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How Much Do We Really Have in Cap Space For FAs?


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#81 Indyboy757

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:17 AM

 

I don't know where your getting you're figures, but they are not correct. It's well documented the Colts have 46 million in cap space and we absolutely will spend right around 10 million or more on our own free agents. Also the amount we have to spend is 89% of the cap and even that is questionable. The rule states that we must spend 89% over a 4 yr. period and not necessarily 89% each yr..

Brother please do some digging because in all we have 57m and who do you see use resigning cause unless we bring back Freeney we wont top any where close to 10m just go back and look at the old contracts for our FA. You could be right on the amount of cap we have to spend, but I know its in the 90s as well but we will know for sure in a few months

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#82 Balzer40

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

 Brother please do some digging because in all we have 57m and who do you see use resigning cause unless we bring back Freeney we wont top any where close to 10m just go back and look at the old contracts for our FA. You could be right on the amount of cap we have to spend, but I know its in the 90s as well but we will know for sure in a few months

 

 

 

Oh, I've done plenty of digging. Here's a projected cap space for each team.

 

http://nfltraderumor...am-cap-space-6/

 

Here' who I think we could possibly resign and remember, even if we don't sign all these guys we still need to sign others to make up for those we don't.

 

Shipley

Justice

McAfee

Butler

Fokou

Moala

A. Johnson

Linkenbach

 

Now, that is just 8 guys and I could see maybe 2 more, but I'll leave them off the list for arguments sake. McAfee will be the most expensive at around 3 million per season. Even at barely over the vet minimum for the rest of them as an average you're talking about another 4 - 5 million. We have 23 total FA's on the roster, but we already got some guys signed to future contract and those contracts will easily account for a few million dollars.

 

 

As for the bolded part of your post, I'm not really sure what you're saying, but if you mean that we need to spend 90+ percent of our cap, then thats not right. CBA rules say starting in 2013 that teams must spend 89% of the cap over a 4 yr. period. We do not need to spend 89% this yr..

 

Here's the language from the CBA:

Section 9. Minimum Team Cash Spending:
(a) For each of the following four-League Year periods, 2013–2016 and 2017–2020, there shall be a guaranteed Minimum Team Cash Spending of 89% of the Salary Caps for such periods (e.g., if the Salary Caps for the 2013–16 and 2017–2020 are $100, 120, 130, and 150 million, respectively, each Club shall have a Minimum Team Cash Spending for that period of $445 million (89% of $500 million)).


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#83 Indyboy757

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

Ok brother nice quote so you do know what your talking about. The way I see it 89% or 90% close enough but I thouht it was based on a season rather then a four year span, with that sayed what amount do we need to spend this offseason? I don't know how to pull other articles up here like you just did but I have found over 7 sites all stating our cap space anywhere from 42m to 57m. The 57m I found on Indystar. I looked up the past contracts of the FAs you listed and minus McAfee their combined salary for 2012 was 5-6m give or take.

Shipley-465k

Justice-1.5m

Butler-770k

Fokou-615k

Moala-615k

A. Johnson-1.25m

Linkenbach-540k

Out of this group I only see us re-signing Butler maybe Shipley, but your right McAfee will cast the most. Our other FAs wont be close to these numbers so to set the number at 10m to resign our own is a bit high to me. You seem to know a great deal when it comes to the CBA so my question is in 2014 does the cap for every team go up and what will that mean for us come next  offseason 2014?



#84 Balzer40

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:24 AM

Ok brother nice quote so you do know what your talking about. The way I see it 89% or 90% close enough but I thouht it was based on a season rather then a four year span, with that sayed what amount do we need to spend this offseason? I don't know how to pull other articles up here like you just did but I have found over 7 sites all stating our cap space anywhere from 42m to 57m. The 57m I found on Indystar. I looked up the past contracts of the FAs you listed and minus McAfee their combined salary for 2012 was 5-6m give or take.

