Finally a offense scheme that fits LUCK

[Gavin]

Collie is 20lbs heavier and taller than Whalen.

Its all speculation tot his point as to who will make the roster and who wont but Whalen knows the offense and was productive in it his senior year plus he has a nack for getting open underneath which is needed in the WCO

[TKnight24]

Its all speculation tot his point as to who will make the roster and who wont but Whalen knows the offense and was productive in it his senior year plus he has a nack for getting open underneath which is needed in the WCO

Agreed. I hope he really makes the Team. I'd like to hear "Luck to Whalen" a few more times

[GoColts8818]

Finally?  He's been here one year and made the playoffs, went to the Pro-Bowl, and could win Rookie of the Year tonight.  The title makes it sound like this has been an on going problem for years and that he didn't fit this offense at all.  While he might be better fitted for a West Coast Offense it's pretty hard to say he didn't excel in the offense he was in this past year as a rookie QB.  I like the tweaks that the West Coast Offense will bring but at the sametime I am sure after a few games people are going to have complaints about it just like they did with Arians' offense.  There isn't an offense in the world that is perfect that people wont find something to complain about.

[braveheartcolt]

And I'm pretty sure running a WCO in college will not be like running it in the pro's. This is all conjecture, and he could fair worse for all we know. And I don't really care. Give him a half decent o-line and he'll prosper, full stop.  

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

If they use that lame excuse, then everything RG3 did is the same. Only difference is they ran that read option a bit more than he did at Baylor. Let them talk. Like chuck said, we'll be hoisting the Lombardi a few times.

exactly

[TKnight24]

Finally? He's been here one year and made the playoffs, went to the Pro-Bowl, and could win Rookie of the Year tonight. The title makes it sound like this has been an on going problem for years and that he didn't fit this offense at all. While he might be better fitted for a West Coast Offense it's pretty hard to say he didn't excel in the offense he was in this past year as a rookie QB. I like the tweaks that the West Coast Offense will bring but at the sametime I am sure after a few games people are going to have complaints about it just like they did with Arians' offense. There isn't an offense in the world that is perfect that people wont find something to complain about.

Don't ya just LOVE the Human Race? Everyone's a Critic

[throwing BBZ]

It IS all about getting Open. Then it is all about the hands. Then it is all about holding on to the ball after Big Hits.

I`ll take a Bigger receiver over a smurf anyday.

Not that I don`t like anyone who produces and can stay on the field.

We can only hope the decision on who makes the final cut is difficult for a good reason.

[John Dee]

IMO, Whalen was on his way to making the team last season and Brazil was looking at the PS...

A lot of people keep bringing up Whalen. I'll be surprised if he makes the roster and if he does, it will be as the final WR. I don't see him as a special teams contributor which hurts his case. He'll be competing with Reggie, TY, Brazil, Palmer, Sambrono, Kelley, and a rookie and FA or two. Who do you think Whalen, who is short, small, and slow, will unseat?

[Poeticwisdom555]

The short passes will help build his accuracy and hopefully bring down his interceptions.

[Slick_Rick]

I hope we still take a few shots deep.

[unitaswestand]

Well, I think the poster's point was that Luck was miscast last year.  Had Arians remained, I think we would have seen Luck take a beating for 4-5 years until the offense was finally changed.   This was the change I was looking for and hoping for.  i strongly believe that the offense next year will be much more consistent. The long ball is great last year, but it was very much hit or miss.  If the offensive line is addressed, I look forward to Allen and Fleener torching defenses.  Good post!

[Captain Americolt]

A lot of people keep bringing up Whalen. I'll be surprised if he makes the roster and if he does, it will be as the final WR. I don't see him as a special teams contributor which hurts his case. He'll be competing with Reggie, TY, Brazil, Palmer, Sambrono, Kelley, and a rookie and FA or two. Who do you think Whalen, who is short, small, and slow, will unseat?

You just described Welker. Everyone has to start somewhere. Also weight doen'st really matter much for WRS...

 

  

 

 

They are both around 6 ft (Collie and Whalen). Who looks stronger and more durable? They have almost exactly the same speed too. I think Collie's actually slower. 

[BOTT]

Well, I think the poster's point was that Luck was miscast last year.  Had Arians remained, I think we would have seen Luck take a beating for 4-5 years until the offense was finally changed.   This was the change I was looking for and hoping for.  i strongly believe that the offense next year will be much more consistent. The long ball is great last year, but it was very much hit or miss.  If the offensive line is addressed, I look forward to Allen and Fleener torching defenses.  Good post!

