You have the #1 overall pick and can choose any player in NFL history. Who do you take?

[The Old Crow]

Montana would have been lucky to get those early Broncos team to the playoffs, let alone the SB.

Elway did the right thing when he spurned the Colts....they had awful ownership. I will never blame a player for refusing to sign with a poor organization.

 

 

Manning could have done the same thing with the Irsays that Elway did. That is not how the NFL draft works. If everyone thought the way Elway and Eli Manning did, the NFL wouldn't be as great as it is, and teams that are down, would have no hope of getting better. These two cats were only out for themselves, and it definately was not the right thing to do, and reflects poorly upon them.

[Fx Stryker]

Unitas had 1 up on Peyton, he ran better, and I remember some running TDs, not talking about sneaks but running around edge to corner of goal , but then again, not that hard to be better than Peyton at that and Unitas wasnt a great runner from what II remember but in his time cant remember one that really was ( LOL )

 

That exact thought popped in my head. Unitas does run, and that little scuffle move he did was awesome.

 

I guess we really are thinking alike.

[IndyTrav]

Obviously, you would pick a QB first...you need s strong leader...I'd go with Peyton, or Brady, but I'm gonna throw in one that no one ever mentions to be close. Gayle Sayres He's not my favorite all-time RB, but he could do it all. He would definitely be my #1 back picked. (i know you all probably won't agree with that, but to each his own)

I don't think a QB should be the first pick. I think you could easily flip a coin for the top 10/15....and even the guys in the 20/30 range are fantastic....even after the cream of the crop is taken you can still have your choice of guys in recent eras later in the "draft". That's why I think I would base my pick on position scarcity. Putting White/Deion near the top.

[The Old Crow]

John Elway carried some of the worst teams ever assembled to 3 Super Bowls in the pre-salary cap era. There was not one HOF player on any of those 3 Broncos teams that Elway brought to the Super Bowl. Montana played on the most stacked teams in NFL history and was a glorified system QB that happened to be really good at running an innovative system implemented by one of the greatest coaches of all time. What happened when Elway got the talent around him that Montana had his whole career? 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Elway would have won 9 Super Bowls on that 49ers team.

 

 

John Elway, without Denver's Salary Cap violations in 1997 and 1998, would have never won a Super Bowl. Without this circumvention of the salary cap, Elway would have gone down as one of the biggest losers in NFL history, right on the heels of Jim Kelly.

[Dustin]

John Elway, without Denver's Salary Cap violations in 1997 and 1998, would have never won a Super Bowl. Without this circumvention of the salary cap, Elway would have gone down as one of the biggest losers in NFL history, right on the heels of Jim Kelly.

Not even remotely my point.

[bayone]

That exact thought popped in my head. Unitas does run, and that little scuffle move he did was awesome.

 

I guess we really are thinking alike.

 

in his heyday he had the great Lenny Moore, came to team about same time, so never needed to run much, plus moores speed made him a great pass catching phenom . he was the perfect back for Unitas

 

Moore was both a great runner and receiver. He lined up both in the backfield as a halfback and split wide as a flanker, and was equally dangerous at both positions in the offense engineered by quarterback Johnny Unitas. Moore averaged at least 7.0 yards a carry in several seasons. He made 40 receptions for 687 yards and seven touchdowns in 1957, the first of five straight years in which he would have 40 or more catches. In 1958, he caught a career-high 50 passes for 938 yards and seven touchdowns in helping the Colts win the NFL championship. Then in 1959, Moore had 47 receptions for 846 yards and six TDs as the Colts repeated as champions.

 

Moore Had a td record getting 1 in 18 consecutive appearances ist broken by LT after 40 years in 2005

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Moore

[T Y Goodbye]

I don't think a QB should be the first pick. I think you could easily flip a coin for the top 10/15....and even the guys in the 20/30 range are fantastic....even after the cream of the crop is taken you can still have your choice of guys in recent eras later in the "draft". That's why I think I would base my pick on position scarcity. Putting White/Deion near the top.

