Questions Regarding the Holmes Situation

[Moopsiepuffs]

If Khaled Holmes is the right guy for the job, why was he stuck behind the worst starting center in the league last season? Pagano cannot have much faith in him if he picked Satele despite his consistent sub-par performances.

 

Holmes - with a handful of snaps to his name - is going to be the starting center for a team with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations? Why didn't Grigson push harder for an Alex Mack, Brian de la Puente or even a Jonathan Goodwin?

[PrincetonTiger]

2013 was a red shirt season(recovering from an injury)

[CR91]

Grigs has said if he could, he'd prefer not to have to play rookie olineman. Lets just give Holmes a chance and see what happens

[Moopsiepuffs]

2013 was a red shirt season(recovering from an injury)

 

He played in Week 15 and given how bad Satele is, surely he would have been the better option for the Colts' playoff run?

[Moopsiepuffs]

Grigs has said if he could, he'd prefer not to have to play rookie olineman. Lets just give Holmes a chance and see what happens

 

That's a dangerous game to play, particularly when you look at the free agent centers who were available this year. Also, given the Colts schedule, they have a legitimate chance for a very deep playoff run and gambling on someone like Holmes in such a crucial position seems like too much of a risk.

[TKnight24]

We did the same thing with Holmes that we did with Josh Chapman, relax people.

Ankle injury i believe it was for Holmes, should be healthier & stronger this season. The future of the Indianapolis Colts starts this season for Khaled Holmes

[Smonroe]

Grigs has said if he could, he'd prefer not to have to play rookie olineman. Lets just give Holmes a chance and see what happens

 

I suspect we'll pick up a veteran C before camp.  Goodwin may be too old for anything but a one year contract, but he'd fit the bill as a tutor and experienced backup.

[Moopsiepuffs]

I suspect we'll pick up a veteran C before camp.  Goodwin may be too old for anything but a one year contract, but he'd fit the bill as a tutor and experienced backup.

 

I hope this happens. 

 

Relying on Holmes and a rookie from the draft would be a concern. I don't think they will get someone of Goodwin's caliber at this stage, but they need to get somebody.

[Moopsiepuffs]

We did the same thing with Holmes that we did with Josh Chapman, relax people.

Ankle injury i believe it was for Holmes, should be healthier & stronger this season. The future of the Indianapolis Colts starts this season for Khaled Holmes

Do you think Holmes has the ability to be the Colts' "future" at center? If so, what gives you that impression?

[Nobody]

I'm going to trust that he needed time to recover from the injury and that he has gotten stronger, that was his issue in college. We don't need Satele v2, so I'm glad we let him bulk up. If that's what we did at least.

[HtownColt]

Lots of teams don't play centers right away if a veteran is already in place.

EDS, Brian De La Puente were cut their first years, Chris Myers didn't play his first year, Ryan Kalil played 3 games his rookie year, the list goes on and on. Coaches just don't like to play rookie centers unless they absolutely have to.

[TKnight24]

Lots of teams don't play centers right away if a veteran is already in place.

EDS, Brian De La Puente were cut their first years, Chris Myers didn't play his first year, Ryan Kalil played 3 games his rookie year, the list goes on and on. Coaches just don't like to play rookie centers unless they absolutely have to.

Cause the center is basically the 2nd QB on the field, sometimes the #1 QB depending on how sorry the actual QB is

[TKnight24]

Do you think Holmes has the ability to be the Colts' "future" at center? If so, what gives you that impression?

Yes; he has the ability to be the future. Why? Because, if not for the injured ankle he was a 1st-3rd rounder. He's an intelligent center who made Matt Barkley look better than he actually is, & he has the physical (hopefully now after a whole season to do so) to be a good center. Centers don't have to be worldbeaters, Jeff Saturday wasn't

And this is coming from a guy who doesn't trust any USC player at the NFL level

[BrentMc11]

Not sure if you guys had a chance to see this on Colts.com.  Pagano has some nice comments on Holmes.  Athletic...intelligent.  Better start than slow and stupid 

 

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Khaled-Holmes-A-Name-To-Watch-In-2014/f0d932c6-c372-47b3-bfa8-9bd275413baf

[BrentMc11]

Lots of teams don't play centers right away if a veteran is already in place.

EDS, Brian De La Puente were cut their first years, Chris Myers didn't play his first year, Ryan Kalil played 3 games his rookie year, the list goes on and on. Coaches just don't like to play rookie centers unless they absolutely have to.

Yep, and AQ Shipley was a Rimington Award winner who struggled to make a team...

[trisca01]

Most likely the reason is the oline requires great cohesion. They were probably worried about throwing a rookie in this situation halfway or 3/4 of the way through the season.

