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If Brady wins the Super Bowl will it be considered more impressive then when he won his first in 2001?


amfootball

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ok we're on the same page now. Bear in mind I put a lot of stock in a QB game manager :)

Gotcha...no worries...it wasn't exactly Trent Dilfer performance where you try not to screw it up but I would not have put it as a masterpiece or impressive....however he has had a couple impressive SB performances....it wasn't like Joe Montana vs Broncos or Steve Young vs Chargers...thats all...and I think to get NE over the top this year...its going to take some impressive play by Brady to do it.

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If the Patriots somehow win the SB it will take two things:

 

1. Improvement on defense similar to what Indy had in their SB run.

2. Continued success/production with the running game.

 

I don't think the Patriots are going to roll through the playoffs with Brady throwing for 350 yards and 3 TDs a game. They couldn't do it when they had the weapons, so nothing indicates to me that they could do that now.

 

So, if they do manage to win it all, it will take a team effort all-around. And with that being the case, Brady will lead the way but will need some help. 

 

All that said, given what they've dealt with in the past year, it would be a pretty impressive feat. Going to six Super Bowls would be a record, and winning four of them would put him in pretty exclusive company. 

I agree GoPats. In order to have an shot at winning it all this year, NE must rely heavily on the ground game, which has really impressed me this year. I keep thinking back to something JM51 said many blogs ago: Wilfork down & Mayo down are just tremendous pieces that cannot be replaced. Look, I have tremendous respect for Brady, but you can't expect to throw for 4 TDs every game. His D has got to stop somebody occasionally.  I do appreciate Brady methodical patience though. He knows what his offense can do & what his defense can't right now. 

 

Are the Patriots good enough to get to the SB? Look man, I never doubt the brilliance of Brady & Bellichick anymore, but when your defense is missing a premier DT & LB, you can't hide that weakness especially in the Playoffs. If Mayo & Wilfork were healthy, NE would scare the crap out of me actually. But, since they are not, your D just isn't the same. I'm not slamming your squad BTW; I just have profound respect for those 2 stud athletes. 

 

If Brady pulls this off with a 4th ring, this feat will topple 2000 easily simply because your defense is severely diminished right now. JMO. 

 

TBH I'm kind of hoping that the Chargers get knocked off by the Bengals this week because Philip Rivers is balling right now & why did BB let RB Danny Woodhead go? I never would have done that. Not an indictment against Bill; it just stunned & shocked the hades out of me that's all. 

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I agree GoPats. In order to have an shot at winning it all this year, NE must rely heavily on the ground game, which has really impressed me this year. I keep thinking back to something JM51 said many blogs ago: Wilfork down & Mayo down are just tremendous pieces that cannot be replaced. Look, I have tremendous respect for Brady, but you can't expect to throw for 4 TDs every game. His D has got to stop somebody occasionally.  I do appreciate Brady methodical patience though. He knows what his offense can do & what his defense can't right now. 

 

Are the Patriots good enough to get to the SB? Look man, I never doubt the brilliance of Brady & Bellichick anymore, but when your defense is missing a premier DT & LB, you can't hide that weakness especially in the Playoffs. If Mayo & Wilfork were healthy, NE would scare the crap out of me actually. But, since they are not, your D just isn't the same. I'm not slamming your squad BTW; I just have profound respect for those 2 stud athletes. 

 

If Brady pulls this off with a 4th ring, this feat will topple 2000 easily simply because your defense is severely diminished right now. JMO. 

 

TBH I'm kind of hoping that the Chargers get knocked off by the Bengals this week because Philip Rivers is balling right now & why did BB let RB Danny Woodhead go? I never would have done that. Not an indictment against Bill; it just stunned & shocked the hades out of me that's all. 

Sealver Siliga has stopped the bleeding.

 

Woodhead was part of a logjam at running back. Vereen, Ridley and Bolden were younger and cheaper.

 

Nothing can compare with 2001 Brady. That was not a super bowl team in the preseason. They came out of nowhere to beat the "Greatest Show on Turf". I was just hoping the Rams wouldn't beat us as bad as the Bears did in 1985.

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Sealver Siliga has stopped the bleeding.

 

Woodhead was part of a logjam at running back. Vereen, Ridley and Bolden were younger and cheaper.

