Kalil Is Our Best Bet If Three Assumptions Hold

[GoGoColts]

1. We will not have the number 1 pick because the Dolphins are the worst team.

2. The Dolphins draft Luck and the other QB prospects are just typical first round QB prospects.

3. Peyton will come back and play for 4-6 year if we protect him.

Sorry that this is in the wrong place.

Edited October 18, 2011 by GoGoColts

[jskinnz]

1. We will not have the number 1 pick because the Dolphins are the worst team.

2. The Dolphins draft Luck and the other QB prospects are just typical first round QB prospects.

3. Peyton will come back and play for 4-6 year if we protect him.

Sorry that this is in the wrong place.

Why is he your best bet? It seems to me that he would be a long shot at best for the Colts given that they just drafted bookend tackles this year.

[ruksak]

I really think we should steer clear of drafting any more O-lineman in the first round for some time. Its time to look to FA for those needs as Manning is on his last leg, he needs protection immeadiatly, not eventually.

We are being way too presumptive of final draft slotting. Miami is bad, but our defense is, in my opinion, the worst in the league. Although Miami has a brutal schedule ahead, so they may well get that #1 and finally their fans may get their Marino replacement. They deserve it.

[GoGoColts]

Why is he your best bet? It seems to me that he would be a long shot at best for the Colts given that they just drafted bookend tackles this year.

Ijilana would have started at RT if he were truly a bookend. Castanzo is good left tackle who would be a great RT. Kalil could step in and be the best left tackle in the league. Peyton would be unstoppable with legitimate protection and a solid running game.

[GoGoColts]

I really think we should steer clear of drafting any more O-lineman in the first round for some time. Its time to look to FA for those needs as Manning is on his last leg, he needs protection immeadiatly, not eventually.

We are being way too presumptive of final draft slotting. Miami is bad, but our defense is, in my opinion, the worst in the league. Although Miami has a brutal schedule ahead, so they may well get that #1 and finally their fans may get their Marino replacement. They deserve it.

Kalil will likely be better than anyone we could ever hope to get in free-agency. Kalil is likely an all-pro caliber player.

[doogansquest]

The three assumptiins being:

1. The entire Front Office suffers amnesia and forgets they drafted 2 OT's last time.

2. Castonzo, Ijalana, and Diem suffer career-ending injuries between now and April.

3. Our Front Office is held hostage by the horrible decision makers known as Colts.com members.

Ijalana simply needed time to develop, and Castonzo is our LT of the future. Sorry, but we're not moving him to a different spot just to get another one. You are also assuming Kalil will be a "Legend," right? I would bet our line would regress behind this move because we would be shuffling guys out of position again.

Peyton is closest thing to it, but there's no such thing as unstoppable in the NFL.

Edited October 18, 2011 by doogansquest

[ruksak]

The three assumptiins being:

1. The entire Front Office suffers amnesia and forgets they drafted 2 OT's last time.

2. Castonzo, Ijalana, and Diem suffer career-ending injuries between now and April.

3. Our Front Office is held hostage by the horrible decision makers known as Colts.com members.

Ijalana simply needed time to develop, and Castonzo is our LT of the future. Sorry, but we're not moving him to a different spot just to get another one. You are also assuming Kalil will be a "Legend," right? I would bet our line would regress behind this move because we would be shuffling guys out of position again.

Peyton is closest thing to it, but there's no such thing as unstoppable in the NFL.

Yea....what he said

+1 for all that

[GoGoColts]

The three assumptiins being:

1. The entire Front Office suffers amnesia and forgets they drafted 2 OT's last time.

2. Castonzo, Ijalana, and Diem suffer career-ending injuries between now and April.

3. Our Front Office is held hostage by the horrible decision makers known as Colts.com members.

Ijalana simply needed time to develop, and Castonzo is our LT of the future. Sorry, but we're not moving him to a different spot just to get another one. You are also assuming Kalil will be a "Legend," right? I would bet our line would regress behind this move because we would be shuffling guys out of position again.

Peyton is closest thing to it, but there's no such thing as unstoppable in the NFL.

