Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Devaluation of the Running Back [Merge]


Dustin

Recommended Posts

you can use our season as proof. Almost every single game we played from weeks ( 10-14 (when we really sucked)) we started off trying to smash the opponent in the mouth with our "running game" and fell behind. Then later in the game, once we reverted to passing on nearly every play, we either managed to comeback or not look as bad as the game really was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you can use our season as proof. Almost every single game we played from weeks ( 10-14 (when we really sucked)) we started off trying to smash the opponent in the mouth with our "running game" and fell behind. Then later in the game, once we reverted to passing on nearly every play, we either managed to comeback or not look as bad as the game really was.

I wouldn't blame it on the running game.....the team just played like turd. They came out passing against the Rams and still got hammered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one likes running the ball anymore cause it's all about the quarterback quarterback quarterback.

 

The running game still matters though, you're not going to win a Super Bowl without it being effective.

 

Sad age we live in cause we're never going to see another Emmit or Barry or Earl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think to myself the running game does not matter I think back to last year when we went to SF early in the year and Bradshaw was carving the SF D like he was on a mission. I hope he stays healthier this year for us.

 

Then when we played the Rams we had like.......7 or so freaking yards at one point in the game and Luck was the leading rusher.

 

In the SB against the Saints I STILL think we went away from the run at some point when Addai was literally killing it.

 

When we beat the Bears in the SB sure it helped that Rex Grossman was the opposing QB, but Addai/Rhodes ran all over that Bears D too. The running game was the underrated hero of our SB winning run. Everyone brags about the D coming together finally with Bob Sanders back (and it's a good point) but who can forget Rhodes running out the clock in Baltimore in the divisional round when the passing game was not having the best game to begin with vs. the #1 ranked defense in the league? I think we had the most yards vs. the Ravens that game vs. any team who had played them all year. And that was still when the Ravens D was like......good and Sexy Rexy was there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can run effectively Pep just needs to understand that he would benefit from using the passing game to set up the running game instead of pounding the ball into the weakest part of our O Line until we are down 2 TD's then calling our RB a bust.

 

Don't agree with the trade but don't think Trent had much of a chance last year. It was like they thought getting him would some how make up for defensive lineman in the backfield on 1st and 2nd down. I would expect you see more out of Trent next year. I for one thought Pep would look good as a Commodore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think to myself the running game does not matter I think back to last year when we went to SF early in the year and Bradshaw was carving the SF D like he was on a mission. I hope he stays healthier this year for us.

 

Then when we played the Rams we had like.......7 or so freaking yards at one point in the game and Luck was the leading rusher.

 

In the SB against the Saints I STILL think we went away from the run at some point when Addai was literally killing it.

 

When we beat the Bears in the SB sure it helped that Rex Grossman was the opposing QB, but Addai/Rhodes ran all over that Bears D too. The running game was the underrated hero of our SB winning run. Everyone brags about the D coming together finally with Bob Sanders back (and it's a good point) but who can forget Rhodes running out the clock in Baltimore in the divisional round when the passing game was not having the best game to begin with vs. the #1 ranked defense in the league? I think we had the most yards vs. the Ravens that game vs. any team who had played them all year. And that was still when the Ravens D was like......good and Sexy Rexy was there.

Super Bowl went down hill when Baskett couldn't handle an onside kick that came straight to him. I think to this day he was in on that play. He is a WR the ball came right to him c'mon Hank what'd you have on the game? Then Manning ends it with one of his 4th quarter pick 6's. We should have won that game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Bowl went down hill when Baskett couldn't handle an onside kick that came straight to him. I think to this day he was in on that play. He is a WR the ball came right to him c'mon Hank what'd you have on the game? Then Manning ends it with one of his 4th quarter pick 6's. We should have won that game.

 

I like a good conspiracy once in a while but "Baskett was in on that play"?. Naw.........

 

Saints were a more balanced and more spirited team then us too all year IMO. I wish we won but we did too much stupid stuff and one IMO was not running it enough and my mind can't be changed on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think to myself the running game does not matter I think back to last year when we went to SF early in the year and Bradshaw was carving the SF D like he was on a mission. I hope he stays healthier this year for us.

 

Then when we played the Rams we had like.......7 or so freaking yards at one point in the game and Luck was the leading rusher.

 

In the SB against the Saints I STILL think we went away from the run at some point when Addai was literally killing it.

 

When we beat the Bears in the SB sure it helped that Rex Grossman was the opposing QB, but Addai/Rhodes ran all over that Bears D too. The running game was the underrated hero of our SB winning run. Everyone brags about the D coming together finally with Bob Sanders back (and it's a good point) but who can forget Rhodes running out the clock in Baltimore in the divisional round when the passing game was not having the best game to begin with vs. the #1 ranked defense in the league? I think we had the most yards vs. the Ravens that game vs. any team who had played them all year. And that was still when the Ravens D was like......good and Sexy Rexy was there.

