All Time Baltimore/Indy Colts Team

[jvan1973]

I disagree with any All-Time list of either Colts franchise that puts any punter not named Rohn Stark.

see my post a few up.

[The Old Crow]

For someone that doesn't care, you spend an awful lot of time here.

Let's put it this way, I was a Colt's fan long before you were a Colt's fan. As long as you guys bring up Baltimore stuff, I feel it is my obligation to comment on it.

[The Old Crow]

First off awsome post. I agree with some on Mathis>Freeney. Freeney was a freak getting to the QB, but so is Mathis. Plus Mathis is relentless chasing people down even during plays away from him, that would be my tie breaker! No way I could put Vanderjagt over Vinateiri though, especially if we are picking players that played elsewhere too. How about Raul Allegre or Dean Biacuccia (spelling?)! On another note, I hate it as a Colts fan that in many eyes the Colts were born in "1984". Its such an injustice to former players before that. They wore the horseshoe with the same passion as now but get no credit, kind of like lost souls.Yeah they have Baltimore, but that's now Ravens country so are left behind there also. The Steelers, Cowboys and Packers fans all get to have their full menu of years/teams, while Colts fans only scratch the surface. Thanks again for the post and making it a "complete Colts" list!

I think these old Baltimore Colts are lost only because they want to be part of Baltimore. No disrespect to Indy, but the Hall of Fame and Irsay insist they be part of the current Colts franchise when the vast majority of ex- Baltimore Colt players only want to be associated with Baltimore. Trust me, although there are a few young knucklehead Ravens fan in Baltimore that don't understand the past, for the most part , Baltimore Colts history has been passed from Grandfather, to father, to son. When Raven fans go into the stadium it's tradition to rub Johnny U's high top on the way in the stadium. Money is now be collected to put a Lenny Moore statue outside the stadium. These old Baltimore Colts may seem lost in a franchise sense, but they are still beloved in Baltimore to this day . However, for those who want to do a comprehensive franchise Colts list, it does have some interesting arguments on it, but would be extremely hard to compare.

[jvan1973]

Let's put it this way, I was a Colt's fan long before you were a Colt's fan. As long as you guys bring up Baltimore stuff, I feel it is my obligation to comment on it.

Next year the colts will have been in Indy longer than they were in Baltimore. So i will have been a colts fan longer than you were

[bavanlan]

You know how I feel about this . Not only are you comparing different era's , but also players who played in different city's , where probably 98% of Indianapolis Colt fans never saw Baltimore Colt players in a live game. I guess this poll is for the 2 % of the Colts population that followed them from Baltimore to Indy, and probably most of them lived outside Baltimore. I'm not criticizing people that want to compare the era's, but I think it's a small demographic that does.

On top of that you have different rules where it was harder to pass. Grass at Memorial Stadium versus turf at Hoosier Dome or LOS. I would bet most Indy Colt fans don't even know about Mike Curtis. The people in Indy that pick Peyton Manning are right on, he was the top Indianapolis Colt quarterback. Johnny U will always be the top all time quarterback for the Baltimore Colts, and Baltimore, which is why he has a statue there. He's not part of the Ravens records, but he will be eternally the top quarterback forever in Baltimore football history.

Because of the franchise move, these type of polls are just an odd fit, unlike comparing other franchises. It is almost like two pieces of a puzzle that don't fit, but some people try to constantly fit in. Except for Raymond Berry recently, and some of the 70's era Colts, most of the old guys just want to be remembered as Baltimore Colts, as a seperate stand alone. They have nothing against Indy or it 's fans, but just never played there. I think the majority of younger Indy Colt fans couldn't give two hoots about the old Baltimore Colts. That is why I don't think it's prudent to compare the two eras.

It's really only Baltimore people that have difficulty with it.

No one has a hard time with Dodger greats. Jackie Robinson is well remembered as a "Dodger" not "baseball player from Brooklyn".

[The Old Crow]

Next year the colts will have been in Indy longer than they were in Baltimore. So i will have been a colts fan longer than you were

That's wonderful, but I only care about the first 30 years in Baltimore. My interest in the Indianapolis Colts is as an NFL fan and observer only.

[jvan1973]

That's wonderful, but I only care about the first 30 years in Baltimore. My interest in the Indianapolis Colts is as an NFL fan and observer only.

My interest in Baltimore is even less than that

[The Old Crow]

My interest in Baltimore is even less than that

Fine with me. No crab cakes for you.

[Blueblazes]

On the other hand I was an extreme Baltimore Colts fan for 17 seasons and have been an extreme Indy Colts fan for 30 seasons.Never lived in either city. Equally, deeply interested in the Baltimore Colts and Indianapolis Colts. A "Colts" fan. 

