Should We Try Garcon Or Gonzo For Kickoffs?

[chad72]

I think it might be time to take a chance and try either Garcon or Gonzo on kickoffs. Both are in their contract years and I expect it might be a change worth trying given their straight line speed, which is similar to what Lefeged has.

Thoughts???

[jwilli69]

The problem I see is not the actual returner, although the decisions to come out or field the ball at times are questionable, but the non blocking or impeding the progress of the other team while the ball is in the air is the issue. Look at every team we play, they get past the 20 most every time while our guys often can't get past the 15 yard line. Everytime we recieve the punt or KO, there is multiple players right up on our returner. Now, go back and look at most of the opposition returners, they have to run 10 yards before they see someone from our "fast" team. They are blocking our guys down the field, we just run backwards and get into our returners way with clutter and hope something comes out of it. Bolt could take the KO and not get more than 5 yards because of this pathetic display of ST play. I fault this again on the coaching because they stick with a theory that is not and has not worked out well for this team. Different coaches and we have the same output, who is forcing this strategy, Caldwell, ST coach or is Polian dictating the mode to play? It makes you wonder when different coaches coach the same crap and we all know, crap in crap out. It just simply can't always be the players are not that high of quality. Good coaches put avg players in better positions to make plays, ours says we do what we do and this is the product.

[Fatboyslim11]

The problem I see is not the actual returner, although the decisions to come out or field the ball at times are questionable, but the non blocking or impeding the progress of the other team while the ball is in the air is the issue. Look at every team we play, they get past the 20 most every time while our guys often can't get past the 15 yard line. Everytime we recieve the punt or KO, there is multiple players right up on our returner. Now, go back and look at most of the opposition returners, they have to run 10 yards before they see someone from our "fast" team. They are blocking our guys down the field, we just run backwards and get into our returners way with clutter and hope something comes out of it. Bolt could take the KO and not get more than 5 yards because of this pathetic display of ST play. I fault this again on the coaching because they stick with a theory that is not and has not worked out well for this team. Different coaches and we have the same output, who is forcing this strategy, Caldwell, ST coach or is Polian dictating the mode to play? It makes you wonder when different coaches coach the same crap and we all know, crap in crap out. It just simply can't always be the players are not that high of quality. Good coaches put avg players in better positions to make plays, ours says we do what we do and this is the product.

Our entire Special Teams approach - the concepts, coaching, schemes, personnel and coaching is inept and historically bad. Our ST coach should not be in the NFL. He is only here because of his friendship with Caldwell and certainly not his coaching ability. The only way our STs become at least NFL average is to fire the ST coach when we fire the HC and actually bring in players that can play ST - right Eads?.

[Andy]

The problem I see is not the actual returner, although the decisions to come out or field the ball at times are questionable, but the non blocking or impeding the progress of the other team while the ball is in the air is the issue. Look at every team we play, they get past the 20 most every time while our guys often can't get past the 15 yard line. Everytime we recieve the punt or KO, there is multiple players right up on our returner. Now, go back and look at most of the opposition returners, they have to run 10 yards before they see someone from our "fast" team. They are blocking our guys down the field, we just run backwards and get into our returners way with clutter and hope something comes out of it. Bolt could take the KO and not get more than 5 yards because of this pathetic display of ST play. I fault this again on the coaching because they stick with a theory that is not and has not worked out well for this team. Different coaches and we have the same output, who is forcing this strategy, Caldwell, ST coach or is Polian dictating the mode to play? It makes you wonder when different coaches coach the same crap and we all know, crap in crap out. It just simply can't always be the players are not that high of quality. Good coaches put avg players in better positions to make plays, ours says we do what we do and this is the product.

Bingo... the blocking is the problem. Exactly what I said yesterday.

Gonzo would also be a horrible returner as he is not fast. Garcon is worth a shot, but the blocking is the problem. Chad Simpson was a good returner...

[jwilli69]

Bingo... the blocking is the problem. Exactly what I said yesterday.

Gonzo would also be a horrible returner as he is not fast. Garcon is worth a shot, but the blocking is the problem. Chad Simpson was a good returner...

