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Colts History and a little about Johnny U


texascolt

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This slow time, so I thought I would give a little insight of the colts history.  First tell you a little about myself.   I've been a colts fan since 1956 or 1957.  I  don't even know why I became a fan.  I was raised in the Northwest, so there were no ties to Baltimore.

 

I'm new to posting here, but I kind of lurk around all the forums.  Used to post a lot on the Indy Star

forum before they took it down.

 

The first colt team was formed when All-American Football Conference (AAFC) Miami Seahawks

folded.   The AAFC was founded in 1944 and was competing against the NFL for players and attendance.

 

It was in 1946 when they folded and the owners gave up their franchise.  A Baltimore group bought

the franchise and moved them to Baltimore and changed the name to colts.  The Colts kept the 

Seahawk colors of green & silver.

 

The colts played in the AAFC until 1950 the AAFC and NFL merged.

 

After posting a 1-11 record for two consecutive years, the franchise was dissolved by the league

on January 18, 1951.

 

After two seasons without an NFL team, Commissioner Bert Bell challenged Baltimore to sell

15,000 season tickets in six weeks.  That quota was reached in four weeks and four days.

 

On January 23, 1953, under the principal ownership of Carroll Rosenbloom , the NFL sold the Dallas

Texans franchise to Baltimore, keeping the "Colts" nickname and the Texans team colors

of blue and white.

 

Memorial Stadium revenues, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife desire to the West coast, Rosenbloom wanted to sell the team.  Real estate investor Will Keland  was originally 

going to buy the colts, but couldn't get the funds to make the purchase.  Keland's golfing

buddy Robert Irsay did.  On July 13, 1972, Irsay became of the colts.  Under the terms of the arrangement, Irsay bought the LA rams for 19 million, then trade them to Rosenbloom for the colts

and 3 million in cash.  The players remained in their respective cities.

 

After years of failing to get any improvements to Memorial Stadium, Irsay started looking at other cities.  He had discussions with several cities that want an NFL franchise.  He eventually narrowed

the list of cities to Phoenix and Indy.

 

Indy made an offer for the colts to move there, and Baltimore was unable to persuade to them to stay.

                     ******This is the part you don't hear Baltimore fans talk about.****

 

The city (Baltimore) government attempted to get the state legislature to condemn the colts

franchise and give ownership to another group that would promise to keep the team in

Baltimore.

 

So with the threat of eminent domain, Irsay move HIS team to Indy in the middle of the night.

 

Just a little side note here.  The Colts (Baltimore) was the first NFL team to have cheer leaders and

a marching band.   I don't have the dates, sorry.

 

Here is a little about Johnny Unitas.

 

Went to university of Louisville (1951 - 55)

 

Johnny was drafted in the ninth round by the Pittsburg Steelers.  He was released as the odd man out among four QBs trying to fill 3 spots.  Among those edging out Unitas out was TED MARCHIBRODA.

 

He moved to Bloomfield NJ.  He played semi-pro for Bloomfield Rams for $6 a game.

 

A fan noticed Johnny's abilities, and brought his attention to a colts scout.

 

Unitas was given a tryout by the colts, and signed to a contract as a back-up to QB George Shaw.

In the fourth game (1956-57 season) Shaw broke his leg*****The rest is history!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"Indy made them an offer, and Baltimore was unable to pursuade them to stay." This is the part Baltimore fans don't want to talk about ? Baltimore had a very competitive deal on the table, and Irsay still left. We couldn't pursuade him because he wanted to leave all along . Your insights to Baltimore Colts history looks like it was taken from the Indy - biased blog that appeared earlier on this forum, or a lame Wikipedia version that lacks detail. The Unitas tidbits are good, but the rest is an oversimplification of the move.

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"Indy made them an offer, and Baltimore was unable to pursuade them to stay." This is the part Baltimore fans don't want to talk about ? Baltimore had a very competitive deal on the table, and Irsay still left. We couldn't pursuade him because he wanted to leave all along . Your insights to Baltimore Colts history looks like it was taken from the Indy - biased blog that appeared earlier on this forum, or a lame Wikipedia version that lacks detail. The Unitas tidbits are good, but the rest is an oversimplification of the move.

So I see you are still beating a dead horse? (Bob Irsay) I think the subject has been argued, hashed and scrambled enough over all these years to just stop and let it go.

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I think they already found it , as I've seen this half story before.

So what competitive deal did they have on the table when they refused to renovate their stadium?  How is that competitive to a new facility?  And if it was such a good deal, why make the move to hurry and try to take the team from him?

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So I see you are still beating a dead horse? (Bob Irsay) I think the subject has been argued, hashed and scrambled enough over all these years to just stop and let it go.

I'm not beating a dead horse as I didn't start the thread. I'm reacting and commenting on the inaccuracies. You can throw this one into the other thread.

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So what competitive deal did they have on the table when they refused to renovate their stadium?  How is that competitive to a new facility?  And if it was such a good deal, why make the move to hurry and try to take the team from him?