Shipley-465k

Justice-1.5m

Butler-770k

Fokou-615k

Moala-615k

A. Johnson-1.25m

Linkenbach-540k

Out of this group I only see us re-signing Butler maybe Shipley, but your right McAfee will cast the most. Our other FAs wont be close to these numbers so to set the number at 10m to resign our own is a bit high to me. You seem to know a great deal when it comes to the CBA so my question is in 2014 does the cap for every team go up and what will that mean for us come next  offseason 2014?

 

 

 

The 46 million that is projected right now could fluctuate I suppose depending on whether the Colts cut any veterans that are currently under contract. With that said, I don't see anyway that it gets up to 57 million, that would be a huge jump based on the way contracts are structured.

 

I still believe we'll sign more of our own free agents than some think we will. With 23 current free agents, if we only resign a few of them its going to be awful hard to find so many guys that can come in and play for us. Remember, even though were talking mostly backups with our free agents, at least they know and are familiar with the system.

 

As for the salary cap for 2014, it hasn't been set as of right now. I've read on some websites that the 2014 salary cap is supposed to jump significantly, but then there are others that say it will only increase by a very small amount.


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#85 Superman

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

The 46 million that is projected right now could fluctuate I suppose depending on whether the Colts cut any veterans that are currently under contract. With that said, I don't see anyway that it gets up to 57 million, that would be a huge jump based on the way contracts are structured.

 

I still believe we'll sign more of our own free agents than some think we will. With 23 current free agents, if we only resign a few of them its going to be awful hard to find so many guys that can come in and play for us. Remember, even though were talking mostly backups with our free agents, at least they know and are familiar with the system.

 

As for the salary cap for 2014, it hasn't been set as of right now. I've read on some websites that the 2014 salary cap is supposed to jump significantly, but then there are others that say it will only increase by a very small amount.

 

The 2013 salary number for our team could go up, depending on whether we have any carryover from 2012 due to unearned incentives, or depending on how far under the cap we wound up being for the year. $57m seems way too high, though.


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#86 Balzer40

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:27 PM

The 2013 salary number for our team could go up, depending on whether we have any carryover from 2012 due to unearned incentives, or depending on how far under the cap we wound up being for the year. $57m seems way too high, though.

 

 

 

Yeah, thats what I was thinking too.


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#87 Gavin

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

The 46 million that is projected right now could fluctuate I suppose depending on whether the Colts cut any veterans that are currently under contract. With that said, I don't see anyway that it gets up to 57 million, that would be a huge jump based on the way contracts are structured.

 

I still believe we'll sign more of our own free agents than some think we will. With 23 current free agents, if we only resign a few of them its going to be awful hard to find so many guys that can come in and play for us. Remember, even though were talking mostly backups with our free agents, at least they know and are familiar with the system.

 

As for the salary cap for 2014, it hasn't been set as of right now. I've read on some websites that the 2014 salary cap is supposed to jump significantly, but then there are others that say it will only increase by a very small amount.

I see us resigning 10-11 players

 

1.Moala(Backup)

2.Butler(Nickel)

3.Mcafee

4.A Johnson(Backup if Chapman is healthy)

5.Justice(Backup)

6.Linkenbach(Backup)

7.Shipley(Potential starter, hopefully anyway)

8.Fokou(Backup)

9.Reitz (Backup)

10.Outside shot on Avery

11.Collie or Gordy



#88 Balzer40

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

I see us resigning 10-11 players

 

1.Moala(Backup)

2.Butler(Nickel)

3.Mcafee

4.A Johnson(Backup if Chapman is healthy)

5.Justice(Backup)

6.Linkenbach(Backup)

7.Shipley(Potential starter, hopefully anyway)

8.Fokou(Backup)

9.Reitz (Backup)

10.Outside shot on Avery

11.Collie or Gordy

 

 

 

This is about how many I think we'll bring back too. I can see 8 at the very least and as many as 12.


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#89 NewEra

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

This is about how many I think we'll bring back too. I can see 8 at the very least and as many as 12.

.