 

Point taken...I also wouldn't mind getting Derrick Thomas or Dick Butkus either..

[The Old Crow]

Not even remotely my point.

 

 

The point is, Montana's stacked team or not, without the salary cap circumvention in 97/98, Elway would have been a three time Super Bowl  loser, and put in the category of Dan Marino and Jim Kelly, great quarterbacks that never won a Super Bowl.

[BOTT]

Manning could have done the same thing with the Irsays that Elway did. That is not how the NFL draft works. If everyone thought the way Elway and Eli Manning did, the NFL wouldn't be as great as it is, and teams that are down, would have no hope of getting better. These two cats were only out for themselves, and it definately was not the right thing to do, and reflects poorly upon them.

Manning didn't have to because Irsay put a respected football man in charge....Bill Polian. Elway and Eli didn't shun those teams because they were down, they shunned those teams due to their poor front offices. I don't blame them for doing so one bit.

If you graduated at the top od Harvard Law would you accept an offer from Jim Bob's Law Firm? Didn't think so

[The Old Crow]

On another note, if you believe in Karma, wouldn't it be great when Peyton Manning retires, and Denver had the #1 pick and there was a great young quarterback out there,and  that this kid refused to play for the Broncos, and told them not to draft him. Lets say he wanted to play on the east coast, maybe New York, and used his possibility of playing major league baseball as a threat, and as leverage. Maybe you didn't like the owner or coach of a team that was thinking of selecting you.  I wonder how Mr. Elway , now as GM, you view this punk through the prism of time ? He need only to look in a mirror.

[BOTT]

John Elway, without Denver's Salary Cap violations in 1997 and 1998, would have never won a Super Bowl. Without this circumvention of the salary cap, Elway would have gone down as one of the biggest losers in NFL history, right on the heels of Jim Kelly.

In the view of fools

[Dustin]

The point is, Montana's stacked team or not, without the salary cap circumvention in 97/98, Elway would have been a three time Super Bowl  loser, and put in the category of Dan Marino and Jim Kelly, great quarterbacks that never won a Super Bowl.

 

Again you're missing my point. Once Elway had even half the talent around him that Montana did he won 2 Super Bowls regardless of salary cap or not.

[The Old Crow]

Manning didn't have to because Irsay put a respected football man in charge....Bill Polian. Elway and Eli didn't shun those teams because they were down, they shunned those teams due to their poor front offices. I don't blame them for doing so one bit.

If you graduated at the top od Harvard Law would you accept an offer from Jim Bob's Law Firm? Didn't think so

 

 

The Irsay's were not very respected at this time. Bob had just died in 1997, and Jimmy had been a failed GM. Sure they had Polian, but the Irsays had also had hired top GM's in the past like Joe Thomas and Ernie Accorsi, who were considered top football men. Polian had also lost four straight super bowls, but seeing the kind of man Peyton is, he did the right thing as usual, and didn't stoop down to the level that Elway did, or his brother. Elway just wanted to play on the West Coast, and Eli wanted to play for a big market team like the Giants, instead of San Diego. These are selfish motivations, and if every player was allowed to go where the felt like going, it  would ruin the integrity of the NFL. This is a leadership flaw, that in my mind , disqualifies Elway from any top pick discussion. Other quarterbacks Joe Namath, Len Dawson, etc. have won Super Bowls with less than stellar talent.

[The Old Crow]

In the view of fools

 

 

In the view of many !

[Dustin]

The Irsay's were not very respected at this time. Bob had just died in 1997, and Jimmy had been a failed GM. Sure they had Polian, but the Irsays had also had hired top GM's in the past like Joe Thomas and Ernie Accorsi, who were considered top football men. Polian had also lost four straight super bowls, but seeing the kind of man Peyton is, he did the right thing as usual, and didn't stoop down to the level that Elway did, or his brother. Elway just wanted to play on the West Coast, and Eli wanted to play for a big market team like the Giants, instead of San Diego. These are selfish motivations, and if every player was allowed to go where the felt like going, it  would ruin the integrity of the NFL. This is a leadership flaw, that in my mind , disqualifies Elway from any top pick discussion. Other quarterbacks Joe Namath, Len Dawson, etc. have won Super Bowls with less than stellar talent.