I have been saying this since last year if not before this. The problem again is nobody is holding up the defenders and they are right on top of the returner everytime the ball is kicked to him. So, not only does the returner have to try and avoid their people, ours are backpedaling into the path of our own guy. The KR or PR needs a few steps to get a vision of where he needs to go and by having 10-15 people all crowded around you does not allow for it. Hester couldn't break anything on this team. Deon Sanders in his prime would be stuffed. It is just a terrible scheme and I can't believe they use it, what reasonable excuse do they have for maintaining this scheme, has it worked somewhere in the past or do they just buy into the belief that catch the ball, sit still and take no risk of getting hit running downfield and losing the ball? Instead, we catch the ball and handicap the team because we always start deep in our own territory. Won't have any position change or success until this approach changes. Won't win with em, just can't do it!!

[Dtman513]

Like everybody else said, doesn't matter who is back there because of our schemes....Plus, the new kickoff rule makes guys down it anyway

[mz1888]

Not sure if Garcon has the hands to field punts it's hard enough watching him drop balls on offence.. Can't have him muffing punts or kickoffs.... Gonzo is way to slow to do either...

[John Waylon]

With blocking like ours what's the use? A return past the 20 would be an absolute miracle for us.

[oldunclemark]

I think it might be time to take a chance and try either Garcon or Gonzo on kickoffs. Both are in their contract years and I expect it might be a change worth trying given their straight line speed, which is similar to what Lefeged has.

Thoughts???

Yes....WE have the worst kick return game in the NFL..

[LaughingAtIrsay]

Maybe we should trade for that O-lineman from New England that ran the kick return for 76 yards, he's much better then all of our options!

[Malakai432]

Yeah I would have to agree it's more of a blocking, scheme, coaching ordeal. I do think we might the personnel as well. Lefeged has potential to be a good returner, some of his decisions are questionable yeah but IMO only a very small part of ST faults are on him, if any.

In short I think even Devin Hester would have a tough time running in our return game.

[Jaric]

No. We should cut Gonzo and beat Garcon everytime he does something stupid like lateralling the ball to Jeff Saturday or whatever the heck it was he was trying to accomplish yesterday until it sinks into his think skull.

[Junior]

No I dont think we should put Garcon as our kick returner it would just make him tired even more while playing on offense and gonzo seems too slow to return. And I agree with most people above it may be our schemes and special teams blocking/play calling.

[21isSuperman]

It doesn't matter who we have returning it, our blocking is brutal. Let's just say we did have good blocking. Garcon drops easy passes, I don't know how he would do at catching kicks and punts. As for Gonzo, he hasn't shown that he can stay healthy. One hit on a return and his season will probably be over.

[ruksak]

Adding to what many others have stated, I would say its a bad idea to subject our leading receivers (Garcon not Gonzo) to the punishment of returning kicks.

[shakedownstreet]

i'm more concerned about punt returns. we have a grand total of 5 punt return yards all season

[jwilli69]

Not sure if Garcon has the hands to field punts it's hard enough watching him drop balls on offence.. Can't have him muffing punts or kickoffs.... Gonzo is way to slow to do either...

You people need to get over yourselves and this Garcon hands thing. Exactly how many passes did he drop Sunday? Let me remind you, ZERO!! How many did the great Clark drop? More than Garcon has. Same thing last year, wayne dropped more balls than Garcon but everyone is on the younger, less experienced Garcon. He lacks focus at times, you will have this but what was Reggies and Clarks excuse for lack of focus while on their second mega contracts? Give it up already and quit repeating the same mantra as others have just because he made a mental error on the effort reach. He will learn from it and as it stands right now, Garcon is the homerun guy and will make this offense better as he learns. He has improved and I will take that over a complacent veteran not doing his job as he should be doing.

No. We should cut Gonzo and beat Garcon everytime he does something stupid like lateralling the ball to Jeff Saturday or whatever the heck it was he was trying to accomplish yesterday until it sinks into his think skull.

Rediculous you people are. Did anyone ask Garcon if he was lateraling it or are you just repeating stuff people think he was trying to do? It looked to me like he was trying to make more out of the play than he needed to be doing and the ball got knocked out. I never felt like he was trying to make a lateral to an olineman at all. So if he stated that is what he was trying to do, then it was *ic but if it is you repeating things others felt he was trying to do, then you are wasting bandwith here.

Look, everyone knew Garcon was raw. He was from a smalltime college program and had to work through the process. He has been learning how to be at an elite level and how to practice and concentrate. Reggie Wayne came from the big school of Miami so his skills were much further advanced than Garcons. I would venture to say that garcon is the new #1 on this team come next season whether he drops a ball or two along the way is irrelevant. He used to do it with a lot more frequency and people just hang onto that vision, he has improved quite a bit.

