Scouts rip the DL Draft Class....

[NewColtsFan]

NOTE:  If a moderator would like, please change my title of my thread...   eliminate "GM" and just go with  "Scouts"

 

So...  over on NFL.com there's a story all about the players in this DL draft class.

 

The writer has a Scouting Director from the NFC and one from the AFC and they're not impressed with the top talent who are defensive tackles and ends.    One called it the worst class of DL's he's seen in a long time.

 

Interesting read......

 

Enjoy.....    uhhhh,  I think....

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000341123/article/scouting-director-2014-dl-class-worst-ive-seen-in-a-long-time

 

By the way,   I do not view this as good news for the Colts.....

[chad72]

NOTE:  If a moderator would like, please change my title of my thread...   eliminate "GM" and just go with  "Scouts"

 

So...  over on NFL.com there's a story all about the players in this DL draft class.

 

The writer has a Scouting Director from the NFC and one from the AFC and they're not impressed with the top talent who are defensive tackles and ends.    One called it the worst class of DL's he's seen in a long time.

 

Interesting read......

 

Enjoy.....    uhhhh,  I think....

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000341123/article/scouting-director-2014-dl-class-worst-ive-seen-in-a-long-time

 

By the way,   I do not view this as good news for the Colts.....

 

Why not? It just means that we can focus on other positions more in rounds 2 and 3 and worry about the DL starting with the later rounds when you can find value.

 

To me, as much as some folks here want us to ignore OL, OL depth is pretty good in this draft, IMO. I think that is where we will find good value more than anything else when the others are reaching on the secondary.

[bestQBever]

after our acquisitions I would either take a CB or OG with our first pick. DL can come later.

[Superman]

Anyone who watches Aaron Donald play and doesn't fall in love has a questionable eye for talent.

I agree with some of the other criticisms, but I wouldn't be as harsh.

[swankdizzle]

I don't think this hurts the Colts.  At pick 59, among the players that could help us are Lamarcus Joyner CB, Jeremiah Attaochu OLB.

Gabe Jackson G, Terrence Brooks FS.  Keith McGill CB, possibly, although he is not strong against the run.  None of these are DL.

[NewColtsFan]

Anyone who watches Aaron Donald play and doesn't fall in love has a questionable eye for talent.

I agree with some of the other criticisms, but I wouldn't be as harsh.

 

My hunch is that most every scout loves what they see....

 

But they're frightened out of their minds over the fact that's he's sub-290.   And they don't think that projects well to the next level.    Are their any high level sub-290 DT's who play the 4-3?     I don't think so.    That kind of thing makes scouts bite their nails.    There's no one to point to as being successful for that profile.

 

Scouts are a funny bunch.

 

But the kid has had an incredible senior year/all-star game/combine/pro day run of it all.    Wow!   He's been a shooting star!

 

Hope he kicks *** at the next level!

[Gavin]

My hunch is that most every scout loves what they see....

 

But they're frightened out of their minds over the fact that's he's sub-290.   And they don't think that projects well to the next level.    Are their any high level sub-290 DT's who play the 4-3?     I don't think so.    That kind of thing makes scouts bite their nails.    There's no one to point to as being successful for that profile.

 

Scouts are a funny bunch.

 

But the kid has had an incredible senior year/all-star game/combine/pro day run of it all.    Wow!   He's been a shooting star!

 

Hope he kicks *** at the next level!

I think his size is being overblown, Pounds are alot easier to put on then take off, Geno Atkins was listed at 6'1" 293 lbs at the Combine and both did the same amount of bench press reps and Donald has slightly longer arms then Geno.....Also an 8 pound weight differential........Donald will be fine.....God help the AFC if the Bengals take him along side Geno Atkins!  Though I dont see him getting past the Bears at 14 and could go as high as 12 to the Giants who need some interior pass rushers

[akcolt]

I had my heart set on Lamarcus Joyner but it Tuitt, NIx, Hageman, or Dee Ford fall to 59 I would be sprinting to the podium.

 

Especially Nix or Hageman those guys are beast. It is not easy to find a NG . Ford could be what we need for the pass rush and Tuitt made just about every big play the Irish needed in his career. I would jump at any of those guys at 59 find it really hard to believe any would still be there.

 

I will say the Kony Early and Aron Donald are gone for sure in the first. Really all these guys are most likely gone maybe a couple go early day 2 but come one.

