Michael Sam

[Superman]

Btw, Mike Sam is an awesome name for a linebacker.

 

Yeah, it really is. Don't tell me his middle name is William...

[Gavin]

Those same things go for Mathis tho. If we were to draft him, he would be a fit for playing Rush LB where he doesn't have to worry about either of those things (Mathis doesn't drop in coverage or contain).

 

But if we were to draft him, I don't think the staff would have him play Sam.

Oh Mathis looks like he is asked to contain alright he just dont do it consistently well, If we were to draft a OLB/DE hybrid I'd be fine with him being our pick, There are just a few I'd rather have that will likely be around at various points in the draft

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Those same things go for Mathis tho. If we were to draft him, he would be a fit for playing Rush LB where he doesn't have to worry about either of those things (Mathis doesn't drop in coverage or contain).

 

But if we were to draft him, I don't think the staff would try to shoehorn him into playing Sam LB.

I hope we don't draft someone that isn't a good fit. I'd only want him if he does end up falling for "some reason"

[Dustin]

Oh Mathis looks like he is asked to contain alright he just dont do it consistently well, If we were to draft a OLB/DE hybrid I'd be fine with him being our pick, There are just a few I'd rather have that will likely be around at various points in the draft

 

Oh no i get that, just saying that he'd be fine as a situational pass rusher/ rotation guy at rush LB.

[Superman]

Oh Mathis looks like he is asked to contain alright he just dont do it consistently well, If we were to draft a OLB/DE hybrid I'd be fine with him being our pick, There are just a few I'd rather have that will likely be around at various points in the draft

I'd take M. Sam over Sidbury or Adongo, for instance. As a reserve Rush backer, he'd be fine. Learning the run responsibilities takes time, but it's not that hard. Werner wss coming along last season, and we threw a lot on his plate. Stick someone like M. Sam strictly at Rush, and he'd do fine.

[Gavin]

Oh no i get that, just saying that he'd be fine as a situational pass rusher/ rotation guy at rush LB.

Agreed

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Honestly if the guy can play who cares!! But in the real world there will be guys who care on his team, the opposing teams, & home & away crowds. I just watched 42 the Jackie Robinson story last night & he will encounter much of the same problems that Jackie did only to a smaller degree IMO. Good luck to the kid! I would be cool if we drafted him. i do admire his bravery!

[southwest1]

It's no different that asking a potential employee about the type of people they date, whether they live with someone they're not married to, etc. Your own personal beliefs, morals, judgments, etc., are really not appropriate topics of conversation on a job interview. The NFL used to sort of operate outside of normal guidelines with this kind of stuff, but more and more, they're having to fall in line with the whole "workplace environment" thing. And not just on sexual orientation, but personal history, family history, etc. The Dez Bryant situation made that very clear, and the Incognito/Martin thing will probably influence more change in the near future.

 

Bottom line, if you refuse someone a chance at employment on the basis of sexual orientation, it's discrimination. That includes your organization's supposed desire to avoid the potential distraction that might come with having a gay player or employee. The NFL player selection process is a little different, but if teams make a big deal about not wanting someone who has come out as gay, they are inviting legal scrutiny. 

A nice reply Superman. I ran out of likes. 

 

I am curious though if the wonderlic test given at the Combine in INDY asks any questions in a hypothetical like fashion to gauge how athletes feel about having a teammate attracted to the same sex. You probably can't ask that question directly, but it would be nice to have a mechanism in place to ascertain player perceptions in a locker room & whether or not they can accept a gay teammate prior to an organization drafting a potential gay player to their franchise & see if the proper psychological experts are in place to counsel anyone having problems with adjusting in the locker room gay or straight. 

 

In the interview phase of the rookie selection process can HCs ask about alcohol consumption, narcotics usage, criminal records, & gentlemen's clubs visits? When owners spend millions on draft picks, how do they put their mind at ease & know that a wise fiscal investment in an athlete is being made? I don't expect sainthood here, but an owner needs to separate habitual trouble makers from a guy that is otherwise a good kid that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[Blackhawk4]

A nice reply Superman. I ran out of likes. 

 

I am curious though if the wonderlic test given at the Combine in INDY asks any questions in a hypothetical like fashion to gauge how athletes feel about having a teammate attracted to the same sex. You probably can't ask that question directly, but it would be nice to have a mechanism in place to ascertain player perceptions in a locker room & whether or not they can accept a gay teammate prior to an organization drafting a potential gay player to their franchise & see if the proper psychological experts are in place to counsel anyone having problems with adjusting in the locker room gay or straight. 

 

 

Wonderlic won't cover that, but the one on one interviews can. 