They met all his demands for a second time , but it obviously wasn't enough. The problem was the demands kept changing as he bargained from city to city , one off another. As I explained, the Eminent Domain was a last resort action as they thought he was as good as gone . With all the confusion with negotiations with Phoenix, Indy , and Baltimore, it is easy to see why it happened. I agree, a new stadium should have been built, and the blue laws scrapped. Anyway, they left , but they should have just left the logos and records behind. Irsay would have been gone, we kept our history, Indy would have had a team, and Baltimore should have gotten a team back in three years, so the Browns wouldn't have had to move. That part was more of a mistake than the move itself. But, 30 years later, things turned out pretty well for Baltimore.

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They met all his demands for a second time , but it obviously wasn't enough. The problem was the demands kept changing as he bargained from city to city , one off another. As I explained, the Eminent Domain was a last resort action as they thought he was as good as gone . With all the confusion with negotiations with Phoenix, Indy , and Baltimore, it is easy to see why it happened. I agree, a new stadium should have been built, and the blue laws scrapped. Anyway, they left , but they should have just left the logos and records behind. Irsay would have been gone, we kept our history, Indy would have had a team, and Baltimore should have gotten a team back in three years, so the Browns wouldn't have had to move. That part was more of a mistake than the move itself. But, 30 years later, things turned out pretty well for Baltimore.

Did St. Louis, Oakland and Houston (who later changed their name) leave their name and records? No. People seem to forget or overlook a NFL is owned by a businessman (except for Green Bay) and as a business has every right to determine where and what name is to be used. You say that Irsay should have left the records and the logo, why should he? He owned all of the rights to his team. Any owner would have done exactly what he did. Leaving a crumbling stadium and very low attendance into a new state of the art dome and a city that fully supported the team was an easy choice for any owner who was facing what was going on in Baltimore. The NFL is a business and I know of no business facing doom that wouldn't take the best deal to survive. As you say, Baltimore and Indianapolis are doing well.

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Sorry, I didn't  know this had been posted.

I have no clue where it is....so your post seems fine to the old LB texascolt :)

 

Everyone has their opinions on THE MOVE.  I stay out of that one.  I loved the Baltimore Colts as well as OUR Indianapolis Colts.

 

Thank you for the post. :thmup:  :coltslogo:  :coltslogo:  :coltslogo:  :coltshelmet:  :coltshelmet:  :coltshelmet: !!!

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Been a fan since 7 years old in 76'. I love both of the Colts eras. Live 2 hrs south of Baltimore. Can remember 2 other kids back then that actually liked the Colts even when they were here. Everybody else were Redskins fans. Maybe more north lay all the Colts fans? I believe Irsay wanted to keep the Colts here but the baseball Orioles were really good at that time and took precedence over the Colts? From what I`ve read MD voters were given the opportunity to build a new stadium thus keeping the Colts and voted "NO". The chance was there but wasn't taken advantage of. The law to take effect the next morning stripping Irsay of the Colts is what forced Irsay to move immediately but as always, the media twists it to look like he`s the sneaky bad guy moving in the middle of the night. I hate seeing the 2 fan bases squabble over this, it was a devastating move for original Colts fans. I was a 14 year old without a football team. I grew up in a Bert Jones #7 Colts replica jersey that Santa Clause brought me lol..and I always get a smile on my face when I see pictures posted here of kids in little #18 or now #12 jerseys, I was THAT kid once! And I`m sure Indy fans are tired of hearing about it. Wish ALL the Colts history could be shared amongst us fans in one "happy place"..   

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Sorry, I didn't  know this had been posted.

your post was good stuff to read. As you have found already, many on the forum have separate levels of ''fandom'' for the Colts. Some are only "Baltimore" Colts fans, some are only "Indy" Colts fans, and some are "Colts" fans no matter where they play. I am like you and several others that are Colts fans of both eras and diehard, I might add. Been a Colts fan for 47 seasons through 2 Super Bowl wins during that time period as well as the bad 1,2 or 3 win seasons. They could play in Topeka, Kansas or Spokane, Washington and I would still be a Colts fan. Welcome to the forum.

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Been a fan since 7 years old in 76'. I love both of the Colts eras. Live 2 hrs south of Baltimore. Can remember 2 other kids back then that actually liked the Colts even when they were here. Everybody else were Redskins fans. Maybe more north lay all the Colts fans? I believe Irsay wanted to keep the Colts here but the baseball Orioles were really good at that time and took precedence over the Colts? From what I`ve read MD voters were given the opportunity to build a new stadium thus keeping the Colts and voted "NO". The chance was there but wasn't taken advantage of. The law to take effect the next morning stripping Irsay of the Colts is what forced Irsay to move immediately but as always, the media twists it to look like he`s the sneaky bad guy moving in the middle of the night. I hate seeing the 2 fan bases squabble over this, it was a devastating move for original Colts fans. I was a 14 year old without a football team. I grew up in a Bert Jones #7 Colts replica jersey that Santa Clause brought me lol..and I always get a smile on my face when I see pictures posted here of kids in little #18 or now #12 jerseys, I was THAT kid once! And I`m sure Indy fans are tired of hearing about it. Wish ALL the Colts history could be shared amongst us fans in one "happy place"..   