[The Old Crow]

On the other hand I was an extreme Baltimore Colts fan for 17 seasons and have been an extreme Indy Colts fan for 30 seasons.Never lived in either city. Equally, deeply interested in the Baltimore Colts and Indianapolis Colts. A "Colts" fan.

Nothing wrong with that , but I doubt very few Baltimore Colt fans from Baltimore, or in the old Colt strongholds of southern Pa and western Maryland , followed the Colts to Indy. Most Baltimore people were casual NFL fans until the Ravens came to Baltimore . Most of the people I've seen on this forum were non Baltimore people who were mostly out of state. I wonder how many of those fans would have still followed the Colts if they had a name change like the Oilers did with the Titans , when they moved to Nashville , even it is supposedly the same franchise ? I appreciate both histories on each city, but it just seems totally different to me like trying to put together two things that don't mesh.

[HGRekks]

see my post a few up.

Your post is one of several. Of the many on this topic that list mention a punter, it's typically Pat or Hunter. I assume due to lack of familiarity with Rohn.

[jvan1973]

Your post is one of several. Of the many on this topic that list mention a punter, it's typically Pat or Hunter. I assume due to lack of familiarity with Rohn.

Rohn is the best punter in Indy colts history. He had lots of practice..

[colts_100nascar17fan]

Lydell Mitchell or faulk over edge. Ray donaldson over cherilus(since u have three tackles on ur list),triplett no(I know there was better but my mind is drawing a blank), jeff herrod over peterson easily,duane bickett over june, barry krause over freeman(these lb's not in any certain order and the late 80's early to mid 90 s were by far the best lb's they have had and I left a couple out since u had only three listed).

[lennymoore24]

Dude, this is amazing. Another accurate lover of the Colts through the years. And pretty amazing that I agree with all your offense except for very minor changes:

I would put Lenny Moore in for Ameche or Edge at RB (Lenny wasn't a FB, and I didn't see Ameche play); if have to keep a true FB, it would be Ameche

I would move Parker to G so I could put George Kunz in at Tackle.

There never has been a better O lineman in the NFL than Parker-way ahead of his time with quickness as well as strength--maybe some as good but none better.

So true about Bob Vogel being underrated; look back at '60s games and see how much time they had to throw

 

Defensively:

I would put Art Donovan in for Billy Ray Smith at DT, and Stan White in for Bickett at OLB

Good pick with Bobby Boyd--another underrated CB that deserves HOF attention-a shutdown corner before the term was used--HOF Don Maynard had 0 catches vs. Boyd in SB III--that's 0 catches for a fast HOF WR in the biggest game of his team's career because Bobby Boyd was covering him.(and held Paul Warfield to 2 catches for 30 yds in the NFL C'ship game the same year) Maynard and Warfield would be All-Pros in any era. And that was Bobby Boyd's last year of playing--not his prime!

Tough choice between RIck Volk, Bob Sanders or Antoine Bethea at S, but I would go with your pick of Jerry Logan at the other safety spot for sure.

I'd go with Weeb Ewbank as Coach--with 2 Championships, but Shula was awesome with the Colts as well.

 

Great job LennyMoore24

 

Interesting you said George Kunz.  The Colts robbed the Falcons by getting him. What a great tackle!  I was really thinking of him.   Can't argue with your adjustments.  Even with Shula Ewbank.  I know Ewbank won two titles.  I though the Colts teams of the 60s were better but played against better teams.  And can't argue with Lenny Moore!

[lennymoore24]

Bethea not even close nor is Siragusa. Volk and Liscome are just two that were way better.

 

I don't disagree with your points.   I picked Siragusa because he played longer at a higher level, I felt.  Volk was very good as well.  I felt Bethea might have been better overall.  But hey, the fact you know Limpscomb and Volk is good enough to me!

[lennymoore24]

Sorry, I was born in 1992 and was only old enough to remember the beginning of Peyton's career. Not much we can do about that... So in my eyes, it's:

Qb: Peyton Manning- the goat. Nuff said.

Rb: Edgerrin James

Wr1: Reggie Wayne- in my personal opinion has surpassed Marv as the best colts receiver. It's not a popular one, but oh well.

Wr2: Marvin Harrison

Te: Dallas Clark- was one of the best in the nfl for some time.

Lt: Tarik Glenn

C: Jeff Saturday

( can't think of any more Deserving OL off the top of my head)

De: Robert Mathis- the sack fumble master

De: Dwight Freeney

Dt: honestly can't think of any deserving players... Colts interior dline was always a problem

Lb: Cato June

Lb: Jerrell freeman

Lb: Gary Brackett

Cb: Vontae Davis- the best colts corner I can ever remember

Fs: Antoine Bethea

Ss: Bob Sanders

K: Adam vinatieri

P: pat mcafee ( honorable mention: hunter the punter)

I know it's incomplete and I have to learn a lot about the pre-Peyton era, but like I said I'm only 21 and was only able to understand/ follow football during Peyton's career. I am however aware of Johnny U, Raymond Berry, John Mackey, etc... But the Peyton era is all I've known. 50 years from now, hopefully I'll be telling my grand kids about the Peyton and Luck era like you old timers talk about the Johnny U era!