[Gavin]

I'd take M. Sam over Sidbury or Adongo, for instance. As a reserve Rush backer, he'd be fine. Learning the run responsibilities takes time, but it's not that hard. Werner wss coming along last season, and we threw a lot on his plate. Stick someone like M. Sam strictly at Rush, and he'd do fine.

If Van Noy falls (I dont think he will) I'd rather have him, Now as far as other OLB's that are probably more realistic to get I'd take:

 

1.Adrian Hubbard(Not an elite pass rusher but does well against the run)

2.Jeremiah Attaochu

3.Carl Bradford

 

In various rounds before Sam....But I'd take Sam over Sidbury and Adongo

[Nadine]

This is a difficult topic to avoid political and religious views. So thank you to those who have. Some have been removed.

 

My opinion on this......I hope he's drafted and I hope he plays and I hope is plays really well.

 

It makes me think of Jackie Robinson breaking the race barrier in baseball.........and all that he encountered and dealt with in the process of doing that.

[Superman]

A nice reply Superman. I ran out of likes. 

 

I am curious though if the wonderlic test given at the Combine in INDY asks any questions in a hypothetical like fashion to gauge how athletes feel about having a teammate attracted to the same sex. You probably can't ask that question directly, but it would be nice to have a mechanism in place to ascertain player perceptions in a locker room & whether or not they can accept a gay teammate prior to an organization drafting a potential gay player to their franchise & see if the proper psychological experts are in place to counsel anyone having problems with adjusting in the locker room gay or straight. 

 

In the interview phase of the rookie selection process can HCs ask about alcohol consumption, narcotics usage, criminal records, & gentlemen's clubs visits? When owners spend millions on draft picks, how do they put their mind at ease & know that a wise fiscal investment in an athlete is being made? I don't expect sainthood here, but an owner needs to separate habitual trouble makers from a guy that is otherwise a good kid that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 

Wonderlic is really not altered by the NFL. I believe it's independently administered, and the team's just get the score, not the answers given by the players. I don't even think it's like the SATs, where you can see what a person got on the math section vs what they got on the English section. 

 

The interview process is done by the teams, but that's kind of what we're talking about. If a team is asking inappropriate questions, it's going to become a problem. 

[Superman]

If Van Noy falls (I dont think he will) I'd rather have him, Now as far as other OLB's that are probably more realistic to get I'd take:

 

1.Adrian Hubbard(Not an elite pass rusher but does well against the run)

2.Jeremiah Attaochu

3.Carl Bradford

 

In various rounds before Sam....But I'd Sam over Sidbury and Adongo

 

I'd rather have any of them over M. Sam, no question. That's why they're all rated higher than him; he's projected as a 5th rounder right now (there are rumblings that he dropped as his orientation became commonly known, but who knows about that...) But if we had a chance at M. Sam late in the 5th, he'd make a good rotational pass rusher. I'd only worry about him being able to contain the run and drop into coverage if you're going to have him on the field for 30+ snaps a game, and that wouldn't be the case.

 

Off topic, but since you mentioned it, I have my fingers and toes crossed that Van Noy falls to #59. He'd be a great hybrid backer in our front. Play him at Sam in base packages, move him inside in nickel situations. 

[southwest1]

Wonderlic is really not altered by the NFL. I believe it's independently administered, and the team's just get the score, not the answers given by the players. I don't even think it's like the SATs, where you can see what a person got on the math section vs what they got on the English section. 

 

The interview process is done by the teams, but that's kind of what we're talking about. If a team is asking inappropriate questions, it's going to become a problem. 

Yeah, I suppose the best way to get sensitive questions answered regarding players is to talk to college coordinators, HCs, professors, academic tutors, & cops who filed the police reports, & bartenders if necessary. 

 

Given what happened with Aaron Hernandez in NE, I fear that athlete's with a checkered past will get less consideration & benefit of the doubt now. And that is wrong. Not all black sheep commit cold blooded murder. 

[Nadine]

Honestly if the guy can play who cares!! But in the real world there will be guys who care on his team, the opposing teams, & home & away crowds. I just watched 42 the Jackie Robinson story last night & he will encounter much of the same problems that Jackie did only to a smaller degree IMO. Good luck to the kid! I would be cool if we drafted him. i do admire his bravery!

I recently watched that too.  What he endured was pretty awful.  But he loved baseball and he persevered.

Hate is never ok

[Superman]

Yeah, I suppose the best way to get sensitive questions answered regarding players is to talk to college coordinators, HCs, professors, academic tutors, & cops who filed the police reports, & bartenders if necessary. 