You bring up the Colts super bowl win. I believe that Addai  and Rhodes were the true MVPs of that super bowl. Manning really didn't have a stellar game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like a good conspiracy once in a while but "Baskett was in on that play"?. Naw.........

 

Saints were a more balanced and more spirited team then us too all year IMO. I wish we won but we did too much stupid stuff and one IMO was not running it enough and my mind can't be changed on that.

Was it before or after the reality series?? I know but they kick it to a WR wasn't really a difficult ball to handle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was it before or after the reality series?? I know but they kick it to a WR wasn't really a difficult ball to handle

 

Reality series?

 

Oh I agree, dumb mistake on the part of a WR especially. Stupid. But, at the same time stupid crap can happen too in football. Look at the first snap to Manning in the recent SB against the Seahawks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I agree about being bummed about giving up a first for Richardson, I think we can all agree if he were coming out now, with the same stats he put up at Alabama and winning the national championship, I believe he may not go in the first round, but he would go very early 2nd round. The difference is the contract commitment. Still, giving up a #26 for someone who now would probably go in the 30's is not horrible. We are just reacting negatively because we have seen some of the results. Next year could be totally different with the line better, and Richardson having a full offseason to absorb the playbook. Plus there are a couple of things the article does not mention.

 

A good running back going in the late first round is not going to be guaranteed a bunch of money coming out, couple million a year, so it is still a bargain late in the first round. Every good team who wins a Super Bowl lately has a good running game. Also, Richardson can catch the ball out of the backfield. The most important thing I think that was missed though which applies to Richardson, since he came out of a pro set in Alabama, he can block on passing downs. This is essential for our offense. If Richardson has a good year and can prove reliable for the next 3 years, it won't have been a terrible trade, but we should still have given up no more than a second. Unfortunately though, Pagano wants a stud running back.

 

Also, remember how many games during the Peyton years we lost because we could not put a game away since we had no running game. We need one for the four minute offense. Just my thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that Irsay really pressured Grigs to make the deal.

 

Trent will be much better this year. He would have been a first round pick in any draft. He was 3rd overall and the Browns gave up a lot of picks to get up there and get him. He had a descent rookie year facing 9 in the box all year and playing through broken ribs broke some of Jim Browns rookie records had 12 td's.  He is a true 3 down back. He was better in passing game then running game for us last year except on play action D would bite. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add to the story is the way teams use RBs now. It makes more sense to have 2 or 3 RBs at a lower cap hit than 1 high dollar player. Pay a top wage to one RB and any injury he can be out. Plus having a top RB does not automatically give the advantage to win a super bowl. Having 2 or 3 decent RBs keeps them fresher and more healthy at the seasons end. We lost 2 starting RBs last season and we all seen what the results of that were. It's hard for any RB to have great numbers when they can't get out of the backfield without getting hit or tackled. The key is better run blocking and that holds true to the larger majority of RBs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that Irsay really pressured Grigs to make the deal.

 

Trent will be much better this year. He would have been a first round pick in any draft. He was 3rd overall and the Browns gave up a lot of picks to get up there and get him. He had a descent rookie year facing 9 in the box all year and playing through broken ribs broke some of Jim Browns rookie records had 12 td's.  He is a true 3 down back. He was better in passing game then running game for us last year except on play action D would bite. .

You didn't read that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add to the story is the way teams use RBs now. It makes more sense to have 2 or 3 RBs at a lower cap hit than 1 high dollar player. Pay a top wage to one RB and any injury he can be out. Plus having a top RB does not automatically give the advantage to win a super bowl. Having 2 or 3 decent RBs keeps them fresher and more healthy at the seasons end. We lost 2 starting RBs last season and we all seen what the results of that were. It's hard for any RB to have great numbers when they can't get out of the backfield without getting hit or tackled. The key is better run blocking and that holds true to the larger majority of RBs.

That has been the Pats approach for awhile now. They several backs that all can do different things. Last year Ridley was the slasher back, Blount brought the brawn and the Vareen was the scat back who caught balls out of the backfield. It was easily their most productive unit on the team.

 

I agree about paying just one guy as if he goes down then you are in trouble. And of course the risk of injury is big too with one guy carrying the ball every play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that Irsay really pressured Grigs to make the deal.

 

Trent will be much better this year. He would have been a first round pick in any draft. He was 3rd overall and the Browns gave up a lot of picks to get up there and get him. He had a descent rookie year facing 9 in the box all year and playing through broken ribs broke some of Jim Browns rookie records had 12 td's.  He is a true 3 down back. He was better in passing game then running game for us last year except on play action D would bite. .