 

I don't know if you can say older timer talk. John U played long before I could have watched him.  I am only 26.  But I became a fan of the Colts and did everything I could to read about all of them and watch every game and highlight I could get.   So I don't know that it is an age thing.  But your list is certainly good.  A book about Johnny U is what got me to like the Colts when I was 5.

[lennymoore24]

First off awsome post. I agree with some on Mathis>Freeney. Freeney was a freak getting to the QB, but so is Mathis. Plus Mathis is relentless chasing people down even during plays away from him, that would be my tie breaker! No way I could put Vanderjagt over Vinateiri though, especially if we are picking players that played elsewhere too. How about Raul Allegre or Dean Biacuccia (spelling?)! On another note, I hate it as a Colts fan that in many eyes the Colts were born in "1984". Its such an injustice to former players before that. They wore the horseshoe with the same passion as now but get no credit, kind of like lost souls.Yeah they have Baltimore, but that's now Ravens country so are left behind there also. The Steelers, Cowboys and Packers fans all get to have their full menu of years/teams, while Colts fans only scratch the surface. Thanks again for the post and making it a "complete Colts" list!    

 

I completely agree with you.  To me, Colts are Colts.  They started in the early 50s.  I make really no difference between Indy and Baltimore.  Love them both.

I think we most be the only fans who do that.  Do you think the St Louis Rams disown the great heritage of the Cleveland/LA Rams?  Bob Waterfield, Norm Van Brocklin?   Why do Indy fans disown Baltimore heritage?   Keep in mind, guys, that one day could happen to you.  What if the Colts moved to LA someday.  Do we disown the Indy times and then only the LA Colts matter?  Colts is Colts in my book.  They didn't start in 1984 or 1998.

[lennymoore24]

Please guys and gals.  Can't we all just get along?  Can our Baltimore fans embrace the Indy Colts?  Can our Indy fans embrace the Baltimore Colts?  They are all the Colts.  Just like the Chicago/St Louis/Arizona Cardinals.  The Cleveland/LA St Louis Rams.  The Brooklyn/LA Dodgers.  We seem to be the only franchise that gets * about what group.  Bert Jones was a great QB.  Bert Jones was like what Andrew Luck is today.  Had he not gotten hurt, he would have been an alltime great.  Learn about him.  Embrace him!

[dw49]

I don't disagree with your points.   I picked Siragusa because he played longer at a higher level, I felt.  Volk was very good as well.  I felt Bethea might have been better overall.  But hey, the fact you know Limpscomb and Volk is good enough to me!

 

 

You should google Big Daddy Liscome and read the various articles on him. Really a great read. He was so great on one hand but a total head case for sure.

[dudeski]

You know how I feel about this . Not only are you comparing different era's , but also players who played in different city's , where probably 98% of Indianapolis Colt fans never saw Baltimore Colt players in a live game. I guess this poll is for the 2 % of the Colts population that followed them from Baltimore to Indy, and probably most of them lived outside Baltimore. I'm not criticizing people that want to compare the era's, but I think it's a small demographic that does.

On top of that you have different rules where it was harder to pass. Grass at Memorial Stadium versus turf at Hoosier Dome or LOS. I would bet most Indy Colt fans don't even know about Mike Curtis. The people in Indy that pick Peyton Manning are right on, he was the top Indianapolis Colt quarterback. Johnny U will always be the top all time quarterback for the Baltimore Colts, and Baltimore, which is why he has a statue there. He's not part of the Ravens records, but he will be eternally the top quarterback forever in Baltimore football history.

Because of the franchise move, these type of polls are just an odd fit, unlike comparing other franchises. It is almost like two pieces of a puzzle that don't fit, but some people try to constantly fit in. Except for Raymond Berry recently, and some of the 70's era Colts, most of the old guys just want to be remembered as Baltimore Colts, as a seperate stand alone. They have nothing against Indy or it 's fans, but just never played there. I think the majority of younger Indy Colt fans couldn't give two hoots about the old Baltimore Colts. That is why I don't think it's prudent to compare the two eras.

what city they played in doesn't matter

[The Old Crow]

what city they played in doesn't matter

I have a different opinion on that, but I do like the fact that you guys like the Baltimore Colts history. I have nothing against the Indy Colts or their fans, they have a great organization, but the Baltimore Colts and Baltimore Ravens are the teams I rooted for. For me, the Baltimore Colts ended in 1984, we were in the wilderness for 12 years, and then our football history was reborn with the Ravens. So to me, the Colts aren't the Colts wherever they move, although I respect those who disagree with me. Although technically it's the same franchise , it can't be the same as the city is different.

