Is the Manning/Brady era beginning it's end?

[That Guy]

Lol, well you know what they say about minds that think alike...  

 

 

Yeah...

 

I guess the same is true for not-so-great minds as well...

 

For your sake, I hope you don't think like me...

[Vance]

Y'all don't want none of me.

 

[southwest1]

Is there a trophy for division title?

No, but there is a sweet AFC South Champions banner that you get to hang from the Stadium rafters though...

 

http://youtu.be/4U7rXikf3_c

 

[jvan1973]

No, but there is a sweet AFC South Champions banner that you get to hang from the Stadium rafters though...

http://youtu.be/4U7rXikf3_c

You get those for wild card berths as well.

[NY Jeff]

The face of the game is changing and the days of the Pocket Quarterback are falling. These guys are both legends in their times. Those times are changing. You are going to see more and more transition quarterbacks in the league. It started last season with Cam Newton, who paved the way for this years crop, Andrew Luck, RGIII and Russel Wilson. It also opened the door for Colin Kapernick. The Pocket QB's from the 2102 draft did not do so well, namely Tannenhill (Miami) and Weeden (Cleveland). As the league evolves, it will be more difficult for these two traditional pocket quarterbacks to extend their legends.

[tonychen]

The face of the game is changing and the days of the Pocket Quarterback are falling. These guys are both legends in their times. Those times are changing. You are going to see more and more transition quarterbacks in the league. It started last season with Cam Newton, who paved the way for this years crop, Andrew Luck, RGIII and Russel Wilson. It also opened the door for Colin Kapernick. The Pocket QB's from the 2102 draft did not do so well, namely Tannenhill (Miami) and Weeden (Cleveland). As the league evolves, it will be more difficult for these two traditional pocket quarterbacks to extend their legends.

 

They key to this revolution is the new generation of mobile QBs are also accurate passers. Next thing is going to be durability.

[tahuyaman]

Pats would have crushed Denver. Peyton Manning is the worst playoff QB of all time. Brady is 5-2 all time in the AFC game, that is shaky? ok.

Not even close. Ever hear of Matt Ryan?

[dw49]

The face of the game is changing and the days of the Pocket Quarterback are falling. These guys are both legends in their times. Those times are changing. You are going to see more and more transition quarterbacks in the league. It started last season with Cam Newton, who paved the way for this years crop, Andrew Luck, RGIII and Russel Wilson. It also opened the door for Colin Kapernick. The Pocket QB's from the 2102 draft did not do so well, namely Tannenhill (Miami) and Weeden (Cleveland). As the league evolves, it will be more difficult for these two traditional pocket quarterbacks to extend their legends.

 

 

I'm not sure the "days of the pocket QB " are numbered as I think you imply. As far as thses running QB's taking over the league , lets give the NFL defenses at least this off season to figure ways to better defend them. Also , lets see if they start taking a few more hits and have a "health issue." 

 

I don't disagree with what you say , I'm just not sure it's a done deal just yet. However , I do think you are in error when you say that Andrew Luck is not a "pocket QB." He's a very athletic QB that when forced to run is very effective but in no way does he belong in the group you incorporate him with. I would also think that although Tannyhill did not have as many effective runs as Luck had , he is about as capable as Luck as far as athletic ability goes.

[chad72]

Bottomline is, the days of the Pats and Peyton led Broncos winning SBs has become tough ever since the NFC has become more competitive.

 

Unless the team help on the running game and D improves considerably, neither team will be winning a SB. Peyton won his SB because of his success in the middle with Dallas Clark, IMO. Brady missed THE GUY in the middle with Gronk being out the last 2 years for the playoffs. Flacco won the SB because of the presence of Boldin in the middle. Eli won his 2nd SB because of Cruz in the middle, IMO, with Nicks and Manningham on the outside. You keep killing teams in the middle with a very good weapon till they overcompensate and then give you the outside, it seems like the recurring theme in the playoffs.

 

Most teams like the Seahawks, 49ers etc. seem to do well vs outside wideouts with big man CBs and the middle is where good teams win it with a force to be reckoned with. That is my theory anyway.

[tonychen]

Bottomline is, the days of the Pats and Peyton led Broncos winning SBs has become tough ever since the NFC has become more competitive.

 

Unless the team help on the running game and D improves considerably, neither team will be winning a SB. Peyton won his SB because of his success in the middle with Dallas Clark, IMO. Brady missed THE GUY in the middle with Gronk being out the last 2 years for the playoffs. Flacco won the SB because of the presence of Boldin in the middle. Eli won his 2nd SB because of Cruz in the middle, IMO, with Nicks and Manningham on the outside. You keep killing teams in the middle with a very good weapon till they overcompensate and then give you the outside, it seems like the recurring theme in the playoffs.