The consistency with which you make trivial comments is incredible.

Yea....what he said

+1 for all that

Your comments are pretty much the same.

Edited October 18, 2011 by GoGoColts

[ruksak]

The consistency with which you make trivial comments is incredible.

Your comments are pretty much the same.

There's no reason to get short with us. When you post a thread, expect differing opinions. :duh:

[GoGoColts]

There's no reason to get short with us. When you post a thread, expect differing opinions. :duh:

Differing opinion are never a problem. I think that people get tired of your meaningless quips and Doogan's long winded expositions that are equally uninformative.

[ruksak]

Differing opinion are never a problem. I think that people get tired of your meaningless quips and Doogan's long winded expositions that are equally uninformative.

Taking a look at reputation points posted on member profiles, I would say that many people enjoy me and Doogan's input, even if you think them to be meaningless, trivial and/or long winded.

Doogan hit the nail on the head,as is evident by the many pluses he has already garnered from his above post. Which, despite your opinion, others seem to agree. Take such evidence to heart and try not to be so prickly in your response.

[jskinnz]

Differing opinion are never a problem. I think that people get tired of your meaningless quips and Doogan's long winded expositions that are equally uninformative.

Long winded for Doogan? Probably but does not mean that he isn't spot on.

The Colts are positively not going to draft another OT in round 1 when they spent their top 2 picks on them the year before. Simply is not going to happen, nor should it. Castonzo was drafted to be the LT for the next 10 years and he looks to be the part. For Ijalana, just because a rookie is not ready in his first year does not mean he won't be ready in year 2. Actually he may have been ready sooner as he looked decent in playing time in Tampa.

There are so many holes to fill on this Colts roster. Offensive tackles right now is not one of them for 2012. Kalil will be playing in a different uni next year.

[ruksak]

Long winded for Doogan? Probably but does not mean that he isn't spot on.

The Colts are positively not going to draft another OT in round 1 when they spent their top 2 picks on them the year before. Simply is not going to happen, nor should it. Castonzo was drafted to be the LT for the next 10 years and he looks to be the part. For Ijalana, just because a rookie is not ready in his first year does not mean he won't be ready in year 2. Actually he may have been ready sooner as he looked decent in playing time in Tampa.

There are so many holes to fill on this Colts roster. Offensive tackles right now is not one of them for 2012. Kalil will be playing in a different uni next year.

Chicago would gobble him up if given the chance.

[Xfiles]

You are wrong on this one Go Go, sorry, but its true. Most of what Doogan said is spot on, however I agree he could have used a little more tact in addressing your post.

[pacolts56]

Chicago would gobble him up if given the chance.

He'll probably go 3rd or at worst 4th overall behind Luck, Landry and maybe Coples.

The Bears oughta trade up for him if they can....Cutler's getting killed.

[gspdx]

1. We will not have the number 1 pick because the Dolphins are the worst team.

2. The Dolphins draft Luck and the other QB prospects are just typical first round QB prospects.

3. Peyton will come back and play for 4-6 year if we protect him.

Sorry that this is in the wrong place.

1. This doesn't mean the Dolphins will have the worst record. That is still to be decided.

2. Assumption based on number 1.

3. Opinion not based in fact. I would be more conservatvie and shoot for 2-3 really good years so maybe it's time to pull out the stops and put some FA talent around Peyton for 2-3 years and compete. Maybe we trade whatever pick we get for some proven starters rather than rookies we need to develop. Maybe we can work a deal to get some quality DBs.

[Jaric]

Three little words:

Best. Player. Available.

[GoGoColts]

Long winded for Doogan? Probably but does not mean that he isn't spot on.

The Colts are positively not going to draft another OT in round 1 when they spent their top 2 picks on them the year before. Simply is not going to happen, nor should it. Castonzo was drafted to be the LT for the next 10 years and he looks to be the part. For Ijalana, just because a rookie is not ready in his first year does not mean he won't be ready in year 2. Actually he may have been ready sooner as he looked decent in playing time in Tampa.

There are so many holes to fill on this Colts roster. Offensive tackles right now is not one of them for 2012. Kalil will be playing in a different uni next year.