 

Nothing can compare with 2001 Brady. That was not a super bowl team in the preseason. They came out of nowhere to beat the "Greatest Show on Turf". I was just hoping the Rams wouldn't beat us as bad as the Bears did in 1985.

I hear ya FE. Bill doesn't overpay for anyone. Not Randy Moss & not Danny Woodhead either. Danny is so good though: Small, low center of gravity, & he doesn't fumble like Ridley has been known to do so. Yeah, NE was the sleeper team that killed Marshal Faulk in 2001 & no one outside of Boston saw that coming. I sure as hades didn't. But it was cool to see NE win following the 911 tragedy though Patriots & all. 

 

I realize that the 1st SB will always be a precious one, but with Hernandez going to prison for murder & Gronk out, if NE wins going from a TE driven offense to an exclusive ground attack, that will be more shocking because an established offense completely changed their bread & butter ariel scheme & they still managed to emerge Champions IMO. 

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I hear ya FE. Bill doesn't overpay for anyone. Not Randy Moss & not Danny Woodhead either. Danny is so good though: Small, low center of gravity, & he doesn't fumble like Ridley has been known to do so. Yeah, NE was the sleeper team that killed Marshal Faulk in 2001 & no one outside of Boston saw that coming. I sure as hades didn't. But it was cool to see NE win following the 911 tragedy though Patriots & all. 

 

I realize that the 1st SB will always be a precious one, but with Hernandez going to prison for murder & Gronk out, if NE wins going from a TE driven offense to an exclusive ground attack, that will be more shocking because an established offense completely changed their bread & butter ariel scheme & they still managed to emerge Champions IMO. 

I agree, Woodhead is very good. He was missed when Vereen got hurt.

 

If the Patriots win the super bowl without starters Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Sebastian Vollmer, Vince Wilfork, Tommy Kelly and Jerod Mayo, it would be nothing short of amazing.

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Nothing will ever top that first Super Bowl in 2001.  That was a magical season, I still remember being with a huge group of friends and family and just running around the house when Adam V kicked that field goal.  What an amazing feeling!  No one had the Patriots winning that game, even John Madden was saying how Brady and the offense should just kneel and play for overtime, but instead they drove down the field and won the game against the "Greatest Show on Turf"

 

"Tonight, a dynasty is born baby!" - Ricky Proehl.

 

He was correct ;)

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Nothing will ever top that first Super Bowl in 2001.  That was a magical season, I still remember being with a huge group of friends and family and just running around the house when Adam V kicked that field goal.  What an amazing feeling!  No one had the Patriots winning that game, even John Madden was saying how Brady and the offense should just kneel and play for overtime, but instead they drove down the field and won the game against the "Greatest Show on Turf"

 

"Tonight, a dynasty is born baby!" - Ricky Proehl.

 

He was correct ;)

 

 

That's what I remember most about that game Coach Madden going on & on about how not going to OT was a mistake & then the next thing I knew Patriotic confetti was dropping. 
 
I think Madden was just dumbfounded. Whenever he can't rave about Brett Favre or the 1990's Dallas Cowboys, John gets flustered, confused, & thinks he is in a "tough actin tinactin" TV commercial. Just Kidding! 
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I agree, Woodhead is very good. He was missed when Vereen got hurt.

 

If the Patriots win the super bowl without starters Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Sebastian Vollmer, Vince Wilfork, Tommy Kelly and Jerod Mayo, it would be nothing short of amazing.

You know FE...If you asked me to encapsulate what I envy about your franchise the most, it would be this: How in the world does the Grey Hoodie draft so well every darn season? It's a thing of beauty man. BB moves up, BB moves down, BB trades good players with 1-2 competitive seasons left, accumulating draft picks from those trades, & still your team game victories usually amounts to 12 wins & another division title...Ho Hum...just another day at the office.

 

That's what I would want to learn most from BB: Film study & how dissects players in the same room. What they suck at...What they excel at....& how to get the most out of them. Reading about BB in books & watching him LIVE are 2 entirely different things. It's like reading about the Sistine Chapel vs seeing it 1st hand in person. 

 

I just marvel at how well your club keeps kicking butt no matter what. LOL! I know; I know a master never reveals their secrets.  haha SW1 will just admire your organization silently from afar. Just promise me that you will never share your winning ways with Dallas okay. Thanks. 

