Painter 0-3, Collins 0-3 Whats The Difference?

[number28]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

[oldunclemark]

Probably :pirate: a couple of million dollars..

[Andy]

Do I really have to tell you. Collins had 2 touchdowns in 3 games, Painter had 5. Pierre Garcon has done extremely well with Painter, same with Collins. 806 yards for painter, 481 for Collins. Offense has done much better than Collins. Collins has just been awful, no mobility, can't make throws. Painter can roll out, and he makes much better throws than Collins. All starters with Collins, lot of backups with Painter... I have more, but that alone should answer your question number28.

[John Waylon]

Just don't go here... The painter defenders will crucify you.

Like I've said for a week now:

It's like someone saying "I'm not eating sand, I'm eating mud"

Big freakin deal, you're still getting a huge does of sand in your mud.

We're still getting a huge helping of the same lack of anything Collins brought to the table with Painter. Painter is just more physically able.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Collins start this Sunday if he's healthy...

[number28]

Do I really have to tell you. Collins had 2 touchdowns in 3 games, Painter had 5. Pierre Garcon has done extremely well with Painter, same with Collins. 806 yards for painter, 481 for Collins. Offense has done much better than Collins. Collins has just been awful, no mobility, can't make throws. Painter can roll out, and he makes much better throws than Collins. All starters with Collins, lot of backups with Painter... I have more, but that alone should answer your question number28.

yeah and we are 0-3 with Painter. He doesn't make a difference.

defense wins games.

[Gonzo]

Meh, we're mildly more entertaining with Painter at QB. At least he knows the playbook.

[Smitto]

At first ppl were like... oh painter wont make a difference that line is gonna swallow him lol... painter is one of the bright spots on offense.. this is not a one man sport, painter has put the colts in the position to win.... but to no avail that hasnt happened yet... Im actually looking to see how he is gonna perform in the saints game... they are gonna move the ball on the colts easily i believe so i wanna see if painter puts up some good numbers.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Smitto

[leatherman]

painter has done more to put the colts in a position to win than collins had........this is stuff the coaching staff should have taken more serious in training camp and pre-season in the event manning was not going to be back when planned.......the coaching staff was caught with their pants down........most if not all of painters faults could be fixed with proper coaching........

[joshuajosh89]

I have been as big a painter Critic as there has been, but he has played as well as could be expected, and yes they are 0-3 with either QB starting, but they have looked like a capable NFL offense,as opposed to what they looked like with Collins starting. Yes defense is a very important part of the game, but to say who your QB is does not matter is just asinin, because if peyton manning were playing we could possibly be 5-1.

What this season has taught me so far is that me being a colts fan and having peyton manning as the QB of my team has spoiled me a little, and not having him playing really shows how many holes he really covered up.

[WSO]

after today lets face it

the entire team sucks

[number28]

bottom line is we are still 0-3 with Painter. Wins matter, not stats or performance quality.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

no but it does show how fn good and how much manning has hid.

[doogansquest]

yeah and we are 0-3 with Painter. He doesn't make a difference.

defense wins games.

But defense can't win games when the offense can't stay on the field for longer than 40 seconds. We keep going 3-and-out that fast in quarters 2 and 3, and our defense will be tired by the end of the game even if we were the Ravens.

[hurricane1122]

the difference is the colts have a qb that knows the playbook.

[21isSuperman]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

Yes, our best player is out and look at the team's record. If Painter had the same ability as Peyton and we were losing, you could make that argument. But yes, QB is our problem, it's one of our biggest problems (up there with the secondary)

[CR91]

painter just seems to know the offense better then collins

[Mouthfire]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at things. With a completely dysfunctional offense, you still can't win, even with a good defense.

With Painter, at least we have a chance at winning.

With Collins, we weren't even close.

[icf]

The comparisons to what Collins did are kinda silly. He had about 10 days to learn things prior to the 1st game. This is Painter's 3rd season.

Painter has played better and should continue to start for now. I dont think he'll ever be a 1st choice to be a starter in the league, but so far has looked like a decent back-up.

[number28]

until I see a W with painter he is still a pedestrian vanilla just like Collins.

[04DarkShadowGT]

The Colts could very well have won the last three games.