 

Today I learned that losing 4 Super Bowls in a row makes you a bad GM.

[The Old Crow]

Again you're missing my point. Once Elway had even half the talent around him that Montana did he won 2 Super Bowls regardless of salary cap or not.

 

 

But would he have won had the Bronco's not fudged the salary cap in 97/98 ? You could argue he had an unfair advantage those years, because the Broncos were illegally over the cap.

[The Old Crow]

Today I learned that losing 4 Super Bowls in a row makes you a bad GM.

 

 

Trust me, he's more respected by winning the one in Indy, than losing the four in Buffalo. If you think it's not important, just ask Bud Grant of the Vikings !

[BOTT]

In the view of many !

Many fools. I remember when fools said Michael Jordan wasn't a winner like Magic and Bird. The nonsense that gets spewed and repeated in sports is astonishing. Not saying by you, but in general

[Dustin]

But would he have won had the Bronco's not fudged the salary cap in 97/98 ? You could argue he had an unfair advantage those years, because the Broncos were illegally over the cap.

 

I don't care about the cap. Your totally missing my point. Cap or no cap, once Elway had a great all around team he won 2 Super Bowls. 

[BOTT]

The Irsay's were not very respected at this time. Bob had just died in 1997, and Jimmy had been a failed GM. Sure they had Polian, but the Irsays had also had hired top GM's in the past like Joe Thomas and Ernie Accorsi, who were considered top football men. Polian had also lost four straight super bowls, but seeing the kind of man Peyton is, he did the right thing as usual, and didn't stoop down to the level that Elway did, or his brother. Elway just wanted to play on the West Coast, and Eli wanted to play for a big market team like the Giants, instead of San Diego. These are selfish motivations, and if every player was allowed to go where the felt like going, it  would ruin the integrity of the NFL. This is a leadership flaw, that in my mind , disqualifies Elway from any top pick discussion. Other quarterbacks Joe Namath, Len Dawson, etc. have won Super Bowls with less than stellar talent.

Everybody knows that irsay wasn't respected....that's why Polian was brought in.

Denver is far from the west coast

Eli spurned San Diego because AJ Smith and Marty Shottenheimer had a horrible relationship. Big markets don't matter in the nfl

[jvan1973]

Manning could have done the same thing with the Irsays that Elway did. That is not how the NFL draft works. If everyone thought the way Elway and Eli Manning did, the NFL wouldn't be as great as it is, and teams that are down, would have no hope of getting better. These two cats were only out for themselves, and it definately was not the right thing to do, and reflects poorly upon them.

Really? Eli has two rings, how many does rivers have?

[The Old Crow]

I don't care about the cap. Your totally missing my point. Cap or no cap, once Elway had a great all around team he won 2 Super Bowls. 

 

 

2 Super Bowls at the end of a career still doesn't get you number 1 of all time. He lost three times, and that puts him at 2-3.

[Dustin]

2 Super Bowls at the end of a career still doesn't get you number 1 of all time. He lost three times, and that puts him at 2-3.

 

Him dragging that terrible team to 3 Super Bowls is more impressive than Montana winning 4 with the most stacked team in league history. Like I said, Elway would have won 9 Super Bowls on that 49ers team. 

[The Old Crow]

Really? Eli has two rings, how many does rivers have?

 

 

What does Rivers have to do with it ? It doesn't excuse Eli from going around the system. It was wrong, despite the two Super Bowl rings. By the way, how can Eli Manning win 2 Super Bowls with less talent, than the Patriots, and other teams, but the great John  Elway can't on those older Bronco teams ? Interesting.