Bert, Lydell, Roger and that offense were amazing. Especially after the previous 3 seasons were so bad ('72-'74). What a ride '75-'77 was. The Sack Pack added to the quality of those 3 Division winning teams and Ted Marchibroda was a solid coach.

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Been a fan since 7 years old in 76'. I love both of the Colts eras. Live 2 hrs south of Baltimore. Can remember 2 other kids back then that actually liked the Colts even when they were here. Everybody else were Redskins fans. Maybe more north lay all the Colts fans? I believe Irsay wanted to keep the Colts here but the baseball Orioles were really good at that time and took precedence over the Colts? From what I`ve read MD voters were given the opportunity to build a new stadium thus keeping the Colts and voted "NO". The chance was there but wasn't taken advantage of. The law to take effect the next morning stripping Irsay of the Colts is what forced Irsay to move immediately but as always, the media twists it to look like he`s the sneaky bad guy moving in the middle of the night. I hate seeing the 2 fan bases squabble over this, it was a devastating move for original Colts fans. I was a 14 year old without a football team. I grew up in a Bert Jones #7 Colts replica jersey that Santa Clause brought me lol..and I always get a smile on my face when I see pictures posted here of kids in little #18 or now #12 jerseys, I was THAT kid once! And I`m sure Indy fans are tired of hearing about it. Wish ALL the Colts history could be shared amongst us fans in one "happy place"..   

Really love the post!

 

As previously stated, it is a rather worn out and thoroughly beaten to death topic, but at times I really get sad and feel sorry for the Baltimore Colts fans. Especially those who were not season ticket holders, but TV watchers, and had nothing to do with the mutiny at the stadium - which is what it was really all about over the last 6 or 7 years the Colts spent in Baltimore. As any astute businessman knows, when the venue is 1/2 full for extended periods - it is time to get out of dodge. You just can't survive - the stadium is your bread and butter. ESPECIALLY back then!

 

In my experience -  and I spent more time than I like to admit in the greater Baltimore area - so many of the Baltimore Colts fans are so busy playing the VICTIM card it completely clouds their vision. They refuse to see the NFL as a business and they are in complete denial about taking RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. It's like - Oh my, look what that evil Irsay man did to US!!!!!! How DARE he take away OUR TEAM!  He stole our team and ran off in the middle of the night! That beast!

 

As we all know, that wasn't quite the story. Kudos to SOMDC Colts Fan! I also wish all the Colts History could be shared amongst the fans in one happy place.

 

One day, when we finally hit our final resting place - maybe then, there will be a heavenly Colts shrine we can all agree on!

 

ColtsHappy

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Been a fan since 7 years old in 76'. I love both of the Colts eras. Live 2 hrs south of Baltimore. Can remember 2 other kids back then that actually liked the Colts even when they were here. Everybody else were Redskins fans. Maybe more north lay all the Colts fans? I believe Irsay wanted to keep the Colts here but the baseball Orioles were really good at that time and took precedence over the Colts? From what I`ve read MD voters were given the opportunity to build a new stadium thus keeping the Colts and voted "NO". The chance was there but wasn't taken advantage of. The law to take effect the next morning stripping Irsay of the Colts is what forced Irsay to move immediately but as always, the media twists it to look like he`s the sneaky bad guy moving in the middle of the night. I hate seeing the 2 fan bases squabble over this, it was a devastating move for original Colts fans. I was a 14 year old without a football team. I grew up in a Bert Jones #7 Colts replica jersey that Santa Clause brought me lol..and I always get a smile on my face when I see pictures posted here of kids in little #18 or now #12 jerseys, I was THAT kid once! And I`m sure Indy fans are tired of hearing about it. Wish ALL the Colts history could be shared amongst us fans in one "happy place"..   

I like the Baltimore Colts w/ Unitus I was able to catch the very last 2yrs of Unitus's career w/ Colts b4 SD trade,,,,I LOVED Unitus and Loved Bert Jones,,,,,,,,,,,,,,both were great QBs Jones was so great also,,,I rem that Double overtime game w./the Raiders in Memorial Stadium watching on tv Colts had their chances o win,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What a game,,,,,,,,Thx. Johnny U.and Bert Jones and all the Baltimore Colts,,,,,,,,,,,,And Indy is the Baltimore Colts the Ravens are not the Colts nor will they ever be!!!!

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I like the Baltimore Colts w/ Unitus I was able to catch the very last 2yrs of Unitus's career w/ Colts b4 SD trade,,,,I LOVED Unitus and Loved Bert Jones,,,,,,,,,,,,,,both were great QBs Jones was so great also,,,I rem that Double overtime game w./the Raiders in Memorial Stadium watching on tv Colts had their chances o win,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What a game,,,,,,,,Thx. Johnny U.and Bert Jones and all the Baltimore Colts,,,,,,,,,,,,And Indy is the Baltimore Colts the Ravens are not the Colts nor will they ever be!!!!