Most of the other teams that have moved, with the possible exceptions of the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers , were non-descript teams and franchises that moved. The Baltimore Colts move gets more focus due to the historic nature of that team, it's impact on NFL history, and the manner in which Bob Irsay moved it. That's why it gets more attention than some of the other moves.

[BlueShoe]

MLB: Mike Curtis - Easy pick.  Very, very good MLB.

 

I cannot agree with this. I believe Jeff Herrod is the best linebacker to ever put on a Colts uniform. I understand this will not be a popular opinion, especially with Baltimore Colts fans. Herrod did not play in an era when the Colts were in contention (except for 95) and it is the only reason he is not a household NFL name. Unfortunately for Herrod, he did not play in an era where players on losing teams were noticed. Back then only punters, kickers, and return men made the Pro Bowl from losing teams.

 

I only saw the highlights of Mike Curtis, and that seems to be remembered the most. I watched Jeff Herrod live, and he was the real deal. Herrod was as close to perfect as a MLB can be.

 

For those who never had the opportunity to see Herrod play, do some research on him. You will not be disappointing. 

[BlueShoe]

I think I'd take Marshall Faulk over Edge.

 

in a heartbeat. It is not even close.

 

Marshall Faulk, in my mind, is the most complete back to ever play in the NFL.

[BlueShoe]

you must be very young

 

I am not sure what to be surprised the most by. His actual post or the fact that 99 people actually liked it. 

 

WOW!

 

We are getting old brother.

 

For all of these people talking "All-Time Great" Indianapolis Colts players only; there is no mention of Billy Brooks, Jeff Herrod (tackling machine), Mike Prior, Clarence Verdin (made Pro Bowls as a returner), Albert Bentley (was once 80% of our offense),  Eugene Daniel (38 career picks), and I could go on for a while.

 

How Tarik Glenn is not a collective shoe in as the best LT in Colts (Indy or Baltimore) history is beyond my comprehension. 

 

And Larry Tripplett? This must be some kind of joke, right? Maybe a Kentucky fan wrote it?

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion; however, some of us are left to scratch our heads and share dumbfounded looks.

[Coltsince4]

So I would love to see what you guys and gals would put down for the all time Colts team. And I mean Colts, no matter what city they called home. here is mine:

QB: John Unitas - Doesn't have Peytons records, but probably did more for his team and titles given the time he played in. Toughest position to pick on this team

RB: Edgerran James - Hard to argue with the yards he put up.

FB: Alan Ameche - Didn't play that long in the NFL but what a fullback

WR: Raymond Berry - Made himself a great receive despite physical limitations

WR: Marvin Harrison - Probably the greatest Colt receiver of all time

TE: John Mackey - What a freight train coming at you with speed!

T: Bob Vogel - Great offensive tackle. Doesn't get the respect.

T: Jim Parker - As dominant as a tackle as you will see

G: Chris Hinton - He could play tackle or guard, so I'll start him at guard

G:

C: Ray Donaldson - Considered one of the best centers in the NFL for a long time. Very strong and quick footed

DE: Dwight Freeney - Relentless on every play

DE: Gino Marchetti - Considered by many the best DE of his era. Deacons Jones looked up to him

DT: Tony Siragusa - You simply couldn't move the man. Great run stuffer.

DT: BillY Ray Smith - Very good lineman who could play end or tackle

LB: Ted Hendricks - Didn't play too long with Baltimore but was very good his entire career.

MLB: Mike Curtis - Easy pick. Very, very good MLB.

LB: Duane Bickett - Forgetton Colt who could play run and rush the QB very well.

CB: Ray Buchanon - Size, speed, and playmaking ability

CB: Bobby Boyd - Long time Colts standout

S: Antoine Bethea - Sanders was flashier, but Bethea was better for a longer time.

S: Jerry Logan - 10 year starter who stood out

P: Rohn Stark - One of the NFLs best during his career. Great athlete

K: Mike Vanderjagt - Gets flack but one of the best kickers in NFL history.

KR - Joe Washington - Could do it all.

Coach: Don Shula - Never lead Colts to a title but had them good every year.

Colts had some cool dudes!!! Jimmy Ore also comes to mind!

[Coltsince4]

Nothing wrong with that , but I doubt very few Baltimore Colt fans from Baltimore, or in the old Colt strongholds of southern Pa and western Maryland , followed the Colts to Indy. Most Baltimore people were casual NFL fans until the Ravens came to Baltimore . Most of the people I've seen on this forum were non Baltimore people who were mostly out of state. I wonder how many of those fans would have still followed the Colts if they had a name change like the Oilers did with the Titans , when they moved to Nashville , even it is supposedly the same franchise ? I appreciate both histories on each city, but it just seems totally different to me like trying to put together two things that don't mesh.