[The Old Crow]

Him dragging that terrible team to 3 Super Bowls is more impressive than Montana winning 4 with the most stacked team in league history. Like I said, Elway would have won 9 Super Bowls on that 49ers team. 

 

Namath, Dawson, and Eli Manning have dragged mediocre teams to Super Bowl wins, while Elway failed in his first three times. The fact of the matter is, he never played on those 49 teams, so we'll never know, and it's complete conjecture.

[Dustin]

What does Rivers have to do with it ? It doesn't excuse Eli from going around the system. It was wrong, despite the two Super Bowl rings. By the way, how can Eli Manning win 2 Super Bowls with less talent, than the Patriots, and other teams, but the great John  Elway can't on those older Bronco teams ? Interesting.

 

Without looking it up name one hall of famer on John Elway's first Super Bowl appearance besides Elway.

[Dustin]

Namath, Dawson, and Eli Manning have dragged mediocre teams to Super Bowl wins, while Elway failed in his first three times. The fact of the matter is, he never played on those 49 teams, so we'll never know, and it's complete conjecture.

 

The Broncos weren't mediocre. They were absolutely terrible. Not one above average player besides Elway. Eli is a terrible comparison because that's the post-salary cap era and Namath was a terrible QB that got lucky that his defense could hold the Colts to under 10.

[jvan1973]

What does Rivers have to do with it ? It doesn't excuse Eli from going around the system. It was wrong, despite the two Super Bowl rings. By the way, how can Eli Manning win 2 Super Bowls with less talent, than the Patriots, and other teams, but the great John Elway can't on those older Bronco teams ? Interesting.

The chargers front office was a mess. Everyone in the know thought so. Eli didn't want to play there. It was his choice, and it worked out great.

[DILLIGAFER]

QB: Peyton Manning

1st pick non QB: Lawrence Taylor

[The Old Crow]

Without looking it up name one hall of famer on John Elway's first Super Bowl appearance besides Elway.

 

 

I'm not that familar with the Denver Broncos from that era, but they had enough talent to get to the Super Bowl, Hall of Fame or not. Your big point is that Elway WOULD have won 9 Super Bowls or something had he played for the 49ers. Well , maybe Marino could have also, but it's all conjecture. The cold hard facts are that he is 2-3 in Super Bowls, and not worthy , for many reasons, to be the #1 pick.

[Dustin]

I'm not that familar with the Denver Broncos from that era, but they had enough talent to get to the Super Bowl, Hall of Fame or not. Your big point is that Elway WOULD have won 9 Super Bowls or something had he played for the 49ers. Well , maybe Marino could have also, but it's all conjecture. The cold hard facts are that he is 2-3 in Super Bowls, and not worthy , for many reasons, to be the #1 pick.

 

If you drafted Montana #1 overall those rings don't come with him. Elway was the better QB; Montana played on a better team. Teams win Super Bowls. If Super Bowl wins are your measuring stick for a QB success then Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino.

 

And for the record I also think Marino would have won multiple Super Bowls on that 49ers team.

[The Old Crow]

The chargers front office was a mess. Everyone in the know thought so. Eli didn't want to play there. It was his choice, and it worked out great.

 

So you're telling me every player being drafted that doesn't like the front office, should be able to choose where he wants to go ? Really ? Should we have a draft, a draft order, or do we just let guys go anywhere they want ? These guys were big babies, who didn't have the guts to go to losing franchises and turn them around. They, their agents, and daddies, took the easy road out. If everyone was as selfish as these guys, you would have chaos in the NFL.

[The Old Crow]

If you drafted Montana #1 overall those rings don't come with him. Elway was the better QB; Montana played on a better team. Teams win Super Bowls. If Super Bowl wins are your measuring stick for a QB success then Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino.

 

And for the record I also think Marino would have won multiple Super Bowls on that 49ers team.

 

 

Yes, teams do win Super Bowls, but you are contending that Elway is the #1 pick of all time. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume , and that is the team he choose to play for. He could have played for Baltimore, and maybe things would have been different. He made the choice to go to Denver by starting crap in the draft, and Montana went to the team that drafted him. He didn't know how it would turn out either, but he never tried to buck the system.