How can Indy be the Baltimore Colts when they never played in Baltimore ? They didn't have a team or stadium back then.

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Really love the post!

 

As previously stated, it is a rather worn out and thoroughly beaten to death topic, but at times I really get sad and feel sorry for the Baltimore Colts fans. Especially those who were not season ticket holders, but TV watchers, and had nothing to do with the mutiny at the stadium - which is what it was really all about over the last 6 or 7 years the Colts spent in Baltimore. As any astute businessman knows, when the venue is 1/2 full for extended periods - it is time to get out of dodge. You just can't survive - the stadium is your bread and butter. ESPECIALLY back then!

 

In my experience -  and I spent more time than I like to admit in the greater

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Really love the post!

 

As previously stated, it is a rather worn out and thoroughly beaten to death topic, but at times I really get sad and feel sorry for the Baltimore Colts fans. Especially those who were not season ticket holders, but TV watchers, and had nothing to do with the mutiny at the stadium - which is what it was really all about over the last 6 or 7 years the Colts spent in Baltimore. As any astute businessman knows, when the venue is 1/2 full for extended periods - it is time to get out of dodge. You just can't survive - the stadium is your bread and butter. ESPECIALLY back then!

 

In my experience -  and I spent more time than I like to admit in the greater Baltimore area - so many of the Baltimore Colts fans are so busy playing the VICTIM card it completely clouds their vision. They refuse to see the NFL as a business and they are in complete denial about taking RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. It's like - Oh my, look what that evil Irsay man did to US!!!!!! How DARE he take away OUR TEAM!  He stole our team and ran off in the middle of the night! That beast!

 

As we all know, that wasn't quite the story. Kudos to SOMDC Colts Fan! I also wish all the Colts History could be shared amongst the fans in one happy place.

 

One day, when we finally hit our final resting place - maybe then, there will be a heavenly Colts shrine we can all agree on!

 

ColtsHappy

You always seem to bash the Baltimore fan. Did you ever consider what we did for the NFL with sellout attendance in the 50's , 60's , and early 70's , when other teams rarely sold out stadiums ? Baltimore was very important to NFL history with the greatest game ever played in 1958, and our loss in Super Bowl 3. This all had nothing to do with the Irsay's. You seem to concentrate on the last six years when we still averaged 43,000 fans in a stadium that usually held 53,000 , except when they opened up the baseball seats . Had Elway showed up, like when Manning and Luck showed up after your attendance was down, the seats would have again been filled.

Business is always a component, but the main factors in the move was the stadium, Irsay's behavior , the constant threat of moving , poor product, blue laws, bad trades, and so on. To fully understand the move, it is highly important to understand the implications of the Raiders suit against the NFL at the time.

Like the original guy with the one sided blog, here you have another example of someone popping on the forum, and giving a pro Indy Wiki version of the move. My mission, is to give the full context of it, and at least I admit Baltimore politicians were partially at fault. No one ever says anything about carpet bagging politicians in Indy or Phoenix that were trying to steal another community's team. I'm on record saying I don't like what our carpet bagging politicians did to Cleveland.

That being said, it all went down, and we are all where we are. All three city's have teams , so it's all good. I just like to give a larger context historically to the move that you don't generally see here.

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I like the Baltimore Colts w/ Unitus I was able to catch the very last 2yrs of Unitus's career w/ Colts b4 SD trade,,,,I LOVED Unitus and Loved Bert Jones,,,,,,,,,,,,,,both were great QBs Jones was so great also,,,I rem that Double overtime game w./the Raiders in Memorial Stadium watching on tv Colts had their chances o win,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What a game,,,,,,,,Thx. Johnny U.and Bert Jones and all the Baltimore Colts,,,,,,,,,,,,And Indy is the Baltimore Colts the Ravens are not the Colts nor will they ever be!!!!

I feel the same. And a fan since '67. And that DOT game in '77 was unreal. If Bert had not overthrown Raymond Chester in OT.

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You always seem to bash the Baltimore fan. Did you ever consider what we did for the NFL with sellout attendance in the 50's , 60's , and early 70's , when other teams rarely sold out stadiums ? Baltimore was very important to NFL history with the greatest game ever played in 1958, and our loss in Super Bowl 3. This all had nothing to do with the Irsay's. You seem to concentrate on the last six years when we still averaged 43,000 fans in a stadium that usually held 53,000 , except when they opened up the baseball seats . Had Elway showed up, like when Manning and Luck showed up after your attendance was down, the seats would have again been filled.

Business is always a component, but the main factors in the move was the stadium, Irsay's behavior , the constant threat of moving , poor product, blue laws, bad trades, and so on. To fully understand the move, it is highly important to understand the implications of the Raiders suit against the NFL at the time.

