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Zone Read Offense. Future?


loudnproudcolt

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I don't see it as a "gimmick" or "fad" offense, but I also do not think that the zone read offense is the future of the NFL or anything. It takes a specific type of QB to run it effectively and puts that QB in harm's way a lot. Teams are unlikely to have 2 QBs on the roster who can run a zone read scheme, so that is also an issue...

 

Teams can put an extra guy in the box or on the outside to spy the QB... as long as the secondary can cover man to man, it will be a long day for a zone read team. The exception is when the QB is a freak of nature like RGIII, who is fast enough to break contain and accurate enough to make teams pay for loading the box.

 

I do not have any problems with teams running that offense if it works for them, but I wouldn't want my team to run it regardless of personnel because it puts too many miles on the QB.... imagine how devastated we'd ll be if Luck suffered an injury similar to the one that RGIII suffered...

 

 

Edit: I am aware that RGII's injury occurred on a passing play, but it is immaterial considering the hits he took this year... He might not be alive if he tried that behind our O Line

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It wasn't meant to say it was the "SAME" it's very different, it's a fad/gimmick "LIKE" the wildcat...

 

Wildcat was/is used in college, then came to NFL and lasted a year and this year the D was ready=fad!!!!!

 

Zone Read and or Pistol was/is used in college then came to NFL this year the D next year will be ready=fad!!!!!

 

Braveheartcolt quote:

Fad or not, it looks like it will have some good mileage left in the tank before it goes out of business....

^

^Yep and so did the wildcat, everybody praised and said it was great & didn't last...

 

Go Colts...

 

So anything outside of the ordinary is a fad, then.

 

Obviously the wildcat and the zone read aren't the same thing, but my point is different from that. As I and others have said, repeatedly, the zone read is a play. You're not taking your quarterback off the field, you're not taking him out from under center, you're not taking the ball out of his hands. You can line up in your normal pro formations and run the zone read, just like you can get in a pro formation and run play action or a middle screen.

 

And guess what? When play action and the middle screen were first introduced, people viewed them with skepticism as well. Same with the forward pass. The reason those things lasted is because they can be an addition to a normal pro offense. Same with the zone read. The only stipulation is that you use a zone blocking scheme, and even if you don't there isn't too much difference from the zone read and the old QB keeper.

 

It's just a play. It's not a scheme, it's not a gimmick, it's not a fad. I think it's lazy and uninformed to even compare it to the wildcat. Like I said, it's so much different.

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I am in no way a dc but in the zone read you do not block someone. The qb reads that player that is not blocked so my question is why doesnt that player just attack instead of waiting. If he attacks the handoff then he could essentially make sure the qb never keeps it because he hits him everytime. Then it would just be another handoff to the running back. I have been thinking about this zone read stuff and I would like to see what you guys and gals come up with on how to stop it.

remeber I am not a dc lol

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Also, another thing: a coach would be out of his mind to tell his players to hit the QB on every play no matter what. That effectively takes two players out of the play, and offenses will have absolutely no problem moving up and down the field on them.

Sooner or later they will all get clobbered. Purely by the odds of getting hit....and yes....by design too.

 

If a 350lb. Haloti Ngata "accidentally" nearly snapped RGIIIs leg in two....and in down field pursuit at that.....whats gonna happen to him and Wilson and Kaepernick when defenses are coached up to better stop it and they start getting hit with square shots?

 

A lot of folks are flippantly implying that these "superior athletes" playing QB are somehow immune to getting injured when probably the fastest, quickest and shiftiest player in the NFL in the last 10 years now has huge question marks around when he'll even play again....and how effectively he'll play when he does.

 

Gimmicks....and that is what these offenses are....work at the college level because they are often men playing against boys. And they do have an element of surprise in the NFL and take some adjusting to in order to stop. IMO....the risk will soon outweigh the reward.

 

We needn't look any further than RGIII to know that they are unlikely to become a staple in the NFL.

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I am in no way a dc but in the zone read you do not block someone. The qb reads that player that is not blocked so my question is why doesnt that player just attack instead of waiting. If he attacks the handoff then he could essentially make sure the qb never keeps it because he hits him everytime. Then it would just be another handoff to the running back. I have been thinking about this zone read stuff and I would like to see what you guys and gals come up with on how to stop it.

remeber I am not a dc lol

Attacking the ball carrier outright is not a good strategy against the zone read. The DE or OLB HAS to stay disciplined on the edge keep his lane or its going to be a good gain on the play. The play is designed to leave the edge contain unblocked so that they will overplay and be out of position to contain either the handoff or the QB.