To put TRs name in the same sentence as Jim Brown is just plain crazy. The only way he will become a better RB is quit dancing and trying to fake the defense out. Just hit the hole and hold onto the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To put TRs name in the same sentence as Jim Brown is just plain crazy. The only way he will become a better RB is quit dancing and trying to fake the defense out. Just hit the hole and hold onto the ball.

And of course....have a semblance  of a hole to run through.  That never hurts  :jump:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To put TRs name in the same sentence as Jim Brown is just plain crazy. The only way he will become a better RB is quit dancing and trying to fake the defense out. Just hit the hole and hold onto the ball.

It may be crazy but it is a fact Trent broke some of Jim Brown's rookie records granted he had more games to do so and all that but it is still a fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't read that

I promise I read it somewhere not sure the source.It is really difficult and depressing to search anything with Irsay's name in it is all about his current situation. As far as Trent breaking Brown's records rushing and Td's that is just a fact.

 

I will still find it just thought it would be easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I promise I read it somewhere not sure the source.It is really difficult and depressing to search anything with Irsay's name in it is all about his current situation. As far as Trent breaking Brown's records rushing and Td's that is just a fact.

I will still find it just thought it would be easier.

You read it on rotoworld and it was just nonsense speculation by the rotoworld writer guy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

you can use our season as proof. Almost every single game we played from weeks ( 10-14 (when we really sucked)) we started off trying to smash the opponent in the mouth with our "running game" and fell behind. Then later in the game, once we reverted to passing on nearly every play, we either managed to comeback or not look as bad as the game really was.

 

 

It probably had more to do with the fact that we tried to run behind the worst guard/center tandem in the league. I don't have a problem with being a running team. I have a problem with trying to force being a running team when we don't have the players to be one yet. Either get the players or play to whats going to win us the most games. Stubbornness is a sure-fire way to lose your job in the NFL.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You read it on rotoworld and it was just nonsense speculation by the rotoworld writer guy.

You saw it too? I knew I read it and we all know that everything you read isn't gospel but I wouldn't make stuff up. Should help me find the link. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It probably had more to do with the fact that we tried to run behind the worst guard/center tandem in the league. I don't have a problem with being a running team. I have a problem with trying to force being a running team when we don't have the players to be one yet. Either get the players or play to whats going to win us the most games. Stubbornness is a sure-fire way to lose your job in the NFL.  

By all means if we can run the ball effectively we should do so, I agree. But that stubbornness is exactly what we saw out of Pep and the others last year. It's never good to be one dimensional, but if you're gonna be one dimensional regardless of if you try to run the ball or not, you might as well just sling the ball around 40 to 50 times a game until you find a decent run game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By all means if we can run the ball effectively we should do so, I agree. But that stubbornness is exactly what we saw out of Pep and the others last year. It's never good to be one dimensional, but if you're gonna be one dimensional regardless of if you try to run the ball or not, you might as well just sling the ball around 40 to 50 times a game until you find a decent run game.

I think it's clear from recent comments that the stubbornness is coming from Pagano. Pep adapted and changed the offense once he saw we couldn't power run. I think he was just following orders. His play calling was not consistent and he certainly isn't above reproach, but Pagano is the one with the vision of being run heavy, come hell or high water

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I promise you I did I will find it post a link today. Why would I say that out of the blue?

Yeah, I could have phrased that better. I meant you were either mistaken, or the article was nonsense. I didn't mean to imply you made it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will still find the link for you so you can read it yourself. I'd rather do that type of research at work not waste my free time. I thought it would be an easy find forgot about all the non football related articles out there right now.

 

I am not sure why you would have a hard time believing it Irsay likes those big front page deals he almost blew up his twitter account when it happened and he signs the checks. Besides it being from rotoworld?

 

Whether the article is nonsense or not it clearly say's Grigs was being pressured by Irsay to make the deal. It is all water under the bridge now.

 

I believe Trent will come out with a chip on his shoulder ready to roll this year improved O-Line hopefully improved play calling. I also read that one a the few negatives on Trent was intelligence coming out maybe he just needed an off season to get the system down to where he could just play football. He was traded out of the blue had to hurt his feelings had his family in Cleveland etc. I still have high hopes for Trent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will still find the link for you so you can read it yourself. I'd rather do that type of research at work not waste my free time. I thought it would be an easy find forgot about all the non football related articles out there right now.

I am not sure why you would have a hard time believing it Irsay likes those big front page deals he almost blew up his twitter account when it happened and he signs the checks. Besides it being from rotoworld?

Whether the article is nonsense or not it clearly say's Grigs was being pressured by Irsay to make the deal. It is all water under the bridge now.