 

Given what happened with Aaron Hernandez in NE, I fear that athlete's with a checkered past will get less consideration & benefit of the doubt now. And that is wrong. Not all black sheep commit cold blooded murder. 

 

Well sexual orientation and similar lifestyle questions are not really the business of the teams evaluating the players.

 

But there does need to be balance, like you say. Situations like Aaron Hernandez highlight that very well.

[Indygal1218]

Well sexual orientation and similar lifestyle questions are not really the business of the teams evaluating the players.

 

But there does need to be balance, like you say. Situations like Aaron Hernandez highlight that very well.

 

Yeah, you might want to be able to ask a potential player if they've ever shot someone in the face.

[John Dee]

IMO the situation teams will face "if drafting MS" is this......

 

The "activism" parade that will surely form a Mike Sam block in the stadium.     And I would imagine ...   "in some stadiums" it will get ugly.

 

He is not he issue...    IMO, it is the over flow of folk supporting dude.      That will be ............     hard to handle.

 

jmo

 

I would not mess with him.

[John Dee]

Ray Lewis......   

 

just sayin.........

 

If you are good..............      you will get paid.

 

Yeah, you might want to be able to ask a potential player if they've ever shot someone in the face.

[southwest1]

Are you allowed to do that? Isn't honesty labeled bigotry by the Borg. Groupthink is a requirement, right? --Brian Casserly

 

 

 

I thought it was the Feringis.  .....or was that the Bee Gees???

 

 Borg, the Bee Gees, & Feringi all mentioned on a football topic. Brent & Brian gets bonus points for making me chuckle. ​ 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

IMO the situation teams will face "if drafting MS" is this......

 

The "activism" parade that will surely form a Mike Sam block in the stadium.     And I would imagine ...   "in some stadiums" it will get ugly.

 

He is not he issue...    IMO, it is the over flow of folk supporting dude.      That will be ............     hard to handle.

 

jmo

 

I would not mess with him.

 

See, I don't know if that's legal. This is who he is, nothing something he did. Compare it with the Michael Vick situation (which blew over in a short period of time, by the way), and the activism associated with that, and you see a distinction. Vick did cruel and unusual things because he chose to. Michael Sam is just living his life, hasn't done anything criminal, and isn't victimizing anyone or anything else. It's no one's business what his orientation is, and to base a hiring decision off of it can be considered discrimination.

 

JMO, not trying to start an argument or anything. I'm curious what the legal ramifications would be. 

[John Dee]

[John Dee]

I know...

 

touchy subject...     for sure...................................

See, I don't know if that's legal. This is who he is, nothing something he did. Compare it with the Michael Vick situation (which blew over in a short period of time, by the way), and the activism associated with that, and you see a distinction. Vick did cruel and unusual things because he chose to. Michael Sam is just living his life, hasn't done anything criminal, and isn't victimizing anyone or anything else. It's no one's business what his orientation is, and to base a hiring decision off of it can be considered discrimination.

 

JMO, not trying to start an argument or anything. I'm curious what the legal ramifications would be. 

[bestQBever]

Well, Sam would be an OLB in our system, and he has almost the same height/weight as Bjoern.  Could certainly be worth a look, since Mathis is getting older and Walden is only OK.  Sam is a good pass rusher.

I've heard that his mobility is bad so he can't cover well. So he'll be strictly limited to pass rushing on 3rd down or 2nd and long.

[buccolts]

I recently watched that too.  What he endured was pretty awful.  But he loved baseball and he persevered.

Hate is never ok

 

O.K., O.K., I really, REALLY dislike sweet potatoes.

[Warhawk]

I've heard that his mobility is bad so he can't cover well. So he'll be strictly limited to pass rushing on 3rd down or 2nd and long.

 

I'll reserve my judgment for the combine.  Werner ran a 4.81.  I think Sam is a 4.7-ish guy?  Plus he's been playing DE, we should give him time to see if he makes progress in terms of building a 3-4 OLB skill set.  The Senior Bowl is too early to draw conclusions about the possibility of guys switching positions.  Like I said, in terms of size he's fine as a 3-4 OLB with a pass rush focus.  I already mentioned he's around the same size as Werner; that's also around the same size as Suggs, Houston, Brooks, Ware, Spencer, Matthews, Smith, etc.  Seriously, almost every good 3-4 OLB in the NFL is between 6'2" and 6'4", and between 255 and 265 lbs.  Mathis is an anomaly at like 245-250.  So, Sam has prototypical 3-4 OLB size at 6'2" (I've heard 6'3" as well) and 260 lbs.  And even if Sam puts in a 4.7 40-time that's not bad.  That would be about the same as Brooks, Spencer, Matthews, Smith... really all those guys.  I mean, heck, I think Robert Mathis ran a 4.67.