 

Most teams like the Seahawks, 49ers etc. seem to do well vs outside wideouts with big man CBs and the middle is where good teams win it with a force to be reckoned with. That is my theory anyway.

 

So I was suprised by how Manning did not take more advantage of his TE talent this past season. He used to throw way more to TE when he was with the Colts, and these underneath throws were things he lived on for yrs. The INT he made was of this kind, which I cannot imagine could happen considering how accurate he was at that distance.

[chad72]

So I was suprised by how Manning did not take more advantage of his TE talent this past season. He used to throw way more to TE when he was with the Colts, and these underneath throws were things he lived on for yrs. The INT he made was of this kind, which I cannot imagine could happen considering how accurate he was at that distance.

 

Yeah, I noticed that too. It could be either that Tamme does not separate as well as DC or he is a bit too slight to fight off an LB in coverage. Stokely, God bless him for playing this long as an old man, but when it comes to crunch time, the Pats used to be able to jam him easily with their safeties and he is not as fast as he used to be to separate. He still has GREAT hands but you have to separate first. Besides, I always wondered why McCoy never incorporated some "throw it up there and let DT or Decker go get it" kind of plays to take advantage of the height the Broncos had with their WRs on the outside.

 

Oh well!!! It is the Broncos' problem now.

 

I am super stoked with where Luck can take the Colts franchise, SUPER STOKED!!! Can't wait for the season to start, here comes the new challenger to everyone's throne.

[amfootball]

How ridiculous is this post - Manning got almost half the MVP votes this past season after four neck surgeries and Brady was second to him. If not for APs ridiculous season, manning and brady would have finished first and second respectively for the MVP.

 

They are both closer to the end than the beginning but I don't see any drop off this upcoming season from either one. What you have to understand about both of them is they beat you with their minds. Even though Manning was at 80 percent this season physically it did not matter because he has you beat as soon as he steps to the line. Same with Brady. I expect both to play well and compete for championships until they are 40 just like Favre.

[braveheartcolt]

How ridiculous is this post - Manning got almost half the MVP votes this past season after four neck surgeries and Brady was second to him. If not for APs ridiculous season, manning and brady would have finished first and second respectively for the MVP.

 

They are both closer to the end than the beginning but I don't see any drop off this upcoming season from either one. What you have to understand about both of them is they beat you with their minds. Even though Manning was at 80 percent this season physically it did not matter because he has you beat as soon as he steps to the line. Same with Brady. I expect both to play well and compete for championships until they are 40 just like Favre.

Did you forget about your 'Manning Bash' on the other thread?

[tahuyaman]

This talk about Manning being a choker is ridiculous.  In a team sport there are many moving parts and at any time any one person can fail to do their job and it effects the outcome of a game.  Manning is one of the best QB's of his generation.  He will always be in the argument as an all time great.  

[amfootball]

Did you forget about your 'Manning Bash' on the other thread?

I believe that was a different question altogether. Fact is the guy is not declining, not yet, not in 2013.

[Gramz]

I love Peyton, and hope to have the opportunity to watch him excel for a few more seasons....

BUT............  I am tired of these threads....   Time to give it a rest.

[amfootball]

This talk about Manning being a choker is ridiculous.  In a team sport there are many moving parts and at any time any one person can fail to do their job and it effects the outcome of a game.  Manning is one of the best QB's of his generation.  He will always be in the argument as an all time great.  

he will be remembered like Marino. A guy that was one of the best pure passers of his generation but never got it done in the post-season save one season when his D carried him and he lucked out playing the awful Grossman in the SB.

[dynasty13]

he will be remembered like Marino. A guy that was one of the best pure passers of his generation but never got it done in the post-season save one season when his D carried him and he lucked out playing the awful Grossman in the SB.

 

False.

[chad72]

he will be remembered like Marino. A guy that was one of the best pure passers of his generation but never got it done in the post-season save one season when his D carried him and he lucked out playing the awful Grossman in the SB.

 

Other than Kurt Warner, Donovan McNabb and Jake Delhomme are not HOF QBs that Brady beat. To Brady's defense, no one lucks out in a SB, those are all IFs and BUTs. I can play that game too.

 

The Colts beat Brady spotting him 18 pts in the AFCCG, it would not have mattered who the QB was in the SB. It is like saying Roger Federer did not beat Rafael Nadal in the Grand Slam finals for most of his wins. It is not Federer's fault that Nadal loses in the semis to Djokovic or Murray, as an analogy. It is not Grossman's fault that Brees got crushed by Grossman and the Bears that year in the NFCCG. Besides, Brees got crushed by the Colts in the opening game of the next season, the Colts were the team of destiny that year. I am taking the high road and not even bringing up "0-2 since Spygate" speak because that would be just as childish as your "talking head" speak diminishing the Colts SB because of Grossman.