The only thing I can say is if the Colts like Titan etc were, its a given on I would no longer be a Colts fan. That would be a bummer.

[Coltsince4]

I am not sure what to be surprised the most by. His actual post or the fact that 99 people actually liked it. 

 

WOW!

 

We are getting old brother.

 

For all of these people talking "All-Time Great" Indianapolis Colts players only; there is no mention of Billy Brooks, Jeff Herrod (tackling machine), Mike Prior, Clarence Verdin (made Pro Bowls as a returner), Albert Bentley (was once 80% of our offense),  Eugene Daniel (38 career picks), and I could go on for a while.

 

How Tarik Glenn is not a collective shoe in as the best LT in Colts (Indy or Baltimore) history is beyond my comprehension. 

 

And Larry Tripplett? This must be some kind of joke, right? Maybe a Kentucky fan wrote it?

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion; however, some of us are left to scratch our heads and share dumbfounded looks.

Hey what you talking about on Kentucky fan? GO WILDCATS!!!!!

[dudeski]

I have a different opinion on that, but I do like the fact that you guys like the Baltimore Colts history. I have nothing against the Indy Colts or their fans, they have a great organization, but the Baltimore Colts and Baltimore Ravens are the teams I rooted for. For me, the Baltimore Colts ended in 1984, we were in the wilderness for 12 years, and then our football history was reborn with the Ravens. So to me, the Colts aren't the Colts wherever they move, although I respect those who disagree with me. Although technically it's the same franchise , it can't be the same as the city is different.

Most of the other teams that have moved, with the possible exceptions of the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers , were non-descript teams and franchises that moved. The Baltimore Colts move gets more focus due to the historic nature of that team, it's impact on NFL history, and the manner in which Bob Irsay moved it. That's why it gets more attention than some of the other moves.

it's the colts. No separation because of the city. Not two different teams. 1 team. Baltimore should have gotten their act together. Can't blame that on the colts.

[The Old Crow]

it's the colts. No separation because of the city. Not two different teams. 1 team. Baltimore should have gotten their act together. Can't blame that on the colts.

I don't blame the Colts, I blame Bob Irsay and the Baltimore politicians. Technically it is one team, but most of the old Baltimore Colt players don't want to be part of Indianapolis in the record books, or the Hall of Fame. That is the rub. They don't dislike Indy, they just never played a game there, except for a few of the guys at the end. They want to be what they were, Baltimore Colts in the city of Baltimore where they played. They would rather be honored at Ravens stadium in the town where most of them live. Raymond Berry sold out, but most follow the lead of the Unitas family.

Most people in Baltimore would agree that the Indianapolis Colts is a well run and successful team. We have moved onto the Ravens, but under no circumstances will we ever let go of the Baltimore Colts history, and we will always have the backs of the old Baltimore Colt players. I was recently talking to Ordell Braase and Tom Matte, and they are as much of the fabric of Baltimore, as they ever were.

The Irsay's can move a team or franchise, but they can't rewrite history, although they have tried mightily with the help of sycophants in the NFL front office over the years, and the Hall of Fame.

[lennymoore24]

I cannot agree with this. I believe Jeff Herrod is the best linebacker to ever put on a Colts uniform. I understand this will not be a popular opinion, especially with Baltimore Colts fans. Herrod did not play in an era when the Colts were in contention (except for 95) and it is the only reason he is not a household NFL name. Unfortunately for Herrod, he did not play in an era where players on losing teams were noticed. Back then only punters, kickers, and return men made the Pro Bowl from losing teams.

 

I only saw the highlights of Mike Curtis, and that seems to be remembered the most. I watched Jeff Herrod live, and he was the real deal. Herrod was as close to perfect as a MLB can be.

 

For those who never had the opportunity to see Herrod play, do some research on him. You will not be disappointing. 

 

Good opinion!  Jeff Herrod was a very good linebacker and the heart and soul of that Colts defense.  I picked Curtis because he was fast (he played fullback out of college as well), mean, and a leader.  He was one of the top middle linebackers in the game.  But I don't think someone can go wrong with Herrod either.  Great player.

[dudeski]

I don't blame the Colts, I blame Bob Irsay and the Baltimore politicians. Technically it is one team, but most of the old Baltimore Colt players don't want to be part of Indianapolis in the record books, or the Hall of Fame. That is the rub. They don't dislike Indy, they just never played a game there, except for a few of the guys at the end. They want to be what they were, Baltimore Colts in the city of Baltimore where they played. They would rather be honored at Ravens stadium in the town where most of them live. Raymond Berry sold out, but most follow the lead of the Unitas family.