Like the original guy with the one sided blog, here you have another example of someone popping on the forum, and giving a pro Indy Wiki version of the move. My mission, is to give the full context of it, and at least I admit Baltimore politicians were partially at fault. No one ever says anything about carpet bagging politicians in Indy or Phoenix that were trying to steal another community's team. I'm on record saying I don't like what our carpet bagging politicians did to Cleveland.

That being said, it all went down, and we are all where we are. All three city's have teams , so it's all good. I just like to give a larger context historically to the move that you don't generally see here.

Wow, talk about denial - talk about VICTIM - talk about not taking responsibility - talk about excuses - heard it all for years and years and years and I am sick of it.

 

Just because Baltimore was wrong in the way they treated their team - by not showing up at the stadium, by not expeditiously providing the groundwork for a new stadium, for trying to seize the team which they had no right to do - doesn't mean I don't have compassion and respect for the Baltimore people and their fans. I just wish they had more respect for themselves and they would take responsibility for the simple fact that they drove the team out of town, but they don't and they never will.

 

You try to make such a simple issue sound so complex, it amazes me.

 

I know you will have the last word here, as you always do - don't expect me to respond - I am more than tired of your "explanations" and wining drivel. It does not serve to further, simple as that.

 

Best to you - after your partial quote of my post I wondered if you passed out on us or something.....

 

:D

 

ColtsHappy

and yes, that includes BALTIMORE, quite happy about it all - thank you very much! Can't WAIT for the Baltimore game. How fun.

 

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This slow time, so I thought I would give a little insight of the colts history.  First tell you a little about myself.   I've been a colts fan since 1956 or 1957.  I  don't even know why I became a fan.  I was raised in the Northwest, so there were no ties to Baltimore.

 

I'm new to posting here, but I kind of lurk around all the forums.  Used to post a lot on the Indy Star

forum before they took it down.

 

The first colt team was formed when All-American Football Conference (AAFC) Miami Seahawks

folded.   The AAFC was founded in 1944 and was competing against the NFL for players and attendance.

 

It was in 1946 when they folded and the owners gave up their franchise.  A Baltimore group bought

the franchise and moved them to Baltimore and changed the name to colts.  The Colts kept the 

Seahawk colors of green & silver.

 

The colts played in the AAFC until 1950 the AAFC and NFL merged.

 

After posting a 1-11 record for two consecutive years, the franchise was dissolved by the league

on January 18, 1951.

 

After two seasons without an NFL team, Commissioner Bert Bell challenged Baltimore to sell

15,000 season tickets in six weeks.  That quota was reached in four weeks and four days.

 

On January 23, 1953, under the principal ownership of Carroll Rosenbloom , the NFL sold the Dallas

Texans franchise to Baltimore, keeping the "Colts" nickname and the Texans team colors

of blue and white.

 

Memorial Stadium revenues, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife desire to the West coast, Rosenbloom wanted to sell the team.  Real estate investor Will Keland  was originally 

going to buy the colts, but couldn't get the funds to make the purchase.  Keland's golfing

buddy Robert Irsay did.  On July 13, 1972, Irsay became of the colts.  Under the terms of the arrangement, Irsay bought the LA rams for 19 million, then trade them to Rosenbloom for the colts

and 3 million in cash.  The players remained in their respective cities.

 

After years of failing to get any improvements to Memorial Stadium, Irsay started looking at other cities.  He had discussions with several cities that want an NFL franchise.  He eventually narrowed

the list of cities to Phoenix and Indy.

 

Indy made an offer for the colts to move there, and Baltimore was unable to persuade to them to stay.

                     ******This is the part you don't hear Baltimore fans talk about.****

 

The city (Baltimore) government attempted to get the state legislature to condemn the colts

franchise and give ownership to another group that would promise to keep the team in

Baltimore.

 

So with the threat of eminent domain, Irsay move HIS team to Indy in the middle of the night.

 

Just a little side note here.  The Colts (Baltimore) was the first NFL team to have cheer leaders and

a marching band.   I don't have the dates, sorry.

 

Here is a little about Johnny Unitas.

 

Went to university of Louisville (1951 - 55)

 

Johnny was drafted in the ninth round by the Pittsburg Steelers.  He was released as the odd man out among four QBs trying to fill 3 spots.  Among those edging out Unitas out was TED MARCHIBRODA.

 

He moved to Bloomfield NJ.  He played semi-pro for Bloomfield Rams for $6 a game.

 

A fan noticed Johnny's abilities, and brought his attention to a colts scout.

 

Unitas was given a tryout by the colts, and signed to a contract as a back-up to QB George Shaw.

In the fourth game (1956-57 season) Shaw broke his leg*****The rest is history!

I admire your blue horseshoe devotion texascolt. You've certainly trumped me tenure wise just on longevity alone. Plus, I like hearing from INDY fans that live outside of the Hoosier State or even country because that type of loyalty means more because of the backlash you face not giving blind allegiance to Houston for instance.

 

I myself deal with a ton of criticism because I do not blindly support the Green Bay Packers. Thank you for sharing your insights regarding Colts lore & league history very cool.  :thmup:

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Wow, talk about denial - talk about VICTIM - talk about not taking responsibility - talk about excuses - heard it all for years and years and years and I am sick of it.