Plans can change. As for Ijilana. I am not saying that he won't see the field, I am simply making the point that his spot at right tackle isn't set in stone.

[GoGoColts]

1. This doesn't mean the Dolphins will have the worst record. That is still to be decided.

2. Assumption based on number 1.

3. Opinion not based in fact. I would be more conservatvie and shoot for 2-3 really good years so maybe it's time to pull out the stops and put some FA talent around Peyton for 2-3 years and compete. Maybe we trade whatever pick we get for some proven starters rather than rookies we need to develop. Maybe we can work a deal to get some quality DBs.

Inherent in the idea of assumption is that they aren't based on fact. The problem with a draft conversation this early in the season is that there are so many possible draft scenarios that we need to all operate from to have a meaningful conversation.

Try a dictionary before you post.

[Jason_]

The consistency with which you make trivial comments is incredible.

Your comments are pretty much the same.

.....said the pot to the kettle

The three assumptiins being:

1. The entire Front Office suffers amnesia and forgets they drafted 2 OT's last time.

2. Castonzo, Ijalana, and Diem suffer career-ending injuries between now and April.

3. Our Front Office is held hostage by the horrible decision makers known as Colts.com members.

Ijalana simply needed time to develop, and Castonzo is our LT of the future. Sorry, but we're not moving him to a different spot just to get another one. You are also assuming Kalil will be a "Legend," right? I would bet our line would regress behind this move because we would be shuffling guys out of position again.

Peyton is closest thing to it, but there's no such thing as unstoppable in the NFL.

Agreed, agreed and agreed. How long before the "we must draft Trent Richardson...you don't pass on THAT kind of talent" threads?

[jskinnz]

Plans can change. As for Ijilana. I am not saying that he won't see the field, I am simply making the point that his spot at right tackle isn't set in stone.

There have been all kinds of rational responses to your plan. It seems to me you would be well-served to take a step back and realize what you propose is not likely at all to happen.

[jskinnz]

Inherent in the idea of assumption is that they aren't based on fact. The problem with a draft conversation this early in the season is that there are so many possible draft scenarios that we need to all operate from to have a meaningful conversation.

Try a dictionary before you post.

Wait a minute - you chastize Doogan for his sarcastic response to your ill-conceived idea and then you make a personal attack of your own with your dictionary comment. Seems to me to slightly hypocritic to me.

[GoGoColts]

Taking a look at reputation points posted on member profiles, I would say that many people enjoy me and Doogan's input, even if you think them to be meaningless, trivial and/or long winded.

Likely you both have multiple accounts and apparently posters respond positively to low-level drivel and parroting of talk radio.

[mightisright]

I really think we should steer clear of drafting any more O-lineman in the first round for some time. Its time to look to FA for those needs as Manning is on his last leg, he needs protection immeadiatly, not eventually.

We are being way too presumptive of final draft slotting. Miami is bad, but our defense is, in my opinion, the worst in the league. Although Miami has a brutal schedule ahead, so they may well get that #1 and finally their fans may get their Marino replacement. They deserve it.

agreed on the free agents.

[GoGoColts]

There have been all kinds of rational responses to your plan. It seems to me you would be well-served to take a step back and realize what you propose is not likely at all to happen.

Like not understanding the meaning of the word assumption?

Like calling Ijilana a bookend when he was beaten out for a starting job?

Ijilana playing one snap and falling down and getting IRed?

What evidence?

Edited October 18, 2011 by GoGoColts

[Andy]

If we get the 2nd pick, we have 2 options:

Get Kalil

or Trade down to the 8th or 9th team

[ruksak]

Likely you both have multiple accounts and apparently posters respond positively to low-level drivel and parroting of talk radio.

Now you're just being little about this, as well as derailing your own thread into a flame war. I will take this cue and step out. Good day, sir.

[gspdx]

Inherent in the idea of assumption is that they aren't based on fact. The problem with a draft conversation this early in the season is that there are so many possible draft scenarios that we need to all operate from to have a meaningful conversation. Try a dictionary before you post.