[deedub75]

Let's try a lucky fan in the Toyota Zone.

[hurricane1122]

definitely not. gonzo would be injured in practice and garcon would probably get injured in the first game. too risky. remember, without garcon painter has no touchdown passes.

*except for the one to clark sunday*

Edited October 18, 2011 by hurricane1122

[wercolts]

Anyone other than Lefeged, he was horrible.

[Jaric]

Rediculous you people are. Did anyone ask Garcon if he was lateraling it or are you just repeating stuff people think he was trying to do? It looked to me like he was trying to make more out of the play than he needed to be doing and the ball got knocked out. I never felt like he was trying to make a lateral to an olineman at all. So if he stated that is what he was trying to do, then it was *ic but if it is you repeating things others felt he was trying to do, then you are wasting bandwith here.

Look, everyone knew Garcon was raw. He was from a smalltime college program and had to work through the process. He has been learning how to be at an elite level and how to practice and concentrate. Reggie Wayne came from the big school of Miami so his skills were much further advanced than Garcons. I would venture to say that garcon is the new #1 on this team come next season whether he drops a ball or two along the way is irrelevant. He used to do it with a lot more frequency and people just hang onto that vision, he has improved quite a bit.

No, you see I watched the game. So that's how I know it was a stupid play. Polian clarified on his show that he was "reaching for more yards." Which in this circumstance is also stupid. He had gotten all he was going to get. It's not worth risking the football there for an extra six inches. It was first down and he got about 9 yards. But at that exact moment, first downs aren't all that important. The defense is going to give you yards, they're just trying to slow you down because the clock is against you at that point.

It's exactly those kind of stupid plays that cost ball games and are precisely why we are 0-6 right now.

This is Garcon's third year. He SHOULD know better than that by now. Protecting the football is the most important thing in that situation. You turn it over, you lose.

This is part of a concerning bigger problem with him, which is his tendency to make mental errors. Now I like Garcon. But his problem is 100% mental. We know he can catch because we see him make circus catches look easy. Which is why I know his drops are all mental. It's a lack of concentration and situational awareness. All things that a 3rd year player (who has played as much as Garcon has) should know. If he doesn't that's on the coaching staff (my assumption) if he does, then that's on him.

But the bottom line is that teams that make those kind of mistakes consistently end up drafting towards the front, while teams that don't make the playoffs.

[jwilli69]

SOunds like someone who is is trying to pin the whole losing stuff on a wr who is less experienced than the others and he is getting the blame. Dallas started this nonsense with all his drops and then he fumbled not securing the ball like he knows he should at that point. My point is so many people are holding in their minds all the drops before this game and this year for Garcon that it is almost just a mentality that we can blame everything that Garcon does as the cause for a loss. It is rediculous because Garcon has made more big plays for this team this year than bad ones. If you want to jump on him for making a mistake, thats fine but he was doing what almost every player in the NFL does, make more out of a play. Dallas cost this team the loss more than Garcon, he fumbled first and caused the team to fight from behind. Blame him, he is a highly paid vet!

[thetigerfox]

Blocking and special teams are putrid, but I think Garcon would be great. He could give us a spark every once in awhile, its not like he could do worse than they already are. At this point in the season I think its a great idea to have your best players playing as much as possible. We use to do it in the playoffs(using starters in special teams)

[jwilli69]

Blocking and special teams are putrid, but I think Garcon would be great. He could give us a spark every once in awhile, its not like he could do worse than they already are. At this point in the season I think its a great idea to have your best players playing as much as possible. We use to do it in the playoffs(using starters in special teams)

So you want to put a starter out on the PR/KR duties when you know the blocking is "putrid"? What will this accomplish outside of getting a potential #1 if not a really solid #2 wr injured? Cetrainly isn't sound decision making, more like Madden type of decision making. I think Polian has been below avg over the past few years but I am glad he doesn't come to make choices such as this because it is maddening.

[Jaric]

SOunds like someone who is is trying to pin the whole losing stuff on a wr who is less experienced than the others and he is getting the blame. Dallas started this nonsense with all his drops and then he fumbled not securing the ball like he knows he should at that point. My point is so many people are holding in their minds all the drops before this game and this year for Garcon that it is almost just a mentality that we can blame everything that Garcon does as the cause for a loss. It is rediculous because Garcon has made more big plays for this team this year than bad ones. If you want to jump on him for making a mistake, thats fine but he was doing what almost every player in the NFL does, make more out of a play. Dallas cost this team the loss more than Garcon, he fumbled first and caused the team to fight from behind. Blame him, he is a highly paid vet!