I wouldn't mind the top 9. Although if we could sin some better starter material olinemen I would be ok with signing cheaper back ups.
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#90 Indyboy757

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

Indystar is saying we have 14 FAs right now, who are the other? if we only have 14 FA this off season I think 8 is to high a number of guys that should be resigned when I looked at the 14 that were listed in the artical. Most out of the 14 players are unimpressive or injury prone. I just don't see us spending 10m to resign our own.

#91 NewColtsFan

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Ok brother nice quote so you do know what your talking about. The way I see it 89% or 90% close enough but I thouht it was based on a season rather then a four year span, with that sayed what amount do we need to spend this offseason? I don't know how to pull other articles up here like you just did but I have found over 7 sites all stating our cap space anywhere from 42m to 57m. The 57m I found on Indystar. 

 

Your find of $57 million in available cap money is the first anyone has seen.

 

The three most quoted cap numbers are $47 Mill, $46 Mill and $43 Mill (that one was from yesterday on NFL.com)

 

I don't see how $57 is remotely possible.    If you see that story again, would you please link that.   I'd love to see it, and I'm sure others would too.    Either way,  thanks for calling it to our attention.  

 

Still,  I'm skeptical....

 

I think mid-40's is the area that seems the most likely.    For what it's worth,  I'm guessing we'll spend most of, but not all of that.  Roughly $40 Mill of the available money.    Just my hunch....



#92 schwamm

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

Indystar is saying we have 14 FAs right now, who are the other? if we only have 14 FA this off season I think 8 is to high a number of guys that should be resigned when I looked at the 14 that were listed in the artical. Most out of the 14 players are unimpressive or injury prone. I just don't see us spending 10m to resign our own.

Here's a link to a thread with free agent info...  click here


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#93 Indyboy757

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:24 AM

http://bleacherrepor...kdown-for-colts I have broke down our 2013 salary for every player under contract. For offence we will spend 30,213,910 and on D 33,554,132. Total is 63,768,042 and with the cap set at 121,000,000, that leaves us with 57,231,960 so my question is, were is 14m that to me seems to be missing. How did we get to the 43M number which everyone says we will have? Is there dead money or contracts that are not listed in this article?



#94 ÅÐØNϧ 1

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

http://bleacherrepor...kdown-for-colts I have broke down our 2013 salary for every player under contract. For offence we will spend 30,213,910 and on D 33,554,132. Total is 63,768,042 and with the cap set at 121,000,000, that leaves us with 57,231,960 so my question is, were is 14m that to me seems to be missing. How did we get to the 43M number which everyone says we will have? Is there dead money or contracts that are not listed in this article?

Under the rules of the new
collective bargaining agreement, teams had to designate how much money
they wanted to carry over to the 2013 salary cap. The carryover
provisions are new and important.

 

The Colts carried over 3.5 mil from 2012 .


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#95 NewColtsFan

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:26 PM

http://bleacherrepor...kdown-for-colts I have broke down our 2013 salary for every player under contract. For offence we will spend 30,213,910 and on D 33,554,132. Total is 63,768,042 and with the cap set at 121,000,000, that leaves us with 57,231,960 so my question is, were is 14m that to me seems to be missing. How did we get to the 43M number which everyone says we will have? Is there dead money or contracts that are not listed in this article?

 

I think you're missing something....    I think you're not factoring in various bonuses...   signing bonus, roster bonus, workout bonus, escalator clauses.... 

 

Our available money to spend is in the mid-40's.    In the past few weeks, NFL.com has put out their latest revision on salary cap numbers and the figure for the Colts was $43 Mill and change.    That's down a bit from earlier in the 2012 season when it was reported in the neighborhood of $46-47 mill. 

 

But there is no one reporting $57 Mill.     I know you said IndyStar,  but I think that's incorrect.   IndyStar has been reporting in the mid-40's for months.

 

Again, if you can provide a link for us to see,  great.....     otherwise.....



#96 dw49

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

Oh, I've done plenty of digging. Here's a projected cap space for each team.

 

http://nfltraderumor...am-cap-space-6/

 

Here' who I think we could possibly resign and remember, even if we don't sign all these guys we still need to sign others to make up for those we don't.