 

Football is the ultimate team game. Give the Colts team credit (and the QB as well) for beating the No.1, No.2, and No.3 scoring Ds in the Bears, Ravens and Patriots that year in the playoffs in 3 consecutive games. Like I said, no matter which QB, it would not have mattered for the Colts' team during that playoff run and we would have beaten them all.

[tahuyaman]

he will be remembered like Marino. A guy that was one of the best pure passers of his generation but never got it done in the post-season save one season when his D carried him and he lucked out playing the awful Grossman in the SB.

But he once did get it done in the super bowl and may get a couple of more chances.  So your point is flawed.

[amfootball]

Other than Kurt Warner, Donovan McNabb and Jake Delhomme are not HOF QBs that Brady beat. To Brady's defense, no one lucks out in a SB, those are all IFs and BUTs. I can play that game too.

 

The Colts beat Brady spotting him 18 pts in the AFCCG, it would not have mattered who the QB was in the SB. It is like saying Roger Federer did not beat Rafael Nadal in the Grand Slam finals for most of his wins. It is not Federer's fault that Nadal loses in the semis to Djokovic or Murray, as an analogy. It is not Grossman's fault that Brees got crushed by Grossman and the Bears that year in the NFCCG. Besides, Brees got crushed by the Colts in the opening game of the next season, the Colts were the team of destiny that year. I am taking the high road and not even bringing up "0-2 since Spygate" speak because that would be just as childish as your "talking head" speak diminishing the Colts SB because of Grossman.

 

Football is the ultimate team game. Give the Colts team credit (and the QB as well) for beating the No.1, No.2, and No.3 scoring Ds in the Bears, Ravens and Patriots that year in the playoffs in 3 consecutive games. Like I said, no matter which QB, it would not have mattered for the Colts' team during that playoff run and we would have beaten them all.

I think you missed my point. I don't disagree with you but history will look back on Manning and render him in the same class as marino. Dan might have won too if not for Montana but no one says that, we just look at him as the guy that could not get it done. Manning lucked out getting the worst QB to ever play in the SB other than maybe Tony Eason. He also threw 3 TDs to 7 picks too. So in retrospect even his winning post-season is marred through no fault of his own as you point out but history is cruel and will not be as kind.

[chad72]

I think you missed my point. I don't disagree with you but history will look back on Manning and render him in the same class as marino. Dan might have won too if not for Montana but no one says that, we just look at him as the guy that could not get it done. Manning lucked out getting the worst QB to ever play in the SB other than maybe Tony Eason. He also threw 3 TDs to 7 picks too. So in retrospect even his winning post-season is marred through no fault of his own as you point out but history is cruel and will not be as kind.

 

 

I have not heard one analyst compare him to Marino directly. It is a bunch of Pats fans and Manning haters that want to spew the Marino garbage. If anything, Peyton compares to Brett Favre who also went 1-1 in SBs, and had a history of throwing picks, just a little more. You are just here inciting, you wont last long.

[tahuyaman]

But to answer the basic question of the thread.  Of course the Brady / Manning era is beginning to close.  Both of those guys have only a few seasons left. Their best years are behind them.  They both pretty much reached their potential.  The window is closing on both as it does on all.

[tonychen]

I have not heard one analyst compare him to Marino directly. It is a bunch of Pats fans and Manning haters that want to spew the Marino garbage. If anything, Peyton compares to Brett Favre who also went 1-1 in SBs, and had a history of throwing picks, just a little more. You are just here inciting, you wont last long.

 

It is Manning himself admitting that he knew people compared him with Marino all the time and when he won the SB he felt so very released this was no longer a problem. Interestingly he also said Marino was his favorite idol other than his dad, while Brady as a guy from SF bay area always favored Joe Montana...

[chad72]

It is Manning himself admitting that he knew people compared him with Marino all the time and when he won the SB he felt so very released this was no longer a problem. Interestingly he also said Marino was his favorite idol other than his dad, while Brady as a guy from SF bay area always favored Joe Montana...

 

Manning knew as well that once he won his first SB, the Marino "SB ring monkey" was off his back . Once he made the next SB and lost, he became Brett Favre with less gun slinging .

 

Maybe, the next step he aspires for is Kurt Warner to take 2 franchises to the SB??? That was co-incidentally Kurt Warner's 3rd SB appearance too.

[tonychen]

Manning knew as well that once he won his first SB, the Marino "SB ring monkey" was off his back . Once he made the next SB and lost, he became Brett Favre with less gun slinging .

 

Maybe, the next step he aspires for is Kurt Warner to take 2 franchises to the SB??? That was co-incidentally Kurt Warner's 3rd SB appearance too.