This week we gave up 14 points off two fumbles and got a FG blocked. Clean up those three mistakes and we win.

Last week we were up 17 points, I dont care if the offense goes 3 and out every time, the defense has to be able to hold a 17pt lead against a bad team who until the second half hasnt scored all year.

Then against the Steelers, Collins sucked and Painter led the team on a TD drive late when it actually mattered. If he played that entire game, as well as teh D played they may have won that game.

If you don't think the Colts with Painter aren't better than the Colts with Collins you are blind.

[number28]

The Colts could very well have won the last three games.

This week we gave up 14 points off two fumbles and got a FG blocked. Clean up those three mistakes and we win.

Last week we were up 17 points, I dont care if the offense goes 3 and out every time, the defense has to be able to hold a 17pt lead against a bad team who until the second half hasnt scored all year.

Then against the Steelers, Collins sucked and Painter led the team on a TD drive late when it actually mattered. If he played that entire game, as well as teh D played they may have won that game.

If you don't think the Colts with Painter aren't better than the Colts with Collins you are blind.

almost means nothing. Every team in NFL that loses a close game is all coulda woulda shoulda, there are many teams that should be 6-0 and they are not!!!!. This is the NFL. we are 0-6. we are not almost 3-3. We are 0-6 fair and square.

Colts with Painter are 0-3, they are not better than they are with Collins.

wins matter, its not how you win or lose.

0-3 with Painter, 0-3 with Collins. Equally bad.

Painter did not bring us wins.

[Smitto]

almost means nothing. Every team in NFL that loses a close game is all coulda woulda shoulda, there are many teams that should be 6-0 and they are not!!!!. This is the NFL. we are 0-6. we are not almost 3-3. We are 0-6 fair and square.

Colts with Painter are 0-3, they are not better than they are with Collins.

wins matter, its not how you win or lose.

0-3 with Painter, 0-3 with Collins. Equally bad.

Painter did not bring us wins.

Thats like saying a tire is a tire and it doesnt matter what tread's are on it in F1 racing.

One QB is better than the other, there's a significant difference.... at least the colts dont look horrible losing with painter than they did with collins, with his bad throwing motion smh.

[ColtsLegacy]

almost means nothing. Every team in NFL that loses a close game is all coulda woulda shoulda, there are many teams that should be 6-0 and they are not!!!!. This is the NFL. we are 0-6. we are not almost 3-3. We are 0-6 fair and square.

Colts with Painter are 0-3, they are not better than they are with Collins.

wins matter, its not how you win or lose.

0-3 with Painter, 0-3 with Collins. Equally bad.

Painter did not bring us wins.

This is such a "simple" view it's unbelievable. By your view, if Peyton went 0-3 the last 3 weeks he would be "equally bad" as Collins/Painter. It's just not that simple, buddy.

-------------------------------

"I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does."

I guess that means Peyton Manning has been playing defense for the Colts for the last 12 years. Brilliant.

Edited October 17, 2011 by ColtsLegacy

[colts_mp]

If Painter had started the season..how would he have looked in those first 3 games? He wouldn't have fared any better than Collins. The team has been getting better as the weeks go on so Painter was fortunate to come in 3 weeks into the season.

Had Collins stayed healthy and not taken the beating he did he would have been performing similar to Painter. Everyone had to expect Collins would need several weeks just to learn the plays, get comfortable and build rapport with the offense.

The Colts are not a good team compared to the rest of the league and it's as simple as that.

[19colt]

I think if Painter had started from week one then the Colts would have 2-3 wins right now. The entire Colts team was at a higher level in those first few weeks and the QB play was terrible. Since then the rest of the team's performance has come down and the QB play has gone up.

The reality is that Peyton Manning is so good that he lead the team to victory when the defence plays bad or when the running game sucks or when special team's plays horrible. Painter cannot.

He is a huge upgrade over Collins because as mentioned he knows the offence. I think its a shame he didn't start the season. Reggie Wayne was correct. They still would have lost to the Texans but with Painter they would have beat the Browns and beat the Steelers. There has been injuries since then but you would have to think that the Colts could have pulled out one of the last three games with a more experienced Painter at QB and the Colts would be 3-3.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

[BIGugly]

Difference is Painter has an upside....He's getting better....

