a FA then too although you would expect him to retire at that point, but you never know.

[ztboiler]

Only thing is I can't see Grigs letting these guys go except for injury or if they really really do terrible because it's not like we have their replacements readily available.  Toler and Thomas if they continue to not be able to play due to injury might go.  Especially Thomas since we have theoretically replaced him.  

 

But I think RJF is safe and Walden is likely safe unless after Werner finishes taking over for Mathis somehow beats out Walden for his spot. 

 

Ultimately we will have to be very careful about free agency in 2015 because after 2015 we have a lot of contracts of key starters that need to be renewed or extended.  Even with the 5th year extension, Luck's cap hit goes from 7 mil in 2015 to likely 14 or 15 mil in 2016.  

 

Then you have to make decisions on Mathis, Castonzo, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, Ballard, Chapman, Richardson, and Vinny will be a FA then too although you would expect him to retire at that point, but you never know.

They may all be safe if they play and play at a high level...that is indeed the beauty of it.  None are so costly that they have to perform better than NFL average starter level to justify being kept, but all except Toler have players behind them that could easilly be ready to replace them in 2015.  So...average may not quite cut it depending on who is ready behind them.

 

The trend in salary cap management is to pay very little for average veteran performance unless locked into guarantees. I don't think any of these 4 are all that vulnerable because all are squarely in a position to produce, but all will have to be productive at a starter level in 2014 to be here in 2015 - and chances are that at least 2 of them won't be for one reason or another.

 

Walden is the most vulnerable on performance basis.  He has done his job, and was a much needed acquisition, but has a low ceiling and may need to yield snaps to Werner or Newsome as we pursue impact at SAM.  Replacing him after 2 years always looked like the plan from the outset, while retaining the option to keep him at a modest starter price if his replacement isn't ready in time.

 

RJF will probably play well enough to merit sliding into Reddings spot - he was pretty solid last year and probably takes a jump in year 2.

 

Thomas and Toler are pretty much locks to return if they are healthy because their productivity is a bargain if they can stay on the field.  Yet, they also classify as the 2 players least likely to succeed right now.

[Superman]

...

 

 

...

Just chiming in...

We won't have any decisions to make based on cap space next year. The only noteworthy FA will be Nicks, really. If Wayne wants to stay, he'll have to take a team-friendly deal. Same with Redding. Hasselbeck has recently said that he'd like to stay, but he won't be making $4m/year anymore, that's for sure. Reitz, Gordy and Butler are interesting cases, but none of them will make significant money from us. The rest of them will be lucky to make the final 53 this year, much less be in position for a considerable contract in 2015. 

 

The RFAs and ERFAs are easy; if you want them, you tender them, for not a lot of money.

 

So the potential decisions on guys like Walden, Thomas, RJF and Toler will be based on performance. None of them are making big money, but they are all in a range where "value over replacement" is a significant factor. They have to play at a reasonable level in order to be safe past this season, especially since none of them have big cap penalties in the event of a release. Even though we're not in cap trouble, the cap space gets rolled over year to year. Whatever we save can be used to retain our young guys and add better/more reliable veterans in future seasons. So we can potentially go well over the one year cap in 2016 to keep Luck, Hilton, etc., and still have future cap flexibility. Whatever we save now makes it easier to do that in the future.

 

I like the way Grigson is managing the cap. It's staying flat year to year right now, with anticipated increases in the next couple years, while we fill holes on our roster via free agency. I expect that he'll keep using this pay-as-you-go approach, keeping the cap in good shape and still having the flexibility to make cuts and additions as the need arises.

 

[Superman]

$25,670,145

 

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Colts

 

Here's the problem with OTC and Spotrac. As of right now, neither of them is counting any roll-over. So our cap space should be even higher than that in 2015. 

 

OTC is projecting a $140m salary cap in 2015, and we currently have contracted liabilities of just over $114m. So you get just under $26m in projected cap space in 2015. However, if we don't take on significant additional liabilities against the 2015 cap (which we're not likely to do, since no one is up for an extension right now, and I don't see us making any significant trades), then we'll be finishing 2014 with somewhere around $15m in cap space. That cap space gets rolled over to 2015. So you add that to the $26m projection, and you're looking at nearly $41m in projected cap space in 2015. 