[ztboiler]

If Khaled Holmes is the right guy for the job, why was he stuck behind the worst starting center in the league last season? Pagano cannot have much faith in him if he picked Satele despite his consistent sub-par performances.

 

Holmes - with a handful of snaps to his name - is going to be the starting center for a team with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations? Why didn't Grigson push harder for an Alex Mack, Brian de la Puente or even a Jonathan Goodwin?

You will not find the answers you are seeking on this forum.....

 

You will, however, find the questions you are asking....and they are good questions.

 

There is a lot of valid speculation available, including the speculation you use as the basis for your questions.

 

That is about as far as we'll get with this topic until Holmes either satisfies the masses or he doesn't.

[PrincetonTiger]

We did the same thing with Holmes that we did with Josh Chapman, relax people.

Ankle injury i believe it was for Holmes, should be healthier & stronger this season. The future of the Indianapolis Colts starts this season for Khaled Holmes

exactly

[throwing BBZ]

He played in Week 15 and given how bad Satele is, surely he would have been the better option for the Colts' playoff run?

 

 Coaches like to go with THEIR Veterans who have given their best over unproven players. Certainly come Playoff time!

 All the Veterans on the TEAM Respect that approach. This is SIMPLE stuff.

 

 Of course i was No fan of Satele and bringing back McGlynn for a 2nd season was Inexcusable.

 They have respectfully eased out those two and Link, so they did cut bait and move forward with their plan.

 

 It is disappointing to me so few here understand who/what potential we Already have on our roster for the O-Line.

  Cross our fingers that Any young guy has the fortitude to live right, and work hard to become the best he can be, and stay Healthy. Under those circumstances, we Have better guys here NOW. And pick #90 is a real possibility to add a Good Guard prospect. Draft, develope, IS the Build.

[throwing BBZ]

I hope this happens. 

 

Relying on Holmes and a rookie from the draft would be a concern. I don't think they will get someone of Goodwin's caliber at this stage, but they need to get somebody.

 

 It is funny they ddn`t bring in ANY of the Centers you yahoos wanted. Said they didn`t like them.

 Folks they didn`t like them over what they KNOW they have in Holmes.

   Thomas Austin!! Uh Uh , i`m a Colts fan, WHO`s Austin?? Why can`t he be Developed into a good backup/future starter?? Oh, No Reason!

 Costa was here for Cheap as injury/camp fod and maybe some cheap mis-direction for the drafting of a Center/Guard they Really want. Wake up knuckleheads!   JMO of course.

[Moopsiepuffs]

 Coaches like to go with THEIR Veterans who have given their best over unproven players. Certainly come Playoff time!

 All the Veterans on the TEAM Respect that approach. This is SIMPLE stuff.

Nothing is "SIMPLE stuff" when it came to Samson Satele. 

 

I don't care if he was Pagano's man, and I certainly don't care if he was of "veteran" status. He was/is an absolutely horrible player and I think there is a genuine cause for concern when a guy like Samson Satele can keep Holmes on the bench last season, and yet Holmes is supposed to be our starter not only this year, but for several years to come.

 

I we make light of how bad Satele was for the Colts, but I do think a lot of people don't appreciate HOW bad he was.

[throwing BBZ]

Yep, and AQ Shipley was a Rimington Award winner who struggled to make a team...

 

 

Most likely the reason is the oline requires great cohesion. They were probably worried about throwing a rookie in this situation halfway or 3/4 of the way through the season.

 

 Satele was this groups 1st FA signing. Don`t you think they told him how bad they wanted him, how they needed a real Professional to help them establish the right/winning attitude they were shooting for.

 Samson played injured, gave it all, and they treated him with respect. He played beside mostly Dung for two seasons to boot.

 Per PFF, Satele gave up FEWER combined Sacks/Hits and Hurries last season than.................... AlexMack. 19 to 25.

[CR91]

That's a dangerous game to play, particularly when you look at the free agent centers who were available this year. Also, given the Colts schedule, they have a legitimate chance for a very deep playoff run and gambling on someone like Holmes in such a crucial position seems like too much of a risk.

 

LT is a crucial position. centers can be found anywhere. look at saturday or AQ shipley undrafted and got the job done

[BrentMc11]

 Satele was this groups 1st FA signing. Don`t you think they told him how bad they wanted him, how they needed a real Professional to help them establish the right/winning attitude they were shooting for.

 Samson played injured, gave it all, and they treated him with respect. He played beside mostly Dung for two seasons to boot.

 Per PFF, Satele gave up FEWER combined Sacks/Hits and Hurries last season than.................... AlexMack. 19 to 25.