[Rblake]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

PROVES? it doesn't PROVE anything about individual worth. This is dependent upon multiple team effort and is too complex to simplify to wins & losses.

We get it, you're mad about being 0-6. Show some tact.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Rblake

[mvbighead]

Holy cow we have some ignorance in this thread. Seriously? We can simply put the win or loss on Collins/Painter's heads?

For some reason, I recall teams have a 53 man roster with 11 starters on offense and 11 starters on defense. If the QB was the only one that mattered, we wouldn't be paying Freeney 10+ million a season and Mathis his 5 or whatever million per season. Nor would we be playing Reggie Wayne his 6+ million a season, or Dallas Clark the same.

To me, this season, the defense has been doing notably better at stopping the run early in the game. Heck, they've given up 3.9 yards per carry which is stellar compared to years past. The problem is, the offense is not staying on the field long enough to give the defense a chance to rest, and when a team has the lead against a gassed defense, they'll run it down their throats.

And where is the one of the team's biggest weaknesses? The running game. They're in the bottom 5 of the league, and we can no longer blame that on Peyton Manning wanting to throw it on every down.

If we compare Painter's 3 game average to the league average in terms of passing yards per game, we're at 13th in the league. Collins hasn't once brought us above 200 yards per game. To say that the two are even close is pathetic. Painter gives this team a chance to win a few this year. Collins has shown jack as of yet. Part of that can be attributed to his lack of familiarity with the offense. But the plain and simple truth is Painter is doing better with far less experience,and has far better upside (he's 26, not 38).

To me, this team needs to find a running game. They need to find a secondary. If 18 is behind center, all of these problems are pretty much meaningless because we'd do better on offense. And that should go without saying. It's Peyton -Freaking- Manning. Collins, at this point, is collecting a little more money for retirement. He gives us nothing over Painter.

The only blessing in our season without Peyton is the team may actually focus on its problems, and get this ship straightened out for when Manning does return. Could give us a legitimate shot at a SB next season.

[ToJen1981]

Never understood what the reasoning was that Collins was automatically going to be the starter. He didn't know the playbook. He's old and dare I say washed up. He has always been a game manager at best. Yeah, I get that Painter looked bad in preseason, but according to the "next man up" theory they preach, it should have been on Painter to lose the starting QB position, not Collins. I could see bringing Collins in as a back-up, and think that's the point Reggie Wayne was trying to make when they brought Collins in to be the starter. Plus, I'd say Collins had a better chance of winning based on the fact we were alot healthier then than we are now with Painter starting. Can't prove it obviously, but had Painter started from the get go, I see this team anywhere from 2-4 to 4-2.

[wanabecoach]

Early predictions...Colts beat the Saints this coming up week. If I'm wrong, I blend in with the others and if I am right I look like genius. Every time a teams gets to flying to high of thinks that they have an easy week, they get bit. This week, New Orleans. Throw in there that unknowing if Sean Peyton can coach this coming week, and I like my odds with Indy. After the Saints loss to the Bucs, they are looking at us thinking this is going to be a sure win...when in reality this team is much better than their 0-6 record. Again, we are a few baby steps away from a win. Go Colts!

[FanFromtheWasteland]

The difference is in the amount of playing time that they have both had. How many game snaps has Collins had in his career? How many has Painter had. How many reps in practice has Collins had in his career? Painter? Is it safe to say that Collins has seen most defensive coverages in his NFL lifetime and yet Painter seems to be at least making a decent showing of himself. Collins should have been able to make a better showing than he did on shear experience alone regardless of the scheme.

At this point in time we might as well stick with Painter, let him take his lumps in his first year of starting and hopefully he develops into an actual backup for Peyton.

[hawkeyes]

But defense can't win games when the offense can't stay on the field for longer than 40 seconds. We keep going 3-and-out that fast in quarters 2 and 3, and our defense will be tired by the end of the game even if we were the Ravens.

That is not the reason we have been losing .... couldnt stand hearing the announcers saying that over and over! Seriously, how many possessions did the Colts offense have vs Miami a year ago or so and yet we still won that game? The D was on the field much longer than was our O .... and that has been the Colts under Manning for years - it has not been out of the norm for the D to be on the field more than the O . That explanation/excuse just doesnt fly!