This...the average sacks for offenses led by Arians is 43...at least that's what they said on espn. Good luck Kevin Kolb

[sultan5]

everyone should just calm down about the WC differences. Even though Hamiltons offense will have WC traits, Grigsons main offensive philosophy is speed, right? So it would only make sense no matter the Offenive Coordinator, we have a WR stable full of burners: Avery 4.27, Hilton 4.32, Palmer 4.30, Brazill 4.36, so obviously we would make adjustments to any given offense to compliment our speedsters. I think Hamiltons offense will have alot  of Arians in it. simply because our guys fit it well, we've already spent a year drafting for it, and our WR's already know how to run it. plus, Luck has a strong arm and can handle any throw. Grigson LOVES speed and he loves the Big Play, I dont think Grigson, Pagano, or Irsay will let Hamilton treat a Colts offense like a college team playing it safe. We have way too moch speed for that.

[willysp]

I hope we still take a few shots deep.

He threw a pretty nice deep ball at the Probowl. I think a key problem with deep balls last season was that he just plain did not have enough time in the pocket before the o-line collapsed around him, so he was off balance and threw moonballs.

[Larry Horseman]

You just described Welker. Everyone has to start somewhere. Also weight doen'st really matter much for WRS...

They are both around 6 ft (Collie and Whalen). Who looks stronger and more durable? They have almost exactly the same speed too. I think Collie's actually slower.

All I'm saying is that size wise he is like every other WR who was on the Colts roster last year except Wayne and he is slower than them. He will have to unseat someone who either produced on offense, ST, or the PS to make the team. And that is if the FO doesn't bring in FAs or rookies to seriously compete. What's so hard to understand about this? Sure he could be the next Welker but it's much more likely he will be the next player who never becomes a household name. I just don't understand all the love for an undrafted WR who had less than 1100 career receiving yards and 5 TDs in college with the best QB in the nation playing with him. He isn't even in the same conversation of college production as Collie (who had almost 3300 yards and 30 TDs), and he caught 12 passes for 125 yards in the preseason against second and third stingers last year. Nothing about any of this objectively says star in the making.

[will426]

He threw a pretty nice deep ball at the Probowl. I think a key problem with deep balls last season was that he just plain did not have enough time in the pocket before the o-line collapsed around him, so he was off balance and threw moonballs.

and still when some of those moonballs well perfect I believe our receivers did not have the hands to catch it. (mainly avery)

[Captain Americolt]

All I'm saying is that size wise he is like every other WR who was on the Colts roster last year except Wayne and he is slower than them. He will have to unseat someone who either produced on offense, ST, or the PS to make the team. And that is if the FO doesn't bring in FAs or rookies to seriously compete. What's so hard to understand about this? Sure he could be the next Welker but it's much more likely he will be the next player who never becomes a household name. I just don't understand all the love for an undrafted WR who had less than 1100 career receiving yards and 5 TDs in college with the best QB in the nation playing with him. He isn't even in the same conversation of college production as Collie (who had almost 3300 yards and 30 TDs), and he caught 12 passes for 125 yards in the preseason against second and third stingers last year. Nothing about any of this objectively says star in the making.

I'm not calling him a star in the making. And him having trouble unseating Sambrano, Palmer, and Kelley? There's a reason he was stashed on IR despite not having a seasons-ending type injury. Also, you have to take into account that he played at Stanford, not BYU, a power running team that is used to playing from ahead. Not even Fleener, 2nd round pick, had great college career numbers. Luck never cracked 4k passing yards in a season in college. There wasnt enough opportunites to put up gaudy numbers. It also doesnt matter what he did in college. This is the NFL. What I saw was a player that consistently got separation and caught the ball cleanly. We'll see how this turns out. But i'm sure he wont have trouble passing those guys.

[Gavin]

and still when some of those moonballs well perfect I believe our receivers did not have the hands to catch it. (mainly avery)

Actually it was Wayne that dropped the most balls followed by Avery

[smackdown]

So, what's the over/under for Luck's INTs next year?

[Dustin]

So, what's the over/under for Luck's INTs next year?

 

Wow you're obnoxious.

[NewEra]

So, what's the over/under for Luck's INTs next year?

Well since we will be running a more high percentage offense, since that's what football is all about....obviously. He will show why he was the #1 pick and giving the Roy to rg3 was a flat out joke. Can we say large market driven? Can't be anymore blatant than that.

[ColtsHappy]

Should Reggie decide to go elsewhere (he won't) he will still have to learn a new offense!!!

 

He learns a new offense no matter where he is.

 

ColtsHappy

[will426]

Actually it was Wayne that dropped the most balls followed by Avery

eh true but Wayne has an excuse constantly has defenders draped over him...avery could rarely catch a slant when corners played off him. Given a chance I believe Brazil can take his role.

