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If he goes to the right locker room that has a good coach and veteran leaders it shouldn't be a problem. Everyone won't agree with his lifestyle but as i team mate you should respect him. 

 

This will effect his draft stock and he'll probably drop to the 5th round. He's a great pass rusher but isn't good in space as a OLB. 

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Some will and some won't. im Christian and believe everything in the Bible but i won't judge the guy until i met him, that's just how i was raised.   

 

Nonsense. Many will chose not to give respect to his behavior. Especially when he's put that behavior out front in their faces. And they have every right not to.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Some will and some won't. im Christian and believe everything in the Bible but i won't ju.....

What you would or wouldn't do/do or do not believe isn't the issue. You implied others have to respect him. That's incorrect. Nobody is under any legitimate compulsion to respect him.

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“I think it will be something that’s talked about on the field. I’ve heard things on the field that even I thought were questionable and even I thought went a little far. But it’s what some guys do. Guys read your bio, and speak of guys’ wives. We had the Steve Smith-Janoris Jenkins situation during the season. And so those things happen. Guys don’t pull punches when it comes to players on other teams.” -Steelers Safety Ryan Clark

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Of course, not everyone will respect him but as a team it's better for team chemistry if most did. As I said it's only a few locker rooms i think that could put up with it because of the media attention it would bring.

 

What you would or wouldn't do/do or do not believe isn't the issue. You implied others have to respect him. That's incorrect. Nobody is under any legitimate compulsion to respect him.

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Per PFT:

"Pete Thamel and Thayer Evans of SI.com spoke to eight NFL executives and coaches, none willing to put his or her name to their opinion of a man revealing part of his identity, on Sunday to find out how Sam’s choice to take that on will affect his position in the draft.

Because Sam had come out to his teammates already, one person Thamel and Evans spoke to said that 90 percent of teams already knew and had dropped Sam on their draft boards as a result. Others said that the NFL would be ready for an openly gay player “in the coming decade or two” and that being openly gay would “break a tie” with another player going before Sam. An NFL assistant said Sam’s move was not a smart one.

“You shouldn’t have to live your life in secrecy,” the assistant coach said, “but do you really want to be the top of the conversation for everything without ever having played a down in this league?”

Thamel and Evans also spoke to a scout who said Sam was overrated because he inflated his stats against inferior competition inside and outside the SEC and Peter King of TheMMQB.com spoke to a G.M. who thought Sam would go undrafted (and two who didn’t seem to think it was that big a deal), but the consensus seemed to be that the same player with a girlfriend or no public sign of sexual orientation would go higher than Sam will go in this year’s draft."

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Of course, not everyone will respect him but as a team it's better for team chemistry if most did. As I said it's only a few locker rooms i think that could put up with it because of the media attention it would bring.

Media attention won't be the issue in the locker room. These guys are surrounded by media attention. So that won't register a blip in the locker room. His behavior will.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Of course, not everyone will respect him....

There's a difference between showing him general respect and respecting how he chooses to behave. I'd like to see the former by his teammates (if he makes a team). But neither can be forced in any real & lasting way in an NFL locker room. Nor should it be. Others have just as much a right to disagree and behave accordingly. This isn't Nazi Germany.

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I am cornfused....Sam likes Sam, but can he play Sam LB?  Or does he like SPAM, Sam I am? :) OK....I will quit while I am behind.

 

Seriously, I want a player who actually plays the position for a change...not someone who has to learn a new position....see Werner.

:lol:  :funny:  lmao  Good one Brent! 

 

140833-Living_Books_-_Green_Eggs_and_Ham

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It was bold of him to come out long BEFORE the draft..

 

He's telling the entire NFL...'This is what I am and I'm comfortable with it...

 

Check yourselves and get back to me if you can use me'

 

 

He could have waited until AFTER he was drafted..but that would have been blindsiding the team involved..

 

Players will have religious objections to him but ...at work....they can/should be asked to shut up about it

 

Having thought about it and lessened to some sports talk people for 24 hours, I think -- on balance -- it was smart to come out now.     This way -- as you put it -- he won't be coming out after getting drafted and blind-siding the team that takes him.

 

This way,  the teams that want to either remove him from their board altogether, or drop him back a round or two,  can do so.   In essense,  they'll self-select.

 

Interested teams can interview Sams at the Combine and again before the draft.    The teams that are not bothered by this will have less competition for Sams.     I think it could be win-win.    The team will know how to handle it,  and Sams will have the peace of mind that the team that takes him knows what they're doing and is fine with it.

 

I think it's a wise decision.