I have been as hard on Satele as anyone on here, but as you say and I have said before an OL needs cohesion and teamwork.

 

A ton of the time Satele was injured or had the 'replacements' as linemen with him.  At one time Mike Tepper and Seth Olsen.

 

I am ready for Holmes to show what he can do, and we BETTER have back-up.

[throwing BBZ]

Nothing is "SIMPLE stuff" when it came to Samson Satele. 

 

I don't care if he was Pagano's man, and I certainly don't care if he was of "veteran" status. He was/is an absolutely horrible player and I think there is a genuine cause for concern when a guy like Samson Satele can keep Holmes on the bench last season, and yet Holmes is supposed to be our starter not only this year, but for several years to come.

 

I we make light of how bad Satele was for the Colts, but I do think a lot of people don't appreciate HOW bad he was.

 

Nothing is "SIMPLE stuff" when it came to Samson Satele. 

 

I don't care if he was Pagano's man, and I certainly don't care if he was of "veteran" status. He was/is an absolutely horrible player and I think there is a genuine cause for concern when a guy like Samson Satele can keep Holmes on the bench last season, and yet Holmes is supposed to be our starter not only this year, but for several years to come.

 

I we make light of how bad Satele was for the Colts, but I do think a lot of people don't appreciate HOW bad he was.

 

Come on Man! You don`t even understand that he DIDN`T keep Holmes on the bench. McGlynn was the backup VETERAN CENTER and played well enough when Satele was out for injury that Most followers here Prefered McGlynn to be the starter at center.

 But PAGANO gets paid to Lead his Roster and make those decisions and he supported HIS VETERAN for whatever Reason he chose. I predict Pagano & Griggs have a good Plan and that Holmes will rub the doubters nose in it. :yay:   

 Now I know Saturday wasn`t a Pro-Bowler in year one so.... If Holmes could just Anchor against the BIGS like Jeff. lol

[rock8591]

I'm high on Holmes as well. Good measurables (6'3'' 319 lbs, 35'' arms), highly intelligent (completed his Masters at USC).

 

The only thing I'm worried about is cohesion with the guards.

[throwing BBZ]

I have been as hard on Satele as anyone on here, but as you say and I have said before an OL needs cohesion and teamwork.

 

A ton of the time Satele was injured or had the 'replacements' as linemen with him.  At one time Mike Tepper and Seth Olsen.

 

I am ready for Holmes to show what he can do, and we BETTER have back-up.

 

 He played in year one with a leg injury as i recall, WHY??? Professionals are expected to do that.

 That was The Sorriest bunch of center play that any of us surely ever witnessed. They pushed him back and threw him around like a rag doll. OMG! ;)  Run Andrew Run! Not McGlynn`s way either!

 he is gone, the end

 

 Backup? If all these Experienced, Former UDFA centers that were Available, that Their owns Teams didn`t want back and our GM didn`t want were Good Enough for so many here, then there is no reason Austin couldn`t be a good center, a spot Starter just like Shipley and Maybe better. Donald Thomas may get a late start on the season but he had played Center and should/could be 2nd or 3rd on the center depth chart. Of course they will want another decent hopeful for camp, injuries and all.

 

[throwing BBZ]

I'm high on Holmes as well. Good measurables (6'3'' 319 lbs, 35'' arms), highly intelligent (completed his Masters at USC).

 

The only thing I'm worried about is cohesion with the guards.

 

 Thornton couldn`t see a stunt last season to save him/Andrew. ;) 

 Lets just hope we have guards that GO Forward rather than backurds in the run game. That will fix some things!

 Wait and see. Holmes will be VG as a Center. And a better Guard?? He can move!

[BrentMc11]

 He played in year one with a leg injury as i recall, WHY??? Professionals are expected to do that.

 That was The Sorriest bunch of center play that any of us surely ever witnessed. They pushed him back and threw him around like a rag doll. OMG! ;)  Run Andrew Run! Not McGlynn`s way either!

 he is gone, the end

 

 Backup? If all these Experienced, Former UDFA centers that were Available, that Their owns Teams didn`t want back and our GM didn`t want were Good Enough for so many here, then there is no reason Austin couldn`t be a good center, a spot Starter just like Shipley and Maybe better. Donald Thomas may get a late start on the season but he had played Center and should/could be 2nd or 3rd on the center depth chart. Of course they will want another decent hopeful for camp, injuries and all.

 

Austin looked good (decent) in last year's Buffalo Bills preseason game that I attended.  He is one of those guys who can play center and guard.  He is listed as a guard on his Wicki page ....center on our roster.

 

I am anxious to see Thornton on the right side.  Here's to Thomas getting healthy soon.