The best way to stop the zone read is like any other running play...penetration and assignment. If you get into the backfield you'll disrupt the play. If you maintain your lanes and assignments you have a good chance of minimizing the success of the play.

The zone read is an effective play and I think it has a place in the NFL in spots. I do think eventually NFL defenses will adapt as they see and prepare for it more.

I think the big reason it cant be a staple is like someone above mentioned....I just dont think a QB will survive in the NFL running it.

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It's a fad.  I remember reading an article in Sports Illustrated in like 1987 calling Randall Cunningham Robo-QB.  He was going to revolutionize the position. He could run, he could throw, he could do it all!  Well...he had the most success with the Vikings in 1998 when he simply stood in the pocket and threw the ball.

 

I can assure you as a football coach, it will be defensed.  Because the fact is a QB on the run is not going to be consistently accurate as a QB in the pocket.  Timing is thrown off.  QBs like Wilson, Kaepernick, and RG3 are doing well because guys are wide open or the perimeter are open.  But once that is taken away, they may become a shadow of their former selves.


What I expect what you will see is what the Patriots run.  A 3-4 with the OLBs playing very tight and man coverage.   What they are doing is taking away the run as well as rushing the QB. If you can beat the rush and beat the man coverage, you will succeed.  But that is a very big IF.

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QBs like Wilson, Kaepernick, and RG3 are doing well because guys are wide open or the perimeter are open.  But once that is taken away, they may become a shadow of their former selves.

If you're playcaller has his head on straight, you're completely ok with this. Look at the box scores for each of Griffin's games against Dallas. The first game, Dallas was playing the run and Griffin lit them up in the air. In the second game, Dallas did the opposite and took away the pass options and they gave up 250 yds on the ground. A big reason these three QBs had success is because they present defenses with a unique problem of having to defend multiple options, but also a big component is guys by the name of Morris, Lynch, and Gore.

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I don't know that is necessarily a "fad" per se, but I believe it will become less prevalent because:

 

1. NFL DC's will develop ways to make it less effective &  less desireable to run.  They were discussing it on the Sirius NFL channel the other day and were talking how DC's already had schemes in the works to neutralize it.

 

2. College QBs are more expendable than NFL QBs. College teams/coaches don't have nearly the investment in their QBs that NFL teams do ... they are only getting 3-4 years at most out of them anyway, so they dont have to worry nearly as much about shortening a QBs career or even having to replace them completely if they get injured.  To the NFL team though you are talking about a much larger investment that can potentially set their program back years if they lost a top tier QB.

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It is not a fad, nor an offense. It is a constraint play to keep defense honest, not overly aggresive. Even Patriots run read-option. Against Texans Brady meshed football to a RB, saw defender closing gap, kept football and threw football to the screen. Who said QB have to run with a football? He can execute speed option, screen pass and even downfield pass behind OL blocking outside zone (moving lateraly). In general read option is a part of bigger concept - packaged plays. And there is a remedy against read option - scrape exchange - known for a long time.

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Attacking the ball carrier outright is not a good strategy against the zone read. The DE or OLB HAS to stay disciplined on the edge keep his lane or its going to be a good gain on the play. The play is designed to leave the edge contain unblocked so that they will overplay and be out of position to contain either the handoff or the QB.

The best way to stop the zone read is like any other running play...penetration and assignment. If you get into the backfield you'll disrupt the play. If you maintain your lanes and assignments you have a good chance of minimizing the success of the play.

The zone read is an effective play and I think it has a place in the NFL in spots. I do think eventually NFL defenses will adapt as they see and prepare for it more.

I think the big reason it cant be a staple is like someone above mentioned....I just dont think a QB will survive in the NFL running it.

 

 

GREAT points...

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Jason Taylor was on first take discussing this and he said that it will be less and less effective.  Coordinators are going to find ways to minimize effectiveness of it.  He said one way is to line the ends up farther out while moving the lb's wider and deeper as well.

 

I think just like end-arounds and hb options they are gimmick plays and while they wont ever go away these coordinators will come up with more and more schemes to make these plays less and less effective. 