 

I think Sam was the Right Guy at the Right Place at the Right Time.     At least,  that's my hope!    :thmup:

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Per PFT:

"Pete Thamel and Thayer Evans of SI.com spoke to eight NFL executives and coaches, none willing to put his or her name to their opinion of a man revealing part of his identity, on Sunday to find out how Sam’s choice to take that on will affect his position in the draft.

Because Sam had come out to his teammates already, one person Thamel and Evans spoke to said that 90 percent of teams already knew and had dropped Sam on their draft boards as a result. Others said that the NFL would be ready for an openly gay player “in the coming decade or two” and that being openly gay would “break a tie” with another player going before Sam. An NFL assistant said Sam’s move was not a smart one.

“You shouldn’t have to live your life in secrecy,” the assistant coach said, “but do you really want to be the top of the conversation for everything without ever having played a down in this league?”

Thamel and Evans also spoke to a scout who said Sam was overrated because he inflated his stats against inferior competition inside and outside the SEC and Peter King of TheMMQB.com spoke to a G.M. who thought Sam would go undrafted (and two who didn’t seem to think it was that big a deal), but the consensus seemed to be that the same player with a girlfriend or no public sign of sexual orientation would go higher than Sam will go in this year’s draft."

What did Bartles and Jaymes say?   :funny:

 

bartles_and_jaymes.jpg

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Having thought about it and lessened to some sports talk people for 24 hours, I think -- on balance -- it was smart to come out now.     This way -- as you put it -- he won't be coming out after getting drafted and blind-siding the team that takes him.

 

This way,  the teams that want to either remove him from their board altogether, or drop him back a round or two,  can do so.   In essense,  they'll self-select.

 

Interested teams can interview Sams at the Combine and again before the draft.    The teams that are not bothered by this will have less competition for Sams.     I think it could be win-win.    The team will know how to handle it,  and Sams will have the peace of mind that the team that takes him knows what they're doing and is fine with it.

 

I think it's a wise decision.

 

I think Sam was the Right Guy at the Right Place at the Right Time.     At least,  that's my hope!    :thmup:

 

After the way Jeff Ireland interviewed Dez Bryant a few years ago, I think teams know they have to be careful with the questions they ask in these Combine interviews. I don't know all the ins and outs, but at the very least, it's not really appropriate for these teams to talk to him about his sexual orientation. Talking about his decision to do media and all that is one thing, and I'm sure the topic will come up, but they have to exercise a certain level of discretion and judgment.

 

I'm not sure it will be that big of a deal. The Manti Te'o issue was a lot more troubling, IMO, and the Chargers spent a second rounder on him. From what we know, there were no locker room issues or anything like that. I know it's different, but the questions about Te'o's sexuality existed, and there was the possibility for distraction. The Chargers didn't make him available for media more than the bare minimum, and eventually the story just went away. 

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Hopefully that's the end result of all this.

 

I agree that it should be a non-issue, but the people complaining about this story on that basis are kinda ignoring that, the fact is, we've never had a gay NFL player who did not feel compelled, for one reason or another, to keep it a secret.  Maybe not from friends, and rumors can get around, but the point is, you can't just jump from a state of complete denial to one where it legitimately doesn't make a difference and thus is a non-story without an intermediate period where a player announcing, basically, "I'm gay, so deal with it" is a story.

 

So for people complaining about this being a story - that's the POINT.  This is a story so that the NEXT time a guy does this it WON'T be a story.  It's a big deal, because it will result in it NOT being a big deal for others in the future.  I mean, there was only one Jackie Robinson.  That he was a black baseball player mattered, and the most important way it mattered was that it made the race of other players after him NOT matter.  That's the point of this, too.

 

There's a difference between keeping something a secret and choosing not to publicize it. In this case, his Missouri teammates and coaches knew, several media members knew, pro teams at the Senior Bowl knew, etc. At least that's what the ESPN guy who did the interview has said. So it wasn't really a secret.

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Sad that in 2014 this still has to be discussed as a possible issue.  One "positive" I see is that if the Colts are considering Sam (and I don't watch college football at all so I have no idea how good this guy is) and other teams are using this as a reason to knock him down/off their draft board, it could allow us to get excellent value.  There's a lot more I'd like to say about any team that knocks him off their draft board because of this, but this isn't the forum for such discussions.  If Sam fits a need and is the BPA for that need, I certainly hope we draft him.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

What I take serious issue with, is those who call people "ignorant" or whatever other name they come up with if they do not agree with his lifestyle. Why is it that supposedly people who are so open minded and think this is great have such a problem with those that don't agree with it. Talk about the epitome of hypocrisy, please do not claim to be so open minded and then call others ignorant for not agreeing with it. That isn't open mindedness, that is doing exactly what you claim others are being...ignorant. 