 

Just because Baltimore was wrong in the way they treated their team - by not showing up at the stadium, by not expeditiously providing the groundwork for a new stadium, for trying to seize the team which they had no right to do - doesn't mean I don't have compassion and respect for the Baltimore people and their fans. I just wish they had more respect for themselves and they would take responsibility for the simple fact that they drove the team out of town, but they don't and they never will.

 

You try to make such a simple issue sound so complex, it amazes me.

 

I know you will have the last word here, as you always do - don't expect me to respond - I am more than tired of your "explanations" and wining drivel. It does not serve to further, simple as that.

 

Best to you - after your partial quote of my post I wondered if you passed out on us or something.....

 

:D

 

ColtsHappy

and yes, that includes BALTIMORE, quite happy about it all - thank you very much! Can't WAIT for the Baltimore game. How fun.

 

 

 

Yes I will get in the last word about statements that are blatantly wrong. Whether you respond to this or not, I could really care less, but am more concerned with setting the record straight. For the 90th time, Baltimore fans showed up in similar numbers to Indianapolis fans when both teams had losing records. This is something that happens in every city except in apparently the unreal utopia you have created that does not exist. How do fans drive a team out of town ? Were they suddenly not Baltimore Colts fans ? That is utterly ridiculous. Some were temporarily discouraged, the same as they were in Indy when they didn't fill the Hoosier Dome for many years, or the Curtis Painter year, but like all fans, they were ready to come back when they had hope. 

 

You haven't countered any of my points and facts, and I don't expect you to, because you take an utterly simplistic approach of blaming Baltimore fans for the move. My explanations are detailed facts of what happened from someone who actually lived it. It was a very complex issue if you really knew anything about it. 

 

How are we victims? We won four Championships with the Baltimore Colts, and have two Super Bowls with the Baltimore Ravens in only 18 years. This is hardly a city of victims, but a city that has been aptly rewarded for supporting two great eras of Baltimore Football history, and helping to make the NFL what it is.

 

Finally, you are going to give Bob Irsay a complete pass? You wanted sellouts when he was going to stadiums in Jacksonville, Indy, Phoenix, Nashville, and Memphis and shopping the team around only three years after he bought them. You wanted sellouts after only three winning seasons in twelve years, trading John Elway, treating Unitas horribly, blasting players in the locker room, trading away the best players, making demands, having them met, and then increasing the demands. You either have selective memory, or really don't understand Colt's history, much of it substantiated by interviews with his own son. Indy couldn't fill the Hoosier Dome during many of the Bob Irsay years, and didn't go through anything like the Baltimore fans had to, especially the last six years. Look, the Yankees and Red Sox had empty stadiums when their teams stunk and were mismanaged ! Baltimore was no different, and neither was Indy ! You can be sick of it, or call it an excuse, but it happens in every city, and it happened in your beloved city of Indy. 

 

Let the next challenger come on. I will always fight misinformation, or half stories, with facts, or the other side of the story. It's just the way it is.

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Look crow, I wasn't trying to start anything with the post. I was' aware of the previous posts. There wasn't much going so, I thought it would be an

interesting topic.

You keep saying "that there are some blatantly wrong facts". I ask you once

before what statement is wrong, but you didn't answer.

The facts remains that the Baltimore officials would not make repairs to a

decaying stadium.

Irsay shopped the team around, Baltimore officials didn't want the colts to

leave, so they were trying to take them from Irsay, So he moved them

to Indy.

Now, what is wrong with that?

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"Indy made them an offer, and Baltimore was unable to pursuade them to stay." This is the part Baltimore fans don't want to talk about ? Baltimore had a very competitive deal on the table, and Irsay still left. We couldn't pursuade him because he wanted to leave all along . Your insights to Baltimore Colts history looks like it was taken from the Indy - biased blog that appeared earlier on this forum, or a lame Wikipedia version that lacks detail. The Unitas tidbits are good, but the rest is an oversimplification of the move.

 

What competitive offer, and what offer was fully met without alteration?  I found these gems {and more} hidden on the Towson.edu site-

 

      "In 1972, Robert Irsay purchased the Colts by buying the Los Angeles Rams and trading the franchise to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash.  However, a storm had been brewing since the previous year in regards to the need for a new athletic facility to support the Baltimore sports franchises which played in the old and outdated memorial Stadium. After a stadium committee examined the old Baltimore Stadium in comparison to the amenities which could be provided by a new location, planners crated "project Baltodome."  This facility was planned for construction in Camden Yards and could hold 70,000 football fans, 55,000 for baseball, and 20,000 as an arena for basketball and hockey, all for the price tag of $78 million.  However, the city comptroller, Hyman Pressman, was against the use of public funds for a new complex.  He added a city charter amendment to the 1974 election which made Baltimore Stadium "a memorial to war veterans" and also prevented the use of public funds for any new arenas. This amendment passed 56%-44%, effectively killing any plans of a new location.  As a result, Irsay began talks with the city of Phoenix Arizona in 1976 and William Hudnut, mayor of Indianapolis Indiana the following year about relocating the team.  In 1979, he began "shopping" more intensely to even more cities such as Memphis TN, Los Angeles CA, and Jacksonville FL.  In an attempt to keep the team in Baltimore, Irsay made a $25 million proposal to the city legislature, which they responded with a $2 million reduction and the requirement for the Colts and Orioles to sign long term contracts to stay. Irsay refused, personally ending any intent to keep the franchise in Charm City."