I guess my point is that I don't agree with your assumptions. I could through out any list of assumptions and then try to state a decsion that I'm trying to pass along as fact. It isn't. When you base a decision on assumptions expect some debate. And try not to be so sensitive when you post.

Edited October 18, 2011 by gspdx

[rockywoj]

Given the assumptions, I agree about taking Kalil. I think he very well may be the best OT to come out in the past decade and if that hold true, I just think you have to take him.

As for Ijilana, a lot of scouts were projecting his best pro position as being OG. I think he certainly has the look of an OG and he is still very young and ready to learn. I really don't see a reason why he cannot be trained to be an OG and I don't buy into the mantra that he's just an OT that cannot be trained to play OG. I mean, Diem can play both for goodness sakes, and the expectation is that Ijilana has more talent than DIem. Talent is talent and if Kalil is as good as expected, then taking him solves the OG need assuming Ijilana can indeed make the switch.

I completely agree with the notion that an OL with Kalil and Castonzo as bookend OTs with Ijilana making a successful switch to OG (as many scouts projected) would set the Colts up to have a dominant OL for the next decade.

All of that being said, I thought Ijilana looked really good when he briefly filled in for Castonzo at OT before he got hurt, so it would not necessarily be a huge "need" pick. Unless there is a CB or S or WR that is instead available that looks to be a one in 10 year player though, I say go with Kalil. If there is an amazing player available at CB, S, or WR, then I would be fine with such a choice, even though I am biased toward building great O and D lines to anchor great teams.

[jskinnz]

Like not understanding the meaning of the word assumption?

Like calling Ijilana a bookend when he was beaten out for a starting job?

Ijilana playing one snap and falling down and getting IRed?

What evidence?

Thanks for proving me correct in my assumptions about you - a football savant you are not.

[pacolts56]

Okay....let's leave a little room for what could happen on Draft Day.

To be fair to the OP....Matt Kalil shows all the signs of another excellent USC LT. In fact....Kalil was the reason that last year's #9 overall pick, Tyron Smith of the Cowboys, played RT and not LT at USC.

So if we do wind up at, say, pick #4 and Luck, Landry Jones and Coples are all off the board...and we have no trade-down partner....then isn't it foolish to sacrifice value for need?

Kalil wouldn't be a terrible pick under those circumstances, and we have to guard against wanting a need over better value.

I for one....would love a monster at 4-3 NT. Guess what...there aren't any Top 5 prospects this year.

It's a tough balancing act....but taking a "best in breed" player at a high draft spot isn't the worst thing in the world.

In our situation...the front office HAS to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and address some of our needs in free agency if it we are to have a REAL chance of winning another SB in the Manning era. ANd yes...THAT is a crapshoot too, but its where we are.

Who we draft at this point, by the very nature of how long prospects take to develop, has to focus more on the long term benefit of the team rather than the short term.

[jskinnz]

Okay....let's leave a little room for what could happen on Draft Day.

To be fair to the OP....Matt Kalil shows all the signs of another excellent USC LT. In fact....Kalil was the reason that last year's #9 overall pick, Tyron Smith of the Cowboys, played RT and not LT at USC.

So if we do wind up at, say, pick #4 and Luck, Landry Jones and Coples are all off the board...and we have no trade-down partner....then isn't it foolish to sacrifice value for need?

Kalil wouldn't be a terrible pick under those circumstances, and we have to guard against wanting a need over better value.

I for one....would love a monster at 4-3 NT. Guess what...there aren't any Top 5 prospects this year.

It's a tough balancing act....but taking a "best in breed" player at a high draft spot isn't the worst thing in the world.

In our situation...the front office HAS to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and address some of our needs in free agency if it we are to have a REAL chance of winning another SB in the Manning era. ANd yes...THAT is a crapshoot too, but its where we are.

Who we draft at this point, by the very nature of how long prospects take to develop, has to focus more on the long term benefit of the team rather than the short term.

Do you think Castonzo is the LT of the future? He has certainly looked the part to this point, injury aside.

If so, why do take another LT? You certainly don't take a RT that high at the top of the draft.