 

Ignorance has absolutely nothing to do with it, it has to do with upbringing and religious beliefs. Who raised you and where you were raised. For the record, I was brought up to not accept homosexuality, my family aren't bad or ignorant people at all...it is the way they believe and there is nothing wrong with it. They do not go around using gay slurs but if asked the direct question they will openly tell you they do not agree with it but what people do behind closed doors is their business.

 

I happen to feel the same way. I do not understand it and never will, I do think some people are born that way but I also believe many choose to have this lifestyle because I do think it has become a popularity fad. Sorry, but if this is considered a "birth defect" as I have heard many gay people say, I have a hard time believing that it is so prevalent in society. Can you honestly say you know 3 or 4 people out of 10 that have hairlips, down syndrome, club foot, or whatever?

 

Birth defects just aren't that common for so many to be afflicted with homosexuality. So as I said, I do believe many are born this way and have no choice in their sexual orientation. I will not ever use harsh language towards gay people and I do not think anybody else should either, but just because I do not understand why so many people have came out as gay, doesn't mean I'm wrong in my thinking. I would have no problem if the Colts did draft this kid as long as he can play, but I also do not want his sexual preferance shoved in my face all the time either.

 

I'm just injecting a little honesty into this conversation, I know some people will have a problem with it and that's fine, it doesn't make them wrong and it don't make me wrong.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Are you allowed to do that? Isn't honesty labeled bigotry by the Borg. Groupthink is a requirement, right?

 

 

 

Unfortunately, you're right. It's a sad world we live in when one is just being honest but gets labeled as a bigot, racist, or whatever by the "holier than thou" crowd. I would guarantee that some of the people that claim to be so open minded and accepting have at one time in their lives used gay slurs, racial epitaphs, or what have you. At least those who are honest in their beliefs have the stones to admit it instead of hiding amongst the PC crowd.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

What I take serious issue with, is those who call people "ignorant" or whatever other name they come up with if they do not agree with his lifestyle. Why is it that supposedly people who are so open minded and think this is great have such a problem with those that don't agree with it. Talk about the epitome of hypocrisy, please do not claim to be so open minded and then call others ignorant for not agreeing with it. That isn't open mindedness, that is doing exactly what you claim others are being...ignorant. 

 

Ignorance has absolutely nothing to do with it, it has to do with upbringing and religious beliefs. Who raised you and where you were raised. For the record, I was brought up to not accept homosexuality, my family aren't bad or ignorant people at all...it is the way they believe and there is nothing wrong with it. They do not go around using gay slurs but if asked the direct question they will openly tell you they do not agree with it but what people do behind closed doors is their business.

 

I happen to feel the same way. I do not understand it and never will, I do think some people are born that way but I also believe many choose to have this lifestyle because I do think it has become a popularity fad. Sorry, but if this is considered a "birth defect" as I have heard many gay people say, I have a hard time believing that it is so prevalent in society. Can you honestly say you know 3 or 4 people out of 10 that have hairlips, down syndrome, club foot, or whatever?

 

Birth defects just aren't that common for so many to be afflicted with homosexuality. So as I said, I do believe many are born this way and have no choice in their sexual orientation. I will not ever use harsh language towards gay people and I do not think anybody else should either, but just because I do not understand why so many people have came out as gay, doesn't mean I'm wrong in my thinking. I would have no problem if the Colts did draft this kid as long as he can play, but I also do not want his sexual preferance shoved in my face all the time either.

 

I'm just injecting a little honesty into this conversation, I know some people will have a problem with it and that's fine, it doesn't make them wrong and it don't make me wrong.

I appreciate the honesty buddy!  Nothing wrong with stating your point and giving the reasons.

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Wow, what a brave move by Michael Sam but I fear he will have a tough time on the field. I wouldn't mind if the Colts draft him as long as he can produce on the turf. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, it's as natural as being straight and it's not a lifestyle that somebody choose out of curiosity or tediousness. I grew up and live in one of the most conservative parts of my country, raised as roman catholic who left the church with 14 years. I'm straight but I absolutely have no problem with equal rights for homosexuals. It won't be a big issue in the locker room if the guys act like grown and intelligent men. It's not like he is going to rape someone under the shower, chances are high they already showered and spent time together with some gay people and you all probably have too. It's not a big deal only stupid people make it that. 