 

This projection is premature, at this point. We'll need to see who makes the final 53 (some of our future liabilities might go away after camp, like Brazill just did), whether we make any new acquisitions, etc. The cap might also be higher than $140m. Either way, we'll have more than $25.6m in cap space going into 2015.

[Valpo2004]

Here's the problem with OTC and Spotrac. As of right now, neither of them is counting any roll-over. So our cap space should be even higher than that in 2015. 

 

OTC is projecting a $140m salary cap in 2015, and we currently have contracted liabilities of just over $114m. So you get just under $26m in projected cap space in 2015. However, if we don't take on significant additional liabilities against the 2015 cap (which we're not likely to do, since no one is up for an extension right now, and I don't see us making any significant trades), then we'll be finishing 2014 with somewhere around $15m in cap space. That cap space gets rolled over to 2015. So you add that to the $26m projection, and you're looking at nearly $41m in projected cap space in 2015. 

 

This projection is premature, at this point. We'll need to see who makes the final 53 (some of our future liabilities might go away after camp, like Brazill just did), whether we make any new acquisitions, etc. The cap might also be higher than $140m. Either way, we'll have more than $25.6m in cap space going into 2015.

 

15 is a little high, I think we are at 13.8 M right now.  

 

Conservatively we need about 3 M for in-season moves, we might use less but I would say you want to keep 3 M open to be on the safe side.

 

So I think we're likely rolling over at least 10.8 mil.  So we should be realistically in the neighborhood of 37 M next year.  However I don't see us using more then 17 M of it.  I think we might re-sign/tender some key guys and maybe grab a couple FA's and leave the rest for the draft.  

[Superman]

15 is a little high, I think we are at 13.8 M right now.  

 

Conservatively we need about 3 M for in-season moves, we might use less but I would say you want to keep 3 M open to be on the safe side.

 

So I think we're likely rolling over at least 10.8 mil.  So we should be realistically in the neighborhood of 37 M next year.  However I don't see us using more then 17 M of it.  I think we might re-sign/tender some key guys and maybe grab a couple FA's and leave the rest for the draft.  

 

OTC has it at $13.8m, Spotrac has it at $17.6m. I haven't tried to reconcile the two, so I just averaged them out. (I just looked briefly at OTC's breakdown, and their cap space projection is wrong. If you add their numbers, you come up with a payroll of about $115m, subtracted from a cap of $133m, is about $18m in cap space.)

 

In-season moves will be made, but that will also include some releases, and pro-rated salaries. Unless there's a really notable acquisition, the in-season moves could be a wash.

 

And then, Spotrac and OTC are counting the top 51 salaries, like they should. But I'm assuming that some of our top 51 guys aren't on the roster in Week 1, and might be replaced by cheaper players. Kelvin Sheppard, Fili Moala (still on the cap, but I expect him to be released with a settlement, lowering his cap number), etc. 

 

So, my way premature projection is that our cap figure in Week 1 is something between $115m-118m. In-season spending of $3-5m should leave us with $10-15m to roll over to 2015, giving us $36-41m in cap space in 2015 (assuming a 2015 cap of $140m).

 

Obviously, a lot can happen between now and the end of the season. My point was just that you can't forget about the roll over space.

[Valpo2004]

Glad you added the numbers up.  I was more apt to use overthecap.com as Sportrac uses them as a source.  

 

I agree that you can't forget about the roll over.  Technically speaking the only place where overthecap has counted our cap number for next year is on the salary cap calculator.  Most of the time they just post the liabilities until the salary cap is offically announced.

 

I think we are going to start transitioning to a team that builds more through the draft from now on.  

[Superman]

Glad you added the numbers up.  I was more apt to use overthecap.com as Sportrac uses them as a source.  

 

I agree that you can't forget about the roll over.  Technically speaking the only place where overthecap has counted our cap number for next year is on the salary cap calculator.  Most of the time they just post the liabilities until the salary cap is offically announced.