 

City and state of MD said private industry had to build a stadium, that they and the taxpayers weren't and convinced residents to pass legislation to prevent it from happening {the referenced 56%-44%}. Later that year, residents of Baltimore rescinded that legislation 62% - 38%,  long after the horses had already left out the barn door.  Too little, too late.  When Colts arrived in Indy, I understand the city of Baltimore had made an offer to purchase the team for $40 million. When it was not responded to, they immediately condemned the Colts and served papers to Indy to take the team back via eminent domain. That was struck down via the district court, and the NFL never intervened in the move process.

 

Just be thankful news of the move leaked to your marching band director.  Uniforms and equipment were removed from Owings Mills facilities just before the Mayflower trucks arrived. Otherwise, you might have lost your marching band, too!

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They met all his demands for a second time , but it obviously wasn't enough. The problem was the demands kept changing as he bargained from city to city , one off another. As I explained, the Eminent Domain was a last resort action as they thought he was as good as gone . With all the confusion with negotiations with Phoenix, Indy , and Baltimore, it is easy to see why it happened. I agree, a new stadium should have been built, and the blue laws scrapped. Anyway, they left , but they should have just left the logos and records behind. Irsay would have been gone, we kept our history, Indy would have had a team, and Baltimore should have gotten a team back in three years, so the Browns wouldn't have had to move. That part was more of a mistake than the move itself. But, 30 years later, things turned out pretty well for Baltimore.

All parties on both sides have to be in compete and full agreement.  That never happened.

Show proof or this is nothing but a lie.  I have references from Towson edu site for my statements above.

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Look crow, I wasn't trying to start anything with the post. I was' aware of the previous posts. There wasn't much going so, I thought it would be aninteresting topic.You keep saying "that there are some blatantly wrong facts". I ask you oncebefore what statement is wrong, but you didn't answer.The facts remains that the Baltimore officials would not make repairs to adecaying stadium.Irsay shopped the team around, Baltimore officials didn't want the colts toleave, so they were trying to take them from Irsay, So he moved themto Indy.Now, what is wrong with that?

That's right, but there is more to it. Kind of a thumbnail version of the move.

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What competitive offer, and what offer was fully met without alteration?  I found these gems {and more} hidden on the Towson.edu site-

 

      "In 1972, Robert Irsay purchased the Colts by buying the Los Angeles Rams and trading the franchise to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash.  However, a storm had been brewing since the previous year in regards to the need for a new athletic facility to support the Baltimore sports franchises which played in the old and outdated memorial Stadium. After a stadium committee examined the old Baltimore Stadium in comparison to the amenities which could be provided by a new location, planners crated "project Baltodome."  This facility was planned for construction in Camden Yards and could hold 70,000 football fans, 55,000 for baseball, and 20,000 as an arena for basketball and hockey, all for the price tag of $78 million.  However, the city comptroller, Hyman Pressman, was against the use of public funds for a new complex.  He added a city charter amendment to the 1974 election which made Baltimore Stadium "a memorial to war veterans" and also prevented the use of public funds for any new arenas. This amendment passed 56%-44%, effectively killing any plans of a new location.  As a result, Irsay began talks with the city of Phoenix Arizona in 1976 and William Hudnut, mayor of Indianapolis Indiana the following year about relocating the team.  In 1979, he began "shopping" more intensely to even more cities such as Memphis TN, Los Angeles CA, and Jacksonville FL.  In an attempt to keep the team in Baltimore, Irsay made a $25 million proposal to the city legislature, which they responded with a $2 million reduction and the requirement for the Colts and Orioles to sign long term contracts to stay. Irsay refused, personally ending any intent to keep the franchise in Charm City."

 

City and state of MD said private industry had to build a stadium, that they and the taxpayers weren't and convinced residents to pass legislation to prevent it from happening {the referenced 56%-44%}. Later that year, residents of Baltimore rescinded that legislation 62% - 38%,  long after the horses had already left out the barn door.  Too little, too late.  When Colts arrived in Indy, I understand the city of Baltimore had made an offer to purchase the team for $40 million. When it was not responded to, they immediately condemned the Colts and served papers to Indy to take the team back via eminent domain. That was struck down via the district court, and the NFL never intervened in the move process.

 

Just be thankful news of the move leaked to your marching band director.  Uniforms and equipment were removed from Owings Mills facilities just before the Mayflower trucks arrived. Otherwise, you might have lost your marching band, too!