 

I will stick to: Lamarcus Joyner CB/S FSU  2nd round, 3rd round Trai Turner OG LSU, 5th round Antoine Exum CB Virgina Tech, 6th round Deandre Coleman DT Cal,  7th Tyler Starr OLB South Dakota

 

I would love to get that draft Turner would need to slip no telling where Exum goes and NE could steal Starr.

[Dustin]

I think his size is being overblown, Pounds are alot easier to put on then take off, Geno Atkins was listed at 6'1" 293 lbs at the Combine and both did the same amount of bench press reps and Donald has slightly longer arms then Geno.....Also an 8 pound weight differential........Donald will be fine.....God help the AFC if the Bengals take him along side Geno Atkins!  Though I dont see him getting past the Bears at 14 and could go as high as 12 to the Giants who need some interior pass rushers

 

Donald is going to absolutely get washed away by blocker at the next level at 290 lbs. His first 2 years he should only be used in situational pass rushing fronts until he can add more strength and learn not to aim for gaps every single play. Until then he'd be a liability in the run game. 

 

Also, Atkins play at 305 and had the frame to add more weight. Donald doesn't have that frame and will likely hover around 290 for the rest of his career. And Geno is much stronger. 

[Gavin]

Donald is going to absolutely get washed away by blocker at the next level at 290 lbs. His first 2 years he should only be used in situational pass rushing fronts until he can add more strength and learn not to aim for gaps every single play. Until then he'd be a liability in the run game. 

 

Also, Atkins play at 305 and had the frame to add more weight. Donald doesn't have that frame and will likely hover around 290 for the rest of his career. And Geno is much stronger. 

 I'd expect Atkins to be stronger now since he has been in the NFL.......He is still listed as 6'1 303lbs on the Bengals site, He was listed at 35 bench press reps at the Combine when he came out at 293lbs......Again...only an 8lbs difference between Geno at Donald coming out and Donald is just as explosive as Atkins, I think that your right that he could struggle at first coming out...Atkins did as well...But I think he will struggle because he has to learn better technique not because he dont have the frame t add more weight.....I think he does...Also Geno also has slightly shorter arms then Donald

[Dustin]

I'd expect Atkins to be stronger now since he has been in the NFL.......He is still listed as 6'1 303lbs on the Bengals site, He was listed at 35 bench press reps at the Combine when he came out at 293lbs......Again...only an 8lbs difference between Geno at Donald coming out and Donald is just as explosive as Atkins, I think that your right that he could struggle at first coming out...Atkins did as well...But I think he will struggle because he has to learn better technique not because he dont have the frame t add more weight.....I think he does...Also Geno also has slightly shorter arms then Donald

Bench reps are for stamina, not a measure of strength. Donald's strength is nowhere as good as Watkins was/is.

What Geno weighed at the combine doesn't concern me. He's played at 305 his entire NFL career. Donald's frame is already maxed out. There's no "good weight" he could add anywhere. Making him bulk up to over 300 will likely damper his explosivness.

[Gavin]

Bench reps are for stamina, not a measure of strength. Donald's strength is nowhere as good as Watkins was/is.

What Geno weighed at the combine doesn't concern me. He's played at 305 his entire NFL career. Donald's frame is already maxed out. There's no "good weight" he could add anywhere. Making him bulk up to over 300 will likely damper his explosivness.

Bench reps measure strength and stamina  http://www.nfl.com/combine/workouts

 

I do think he could stand to tone up around the middle a bit

[Dustin]

Bench reps measure strength and stamina http://www.nfl.com/combine/workouts

I do think he could stand to tone up around the middle a bit

I don't know why you linked me to that site I know what a bench press is lol.

[Gavin]

I don't know why you linked me to that site I know what a bench press is lol.

Apparently you didn't because you said that they dont measure strength...when in fact thats one of the things they measure

[Dustin]

Apparently you didn't because you said that they dont measure strength...when in fact thats one of the things they measure

It's a measure of endurance more than strength. There's some elements of measuring strength to it, but not enough to "he did the same amount of bench reps so he,s just as strong"

If Donald and Atkins went to their max weight i think Akins would win in a landslide.

.

[Gavin]

It's a measure of endurance more than strength. There's some elements of measuring strength to it, but not enough to "he did the same amount of bench reps so he,s just as strong"

If Donald and Atkins went to their max weight i think Akins would win in a landslide.

.