[ColtsHappy]

Let's all remember - when it comes to receivers, it is not all about speed, height, athleticism or really any other specific attribute, it's about being EXTREMELY intelligent and being able to outthink and outsmart the other guy in figuring out how to GET OPEN against a variety of great players, schemes and overall defenses!

 

Any of us can name receivers who really are not that gifted physically - but they still manage to have in some cases - sensational careers because they play extremely smart. I have no doubt that if Griff Whalen emerges healthy he will eventually prove himself to be a monster receiver for us.

 

BassHappy

[GrizzColt]

Kind of surprised by all the love for Whalen .. fleener is the one who should blow up next year and I fully expect him to. Reggie, Hilton, Fleener, Allen and Ballard should all get touches leaving few for anyone else.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton said he expects to use more of a west coast offense next season. "It'll be a variation of the West Coast (with) West Coast principles,'' Hamilton said. "The short, efficient passing game, a high completion rate." Hamilton ran the west coast offense at Stanford with QB Andrew Luck.

 

Im glad, i could easily see his completion rating go up by about 9% and his sacks and hurries go down considerably i just hope are running game could be as good as it was this year or better (just saying that because it the best its been since 2007 i think)

 

I agree

 

Ryan Grigson  hit a home run with the hiring of Pep Hamilton . I liked Bruce Arians  , #12  did pretty good in his system but took to much abuse .

 

In a Pep Hamiltons  hybrid WCO with a few additions to the playbook from the B.A era , I expect #12 to outshine #18 in 2013 . Of course my inner Homer just typed that.

[NewEra]

Back on topic. The more I think about it the more I like the pep highering.

Like manning, he now has an OC who is willing to work WITH him rather than my way or the highway. They already have experience with each other and was letting Luck run the no huddle. I think one of Lucks beat trait is being able to read defenses and put him team in the right plays. His brain is what separates himself from others.

I'm really glad we brought in Pep cause I think with him and Luck we will see the best of both worlds. Combining what he learned under Roman, what Luck learned and liked under BA. I look for Luck to have a huge huge year next year. Hard to top what he did this year. But I think we got our hands on a amazing qb who is going to come in and rock the NFLs foundation!

[Larry Horseman]

I'm not calling him a star in the making. And him having trouble unseating Sambrano, Palmer, and Kelley? There's a reason he was stashed on IR despite not having a seasons-ending type injury. Also, you have to take into account that he played at Stanford, not BYU, a power running team that is used to playing from ahead. Not even Fleener, 2nd round pick, had great college career numbers. Luck never cracked 4k passing yards in a season in college. There wasnt enough opportunites to put up gaudy numbers. It also doesnt matter what he did in college. This is the NFL. What I saw was a player that consistently got separation and caught the ball cleanly. We'll see how this turns out. But i'm sure he wont have trouble passing those guys.

You actually did compare him to Collie and Welker, so yes, you are inferring he is a star in the making (Collie's star didn't burn long but it was bright). You're making excuses for his college production. Both Luck and Fleener produced at a high level. There's a reason he was a UDFA. Do you think Whalen will excell on ST? The #4 and 5 WRs must do that. Also, you see him in the slot, right? Wouldn't it be better if we had some more size/depth to play on the outside?

[Gavin]

You actually did compare him to Collie and Welker, so yes, you are inferring he is a star in the making (Collie's star didn't burn long but it was bright). You're making excuses for his college production. Both Luck and Fleener produced at a high level. There's a reason he was a UDFA. Do you think Whalen will excell on ST? The #4 and 5 WRs must do that. Also, you see him in the slot, right? Wouldn't it be better if we had some more size/depth to play on the outside?

He does compare to Welker and Collie in the sense that he has a nack for getting open on underneath short routes, clearly the production is not there that Collie or Welker has had that is not even debatable, but a guy that can get open quickly on underneath short routes is needed in a WCO, does that mean he will be an every down player? no but Palmer barely saw the field for a reason, route running and running after the catch needs alot of work, check out his only catch of the season vs the Jets, he tried to bounce a play outside when it should have went inside and showed indecisiveness doing it, and he lost 4 yards because of it

[Larry Horseman]

He does compare to Welker and Collie in the sense that he has a nack for getting open on underneath short routes clearly the production is not there that Collie or Welker has had that is not even debatable, but a guy that can get open quickly on underneath short routes is needed in a WCO, does that mean he will be an every down player? no but Palmer barely saw the field for a reason, route running and running after the catch needs alot of work, check out his only catch of the season vs the Jets, be bounced a play outside when it should have went inside and showed indecisiveness doing, and he lost 4 yards because of it

So basically Whalen is going to dominate the league next year. Got it...