Some good info from the great Towson University. Yes word did leak and Mrs Irsay let the guys keep their uniforms. Bob would have taken them also, along with the kitchen sink in Owings Mills. Anyway, the Unitas family later got back the Unitas memorabilia he took, and the Super Bowl 5 trophy as part of the settlement. I guess Harriet Irsay was a Good Samaritan .

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Some good info from the great Towson University. Yes word did leak and Mrs Irsay let the guys keep their uniforms. Bob would have taken them also, along with the kitchen sink in Owings Mills. Anyway, the Unitas family later got back the Unitas memorabilia he took, and the Super Bowl 5 trophy as part of the settlement. I guess Harriet Irsay was a Good Samaritan .

 

Actually, I believe Carol Rosenbloom took the SB 5 trophy with him to LA in the trade with Irsay, and the city of Baltimore had to order a copy of it from Tiffany and Co.

 

If there is more to the story, then please  post it so we can check it out and verify it and maybe have more sensitivity to the fans of the Baltimore area. Contribute with substance or move on. It seems you are just stirring the pot without adding flavorful ingredients to the stew. I think we'd like you to put on the chef hat and serve up the goodies you say are blatantly missing.  Don't forget the references to support your position to separate opinion from fact, please.

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Actually, I believe Carol Rosenbloom took the SB 5 trophy with him to LA in the trade with Irsay, and the city of Baltimore had to order a copy of it from Tiffany and Co.

 

If there is more to the story, then please  post it so we can check it out and verify it and maybe have more sensitivity to the fans of the Baltimore area. Contribute with substance or move on. It seems you are just stirring the pot without adding flavorful ingredients to the stew. I think we'd like you to put on the chef hat and serve up the goodies you say are blatantly missing.  Don't forget the references to support your position to separate opinion from fact, please.

You like to test your strength, excellent . Trust me, I will answer everything you want. Just got back from business trip but will dispatch you like the other pretenders. I've already answered this in many other posts, but I will put together another vigorous defense

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You like to test your strength, excellent . Trust me, I will answer everything you want. Just got back from business trip but will dispatch you like the other pretenders. I've already answered this in many other posts, but I will put together another vigorous defense

 

In the interim, I will be looking back up the old web sites I hashed this out on before, and look for new information to debunk any parry you make...

 

Have at it...   ;)

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In the interim, I will be looking back up the old web sites I hashed this out on before, and look for new information to debunk any parry you make...

 

Have at it...   ;)

Ahem - Since I am no longer speaking to Old Crow, us Colts fans will have a little yahoo! (Feel free to chime in Colts fans!)

 

You know, I like to think of it like this - there are two kinds of thinkers in this wonderful world of ours - there are the BIG PICTURE folks, the BIG THINKERS - the doers, the ones who move mountains - the ones who can analyze any problem, drink in every detail, and still solve the problem at hand and accomplish any task. Their genius lies in their ability to cast insignificant details aside in favor of the more obvious BIG PICTURE facts. These BIG PICTURE folks intuitively and innately know how to simplify the issue and perhaps more importantly - they realize exactly how important it is to do so. They have the uncanny and reasonably rare ability to see the BIG PICTURE and not get bogged down in the minor and reasonably insignificant details of an issue. This is a gift, not everyone has it. Facts are facts and once the insignificant details - which cloud the clarity of any reasonable BIG PICTURE person - are put aside, those facts speak for themselves - and feed directly into the input sensors of the BIG THINKING person. He GETS it and knows how to act  accordingly.

 

On the other hand, we have the small thinkers - the hangers-on - the ones who are always rationalizing - hoarding a gazzillion details about nothing - and writing dissertation after dissertation - and making excuses for behavioral issues as if their lives depended on it - all mostly about details that simply are not even on the radar of the BIG PICTURE person. They literally talk and lead themselves around in circles about issues which really don't have any bearing on the scope of the BIG PICTURE issue at hand. Round and round and round they go, spouting their superiority and mindfulness - not realizing that they are only talking themselves in circles. Re-iterating time after time "But you don't understand - I WAS THERE, you could not POSSIBLY know anything about any of this or UNDERSTAND any of this in the way that I do, I WAS THERE, I LIVED IT!"

 

Well, much like clinical insanity - in it's purest form - they keep spouting the same details and mantras over and over and over and somehow - expect a different result.

 

Talk yourself in circles, we know it is all tongue in cheek, at least we hope so. But still we worry about you. This obsession you have is not normal.  GET OVER IT!

 

Go outside, get some sunshine and fresh air. Get away from the computer and maybe stay away. You will thank yourself for it. I know we will.

 

 

ColtsHappy

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You like to test your strength, excellent . Trust me, I will answer everything you want. Just got back from business trip but will dispatch you like the other pretenders. I've already answered this in many other posts, but I will put together another vigorous defense

 

 

I've been a Colt fan for 54 years . If they moved from Indy to Billings MO , it would make zero difference to me. I've read the shoe thread and while I admit that B Irsay may have been the devil as his mother suspected , Baltimore did not do enough to keep the team. You have been dominated and I suggest you move on.

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