 

I think we are going to start transitioning to a team that builds more through the draft from now on.  

 

This is where I got OTC's numbers from: http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Colts&Year=2014 As I mentioned, the numbers at the top don't add up, but we figured that out already.

 

I don't think we'll have signing periods like 2013 anymore. I think the 2014 offseason is more like what Grigson wants to do. Add a good player here and there, to supplement what we have, but really focus on developing our young guys and adding more. He made a lot of signings and trades the first two years because he had to build the roster almost from scratch. But we had a lot of draft picks also, and those drafted players have played a big role in our relative success. 

[DougDew]

 

 

Just chiming in...

We won't have any decisions to make based on cap space next year. The only noteworthy FA will be Nicks, really. If Wayne wants to stay, he'll have to take a team-friendly deal. Same with Redding. Hasselbeck has recently said that he'd like to stay, but he won't be making $4m/year anymore, that's for sure. Reitz, Gordy and Butler are interesting cases, but none of them will make significant money from us. The rest of them will be lucky to make the final 53 this year, much less be in position for a considerable contract in 2015. 

 

The RFAs and ERFAs are easy; if you want them, you tender them, for not a lot of money.

 

So the potential decisions on guys like Walden, Thomas, RJF and Toler will be based on performance. None of them are making big money, but they are all in a range where "value over replacement" is a significant factor. They have to play at a reasonable level in order to be safe past this season, especially since none of them have big cap penalties in the event of a release. Even though we're not in cap trouble, the cap space gets rolled over year to year. Whatever we save can be used to retain our young guys and add better/more reliable veterans in future seasons. So we can potentially go well over the one year cap in 2016 to keep Luck, Hilton, etc., and still have future cap flexibility. Whatever we save now makes it easier to do that in the future.

 

I like the way Grigson is managing the cap. It's staying flat year to year right now, with anticipated increases in the next couple years, while we fill holes on our roster via free agency. I expect that he'll keep using this pay-as-you-go approach, keeping the cap in good shape and still having the flexibility to make cuts and additions as the need arises.

 

Agreed. 

 

Also, I think their cap hits would still be low enough that Grigson should consider two things:  1) Unless he is willing to spend a lot more cap hit on a replacement player, there is no guarantee that another FA signed to replace any of them would be much of an upgrade.  Unless their performance drops off dramatically, I think their replacement's have to come via the draft. 2)  Although players always go for the money, I think there is some value to letting veterans play to the end of their contract.  If a FA visits the Colts, having the Colts establish a reputation of not cutting a veteran at the first sign of poor play or injury, may make the club more attractive relative to other competitive offers at the time.

[dw49]

Agreed. 

 

Also, I think their cap hits would still be low enough that Grigson should consider two things:  1) Unless he is willing to spend a lot more cap hit on a replacement player, there is no guarantee that another FA signed to replace any of them would be much of an upgrade.  Unless their performance drops off dramatically, I think their replacement's have to come via the draft. 2)  Although players always go for the money, I think there is some value to letting veterans play to the end of their contract.  If a FA visits the Colts, having the Colts establish a reputation of not cutting a veteran at the first sign of poor play or injury, may make the club more attractive relative to other competitive offers at the time.

 

 

Other than the Cherlius contract and maybe Landry (not so much) , all those contracts were drawn up to cut the player if he did not perform to the contract. I said all… I guess that means RJF , Tolar and Waldren. But if you taker it out another year , you basically only have commitment to V Davis , Jackson and Landry through next year , the 2015 cap year. So i think if you look at Grigson's body of work , it doest appear that he has made any type of commitment at all to keeping theses guys into the later years of the deal. If you look only Cherlius has a major cap hit if cut after his 3rd year. Even the V Davis deal is pretty much a 2 year commitment.

[Superman]

Agreed. 