[The Old Crow]

If you drafted Montana #1 overall those rings don't come with him. Elway was the better QB; Montana played on a better team. Teams win Super Bowls. If Super Bowl wins are your measuring stick for a QB success then Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino.

 

And for the record I also think Marino would have won multiple Super Bowls on that 49ers team.

 

 

Again, by being a big baby and not going where drafted, Elway choose his own fate by playing in Denver. I'm not feeling so that he had supposedly no talent in those years, when he was the guy that engineered himself into going there. You can't have it both ways !

[jvan1973]

So you're telling me every player being drafted that doesn't like the front office, should be able to choose where he wants to go ? Really ? Should we have a draft, a draft order, or do we just let guys go anywhere they want ? These guys were big babies, who didn't have the guts to go to losing franchises and turn them around. They, their agents, and daddies, took the easy road out. If everyone was as selfish as these guys, you would have chaos in the NFL.

The giants also had a bad team. Its not like Eli ended up on a great team. he just didn't want to play for the chargers. Seeing how that team had been run i can't see how anyone could blame him

[amfootball]

Yes, teams do win Super Bowls, but you are contending that Elway is the #1 pick of all time. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume , and that is the team he choose to play for. He could have played for Baltimore, and maybe things would have been different. He made the choice to go to Denver by starting crap in the draft, and Montana went to the team that drafted him. He didn't know how it would turn out either, but he never tried to buck the system.

I am with you on Elway and Eli. Never liked the fact that they were able to opt out of the teams that wanted them. I really believe Eli would have been more successful in San Diego than NY. Just my opinion but the charger teams in '04-10 were stacked. He could have easily won 2 or more bowls there.

 

But I think you are selling Elway short on resume. Only he and Brady have ever started five SBs. That is a heck of an accomplishment in itself and as I pointed out before both he and Brady took teams with no HoF talent to 3 out of 4 bowls. I realize Elway lost all of his but that was pre cap/fa era and the broncos had half the payroll of the niners, giants, etc.

[jvan1973]

Yes, teams do win Super Bowls, but you are contending that Elway is the #1 pick of all time. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume , and that is the team he choose to play for. He could have played for Baltimore, and maybe things would have been different. He made the choice to go to Denver by starting crap in the draft, and Montana went to the team that drafted him. He didn't know how it would turn out either, but he never tried to buck the system.

First off Elway didn't choose Denver. The colts gm wasn't going to trade him. Bob irsay made the trade.

Second Joe Montana was a third rounder, not number one overall

[The Old Crow]

The giants also had a bad team. Its not like Eli ended up on a great team. he just didn't want to play for the chargers. Seeing how that team had been run i can't see how anyone could blame him

 

 

The Chargers ended up with a pretty good team had he stayed. I think he was looking for the lucrative marketing of the big apple. It doesn't make it right.

[The Old Crow]

I am with you on Elway and Eli. Never liked the fact that they were able to opt out of the teams that wanted them. I really believe Eli would have been more successful in San Diego than NY. Just my opinion but the charger teams in '04-10 were stacked. He could have easily won 2 or more bowls there.

 

But I think you are selling Elway short on resume. Only he and Brady have ever started five SBs. That is a heck of an accomplishment in itself and as I pointed out before both he and Brady took teams with no HoF talent to 3 out of 4 bowls. I realize Elway lost all of his but that was pre cap/fa era and the broncos had half the payroll of the niners, giants, etc.

 

 

I'm not saying Elway wasn't a great quarterback, but I don't think he is the #1 overall pick because of character issues, and coming up short 3 out of 5 times in the big game. I also concede Brady is a great quarterback, but he never got blown out in a Super Bowl like Elway did three times. Good quarterback, but below worthiness for #1 pick for many reasons.

[SilentHill]

Leon Sandcastle