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

 do think some people are born that way but I also believe many choose to have this lifestyle because I do think it has become a popularity fad. 

 

Oh god.....

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

What I take serious issue with, is those who call people "ignorant" or whatever other name they come up with if they do not agree with his lifestyle. Why is it that supposedly people who are so open minded and think this is great have such a problem with those that don't agree with it. Talk about the epitome of hypocrisy, please do not claim to be so open minded and then call others ignorant for not agreeing with it. That isn't open mindedness, that is doing exactly what you claim others are being...ignorant. 

 

Ignorance has absolutely nothing to do with it, it has to do with upbringing and religious beliefs. Who raised you and where you were raised. For the record, I was brought up to not accept homosexuality, my family aren't bad or ignorant people at all...it is the way they believe and there is nothing wrong with it. They do not go around using gay slurs but if asked the direct question they will openly tell you they do not agree with it but what people do behind closed doors is their business.

 

I happen to feel the same way. I do not understand it and never will, I do think some people are born that way but I also believe many choose to have this lifestyle because I do think it has become a popularity fad. Sorry, but if this is considered a "birth defect" as I have heard many gay people say, I have a hard time believing that it is so prevalent in society. Can you honestly say you know 3 or 4 people out of 10 that have hairlips, down syndrome, club foot, or whatever?

 

Birth defects just aren't that common for so many to be afflicted with homosexuality. So as I said, I do believe many are born this way and have no choice in their sexual orientation. I will not ever use harsh language towards gay people and I do not think anybody else should either, but just because I do not understand why so many people have came out as gay, doesn't mean I'm wrong in my thinking. I would have no problem if the Colts did draft this kid as long as he can play, but I also do not want his sexual preferance shoved in my face all the time either.

 

I'm just injecting a little honesty into this conversation, I know some people will have a problem with it and that's fine, it doesn't make them wrong and it don't make me wrong.

Just so ya know, an estimated 2-3% of the population is homosexual and an estimated 2% of the worlds population is born with Down's syndrome. 

I like that your bold enough to state your honest opinion on here. Always like your posts. 

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political
Hidden by Nadine, February 10, 2014 - off topic / political

Wow, what a brave move by Michael Sam but I fear he will have a tough time on the field. I wouldn't mind if the Colts draft him as long as he can produce on the turf. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, it's as natural as being straight and it's not a lifestyle that somebody choose out of curiosity or tediousness. I grew up and live in one of the most conservative parts of my country, raised as roman catholic who left the church with 14 years. I'm straight but I absolutely have no problem with equal rights for homosexuals. It won't be a big issue in the locker room if the guys act like grown and intelligent men. It's not like he is going to rape someone under the shower, chances are high they already showered and spent time together with some gay people and you all probably have too. It's not a big deal only stupid people make it that.

Very unfortunate statement chock full of presumptions & assumptions.

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Just so ya know, an estimated 2-3% of the population is homosexual and an estimated 2% of the worlds population is born with Down's syndrome.

I like that your bold enough to state your honest opinion on here. Always like your posts.

I had heard numbers of 3 out of every 10 people are gay. Don't have any idea how true this is but just what I had heard.

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Posted · Hidden by B-B, February 10, 2014 - Personal Shot, calling someone Naive
Hidden by B-B, February 10, 2014 - Personal Shot, calling someone Naive

Oh god.....

You don't have to believe it but I have had 1 guy admit to me that he pretends to be gay because of the attention he received from it. If you don't want to believe that there are many more just like him then go ahead and continue to be naive. Many people in this country are.

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After the way Jeff Ireland interviewed Dez Bryant a few years ago, I think teams know they have to be careful with the questions they ask in these Combine interviews. I don't know all the ins and outs, but at the very least, it's not really appropriate for these teams to talk to him about his sexual orientation. Talking about his decision to do media and all that is one thing, and I'm sure the topic will come up, but they have to exercise a certain level of discretion and judgment.

 

I'm not sure it will be that big of a deal. The Manti Te'o issue was a lot more troubling, IMO, and the Chargers spent a second rounder on him. From what we know, there were no locker room issues or anything like that. I know it's different, but the questions about Te'o's sexuality existed, and there was the possibility for distraction. The Chargers didn't make him available for media more than the bare minimum, and eventually the story just went away. 

I was thinking of Teo as well. Chargers did an excellent job but I think Teo's was just a bad situation that he wanted to go away. With Sam, he is speaking about something he is proud of. So much may depend on how much he wants to talk about it.