[Gavin]

So basically Whalen is going to dominate the league next year. Got it...

ok so you are being a little overdramatic 

[Larry Horseman]

ok so you are being a little overdramatic 

I'm not the one making it sound like he is the second coming of Welker. I think me questioning if he will make the roster is very reasonable and level headed. All of you are inflating him with your comparisons and making it sound like he is a lock to make the roster, which just isn't the case. Also, about Palmer, he was a major contributor on ST. That's why he was on the team.

[BOTT]

Let's all remember - when it comes to receivers, it is not all about speed, height, athleticism or really any other specific attribute, it's about being EXTREMELY intelligent and being able to outthink and outsmart the other guy in figuring out how to GET OPEN against a variety of great players, schemes and overall defenses!

 

Any of us can name receivers who really are not that gifted physically - but they still manage to have in some cases - sensational careers because they play extremely smart. I have no doubt that if Griff Whalen emerges healthy he will eventually prove himself to be a monster receiver for us.

 

BassHappy

Extremely intelligent? I don't equate that with most NFL players

[Gavin]

I'm not the one making it sound like he is the second coming of Welker. I think me questioning if he will make the roster is very reasonable and level headed. All of you are inflating him with your comparisons and making it sound like he is a lock to make the roster, which just isn't the case. Also, about Palmer, he was a major contributor on ST. That's why he was on the team.

I dont think he is a lock but pretty close

[Captain Americolt]

You actually did compare him to Collie and Welker, so yes, you are inferring he is a star in the making (Collie's star didn't burn long but it was bright). You're making excuses for his college production. Both Luck and Fleener produced at a high level. There's a reason he was a UDFA. Do you think Whalen will excell on ST? The #4 and 5 WRs must do that. Also, you see him in the slot, right? Wouldn't it be better if we had some more size/depth to play on the outside?

Ok. I was comparing Collie's and Whalen's measurables. As for Welker, I was comparing what you said about him being too slow, light, and short. I said good receivers have to start out somewhere. You really need to understand better if you think I said he was a star in the making. As for excuses about his production, he did nothing his 1st two years. He just lead Stanford in receiving this past year, even more than Fleener. I think he'd be decent on ST, like Palmer who was barely noticeable. 

[Captain Americolt]

So basically Whalen is going to dominate the league next year. Got it...

I think you have trouble understanding what others are saying. 

First you claim I said he was a star in the making because I compared his measurables to Collie and the fact that he started out his career like Welker. 

Now Gavin gives you a reason why he thinks he could be a good WR, and you exaggerate by saying he's gonna dominate next year.....

[GoColts8818]

I think Whalen has a chance to make the roster and clearly there is talent there or the Colts wouldn't have gone out of their way to keep him.  Also if we are moving to a more WC type of offense then I think a guy like Whalen might very well help the Colts.  We do need a fourth WR next year if we don't keep Avery so there is going to be an open spot on the roster because you do need a back up WR on the roster that is here for his WR skills and could even be used in specific packages.  If we go get another WR threw free agency (and that included keeping Avery) or draft one then I think Whalen might get caught up in the numbers game unless he is really good at Special Teams.  Once you get to a fifth WR on the roster that is where that guy is going to help is most cases so odds are that a team will keep a fifth WR that can play special teams and might not be the best WR in the world.  It's how Taj Smith made the team a few years ago and even Wilkins in his second stint with the Colts was here because he was a return man and very rarely if at all used as a WR on that second go around. 

 

I don't think you can just dismiss Whalen's chances of being on the roster next year and maybe even being a big contributor to the team next year but I also don't think you can say he's a lock to make the roster or close to a lock either.  It's going to depend on what moves the Colts make in free agency in the draft.  They might shock us all and just re-sign Avery.  I am not saying that's what I would do but it's an option. 

[ColtsHappy]

Extremely intelligent? I don't equate that with most NFL players

Aha - You are correct BLOODontheTRACKS - MOST NFL players are not, of course - but the great ones - especially the skill players on the offensive side of the ball - who separate themselves from the pack generally are  - or they better be - or else they need to have at the very least a highly polished skill set and the instincts and mental ability to shift gears on a split seconds notice....

 

Griff doing as well as he did at Stanford academically tells me he is an extremely intelligent dude, especially if he roomed and hung profusely with Andrew....

 

Comment as you see fit...

 

BassHappy

[BOTT]

Aha - You are correct BLOODontheTRACKS - MOST NFL players are not, of course - but the great ones - especially the skill players on the offensive side of the ball - who separate themselves from the pack generally are  - or they better be - or else they need to have at the very least a highly polished skill set and the instincts and mental ability to shift gears on a split seconds notice....

 

Griff doing as well as he did at Stanford academically tells me he is an extremely intelligent dude, especially if he roomed and hung profusely with Andrew....

 

Comment as you see fit...

 

BassHappy

I would agree with highly polished skill set and great instincts.