Most people in Baltimore would agree that the Indianapolis Colts is a well run and successful team. We have moved onto the Ravens, but under no circumstances will we ever let go of the Baltimore Colts history, and we will always have the backs of the old Baltimore Colt players. I was recently talking to Ordell Braase and Tom Matte, and they are as much of the fabric of Baltimore, as they ever were.

The Irsay's can move a team or franchise, but they can't rewrite history, although they have tried mightily with the help of sycophants in the NFL front office over the years, and the Hall of Fame.

who cares? Players whine. Big deal. They have no say.

Bob irsay did what was best for the franchise. You and the players can cry about it all you want. The franchise is what matters

[Jason_]

Sorry, I was born in 1992 and was only old enough to remember the beginning of Peyton's career. Not much we can do about that... So in my eyes, it's:

Qb: Peyton Manning- the goat. Nuff said.

Rb: Edgerrin James

Wr1: Reggie Wayne- in my personal opinion has surpassed Marv as the best colts receiver. It's not a popular one, but oh well.

Wr2: Marvin Harrison

Te: Dallas Clark- was one of the best in the nfl for some time.

Lt: Tarik Glenn

C: Jeff Saturday

( can't think of any more Deserving OL off the top of my head)

De: Robert Mathis- the sack fumble master

De: Dwight Freeney

Dt: honestly can't think of any deserving players... Colts interior dline was always a problem

Lb: Cato June

Lb: Jerrell freeman

Lb: Gary Brackett

Cb: Vontae Davis- the best colts corner I can ever remember

Fs: Antoine Bethea

Ss: Bob Sanders

K: Adam vinatieri

P: pat mcafee ( honorable mention: hunter the punter)

I know it's incomplete and I have to learn a lot about the pre-Peyton era, but like I said I'm only 21 and was only able to understand/ follow football during Peyton's career. I am however aware of Johnny U, Raymond Berry, John Mackey, etc... But the Peyton era is all I've known. 50 years from now, hopefully I'll be telling my grand kids about the Peyton and Luck era like you old timers talk about the Johnny U era!

 

So you're gonna be going back to the tampa 2 defense I hope?  Not really any other choice with that LB corp lol

[jvan1973]

I don't blame the Colts, I blame Bob Irsay and the Baltimore politicians. Technically it is one team, but most of the old Baltimore Colt players don't want to be part of Indianapolis in the record books, or the Hall of Fame. That is the rub. They don't dislike Indy, they just never played a game there, except for a few of the guys at the end. They want to be what they were, Baltimore Colts in the city of Baltimore where they played. They would rather be honored at Ravens stadium in the town where most of them live. Raymond Berry sold out, but most follow the lead of the Unitas family.

Most people in Baltimore would agree that the Indianapolis Colts is a well run and successful team. We have moved onto the Ravens, but under no circumstances will we ever let go of the Baltimore Colts history, and we will always have the backs of the old Baltimore Colt players. I was recently talking to Ordell Braase and Tom Matte, and they are as much of the fabric of Baltimore, as they ever were.

The Irsay's can move a team or franchise, but they can't rewrite history, although they have tried mightily with the help of sycophants in the NFL front office over the years, and the Hall of Fame.

I don't recall ever hearing any of the Brooklyn dodgers crying that they never played in LA

[The Old Crow]

who cares? Players whine. Big deal. They have no say.

Bob irsay did what was best for the franchise. You and the players can cry about it all you want. The franchise is what matters

They could care less about Bob Irsay. They were the franchise and created all the history. All Bob Irsay did was rip down the image of the Colts. Bob Irsay always did what was best for Bob Irsay. Never forget that.

[The Old Crow]

I don't recall ever hearing any of the Brooklyn dodgers crying that they never played in LA

Probably because you have never been to Brooklyn.

[ColtsHappy]

Hey all you COLTS fans.....

 

What an amazing and interesting thread! Man, Lenny Moore, Ray Berry, Jimmy Orr, Tom Matte and Mike freakin CURTIS! The list goes on and on as I take this wonderful trip down memory lane -  as you have all clearly illustrated here.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread and I am probably repeating my version of stuff you have heard on here for years. I am seriously not trying to open up old Baltimore wounds or start a dialog on this, but if you would allow me the indulgence - I would appreciate being able to tell my side of the story.

 

I am from Fort Wayne originally, but haven't lived there since 1971 when I went into the army. I grew up an INCREDIBLE Colts fan. I read everything I could about the Colts - I would hit the library every monday morning so I could read the Baltimore paper and read all about the Colts game. I also read the original Johnny Unitas book when I was like ten years old - and I started my intense infatuation in 1958, when I was six. Yes, I read about Johnny U delivering coal as a child and playing on football fields with shards of broken glass and the whole deal. I may have known much more about the Colts than many of the local Baltimore folks, although I didn't have the advantage of bumping into one of them at the local supermarket or restaurant. I didn't live there - so I didn't have the "stories' or the personal contact. 