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Posted · Hidden by B-B, February 10, 2014 - Personal Shot, calling someone Ignorant
Hidden by B-B, February 10, 2014 - Personal Shot, calling someone Ignorant

You don't have to believe it but I have had 1 guy admit to me that he pretends to be gay because of the attention he received from it. If you don't want to believe that there are many more just like him then go ahead and continue to be naive. Many people in this country are.

 

Calm down bud.

 

You're entitled to your ignorant opinion just like i'm entitled to my "naive" one.

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After the way Jeff Ireland interviewed Dez Bryant a few years ago, I think teams know they have to be careful with the questions they ask in these Combine interviews. I don't know all the ins and outs, but at the very least, it's not really appropriate for these teams to talk to him about his sexual orientation. Talking about his decision to do media and all that is one thing, and I'm sure the topic will come up, but they have to exercise a certain level of discretion and judgment.

 

I'm not sure it will be that big of a deal. The Manti Te'o issue was a lot more troubling, IMO, and the Chargers spent a second rounder on him. From what we know, there were no locker room issues or anything like that. I know it's different, but the questions about Te'o's sexuality existed, and there was the possibility for distraction. The Chargers didn't make him available for media more than the bare minimum, and eventually the story just went away. 

You mean a GM accusing Dez Byrant's mother of being a prostitute is not proper form anymore? Only teasing!  It's nice to know that the NFL can adapt & evolve for the better too & learn from it's mistakes. Yes, sexual orientation is no employer's business. Just as long as your on the field production does not suffer or diminish significantly because of it.

 

What a person does in the privacy of their own home is none of my business or the NFL's business for that matter. I concur completely Superman. 

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haha that's a terrible "estimate". I hope in the future that you inform whoever said this to you of the truth.

Believe it or not, I think I had heard that from some tv show. I thought it sounded awful high but im not tuned into the gay community so I had no idea. It does seem like there have been a bunch of people come out over the last 10 yrs. or so. Like I said before, I wasn't raised to accept it but what people do in the privacy of their own home isn't my business.

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Btw re:Gavin. I saw in the previous thread that you suggested that he'd fit better as a DE in the 43.

 

Everywhere I look has him projected as an OLB in a 34. What makes you think he'd be a strict DE?

Im not sure he is only a strict 4-3 but he doesn't have much if any experience as an OLB and I question his ability to flip his hips in space  and drop back....Not that he cant drop back but he wasn't asked to do that much at all in college, as a situational pass rusher I think he would do fine in our defense......Not in containment however....at least still he added some strength....For what its worth however I think he shows more hip flexability then Werner did coming out and we ended up drafting Werner...Then again Werner I think was stronger coming out

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Im not sure he is only a strict 4-3 but he doesn't have much if any experience as an OLB and I question his ability to flip his hips in space  and drop back....Not that he cant drop back but he wasn't asked to do that much at all in college, as a situational pass rusher I think he would do fine in our defense......Not in containment however....at least still he added some strength....For what its worth however I think he shows more hip flexability then Werner did coming out and we ended up drafting Werner...Then again Werner I think was stronger coming out

 

Those same things go for Mathis tho. If we were to draft him, he would be a fit for playing Rush LB where he doesn't have to worry about either of those things (Mathis doesn't drop in coverage or contain).

 

But if we were to draft him, I don't think the staff would try to shoehorn him into playing Sam LB.

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You mean a GM accusing Dez Byrant's mother of being a prostitute is not proper form anymore? Only teasing!  It's nice to know that the NFL can adapt & evolve for the better too & learn from it's mistakes. Yes, sexual orientation is no employer's business. Just as long as your on the field production does not suffer or diminish significantly because of it.

 

What a person does in the privacy of their own home is none of my business or the NFL's business for that matter. I concur completely Superman. 

 

It's no different that asking a potential employee about the type of people they date, whether they live with someone they're not married to, etc. Your own personal beliefs, morals, judgments, etc., are really not appropriate topics of conversation on a job interview. The NFL used to sort of operate outside of normal guidelines with this kind of stuff, but more and more, they're having to fall in line with the whole "workplace environment" thing. And not just on sexual orientation, but personal history, family history, etc. The Dez Bryant situation made that very clear, and the Incognito/Martin thing will probably influence more change in the near future.

 

Bottom line, if you refuse someone a chance at employment on the basis of sexual orientation, it's discrimination. That includes your organization's supposed desire to avoid the potential distraction that might come with having a gay player or employee. The NFL player selection process is a little different, but if teams make a big deal about not wanting someone who has come out as gay, they are inviting legal scrutiny. 

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