[NewColtsFan]

A combination of injuries and inexperience.

[Smonroe]

Austin looked good (decent) in last year's Buffalo Bills preseason game that I attended.  He is one of those guys who can play center and guard.  He is listed as a guard on his Wicki page ....center on our roster.

 

I am anxious to see Thornton on the right side.  Here's to Thomas getting healthy soon.

 

We're hoping for health (Thomas) and more experience (ThorNton) to solidify the guard spots.  If that happens, it puts a lot less onus on the ability of the C. 

 

We were so bad with the interior line last year because when you have three below average players all next to each other, there's basically no compensating for weaknesses.

 

I don't claim to be an expert (and I was for going all out for O linemen) but if you listen to the analysts, they all say you shouldn't overpay for interior linemen. 

[Flash7]

If Khaled Holmes is the right guy for the job, why was he stuck behind the worst starting center in the league last season? Pagano cannot have much faith in him if he picked Satele despite his consistent sub-par performances.

Holmes - with a handful of snaps to his name - is going to be the starting center for a team with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations? Why didn't Grigson push harder for an Alex Mack, Brian de la Puente or even a Jonathan Goodwin?

Pagano has answered this in a press conference. He said that Holmes wasn't ready at the beginning of the year. He was working through an injury. Satele was the veteran that had the most work with the O-line group.

When Holmes was finally ready, the Colts were doing well and Pagano didn't want to ruin the chemistry and take a chance of losing any cohesion. He fully understood that it was a tough decision. You can't argue against it as we made it into the second round of the playoffs. Luck's INTs came from bad decisions or being unlucky, rather than pressure from Satele's man.

When Holmes was healthy, he played guard and did well. I think he'll be fine at center next season and onward.

[NewColtsFan]

Here's a little something from Grigson about Holmes and why he didn't play much last year.    The quote is a month old, from the owners meetings in Florida...   but it didn't get any notice here back then....

 

This is from a story on ESPN.com

 

 

Holmes was behind everybody after missing a significant amount of training camp last year with an ankle injury.

"This league, unfortunately, when a guy gets hurt in training camp he gets shelved," Colts general manager Ryan Grigson said last month at the NFL owners meetings. "There was a lot of optimism about him in minicamp, his level of intelligence. He's unique, he's 318 pounds. He's got guard versatility, even though I think he's a center, but he's got good arm length. At center, you have to have that. ... The guy knows how to play football."

[ProblChld32]

I think everyone underestimates how difficult the Center position is to play. 

[BrentMc11]

We're hoping for health (Thomas) and more experience (ThorNton) to solidify the guard spots.  If that happens, it puts a lot less onus on the ability of the C. 

 

We were so bad with the interior line last year because when you have three below average players all next to each other, there's basically no compensating for weaknesses.

 

I don't claim to be an expert (and I was for going all out for O linemen) but if you listen to the analysts, they all say you shouldn't overpay for interior linemen. 

I tried to like.  

 

Contrary to public opinion, almost all teams cry every year about 'some' problem on their OL.  Why?  Because it is the toughest position in football.  With injuries continuing to mount league-wide, we see many teams struggling to find quality back-ups. (And STARTERS)

[BOTT]

I think everyone underestimates how difficult the Center position is to play.

Meh, I have heard more than one lineman say it's the easiest position on the line.

[akcolt]

Meh, I have heard more than one lineman say it's the easiest position on the line.

I think it depends on how you look at it once you get assignment calls down and adjust to the speed of the game I would agree and I think that the amount of undrafted C's starting in the NFL and the lack of money paid to most C's would support that. You have G's protecting you and you are certainly not dealing with the athlete's T's are.

 

I think it is difficult for a rookie to come in and play unless he is coming into a line that has worked together for a minute.  O Line is about a cohesive group more than any other group on the team. We did not have anything close to that.  

 

Coaches seem to have confidence in Holmes to me it appears it is his job they are just looking for a solid back up to push him a little. Someone who is versatile and can cover as a G as well but not a real threat to win the job. I could be wrong but it looks like Holmes job to me.  

[theanarchist]

I hope this happens. 

 

Relying on Holmes and a rookie from the draft would be a concern. I don't think they will get someone of Goodwin's caliber at this stage, but they need to get somebody.

Why? There are several centers in recent history that have come in and started right away and done a real good job. It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

[ProblChld32]

Meh, I have heard more than one lineman say it's the easiest position on the line.

 

Not so much you need to be able to read the defensive line to make adjustments and calls. the center dictates the blocking in most schemes.

[BOTT]

Not so much you need to be able to read the defensive line to make adjustments and calls. the center dictates the blocking in most schemes.

I understand that, but it's not rocket science.