 

Also, I think their cap hits would still be low enough that Grigson should consider two things:  1) Unless he is willing to spend a lot more cap hit on a replacement player, there is no guarantee that another FA signed to replace any of them would be much of an upgrade.  Unless their performance drops off dramatically, I think their replacement's have to come via the draft. 2)  Although players always go for the money, I think there is some value to letting veterans play to the end of their contract.  If a FA visits the Colts, having the Colts establish a reputation of not cutting a veteran at the first sign of poor play or injury, may make the club more attractive relative to other competitive offers at the time.

 

None of those four guys are making BIG money. RJF goes up to $6.125m in the last two years of his deal, and he's the highest paid of the four. So we're really only talking about releasing any of them if they aren't playing at a reasonably high level. Toler and Thomas have to stay healthy. RJF and Walden have to make some plays. None of them have to be Pro Bowlers, but they can't be bums or training table accessories, otherwise they have to go. So you're right, there's no reason to be eager to push any of them out the door, but they do have to pull their weight.

 

As for your second point, these contracts are pay-as-you-go. That's for a reason. Player agents negotiate upfront money and guarantees in order to mitigate the future risk of being released. That's just the nature of the business. I don't think being noble really has a place in managing your roster. You don't want to have the reputation of being a cutthroat organization that ditches players at the first sign of trouble, but you also can't slowly nurse guys along when they aren't performing. I think FAs and their agents understand this.

[DougDew]

Other than the Cherlius contract and maybe Landry (not so much) , all those contracts were drawn up to cut the player if he did not perform to the contract. I said all… I guess that means RJF , Tolar and Waldren. But if you taker it out another year , you basically only have commitment to V Davis , Jackson and Landry through next year , the 2015 cap year. So i think if you look at Grigson's body of work , it doest appear that he has made any type of commitment at all to keeping theses guys into the later years of the deal. If you look only Cherlius has a major cap hit if cut after his 3rd year. Even the V Davis deal is pretty much a 2 year commitment.

For the three players in question, cutting them requires a (productive) replacement to fill their shoes.  Cutting a $5mm a year player due to playing at a $3mm a year level requires you to find a FA who actually plays at a $5mm a year level.  Or find an $8mm a year FA and hope he plays to at least a $5mm a year level.  Its kind of like churning the roster for no real gain. 

 

I'm just saying that there are a lot of risks with cutting guys who don't have huge contracts just because they play a little below what they are getting paid, IF there is nobody behind them to take their place.

 

I don't see any young player on the roster who projects to fill Toler, RJF's or Walden's positions anytime soon (need replacements for Mathis and Redding too), so I think they will play through their contracts unless their play becomes a real liability.

[NewColtsFan]

For the three players in question, cutting them requires a (productive) replacement to fill their shoes.  Cutting a $5mm a year player due to playing at a $3mm a year level requires you to find a FA who actually plays at a $5mm a year level.  Or find an $8mm a year FA and hope he plays to at least a $5mm a year level.  Its kind of like churning the roster for no real gain. 

 

I'm just saying that there are a lot of risks with cutting guys who don't have huge contracts just because they play a little below what they are getting paid, IF there is nobody behind them to take their place.

 

I don't see any young player on the roster who projects to fill Toler, RJF's or Walden's positions anytime soon (need replacements for Mathis and Redding too), so I think they will play through their contracts unless their play becomes a real liability.

 

I think the replacement for Walden is Werner.   Longterm, I see him as more strong-side than weak-side.

 

RJF could be Hughes, could be Jone,  could be a 2015 FA or Draft Pick.   But unless RJF has a terrible year, I don't see him being cut.

 

As for Toler,  this could be make or break...   but again, his replacement could be a 2015 FA or a 2015 draft pick.   The fact that his potential replacement may not be on the roster today does not worry me.    2015 is a long ways away.     A lot can, and will happen between now and then.

[dw49]

For the three players in question, cutting them requires a (productive) replacement to fill their shoes.  Cutting a $5mm a year player due to playing at a $3mm a year level requires you to find a FA who actually plays at a $5mm a year level.  Or find an $8mm a year FA and hope he plays to at least a $5mm a year level.  Its kind of like churning the roster for no real gain. 

 

I'm just saying that there are a lot of risks with cutting guys who don't have huge contracts just because they play a little below what they are getting paid, IF there is nobody behind them to take their place.