 

Let's wait until Sam becomes more comfortable with what the 3-4 OLB position demands.  Physically, he clearly fits the mold of the position.

[bestQBever]

I'll reserve my judgment for the combine.  Werner ran a 4.81.  I think Sam is a 4.7-ish guy?  Plus he's been playing DE, we should give him time to see if he makes progress in terms of building a 3-4 OLB skill set.  The Senior Bowl is too early to draw conclusions about the possibility of guys switching positions.  Like I said, in terms of size he's fine as a 3-4 OLB with a pass rush focus.  I already mentioned he's around the same size as Werner; that's also around the same size as Suggs, Houston, Brooks, Ware, Spencer, Matthews, Smith, etc.  Seriously, almost every good 3-4 OLB in the NFL is between 6'2" and 6'4", and between 255 and 265 lbs.  Mathis is an anomaly at like 245-250.  So, Sam has prototypical 3-4 OLB size at 6'2" (I've heard 6'3" as well) and 260 lbs.  And even if Sam puts in a 4.7 40-time that's not bad.  That would be about the same as Brooks, Spencer, Matthews, Smith... really all those guys.  I mean, heck, I think Robert Mathis ran a 4.67.

 

Let's wait until Sam becomes more comfortable with what the 3-4 OLB position demands.  Physically, he clearly fits the mold of the position.

I think it comes down to his ability to stop the run. If he can stop the run better than dwight freeney ( not hard) or robert mathis then I wouldn't really mind the colts drafting him.

[AntonMcG]

I am delighted that he came out [mod edit]. However, anyone acting like this will not be an issue is kidding themselves, it shouldn't be, but it is.

 

Also, he is not that good. His numbers were inflated against weak opposition. 9 of his 11.5 sacks came in three games against putrid o-lines.

 

Average-to-below average players being the most polarizing figure on the team is never ever a good thing.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Superman

[sweetsurrender]

I am delighted that he came out, mainly cause it pisses conservatives off. However, anyone acting like this will not be an issue is kidding themselves, it shouldn't be, but it is.

 

Also, he is not that good. His numbers were inflated against weak opposition. 9 of his 11.5 sacks came in three games against putrid o-lines.

 

Average-to-below average players being the most polarizing figure on the team is never ever a good thing.

Yes. This has the potential of Tebow. A marginal player at best that received ridiculous media attention because of his off-field life. No team wants that type of national attention for an average player. The part I don't understand is why he felt he needed to come out before the draft yet when he was at Missouri it was handled internally with him telling his teammates in August before the season began. I think it would have been smarter for him to wait until after the draft and then tell his teammates as I am sure there are many players in the NFL that have done that at this point. At least then you give the team drafting you a chance to handle the media as they deem appropriate. This idea of shouting your sexual preference really rubs me the wrong way. 

[Warhawk]

BTW, just dug up this old article on support for gay athletes in the NFL, and thought it was kinda funny that half the players named in the lede are on the Colts.

 

http://www.outsports.com/2013/9/4/4692986/nfl-players-gay-supportive-list-andrew-luck-rgIII-reggie-wayne-charles-woodson

[GoPats]

To those pointing out that the NFL culture won't accept him and that he'll likely be "razzed" or harassed by other teams...

 

Don't you think Jackie Robinson faced the same situation, only on a much larger scale? I never saw "42" but have read some books... I mean, some of his teammates even refused to accept him. He wasn't allowed to stay at some team hotels. This was two decades before the Civil Rights movement. 

 

Of course there will be some ignorance in reaction to Sam's announcement, both on and off the field. There's no denying human nature. I'm sure Sam knows that, yet he has embraced his role as the "first."

 

I for one fully support what he's done and where he's going. 

[sweetsurrender]

To those pointing out that the NFL culture won't accept him and that he'll likely be "razzed" or harassed by other teams...

 

Don't you think Jackie Robinson faced the same situation, only on a much larger scale? I never saw "42" but have read some books... I mean, some of his teammates even refused to accept him. He wasn't allowed to stay at some team hotels. This was two decades before the Civil Rights movement. 

 

Of course there will be some ignorance in reaction to Sam's announcement, both on and off the field. There's no denying human nature. I'm sure Sam knows that, yet he has embraced his role as the "first."

 

I for one fully support what he's done and where he's going. 