The Colts secondary is killing us here ... back then we had Kelvin Hayden, Marlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, Bethea - WHO do we have now? We are losing because of the secondary and the coaches unable to make proper adjustments - period, its not because professional / conditioned athletes have to take 6 extra series a game.

Edited October 17, 2011 by hawkeyes

[shaunzo]

Wow #28, could you be a little more bullheaded?

I guess the biggest difference is we couldn't even get the ball past our own 40 yard line with Collins in the game. Seriously, if you can't tell just by watching that Painter is the better option, than you're not watching the same team I am. If you want to be stubborn and act like because they haven't won yet that Painter is not better, that's your prerogative, but he's far and away a better choice for this offense right now.

Are you seriously calling for Collins to be put back in? If he was in yesterday, against that defense, we would've gotten shut out. Painter gives the team the best chance to win games, not sure how it could be explained any simpler.

[coltsfan84]

Well,no offense but if you've watched any games,Painter is obviously much better than Collins.No disrespect to Collins,but Painter has been in the organization and knows the system whereas Collins has been pulled out of retirement and expected to learn one of the most complex systems in a matter of a few weeks.Not to mention that the job should have been Painter's from the beginning.

[ponys]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem? I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

Well, well said and we lost a close one to the number one defense in the league yesterday period

[mvbighead]

That is not the reason we have been losing .... couldnt stand hearing the announcers saying that over and over! Seriously, how many possessions did the Colts offense have vs Miami a year ago or so and yet we still won that game? The D was on the field much longer than was our O .... and that has been the Colts under Manning for years - it has not been out of the norm for the D to be on the field more than the O . That explanation/excuse just doesnt fly!

The Colts secondary is killing us here ... back then we had Kelvin Hayden, Marlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, Bethea - WHO do we have now? We are losing because of the secondary and the coaches unable to make proper adjustments - period, its not because professional / conditioned athletes have to take 6 extra series a game.

Part 1 is pretty ridiculous. That excuse doesn't fly ay? Because we won one game where our offense had the field less than 1 quarter? Seriously? If you look across the history of the NFL, in MOST cases, you will see the team that wins the time of possession battle usually has a better outcome. That game was an exception, and if you'll recall, there was a big hub bub about the Colts managing to win that game while only possessing the ball:

Despite dominating time of possession, Dolphins fall to Colts - http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d812d2d98&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

In that game, the Colts were the exception. If you dominate possession of the ball and don't turn it over, the other team never gets the chance to put points on the board.

As to the secondary, no question that is one of our biggest weaknesses. That sad thing is, our secondary was mediocre a season or two ago, but we're downright awful now. And our rushing offense also has to change. heck, Painters connecting on some deep throws from time to time, which should stretch the defenses, and we still seldom top 100 yards in a game.

[bdogg]

Early predictions...Colts beat the Saints this coming up week. If I'm wrong, I blend in with the others and if I am right I look like genius. Every time a teams gets to flying to high of thinks that they have an easy week, they get bit. This week, New Orleans. Throw in there that unknowing if Sean Peyton can coach this coming week, and I like my odds with Indy. After the Saints loss to the Bucs, they are looking at us thinking this is going to be a sure win...when in reality this team is much better than their 0-6 record. Again, we are a few baby steps away from a win. Go Colts!

Nice to see some optimism for once! Keep it up!

[JoKeR]

Are we really that much better with Painter? I mean he is better than Collins statistically, but we are still losing games. Is QB really our problem?

I think that proves the theory that QB doesn't win games in NFL. Defense does.

Yes QB is still a problem. Neither is putting many points on the board and our 3rd down conversion % is in the tank. Our defense is on the field way too much because of the offence.

Successful defensive teams usually have a offense that can atleast stay on the field.

[ponys]

Yes QB is still a problem. Neither is putting many points on the board and our 3rd down conversion % is in the tank. Our defense is on the field way too much because of the offence.

Successful defensive teams usually have a offense that can atleast stay on the field.

Agreed, I remember a few years back we started 1 and 2. That was 2008 and Payton threw 3 TD's and 4 INT's the first 3 games. But he wasn't the problem, Painter has 5 TD's and 1 INT the last 3 games and we are 0 and 3 and he is the problem?