[GoGoColts]

I guess my point is that I don't agree with your assumptions. I could through out any list of assumptions and then try to state a decsion that I'm trying to pass along as fact. It isn't. When you base a decision on assumptions expect some debate. And try not to be so sensitive when you post.

When you get all riled up and start arguing against assumptions complaining that they are opinions rather than fact then you clearly have no clue what an assumption is as they are clearly opinions. All you need to so is simply disagree and explain a more likely scenario.

[GoGoColts]

Thanks for proving me correct in my assumptions about you - a football savant you are not.

It's pretty 3rd grade of you to make all those incorrect arguments and then declare yourself the winner. You don't know whether you are coming or going.

[Jason_]

then taking him solves the OG need assuming Ijilana can indeed make the switch.

I completely agree with the notion that an OL with Kalil and Castonzo as bookend OTs with Ijilana making a successful switch to OG (as many scouts projected) would set the Colts up to have a dominant OL for the next decade.

Ok here's the biggest problem, imo. If we were able to play around and try him at OG for the rest of the season to see how he does then that would be one thing. We can't though because of his injury and him being on IR. Therefore you're taking the chance that he'd be able to make the switch which is nothing more than speculation. The experts said that based on his skill set he may be able to play guard but unless I'm wrong he's never taken a snap at the position. I believe he was a multi-year starter at LT during college. So all that means is he has the skill set that might allow him to make the switch but without the opportunity to find out we'll never know. That means you're taking a top 5 draft pick on another OT with the assumption that Ijalana can make the switch and be an effective OG which is something we don't know. If he can't, then the 2nd round pick we spent on him becomes a waste. Well, maybe "waste" is a bit strong but we don't get near the value we should because Ijalana would then become a backup.

Instead, we can keep him at OT, a position we know he can play and then take one of the best OG's later in the draft and this way we're taking a player who has multiple years at the position so there is no guesswork involved. We also can then spend the top 5 pick to either trade down and get additional picks or draft a top-level talent at another position that we need. I am all for continuing to strengthen the OL but using a top 5 pick on a player one year removed from spending first and second round picks on players at the same position based on the assumption that one of those players can make the transition to a brand new position is what is makes the idea a mistake, imo.

[jskinnz]

It's pretty 3rd grade of you to make all those incorrect arguments and then declare yourself the winner. You don't know whether you are coming or going.

Nice try but there has been nothing from me in this entire thread that is incorrect.

[DILLIGAFER]

Why are we even talking about drafting an offensive player in the first round. Anyone been watching the same games i have? This team needs a solid CB/SS. The way they get beat relentlessly is beyond rediculous. Barring any unforseen tragedy to Manning, the offense will be good next year with Ijliana and castonzo returning with Diem. Colts may need to snag a WR if the colts do not resign wayne.

Colts need depth in the back field. Period.

[GoGoColts]

Nice try but there has been nothing from me in this entire thread that is incorrect.

Apparently, you think that taking guy who projects as a guard and stretching him to play right tackle qualifies as a bookend. LOL.

Why is he your best bet? It seems to me that he would be a long shot at best for the Colts given that they just drafted bookend tackles this year.

[pacolts56]

Do you think Castonzo is the LT of the future? He has certainly looked the part to this point, injury aside.

If so, why do take another LT? You certainly don't take a RT that high at the top of the draft.

Not usually....but if Castonzo is under contract for 8 mil over 4 years and Kalil, if we took him at #4, presumably would come in at 20-21mil over 4 years based on 2011 rookie salaries plus a small increase...then, along with kicking Ijalana inside to OG we'd have the foundation of a very formidable young O-line.

I totally get that we have other needs like the NT we've needed for years.

I just think we do have to be careful of passing up blue-chip rated talent at a Top 5 draft position if there is a possible scenario where the pick could actually work out very well.

We could after all be stuck without an acceptable trade-down offer and actually having to make a pick. Just keeping an open mind.

Edited October 18, 2011 by pacolts56

[GoGoColts]

If there is one thing that we know for sure is that Peyton is the franchise. Let's make sure that he stays healthy.