 

I still remember BB as the DC for the NY Giants under Bill Parcells & I knew he was gonna be a smashing success no matter where he went. Cleveland's loss was New England's gain. Also, I have to give Robert Kraft a ton of credit for letting BB coach with no meddling from the front office. Kraft knows where not to stick his nose & he trusts the staff here hires going all the way back to Bill Parcells & Pete Carroll. Years before BB took over the main HC reigns. I really respect that.

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People on this Colts site probably have a hard time understanding why I respect the Patriots organization so much. In 1 word: Longevity.

 

I still love my Colts, but my admiration for the Patriots isn't very far behind either.

 

Besides, if I ever get banished from here, I am pretty confident NE fans would accept me into the fold without too much backlash anyway. I can seek asylum in Massachusetts if necessary. LOL! 

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You know FE...If you asked me to encapsulate what I envy about your franchise the most, it would be this: How in the world does the Grey Hoodie draft so well every darn season? It's a thing of beauty man. BB moves up, BB moves down, BB trades good players with 1-2 competitive seasons left, accumulating draft picks from those trades, & still your team game victories usually amounts to 12 wins & another division title...Ho Hum...just another day at the office.

That's what I would want to learn most from BB: Film study & how dissects players in the same room. What they suck at...What they excel at....& how to get the most out of them. Reading about BB in books & watching him LIVE are 2 entirely different things. It's like reading about the Sistine Chapel vs seeing it 1st hand in person.

I just marvel at how well your club keeps kicking butt no matter what. LOL! I know; I know a master never reveals their secrets. haha SW1 will just admire your organization silently from afar. Just promise me that you will never share your winning ways with Dallas okay. Thanks.

I still remember BB as the DC for the NY Giants under Bill Parcells & I knew he was gonna be a smashing success no matter where he went. Cleveland's loss was New England's gain. Also, I have to give Robert Kraft a ton of credit for letting BB coach with no meddling from the front office. Kraft knows where not to stick his nose & he trusts the staff here hires going all the way back to Bill Parcells & Pete Carroll. Years before BB took over the main HC reigns. I really respect that.

Many people including their very own fans belittle the amount of success the Patriots have had to a large part to Brady while completely forgetting about the brilliance of BB. My respect for him is beyond compare.

Honestly how many teams can say that they lose their star DT and how many pieces on that D? AND STILL not give up 35 points to ANYONE... Unbelievable

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People on this Colts site probably have a hard time understanding why I respect the Patriots organization so much. In 1 word: Longevity.

 

I still love my Colts, but my admiration for the Patriots isn't very far behind either.

 

Besides, if I ever get banished from here, I am pretty confident NE fans would accept me into the fold without too much backlash anyway. I can seek asylum in Massachusetts if necessary. LOL! 

You are always welcome on any Pats site SW. :thmup:

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Many people including their very own fans belittle the amount of success the Patriots have had to a large part to Brady while completely forgetting about the brilliance of BB. My respect for him is beyond compare.

Honestly how many teams can say that they lose their star DT and how many pieces on that D? AND STILL not give up 35 points to ANYONE... Unbelievable

I am not sure who you are referencing but most Pats fans understand BB is probably going to go down as the best HC in the history of the game. No one takes BB for granted especially after witnessing this year BUT a coach never plays a down. In the end, the players have to go out and perform and Brady does that better then anyone. Really their relationship is unique in that Brady is like Bill on the field and both have an unbelievable desire to win and compete.

 

As I have said many times on this site, I hope Bill gives us the chance to see him coach post Brady whether he remains in NE or elsewhere. We know what type of HC he was before Brady - sub .500 and one playoff appearance in six seasons. Would be fascinating to see how he fairs after Brady.

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I don't see and don't believe the Patriots will win the super bowl this year.  Nope!  They just don't have that overall complete team like what the 49ers or Saints have.  I think the aggressiveness of the Seahawks who have a better defense than the Giants had in the the two super bowls they beat the Pats would be too much for the Patriots.  I think the Panthers can beat the Patriots in the SB and they already did earlier in the year.

 

I think the 49ers, Saints and Seahawks would beat the Patriots.  Pats beat the Saints earlier in the season but I think the Saints have gotten better since and that was in NE and not on a neutral field.