 

I don't see any young player on the roster who projects to fill Toler, RJF's or Walden's positions anytime soon (need replacements for Mathis and Redding too), so I think they will play through their contracts unless their play becomes a real liability.

 

 

I see what you are saying but I don't think it quite works like that. Grigson over paid all three of those guys. One was a back up , another an injury prone guy that had seen very little of the field in 4 years and the other a not too highly rated guy with GB. If they do not perform up to expectations , their contracts are so structured to let them walk with hardly any cap hit at all. Granted  , when a player is boarder line , sometimes the ability to replace him with an affordable upgrade might be the determining factor. However , I think you carried it a bit far saying if these guys play to about half their contract , they are safe in 2015 as we don't have a good young player on the roster yet on the roster. I think most GM's will cut an under performing vet and roll the dice with getting better value in the draft or with a FA .. either high level or low level. I think NE might be a good example of teams letting over paid vets go ? I do understand that much of that is not resigning a guy to a new contract ( Bethea ?) and what yourfe saying is a little different , but I think GM's would rather "roll the dice" a bit than pay a guy worth 3 mill 5 mill. JMO.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just chiming in...

We won't have any decisions to make based on cap space next year. The only noteworthy FA will be Nicks, really. If Wayne wants to stay, he'll have to take a team-friendly deal. Same with Redding. Hasselbeck has recently said that he'd like to stay, but he won't be making $4m/year anymore, that's for sure. Reitz, Gordy and Butler are interesting cases, but none of them will make significant money from us. The rest of them will be lucky to make the final 53 this year, much less be in position for a considerable contract in 2015. 

 

The RFAs and ERFAs are easy; if you want them, you tender them, for not a lot of money.

 

So the potential decisions on guys like Walden, Thomas, RJF and Toler will be based on performance. None of them are making big money, but they are all in a range where "value over replacement" is a significant factor. They have to play at a reasonable level in order to be safe past this season, especially since none of them have big cap penalties in the event of a release. Even though we're not in cap trouble, the cap space gets rolled over year to year. Whatever we save can be used to retain our young guys and add better/more reliable veterans in future seasons. So we can potentially go well over the one year cap in 2016 to keep Luck, Hilton, etc., and still have future cap flexibility. Whatever we save now makes it easier to do that in the future.

 

I like the way Grigson is managing the cap. It's staying flat year to year right now, with anticipated increases in the next couple years, while we fill holes on our roster via free agency. I expect that he'll keep using this pay-as-you-go approach, keeping the cap in good shape and still having the flexibility to make cuts and additions as the need arises.

Agreed

[Warhorse]

For the three players in question, cutting them requires a (productive) replacement to fill their shoes.  Cutting a $5mm a year player due to playing at a $3mm a year level requires you to find a FA who actually plays at a $5mm a year level.  Or find an $8mm a year FA and hope he plays to at least a $5mm a year level.  Its kind of like churning the roster for no real gain. 

I wish more fans understood this concept. There is a belief that if a player is not living up to their contract (an opinion of the fan), that there is always a better option our there...and may times it is not true. The options they see are usually a product of their teams system and would do no better playing for the Colts. 

[akcolt]

I think the replacement for Walden is Werner.   Longterm, I see him as more strong-side than weak-side.

 

RJF could be Hughes, could be Jone,  could be a 2015 FA or Draft Pick.   But unless RJF has a terrible year, I don't see him being cut.

 

As for Toler,  this could be make or break...   but again, his replacement could be a 2015 FA or a 2015 draft pick.   The fact that his potential replacement may not be on the roster today does not worry me.    2015 is a long ways away.     A lot can, and will happen between now and then.

Toler's replacement could be on the team right now Cox has has shown potential still want to see Price after a yr on the PS, I know I  pounded on him for the snitching Purifoy has made some plays. If Toler can stay healthy he will be back he can play when he is healthy.  We will know more about our back end here pretty quick. I like Cox to to make some noise.