Jackie was supremely talented though. This guy appears to be marginal at best. And it remains to be seen if Sam can handle all that Jackie endured. I did see the Jackie Robinson movie and although I am not sure how much of it was true to real life, it was brutal and not a movie I would watch again. I would hope that Sam would not have to endure all of that especially considering as a nation we are much more accepting of the gay lifestyle than America was of minorities back when Jackie came up.

 

One other thing. Jackie was a black man who could not conceal his race. In this instance Sam chose to reveal his sexuality. Something he was not forced or asked to do but he did so of his own will. So in some respects the harshness that he may face was much more his choice then what happened to Robinson.

[BOTT]

If Van Noy falls (I dont think he will) I'd rather have him, Now as far as other OLB's that are probably more realistic to get I'd take:

 

1.Adrian Hubbard(Not an elite pass rusher but does well against the run)

2.Jeremiah Attaochu

3.Carl Bradford

 

In various rounds before Sam....But I'd take Sam over Sidbury and Adongo

Marcus Smith > Adrian Hubbard

[Fx Stryker]

One other thing. Jackie was a black man who could not conceal his race. In this instance Sam chose to reveal his sexuality. Something he was not forced or asked to do but he did so of his own will. So in some respects the harshness that he may face was much more his choice then what happened to Robinson.

Sam came out because he doesn't want to go back to living a secret. It's nothing with being first or anything to that nature.

Like all his teammates said he was a happier person after he took the weight of his secret off his shoulders. He didn't want that again.

I applaud him. He had the courage to be the first. I would love for the Colts to draft him. He is a great player, and could fit nicely in a rotation. However I dont believe we have a fourth round selection.

[Gavin]

Marcus Smith > Adrian Hubbard

yeah add him to the list....Also I really like Boseko Lokombo out of Oregon

[GoPats]

Jackie was supremely talented though. This guy appears to be marginal at best. And it remains to be seen if Sam can handle all that Jackie endured. I did see the Jackie Robinson movie and although I am not sure how much of it was true to real life, it was brutal and not a movie I would watch again. I would hope that Sam would not have to endure all of that especially considering as a nation we are much more accepting of the gay lifestyle than America was of minorities back when Jackie came up.

 

One other thing. Jackie was a black man who could not conceal his race. In this instance Sam chose to reveal his sexuality. Something he was not forced or asked to do but he did so of his own will. So in some respects the harshness that he may face was much more his choice then what happened to Robinson.

 

Fair points, Robinson is the example that came immediately to mind... I get what you're saying though.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Sam is doing this so that others don't have to in the future. The NFL's first openly gay player would be an historic thing, but I think most of us hope that there's a day when a player's sexuality is not news-worthy at all, just like it wouldn't be news-worthy for an African American athlete to play baseball (in thanks, in part, to Robinson). 

[sweetsurrender]

Sam came out because he doesn't want to go back to living a secret. It's nothing with being first or anything to that nature.

Like all his teammates said he was a happier person after he took the weight of his secret off his shoulders. He didn't want that again.

I applaud him. He had the courage to be the first. I would love for the Colts to draft him. He is a great player, and could fit nicely in a rotation. However I dont believe we have a fourth round selection.

I didn't get the sense at all that he felt like he was living a secret. His family and friends knew and he also told his team in August. Not sure why he felt it was necessary to go to the media as most people see no reason to disclose their sexuality beyond their circle of influence. It really is nobody's business and I think he may have done himself a disservice in the long run because he took control away from the team that drafts him. I am sure every team would have preferred to keep it in house the way Missouri did in effort to not cause distractions.

 

I agree about him being a good talent. I do hope the Colts take a look at him as he seemed pretty good at rushing the QB. I think he will be there after the fourth round.

[Narcosys]

With how few picks we have.  We dont need to draft a Linebacker. 

[loudnproudcolt]

Sam is a quality person, and he has said he does not want to be a center of attention, he wants his football to talk for him. I also think that the generation he is coming from is much more comfortable with the subject of someone being gay. If he can help the team, that is the end of it. I agree though, a strong organization would be best for him, one that would not let it be a Tebow type of situation.

 

I think what speaks louder than any words is that Missouri had a chance at the national championship basically going into the last two games if memory serves. Why does this matter. Because Sam at a group building exercise in August came out and told everyone he was gay. Many already knew. So in this age of twitter, FB and instant everything until now we hear not one word of this. The whole team rallied around him, said nothing, and the team was incredible, and this is the SEC! Now I have heard that the certain members said things over the course of the season, but no surprise. The fact that it did not get out, and how they competed says all I need to know. I think that is the bigger story of how Sam is perceived.

[TMPHBITEU]

Seems I miss-clicked "post". Please delete.