 

 

Look at all these teams in the post season.  They all have mobile QB's who can run for fist downs except Brady.  I do think and see a trend emerging as the NFL will continue to bring in more mobile QB's who can not only throw but can run.  And yes, Peyton is more mobile than Brady.

 

Now just watch, I'm going to be attacked by Patriots fans: "What are you talking about?  Brady is mobile, he's got great feet!"  lol

 

Some Patriots fans don't seem to understand the difference between actually running for a first down to keep the drive going vs happy feet in the pocket.

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I don't see and don't believe the Patriots will win the super bowl this year.  Nope!  They just don't have that overall complete team like what the 49ers or Saints have.  I think the aggressiveness of the Seahawks who have a better defense than the Giants had in the the two super bowls they beat the Pats would be too much for the Patriots.  I think the Panthers can beat the Patriots in the SB and they already did earlier in the year.

 

I think the 49ers, Saints and Seahawks would beat the Patriots.  Pats beat the Saints earlier in the season but I think the Saints have gotten better since and that was in NE and not on a neutral field.

 

 

Look at all these teams in the post season.  They all have mobile QB's who can run for fist downs except Brady.  I do think and see a trend emerging as the NFL will continue to bring in more mobile QB's who can not only throw but can run.  And yes, Peyton is more mobile than Brady.

 

Now just watch, I'm going to be attacked by Patriots fans: "What are you talking about?  Brady is mobile, he's got great feet!"  lol

 

Some Patriots fans don't seem to understand the difference between actually running for a first down to keep the drive going vs happy feet in the pocket.

When Steve Young took over for Joe Montana, the era of strictly pocket passers was supposedly over. Guess what?  Pocket passers are still winning all the Super Bowls.

Peyton is more mobile than Tom? lmao

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I keep thinking about this scenario and I don't think anything tops 2001/2002 but this season would come close and perhaps even further Brady's legacy of doing a lot with little offensive talent not to mention the injuries.

 

Thoughts?

That's a long way to go! Let him beat Colts and the win AFC then win the Super Bowl!

I'm a Pat fan,there is a better chance of Luck beating Brady then beating Manning! That could possibly happen!

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I keep thinking about this scenario and I don't think anything tops 2001/2002 but this season would come close and perhaps even further Brady's legacy of doing a lot with little offensive talent not to mention the injuries.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Will Cecil B Demille be directing the video ?  :thmup: :thmup:   This legacy  will be greatly enjoyed by all Colts fans as the beginning of a new era when the Colts & our 12 come home with a win

 

camera-460x307.jpg

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Yes, because he was a passenger in 2001.

 

you do remember that when he became a starter the team with BB was 5-13 to that point with a franchise QB . . . he not only beat out the franchise QB for his job later in the year, the team went 11-3 with him as a starter . . . that train he was riding on before he got on was not the best . . .

 

Was he 100% the reason of coarse not, but the pats got a lot farther than many think they would of gone with a back up coming in the season to replace the franchise QB . . . for the most part teams do not fair very well when a back up comes into the game, much less win the division and get a playoff bye . . . then go on to win a SB . . . in fact if my memory servers me correctly only the 1999 Rams (Warner) and 1990 Giants (Hostetler) won a SB with a QB who was not the starter at the beginning of the season . . . true Bledsoe came in the to help out in the AFCCG, but his replacement was not due to merit but an injury . . .

 

No Brady was not 100% the reason why we won in 2001, but from where our fan base, and most football fans, thought we would end up after Mo Lewis took out Bledsoe, it was an unexpected and impressive season not the less . . .

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16-27 145 yards 1 TD, impressive

 

no not the best and not really all  that impressive . . . but he did what he had to due to win the SB and had the late drive with only a minute and change left on the clock . . . but number wise not that impressive, agreed . . . but then again I agree that Joe Montana's numbers in his first SB, SB16, were not that impressive either . . . : 14-22, 157 yards, 1 TD, not that far off from Brady's first SB numbers . . . but most wont take that away from Montana . . .

 

Also, I think AM was asking about the entire season as a body of work as opposed to just the final game . . . to this point I made some points in the prior post and my next one . . .

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as for which would be more impressive between 2001 and 2013 it will be a tough choice . . . it might depend on who we play and how we play . . .