Maybe....But with what we do know I think the two are basically as strong as each other coming out, I think its a matter of Donald just learning technique, I dont expect him to be a force right away either but I think the measurables are there

[Jason_]

Maybe....But with what we do know I think the two are basically as strong as each other coming out, I think its a matter of Donald just learning technique, I dont expect him to be a force right away either but I think the measurables are there

 

If you're primarily going by bench press reps then no you don't.  From your link:

 

 

 

Bench press

The bench press is a test of strength -- 225 pounds, as many reps as the athlete can get. What the NFL scouts are also looking for is endurance. Anybody can do a max one time, but what the bench press tells the pro scouts is how often the athlete frequented his college weight room for the last 3-5 years.

 

If you want to find out who's stronger by using the bench press, then you'd have each of them keep adding weight until they max out.  Going by number of reps you're looking at how many times he can lift that amount before he gets too tired to lift it again...aka you're testing his endurance/stamina.

[Gavin]

If you're primarily going by bench press reps then no you don't.  From your link:

 

 

If you want to find out who's stronger by using the bench press, then you'd have each of them keep adding weight until they max out.  Going by number of reps you're looking at how many times he can lift that amount before he gets too tired to lift it again...aka you're testing his endurance/stamina.

Of course your measuring a persons endurance with the bench press I know...Thats primarily what the bench press is a measure of...But there is an element of strength in that to. Timmy Jernigan benched 27 reps so one would conclude he has very good stamina/endurance......yet there are questions about his endurance/stamina...mainly stemming from Jernigan taking himself out of the Championship game in the 4th quarter for a lengthy period of time.

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/former_tide_nose_guard_josh_ch.html ...Josh Chapman 29 bench press reps at his pro day...solid but not an elite number...But given that number you would think he had very good endurance/stamina coming out....Yet there was questions about his endurance.....I dont think the bench press is a exact science when it comes to measuring stamina/endurance but it does test your muscle memory and thereby gives a GM/Scout an idea of how much they frequented the weight room but the bench press certainly does measure stamina....also  strength

[dgambill]

Of course your measuring a persons endurance with the bench press I know...Thats primarily what the bench press is a measure of...But there is an element of strength in that to. Timmy Jernigan benched 27 reps so one would conclude he has very good stamina/endurance......yet there are questions about his endurance/stamina...mainly stemming from Jernigan taking himself out of the Championship game in the 4th quarter for a lengthy period of time.

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/former_tide_nose_guard_josh_ch.html ...Josh Chapman 29 bench press reps at his pro day...solid but not an elite number...But given that number you would think he had very good endurance/stamina coming out....Yet there was questions about his endurance.....I dont think the bench press is a exact science when it comes to measuring stamina/endurance but it does test your muscle memory and thereby gives a GM/Scout an idea of how much they frequented the weight room but the bench press certainly does measure stamina....also  strength

I think the bench press in the sense of what the NFL combine uses it for is primarily a focus on muscle endurance/stamina more than overall strength. A max lift would give you a better idea of that then simply doing something over and over. Wearing out in a game because they have been running all over the field is an example of poor respiratory conditioning and perhaps their legs than simply upper body stamina like benching measures. To me I don't think you can determine strength from that one test. Some players use more lower body and pad level...to generate their strength...some use technique. To me it is just hard to tell just by reps who is stronger. There is even technique envolved in benching...just like running the 40 and you see some people excell at it although on the field they are no more quicker than someone else. Also having longer arms is a detriment to benching as well...which I think is a big reason why Clowney's numbers look so pedestrian (realitively).

 

All in all Donald my seem a little undersized but I think his motor and football iq/technique will ensure he has a solid career. You can add weight and strength...but its harder to teach a motor and pure ability. I like Donald...think he will make a fine player.

[Dustin]

Of course your measuring a persons endurance with the bench press I know...Thats primarily what the bench press is a measure of...But there is an element of strength in that to. Timmy Jernigan benched 27 reps so one would conclude he has very good stamina/endurance......yet there are questions about his endurance/stamina...mainly stemming from Jernigan taking himself out of the Championship game in the 4th quarter for a lengthy period of time.

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/former_tide_nose_guard_josh_ch.html ...Josh Chapman 29 bench press reps at his pro day...solid but not an elite number...But given that number you would think he had very good endurance/stamina coming out....Yet there was questions about his endurance.....I dont think the bench press is a exact science when it comes to measuring stamina/endurance but it does test your muscle memory and thereby gives a GM/Scout an idea of how much they frequented the weight room but the bench press certainly does measure stamina....also  strength

 

You're confusing muscle endurance with like running endurace. Chapman gets winded fairly easily. Same goes for Jernigan. It's because they are heavy guys.