I believe Trent will come out with a chip on his shoulder ready to roll this year improved O-Line hopefully improved play calling. I also read that one a the few negatives on Trent was intelligence coming out maybe he just needed an off season to get the system down to where he could just play football. He was traded out of the blue had to hurt his feelings had his family in Cleveland etc. I still have high hopes for Trent.

I really have a hard time believing Grigs was pressured into it considering he said he would take TRich #1 overall if Luck and RG3 weren't in the draft. And he said this before the 2012 draft.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be part a move away from the running game but I think it's more complicated then that.

 

I think there is just more parity between running backs.  

 

 

Think of it this way.  Marshawn Lynch for example was a 1st round pick that was successful..  He has a career average of 4.2 Yards per carry.

 

Vick Ballard was a 5th round pick who's career average is 3.9 yards per carry.

 

So lets say you give Vick Ballard the same number of carries as Lynch had in 2013.  (301 carries)

 

Lynch gets the 1257 yards that he got in 2013.

 

Vick Ballard gets 1174 yards.  

 

Note there is some rounding done with the above.

 

So who got more value??  Lynch is a 1st round pick.  Ballard a 5th round pick.

 

In fact lets equalize it all now.  300 carries for everyone based on their career average

 

AP: 1500 yards

Lynch: 1260 yards

Ballard 1170 yards

Bradshaw: 1380 yards

Doug Martin: 1290 yards

Alfred Morris: 1410 yards

Chris Johnson: 1380 yards

Steven Jackson: 1260 yards

Reggie Bush: 1290 yards

Lesean McCoy: 1440 yards

 

This also explains why most teams have moved to RB by committee instead of just 1 star RB being their feature back.  Which is why the number of 1000 yard rushers is lower.  Each individual RB is getting less carries

 

The extra production you get from having a "star" just doesn't warrant the investment of a 1st round draft pick and the high pay.

 

Injury concerns aside take a look at Chris Johnson, Morris, Bradshaw . . . between 90 and 120 yards on the season less then Adrian Peterson.  Who is right now the gold standard on RB's and also making 14 million APY.  

 

This IMO is why RB's arn't worth the investment of a first round pick.  They may have huge 2000 yard seasons once but that's one good season they had that is usually over and above their usual production.  CJ2K and AP have never came close to the APY of their 2000 yard seasons.  For both of them it was just 1 good fluke of a season. 

 

In fact it seems like the most valuable asset an RB has is the ability to stay on the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Defense & a running game wins championships.

Pass happy offenses win fantasy leagues & ESPN highlights.

RBs aren't going anywhere. Teams will adopt the committee formula Carolina developed several years back, and the workhorse backs may disappear, but running backs will still be very much important going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Defense & a running game wins championships.

Pass happy offenses win fantasy leagues & ESPN highlights.

RBs aren't going anywhere. Teams will adopt the committee formula Carolina developed several years back, and the workhorse backs may disappear, but running backs will still be very much important going forward.

 

 

The running game is still very important. The runningback... isn't. You can pretty much turn anyone into a star if you have your starting 5 linemen playing at a high level. The key to winning in football was, is, and always will be about winning in the trenches. If you don't have the hogs on either side of the ball, you will eventually be exposed by a team that has them on at least one side

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NFL.com has an article intially about Chris Johnson and where he might go, but the article is really a much larger piece about the devaluation of the running back. Someone already posted a few things from this article, but there was one thing which really caught my eye.

 

We all here complain about our offensive line, and for good reason. They have trouble pass blocking and run blocking. Now we all know Pagano and Pep want to run the ball. The interesting thing in the article is the feeling is do to the college offenses, especially the spread, finding lineman who can pass protect is not a problem. The problem is almost no one comes into the league able to run block. It has been deemphasized so much due to the spread and how prevalent the pass is, it has been a lost art. Most colleges instead of running like they use to rely on quick bubble screens and very short passes to substitute for a lot of the running plays we used to see. So the line coach is invaluable to today's teams since they have to be a teacher. I wish we would have signed Mike Munchak to be our offensive line coach. Steelers plucked him, and that was a good pick up. Richardson was definitely bad last year, but how many times did he get the ball and players were in our backfield ready to swarm?

 

Now we obviously still need to work on our pass protection, but I will say if you look at our line, we had a lot of new guys, and very young. So I think they can learn and get better. It is a process for young players. The pass protection, I just hope it gets much better.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Panthers

49ers

Seahawks

Bengals

Chargers

All ran the ball perfectly fine with regular running plays we're used to seeing.

No excuses for the way our offensive line plays. It has to get better or these dreams you all have of Andrew Luck winning multiple Super Bowls will be just those....... dreams

:rantoff:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...