 

I hope he follows John Elway's trajectory in the last few yrs of his career, then it will be Peyton Manning's own definition of greatness - better than all of these names above.

[amfootball]

I have not heard one analyst compare him to Marino directly. It is a bunch of Pats fans and Manning haters that want to spew the Marino garbage. If anything, Peyton compares to Brett Favre who also went 1-1 in SBs, and had a history of throwing picks, just a little more. You are just here inciting, you wont last long.

That is fair. He is more like Favre which I think is a worse comparison for him. Would rather be compared to Marino personally. But I think because Brady his contemporary has won multiple rings like Montana, he will inevitably be the Marino of his era when compared to Brady who is the Montana of his era. That was my point.

[chad72]

I hope he follows John Elway's trajectory in the last few yrs of his career, then it will be Peyton Manning's own definition of greatness - better than all of these names above.

 

One can only hope. Peyton goes as far as the Broncos' D in the playoffs, IMO. He cannot put a team on his arm anymore, IMO. It worked just a bit in the past even in his prime, it will be more futile towards the home stretch of his career if the Broncos rely on it for the playoffs against better Ds.

[amfootball]

One can only hope. Peyton goes as far as the Broncos' D in the playoffs, IMO. He cannot put a team on his arm anymore, IMO. It worked just a bit in the past even in his prime, it will be more futile towards the home stretch of his career if the Broncos rely on it for the playoffs against better Ds.

He will never win with John Fox as the HC and in a cold weather city. He should have went to the niners. He would have won this year and have a great chance at repeating but because Harbaugh would not let him run his Indy offense, he declined. A shame.

[Vltrophy1]

Manning knew as well that once he won his first SB, the Marino "SB ring monkey" was off his back . Once he made the next SB and lost, he became Brett Favre with less gun slinging .

Maybe, the next step he aspires for is Kurt Warner to take 2 franchises to the SB??? That was co-incidentally Kurt Warner's 3rd SB appearance too.

I hope he follows John Elway's trajectory in the last few yrs of his career, then it will be Peyton Manning's own definition of greatness - better than all of these names above.

Peyton was great now he's really good IMO. Peyton may not want to but I believe Peyton retires after the 2014 season. We can all speculate why he took a knee w/33 secs to go. His arm is not what it use to be.

[Indyfan4life]

Vltrophy1, on 17 Feb 2013 - 03:15, said:

Peyton was great now he's really good IMO. Peyton may not want to but I believe Peyton retires after the 2014 season. We can all speculate why he took a knee w/33 secs to go. His arm is not what it use to be.

I don't think that was his decision taking a knee with 33 seconds left...

[amfootball]

I don't think that was his decision taking a knee with 33 seconds left...

 

After the game, Peyton said the knee was his call and that Fox wanted to run plays.

[Malakai432]

Because the Broncos lost as a result of a fluke hail-mary and the Pats couldn't even muster up 14 points at home.

Flacco and his miracle bombs!!!!!!!!! Guy just chucked em up all day long in the playoffs and the SB. Recievers made some great plays time and time again. It was so frustrating to see him pressured and almost sacked then still manage to dump things off w a screen or a miracle bomb for the win!!!

[Dustin]

After the game, Peyton said the knee was his call and that Fox wanted to run plays.

Source?

[Jules]

[amfootball]

Source?

Peyton said it himself during his press conference that he was in agreement with the decision but here is an article on it, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/17/decker-says-peyton-was-on-board-with-taking-a-knee/

[Indyfan4life]

amfootball, on 18 Feb 2013 - 07:02, said:

Peyton said it himself during his press conference that he was in agreement with the decision but here is an article on it, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/17/decker-says-peyton-was-on-board-with-taking-a-knee/

Come on... I don't really buy that. 10 seconds left I can see him wanting to, but 33? I don't buy into it...

[amfootball]

Come on... I don't really buy that. 10 seconds left I can see him wanting to, but 33? I don't buy into it...

He said himself during the post game press conference that he was in agreement with it. It really does not surprise me. Remember this was the same guy that let Jim Caldwell take him off the field against the Jets when they had a chance to go perfect and he didn't so much as say boo about it. This is also the same guy that turned down going to the niners because Harbaugh would not let him run his Indy offense. Ironically, when he was let go by the Colts the media asked Tony Dungy what Peyton would do and Dungy said that Peyton will not go somewhere to just try to win SBs, he will go to a place where he feels comfortable. I think the guy has always lacked the eye of the tiger.

[Dustin]

?

[Dustin]

Peyton said it himself during his press conference that he was in agreement with the decision but here is an article on it, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/17/decker-says-peyton-was-on-board-with-taking-a-knee/

He did was his coach told him to do. If it were Dungy they would have gone for it, but Fox is the most conservative coach in the league.