 

but for what is in the books for the regular season I would say that 2013 was a tad more impressive . . .  without getting into a long discussion one could argue that the two teams are a wash talent wise, but this year Brady did in fact help get them to a 12-4 record and in the 4 losses the team was in the game late and in three of them (mia, cinn, and Car) the team was in position to win the game . . .  and in the Jet game had them stopped in OT but for a penalty, which although was correct, is one that has not been called before or since and was missed against the KC/SD game . . . so 12-4 and close in the 4 looses, I would put that ahead of 2001 . . . 

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A Pro Bowl passenger?

 

 

no not the best and not really all  that impressive . . . but he did what he had to due to win the SB and had the late drive with only a minute and change left on the clock . . . but number wise not that impressive, agreed . . . but then again I agree that Joe Montana's numbers in his first SB, SB16, were not that impressive either . . . : 14-22, 157 yards, 1 TD, not that far off from Brady's first SB numbers . . . but most wont take that away from Montana . . .

 

Also, I think AM was asking about the entire season as a body of work as opposed to just the final game . . . to this point I made some points in the prior post and my next one . . .

 

I have watched every game of the Patriots 2001 season, and trying to convince me that Brady was the main reason they won the Super Bowl is downright absurd. Too many people talk about football without watching it, I suggest everyone go back and watch an great TEAM making a fairytale run. Brady made plays, but he was not relied upon.

 

Again, I watched it all, no justification you attempt to throw at me will convince me otherwise.

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NFL.com just posted this on their facebook page hehe, its a quote from Ike Taylor when he was on Dave Dameshek's podcast.

Here's a link to the podcast:  http://davedameshek.nfl.com/2014/01/06/ddfp-221-wild-card-recap-ike-taylor/?campaign=Facebook_podcast_dameshek

 

 

The GOAT! tehehe ;)

 

 

 

"Tom Brady makes receivers…Peyton be [working with] some Hall of Fame receivers."
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I have watched every game of the Patriots 2001 season, and trying to convince me that Brady was the main reason they won the Super Bowl is downright absurd. Too many people talk about football without watching it, I suggest everyone go back and watch an great TEAM making a fairytale run. Brady made plays, but he was not relied upon.

 

Again, I watched it all, no justification you attempt to throw at me will convince me otherwise.

I would agree. The reins were tight on the young Brady which was a good coaching job. But you could see great things were ahead for Brady. That was a very good and likable TEAM. Brady's winning drive was very impressive as well. Having the greatest FG kicker in history didn't hurt that team either but Colts fans also know that.

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I would agree. The reins were tight on the young Brady which was a good coaching job. But you could see great things were ahead for Brady. That was a very good and likable TEAM. Brady's winning drive was very impressive as well. Having the greatest FG kicker in history didn't hurt that team either but Colts fans also know that.

 

Agreed, and by no means am I saying that you could not see a lot of talent in Brady, he was young afterall.

 

To me it would be comparable to the Seahawks winning last year. A loaded team with a very talented young QB. Yes, he made plays and made them a better team, but he was not the catalyst.

 

AMFootball's inital question was "would winning the Super Bowl this year be a more impressive win for Brady?"... of course it would, he is now the main reason they win or lose, in 2001 he wasn't.

 

If you were to ask me if this would be a more impressive Super Bowl for the Patriots, as a team, to win... then no, 2001 was obviously a year when all the pieces came together to to form a complete all-round team.

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I have watched every game of the Patriots 2001 season, and trying to convince me that Brady was the main reason they won the Super Bowl is downright absurd. Too many people talk about football without watching it, I suggest everyone go back and watch an great TEAM making a fairytale run. Brady made plays, but he was not relied upon.

 

Again, I watched it all, no justification you attempt to throw at me will convince me otherwise.

To the bolded - no one is arguing that but to call him a passenger is also an injustice and absurd.

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When was the last time Brady ruined Peyton's season? Really, when? I am all ears.

That is a good point. They have only played three times in the post-season with Brady holding a 2-1 edge winning in 2003 and 2004 and Manning winning in 2006. I would argue Philip Rivers should he win Sunday will have ruined Peyton more as he would be 3-0 vs him and the underdog all three times winning two on Peyton's home field.

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