 

Shipley

Justice

McAfee

Butler

Fokou

Moala

A. Johnson

Linkenbach

 

Now, that is just 8 guys and I could see maybe 2 more, but I'll leave them off the list for arguments sake. McAfee will be the most expensive at around 3 million per season. Even at barely over the vet minimum for the rest of them as an average you're talking about another 4 - 5 million. We have 23 total FA's on the roster, but we already got some guys signed to future contract and those contracts will easily account for a few million dollars.

 

 

As for the bolded part of your post, I'm not really sure what you're saying, but if you mean that we need to spend 90+ percent of our cap, then thats not right. CBA rules say starting in 2013 that teams must spend 89% of the cap over a 4 yr. period. We do not need to spend 89% this yr..

 

 

 

You are way off on figufring "barely over vet min" for everyone but McAfee. Justice wil get somewhere in the 2 mill range with no problem. Shipley will get a nice little deal after playing so well for us. Moala .. I don't know as he has an injury factor . Butler will be over the vet min.  I see no way in heck you will sign those 8 guys for an average of 5-600K unless of coarse you back load the contracts.



#97 Balzer40

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

You are way off on figufring "barely over vet min" for everyone but McAfee. Justice wil get somewhere in the 2 mill range with no problem. Shipley will get a nice little deal after playing so well for us. Moala .. I don't know as he has an injury factor . Butler will be over the vet min.  I see no way in heck you will sign those 8 guys for an average of 5-600K unless of coarse you back load the contracts.

 

 

I think you are seriously overvaluing players. No way any of the guy's I talked about gets much over vet min. When I say barely over vet min. I mean 1 mil or less on average. Besides McAfee and perhaps Justice, none of the guys I listed gets more than that.  You're dreaming if you Shipley gets anything over 600k as an average.


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#98 krunk

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:17 PM

I wonder how the release of Freeney and Collie impacts the cap? Or does it at all?

#99 Indyboy757

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:36 AM

I think you're missing something....    I think you're not factoring in various bonuses...   signing bonus, roster bonus, workout bonus, escalator clauses.... 

 

Our available money to spend is in the mid-40's.    In the past few weeks, NFL.com has put out their latest revision on salary cap numbers and the figure for the Colts was $43 Mill and change.    That's down a bit from earlier in the 2012 season when it was reported in the neighborhood of $46-47 mill. 

 

But there is no one reporting $57 Mill.     I know you said IndyStar,  but I think that's incorrect.   IndyStar has been reporting in the mid-40's for months.

 

Again, if you can provide a link for us to see,  great.....     otherwise.....

I clearly understand what everyone else is reporting our cap to be and yes I'm sure they are accurate, but using this link that I did put up here which breaks down every player under contracts pay. The funny thing is when you add up the amounts we will pay on Offence-$30,213.910 and Defence-$33,554.132 which is 63,768.042 and subtract that amounts from $121Mill I get  57,231.910. I just like to understand things rather then taking others word. I know I'm missing something but I dont think its signing bonuses, not amounting to 14Mill. I'm not saying we should have 57Mill all I'm saying is can someone tell me what I'm missing without guessing. 



#100 Indyboy757

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:41 AM

Under the rules of the new
collective bargaining agreement, teams had to designate how much money
they wanted to carry over to the 2013 salary cap. The carryover
provisions are new and important.

 

The Colts carried over 3.5 mil from 2012 .

The carry over number that your talking about has nothing to do with the $14mill that I'm not able to find.



#101 MikeVander

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:15 AM

@Indyboy757

 

From the website you provided, I added them up and got 72m spent on players. So I think you left out a group when you added it. Our cap space is more like 77m as we still have about 5m in dead money left over to give. Then you can see 121m-77m = 44m


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#102 Indyboy757

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:04 AM

@Indyboy757

 

From the website you provided, I added them up and got 72m spent on players. So I think you left out a group when you added it. Our cap space is more like 77m as we still have about 5m in dead money left over to give. Then you can see 121m-77m = 44m

 

Ok well I just checked my math and I'm still coming up with the same figures so I'll just write it out and maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

TOTALS

QB-$1,874.909

RB-$5,262.441

WR-$9,403.325

TE-$2,950.908

OL-$4,725.434

Interior Line-$5,996.667

 

comes to $30,213.684 for the offence

 

DL-$9,072.823

LB-$17,875.059

CB-$2,726.250

S-$ ok you are right I see I left out the Safty's.