 

I think RJF has a break out year finally plays up to his potential 

[DougDew]

I see what you are saying but I don't think it quite works like that. Grigson over paid all three of those guys. One was a back up , another an injury prone guy that had seen very little of the field in 4 years and the other a not too highly rated guy with GB. If they do not perform up to expectations , their contracts are so structured to let them walk with hardly any cap hit at all. Granted  , when a player is boarder line , sometimes the ability to replace him with an affordable upgrade might be the determining factor. However , I think you carried it a bit far saying if these guys play to about half their contract , they are safe in 2015 as we don't have a good young player on the roster yet on the roster. I think most GM's will cut an under performing vet and roll the dice with getting better value in the draft or with a FA .. either high level or low level. I think NE might be a good example of teams letting over paid vets go ? I do understand that much of that is not resigning a guy to a new contract ( Bethea ?) and what yourfe saying is a little different , but I think GM's would rather "roll the dice" a bit than pay a guy worth 3 mill 5 mill. JMO.

I can't disagree too much.

 

I don't know if those three players will necessarily be overpaid in 2015, considering how much the cap has gone up in 2014 and 2015.  Grigs may have overpaid early on, but that really isn't a whole lot different than giving guaranteed money (which he didn't) and the Colts had the space to give the salary. 

 

As far as other replies.....

 

The question with Toler is injury.  If he plays like he did before the injury, I think he is safe.  And to say that a rookie UDFA we picked up this year is likely his replacement is a bit wishful thinking.

 

I think Werner could replace Walden, but Mathis also needs replacing about 2015 too.  There needs to be another OLB to show that he can make an impact before we think about cutting Walden.....which is why I say I don't think it will happen.  Besides, even though Walden isn't spectacular, he's pretty solid.....and durable.

 

For RJF to be cut, someone has to step up.  Is there confidence that Hughes or Pendleton can take RJF's place in 2015?  And like Walden, RJF is pretty solid and durable.  And Redding may not be back after this season, making a case to keep a solid veteran like RJF.

[Superman]

I don't really think those guys are overpaid, either, and if so, only by a little. The market was weird in 2013, so it's kind of hard to really determine what players were asking for vs. what teams were willing to pay. I think Grigson and Pagano decided who they wanted, targeted them, and got the deals done. I don't think there was a lot of hand-wringing about an extra million a year, especially since they got away with pretty small signing bonuses on those four players. 

[dw49]

I don't really think those guys are overpaid, either, and if so, only by a little. The market was weird in 2013, so it's kind of hard to really determine what players were asking for vs. what teams were willing to pay. I think Grigson and Pagano decided who they wanted, targeted them, and got the deals done. I don't think there was a lot of hand-wringing about an extra million a year, especially since they got away with pretty small signing bonuses on those four players. 

  

 

When I said they were "overpaid" , I meant to their relative body of work in the NFL when he signed them. If Tolar shakes the injury bug , he should be fine . RJF is OK , not great at that price and the juries out on Waldron. That would be my opinion.

[dw49]

I can't disagree too much.

 

I don't know if those three players will necessarily be overpaid in 2015, considering how much the cap has gone up in 2014 and 2015.  Grigs may have overpaid early on, but that really isn't a whole lot different than giving guaranteed money (which he didn't) and the Colts had the space to give the salary. 

 

As far as other replies.....

 

The question with Toler is injury.  If he plays like he did before the injury, I think he is safe.  And to say that a rookie UDFA we picked up this year is likely his replacement is a bit wishful thinking.

 

I think Werner could replace Walden, but Mathis also needs replacing about 2015 too.  There needs to be another OLB to show that he can make an impact before we think about cutting Walden.....which is why I say I don't think it will happen.  Besides, even though Walden isn't spectacular, he's pretty solid.....and durable.

 

For RJF to be cut, someone has to step up.  Is there confidence that Hughes or Pendleton can take RJF's place in 2015?  And like Walden, RJF is pretty solid and durable.  And Redding may not be back after this season, making a case to keep a solid veteran like RJF.

 

 

I also think Tolar is safe and agree that Mathis will be getting long in the tooth after this contract is up.