 

My wife of 37 years grew up in Gettysburg on the Mason Dixon line - right on the Maryland border - and guess what? Her entire family grew up watching the Baltimore Colts. Since Baltimore was the nearest big market television area, and of course, they got Colts games. Philly was far enough away that they got little or no reception - or they may have become Eagles fans, who knows?

 

After the move - for many years - I spent many a sunday dinner with her family hearing about the "Indianapolis Irsays" and them insulting everyone in their path about how they were so "wronged" by the 1984 Mayflower "rescue".  Yes, I considered it and still do, a "rescue" to move them away from a fickle fan base that found a number of fans no longer supporting their beloved Colts.  
 

I always thought it was all in good fun, after all, we aren't saving lives here, it's only football - but they were downright vindictive and hurtful towards me about it.  The most interesting thing is that - as time wore on, their side of the story seemed to change more and more in their favor. It was never about a new stadium and dire lack of attendance at the old one - it was always about what an evil man Bob Irsay was for misrepresenting his plans. I can tell you - if I owned ANY business and I knew the state legislature was plotting to take it away from me, as a reasonable man - I would be out of there POST HASTE. Good for Irsay! Of course he had to misrepresent a few facts - it was the only way he could get out of there cleanly and with his investment and his team intact.

 

What I failed to understand then and what I still fail to understand is simply this: If they were such big fans, where were they? Why was the stadium less than 1/2 full  for the majority of the last couple of seasons in Baltimore? If they cared so much, why couldn't they come up with a new stadium for their "beloved" team? The minute the Baltimore Colts fell on hard times and started losing with regularity - a pretty sizable portion of their fan based walked away - or at the very least stopped supporting the team at the stadium. The truth is the truth is the truth and there you have it.

 

One of my prized possessions is a signed Johnny Unitas/Peyton Manning football. Yep they hung out and signed a bunch of em, for those who may not know - the only thing missing on there is the signature of Andrew Luck. I want to wait til after the next Superbowl win to try and get "lucky" on Andrew's signature, but it will happen. I won't give up until I have it. 

 

Unitas had an unbelievable respect and admiration for Peyton, and I would be willing to bet he maybe secretly watched his share of Colt's games. I adore my family in spite of the vindictiveness they have projected over the years - but the Colts were rescued for a reason - they belong in Indy. Baltimore has the Ravens and they are one up on us. I got a funny feeling we are going to be catching up real soon.....

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

Hey all you COLTS fans.....

 

What an amazing and interesting thread! Man, Lenny Moore, Ray Berry, Jimmy Orr, Tom Matte and Mike freakin CURTIS! The list goes on and on as I take this wonderful trip down memory lane -  as you have all clearly illustrated here.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread and I am probably repeating my version of stuff you have heard on here for years. I am seriously not trying to open up old Baltimore wounds or start a dialog on this, but if you would allow me the indulgence - I would appreciate being able to tell my side of the story.

 

I am from Fort Wayne originally, but haven't lived there since 1971 when I went into the army. I grew up an INCREDIBLE Colts fan. I read everything I could about the Colts - I would hit the library every monday morning so I could read the Baltimore paper and read all about the Colts game. I also read the original Johnny Unitas book when I was like ten years old - and I started my intense infatuation in 1958, when I was six. Yes, I read about Johnny U delivering coal as a child and playing on football fields with shards of broken glass and the whole deal. I may have known much more about the Colts than many of the local Baltimore folks, although I didn't have the advantage of bumping into one of them at the local supermarket or restaurant. I didn't live there - so I didn't have the "stories' or the personal contact. 

 

My wife of 37 years grew up in Gettysburg on the Mason Dixon line - right on the Maryland border - and guess what? Her entire family grew up watching the Baltimore Colts. Since Baltimore was the nearest big market television area, and of course, they got Colts games. Philly was far enough away that they got little or no reception - or they may have become Eagles fans, who knows?

 

After the move - for many years - I spent many a sunday dinner with her family hearing about the "Indianapolis Irsays" and them insulting everyone in their path about how they were so "wronged" by the 1984 Mayflower "rescue".  Yes, I considered it and still do, a "rescue" to move them away from a fickle fan base that found a number of fans no longer supporting their beloved Colts.  

 

I always thought it was all in good fun, after all, we aren't saving lives here, it's only football - but they were downright vindictive and hurtful towards me about it.  The most interesting thing is that - as time wore on, their side of the story seemed to change more and more in their favor. It was never about a new stadium and dire lack of attendance at the old one - it was always about what an evil man Bob Irsay was for misrepresenting his plans. I can tell you - if I owned ANY business and I knew the state legislature was plotting to take it away from me, as a reasonable man - I would be out of there POST HASTE. Good for Irsay! Of course he had to misrepresent a few facts - it was the only way he could get out of there cleanly and with his investment and his team intact.