S-9,279.667

ST-$3,880.000

comes to $42,833.799 which is $73,047.483 in total, so yes you are right thinks for taking the time to help me break this down but hell i'm still off at $73M but at least I know what I was doing wrong, know I have to see why im missing $4M.Thanks Mike



#103 MikeVander

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:28 AM

The 4m is in dead money, which is the money lost after cutting a player. Almost all of it is from cutting Gary Brackett. 


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#104 Indyboy757

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:15 AM

Ok is that the 3.5 we carried over from 2013? Thinks man at least I can tell you know what your talking about.



#105 Kirie89

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:03 AM

Ok well I just checked my math and I'm still coming up with the same figures so I'll just write it out and maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

TOTALS

QB-$1,874.909

RB-$5,262.441

WR-$9,403.325

TE-$2,950.908

OL-$4,725.434

Interior Line-$5,996.667

 

comes to $30,213.684 for the offence

 

DL-$9,072.823

LB-$17,875.059

CB-$2,726.250

S-$ ok you are right I see I left out the Safty's.

S-9,279.667

ST-$3,880.000

comes to $42,833.799 which is $73,047.483 in total, so yes you are right thinks for taking the time to help me break this down but hell i'm still off at $73M but at least I know what I was doing wrong, know I have to see why im missing $4M.Thanks Mike

 

 

I think the number for Luck is way off. He got a 22 mill contract for 4 years, how can that be 1, 4 mill cap hit for 2013 (I think that's just his base salary without his signing bonus part of the cap hit). From what I have seen it's more like 5 mill. It might be more wrong numbers, but mostly the others looked to at least be in the ballpark.



So it’s probably their numbers that are off and not your math.


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#106 Gavin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:37 AM

http://www.spotrac.c...anapolis-colts/

 

Colts contract info



#107 NewColtsFan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:35 PM

I think the number for Luck is way off. He got a 22 mill contract for 4 years, how can that be 1, 4 mill cap hit for 2013 (I think that's just his base salary without his signing bonus part of the cap hit). From what I have seen it's more like 5 mill. It might be more wrong numbers, but mostly the others looked to at least be in the ballpark.



So it’s probably their numbers that are off and not your math.

 

 

Yup.....   his pro-rated signing bonus bumps his cap hit figure up another $3.6 Mill.

 

Nice catch....       :thmup:



#108 dw49

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

I think you are seriously overvaluing players. No way any of the guy's I talked about gets much over vet min. When I say barely over vet min. I mean 1 mil or less on average. Besides McAfee and perhaps Justice, none of the guys I listed gets more than that.  You're dreaming if you Shipley gets anything over 600k as an average.

 

 

 

First you say we sign 7 players for 4-5 mill. I say unless you are "back loading" contracts , no way that happens. You then say you mean a mill or less. That's substancially higher than the 6 to 700K you gave as that woud be he average using you 4-5 mill. Then you say I'm dreaming and Shipley gets 600K tops ? I mean no offense , but you are kind of all over the place with this. Shipley should get , IMO, around 850- 900K. BTW , the vet minimum for 4 year players in 2013 is 730,00 K.

 

Furthermore , I just don't think the NFL works the way you have this "mapped out." Players like Shipley , Link , Moala  and maybe even Johnson will not just sign for vet min or a bit over without testing the open market. Often they end up signing for around or even less than their original team offered but that's the nature of the beast. Now if you are backing off that 4-5 mill figure and saying Justice would be about 1.5 , 3 more guys would be around a mill and the other 3 guys would be a 'bit" above vet min at say 825K ... then we are about 7-8 mill instead of 4-5 . If that's the case , I'm really not over valueing as you say.








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