Not even close. You can rarely look at a football game and point out "See! That's why we lost! It's all his fault!"

It's not all Garcon's fault. By and large he's been one of the few bright spots. But that fumble effectively ended the game yesterday and it was unneccesary. That's a fact. Pointing that out doesn't mean it was all his fault or that I think we should cut him. (I don't, I think we should coach him because he has alot of talent)

Did Lacey Island (where everyone is open!) or Dallas Clarks fumble play into it? Most certainly. So did Garcons. I don't see it as any big tragedy to point that out.

[Jaric]

So you want to put a starter out on the PR/KR duties when you know the blocking is "putrid"? What will this accomplish outside of getting a potential #1 if not a really solid #2 wr injured? Cetrainly isn't sound decision making, more like Madden type of decision making. I think Polian has been below avg over the past few years but I am glad he doesn't come to make choices such as this because it is maddening.

I'm not avocating we do that, but the reasoning is that Garcon is an excellent open field runner and people think that might translate into being a good kick returner.

That doesn't make it a "Madden" decision. It's looking at a player's skill set and seeing if it could be applied to another position to help the team.

[manningup]

Is Pierre aware of your feelings for him?

[Jaric]

Is Pierre aware of your feelings for him?

That fumbling at that point was bad/stupid?

Well I'd hope he wouldn't need me to tell him that.

[oldunclemark]

Adding to what many others have stated, I would say its a bad idea to subject our leading receivers (Garcon not Gonzo) to the punishment of returning kicks.

But Ruk..dont the Bears use Devin Hester as a punt returner AND a starting receiver?

He really doesnt get hurt (of course, he really doesnt get caught)

..has anybody ever actually SEEN our special teams coach..?

[oldunclemark]

I'm not avocating we do that, but the reasoning is that Garcon is an excellent open field runner and people think that might translate into being a good kick returner.

That doesn't make it a "Madden" decision. It's looking at a player's skill set and seeing if it could be applied to another position to help the team.

Like Devin Hester..

[Jaric]

Like Devin Hester..

Easy now. Let's not get crazy

[oldunclemark]

Easy now. Let's not get crazy

:rock:Never know until we try it...

[manningup]

@Jaric............My post wasn't directed at you. I apologize for the confusion...............

[Rich Cannon]

With blocking like ours what's the use? A return past the 20 would be an absolute miracle for us.

Exactly, until the Polians decide to get some better coaching in place this will be a constant theme.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Rich Cannon

[DILLIGAFER]

No way on Garcon. With his hands, do we really want to use him to catch punts and kicks? Gonzo would be creamed and killed.

[Jaric]

@Jaric............My post wasn't directed at you. I apologize for the confusion...............

No worries. I wasn't sure when I responded.

I stand by my response though

[jwilli69]

No way on Garcon. With his hands, do we really want to use him to catch punts and kicks? Gonzo would be creamed and killed.

Yeah, lets use Dallas Clark instead :mad: Again, the point is not who is taking the punt or kick, it is about the blocking. If you have a skill set that is great in the open field that is fine but the reality is, there is no open field because the defense is right on the returner as the ball arrives most times. Hester couldn't do jack squat here either.

[DILLIGAFER]

Yeah, lets use Dallas Clark instead :mad: Again, the point is not who is taking the punt or kick, it is about the blocking. If you have a skill set that is great in the open field that is fine but the reality is, there is no open field because the defense is right on the returner as the ball arrives most times. Hester couldn't do jack squat here either.

My reply was to the OP. The OP asked about Gonzo or Garcon returing, i replied to it simply. Take your RPM's down a notch. I think everyone knows as well as I do that the colts are not picking up their blocks. Like i said, Gonzo would be killed seeing as how fragile he is. Hence NO ONE BLOCKS!

Edited October 18, 2011 by number1coltfanidaho

[manningup]

Kerry Collins is getting paid millions to do nothing. I'd put him back there with instructions not to fair catch, run straight up the middle, and take it to the house..........

[Thewholefnshow28]

I do not know why they have not tried Brown back there. The guy is pretty good in space and kickoffs and punts tend to give you more space to work in. He has been our third running back on the roster for most of the season so why not try it?

The season is lost we might as well try some different things. Throw Brown in PR/KR duties. Try some fake field goals and punts. Try some onside kicks at the beginning of the game and second half.