 

What I failed to understand then and what I still fail to understand is simply this: If they were such big fans, where were they? Why was the stadium less than 1/2 full  for the majority of the last couple of seasons in Baltimore? If they cared so much, why couldn't they come up with a new stadium for their "beloved" team? The minute the Baltimore Colts fell on hard times and started losing with regularity - a pretty sizable portion of their fan based walked away - or at the very least stopped supporting the team at the stadium. The truth is the truth is the truth and there you have it.

 

One of my prized possessions is a signed Johnny Unitas/Peyton Manning football. Yep they hung out and signed a bunch of em, for those who may not know - the only thing missing on there is the signature of Andrew Luck. I want to wait til after the next Superbowl win to try and get "lucky" on Andrew's signature, but it will happen. I won't give up until I have it. 

 

Unitas had an unbelievable respect and admiration for Peyton, and I would be willing to bet he maybe secretly watched his share of Colt's games. I adore my family in spite of the vindictiveness they have projected over the years - but the Colts were rescued for a reason - they belong in Indy. Baltimore has the Ravens and they are one up on us. I got a funny feeling we are going to be catching up real soon.....

 

ColtsHappy

For being such a Colt's expert , you should know a lot of the answers to the questions you brought up. First , Irsay came in from Chicago knowing nothing about football, and almost immediately started to look to move the team. The Colts sold out every game from 1958- 1971 , and the Ravens have sold out every game since 1996. Irsay came in and immediately turned off the local politicians who might have built him a stadium, and totally alienated the fan base trading away Bert Jones, Rodger Carr , and John Dutton. He went into the locker room and raged at players, called plays from the owners box, and didnt even know the names of his own players. By the mid seventies, remember he bought them in 1972, he was already publicly visiting Jacksonville, Phoenix, Indy , and Nashville. Like Indianapolis 84-96 under Irsay rule , attendance after horrible season after horrible season caused attendance to slip in that city also. It is not just a Baltimore phenominum. As for the eminent domain, it was NEVER passed until AFTER the Colts left. The only reason it came about was as a last resort, as Baltimore officials had already heard the Colts were as good as gone. Remember , reporters were dogging Bob Irsay, Jim Irsay, and Mike Chernoff's every move. Also , Unitas stood on the Ravens sideline, and was totally with Baltimore. I'm sure he liked Manning because of Archie, but he was a Baltimore guy, no disrespect to Indy. For reading so much about the Colts, you left out a few gaps.

[jvan1973]

Probably because you have never been to Brooklyn.

I haven't heard Warren Moon or Earl Campbell cry that their records are in Nashville

[mahagga73]

You know how I feel about this . Not only are you comparing different era's , but also players who played in different city's , where probably 98% of Indianapolis Colt fans never saw Baltimore Colt players in a live game. I guess this poll is for the 2 % of the Colts population that followed them from Baltimore to Indy, and probably most of them lived outside Baltimore. I'm not criticizing people that want to compare the era's, but I think it's a small demographic that does.

On top of that you have different rules where it was harder to pass. Grass at Memorial Stadium versus turf at Hoosier Dome or LOS. I would bet most Indy Colt fans don't even know about Mike Curtis. The people in Indy that pick Peyton Manning are right on, he was the top Indianapolis Colt quarterback. Johnny U will always be the top all time quarterback for the Baltimore Colts, and Baltimore, which is why he has a statue there. He's not part of the Ravens records, but he will be eternally the top quarterback forever in Baltimore football history.

Because of the franchise move, these type of polls are just an odd fit, unlike comparing other franchises. It is almost like two pieces of a puzzle that don't fit, but some people try to constantly fit in. Except for Raymond Berry recently, and some of the 70's era Colts, most of the old guys just want to be remembered as Baltimore Colts, as a seperate stand alone. They have nothing against Indy or it 's fans, but just never played there. I think the majority of younger Indy Colt fans couldn't give two hoots about the old Baltimore Colts. That is why I don't think it's prudent to compare the two eras.

I love your posts Old Crow but I completely disagree about most the old Baltimore players wanting to be known only as Baltimore Colts. They had a 75 Colts reunion a few years ago and most all of them , including Curtis and Bert were there. There were a few like Johnny U, Laird, and Matte who were singing that song, but they all also live or lived in the Baltimore area. I really don't think most players from Baltimore care about the city of Baltimore that much, they didnt stay or come from there. I do agree however that this poll is silly because most the people on this board were either not alive or Bears fans when they moved. Us Baltimore/Indy fans are a minority of the fanbase , but there are still a lot of people I have met who followed them in both places.

[The Old Crow]

I haven't heard Warren Moon or Earl Campbell cry that their records are in Nashville

They don't care about their football heritage and history, but we do.