 

Personally I don't wanna see my qb running unless he ultimately has too, not because he' allowed to run an option play,  why put the person who is the most pivotal to your team in harms way unnecessarily?  That is not smart from a coaching/owners standpoint.  Its like letting someone who just got their license to jump into a lambo and say have fun.  Not smart IMO

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Jason Taylor was on first take discussing this and he said that it will be less and less effective.  Coordinators are going to find ways to minimize effectiveness of it.  He said one way is to line the ends up farther out while moving the lb's wider and deeper as well.

 

Why is it just defensive coordinators that can adjust? Why can't offensive coordinators?

If you're going to essentially line up in a Wide-9, the middle of the field is open ALL DAY for quick slants, middle screens, and inside-zones/draw plays. That's how the Cowboys' got beat.

Besides, lining up the ends wide really does nothing. The zone-read's strength comes from leaving the end unblocked and forcing them to remain disciplined, something that even elite defensive ends cannot do again and again. Couple it with strong fullback play and it's just really not easy to defend. To defend it you HAVE to have defenders that remain disciplined in their lanes, but at some point they just get tired, and considering it's a wrinkle in the offense and not a base play, the defenders never know when to expect it.

It's not the wildcat. It's not the halfback option. It's not any of this.

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The read option will continue to be effective in spots, but like any other play call, you have to know when to use it in order for it to be effective. It shouldn't be the main course of an offense (We've seen why in RG3- teams can't afford to expose their QB's to more big hits than they have to), but I do believe it has a place in the NFL under the right circumstances. That said, with an offseason to prepare and analyze it, defensive coordinators will adjust better to it and it won't be quite as effective. Players will also become more used to defending it so there won't be as much of a surprise factor.

 

Finally, finding the "plus" caliber athletes that can run and throw is tough- you won't find quality replacements for them cheaply or easily when they eventually do get injured. A team that focuses on the read option would almost need to spend a draft pick on the position every couple of years just as insurance.

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Why is it just defensive coordinators that can adjust? Why can't offensive coordinators?

If you're going to essentially line up in a Wide-9, the middle of the field is open ALL DAY for quick slants, middle screens, and inside-zones/draw plays. That's how the Cowboys' got beat.

Besides, lining up the ends wide really does nothing. The zone-read's strength comes from leaving the end unblocked and forcing them to remain disciplined, something that even elite defensive ends cannot do again and again. Couple it with strong fullback play and it's just really not easy to defend. To defend it you HAVE to have defenders that remain disciplined in their lanes, but at some point they just get tired, and considering it's a wrinkle in the offense and not a base play, the defenders never know when to expect it.

It's not the wildcat. It's not the halfback option. It's not any of this.

isn't the zone read OC's adjusting?  its adding a wrinkle that the defense hasn't figured out yet.  It's purely a game of reactions.  Some teams have instilled packages using these plays and its up to the D to adjust. 

 

I wasn't saying that it was the wildcat or the halfback option.  What I was saying is that they are gimmick plays like those.  They are effective right now and probably will be for the next year or so but then their effectiveness will be mitigated

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isn't the zone read OC's adjusting?  its adding a wrinkle that the defense hasn't figured out yet.  It's purely a game of reactions.  Some teams have instilled packages using these plays and its up to the D to adjust. 

I mean further than that. The perception is that DCs will suddenly unveil plays to stop the zone read and the offense can't do a single thing about it. In all likelihood, OCs will develop a new wrinkle in the zone read that can counteract it, and I say that because it is a very malleable thing. Packaged plays have a lot of facets to them. Think earlier how the Redskins were struggling in traditional plays without Garçon, so they started running the triple option. When defenses started crashing in on Griffin, they stopped the triple option and started running the zone read.

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I mean further than that. The perception is that DCs will suddenly unveil plays to stop the zone read and the offense can't do a single thing about it. In all likelihood, OCs will develop a new wrinkle in the zone read that can counteract it, and I say that because it is a very malleable thing. Packaged plays have a lot of facets to them. Think earlier how the Redskins were struggling in traditional plays without Garçon, so they started running the triple option. When defenses started crashing in on Griffin, they stopped the triple option and started running the zone read.

I think you and I are essentially saying the same things, my only caveat is that eventually I believe that it will become less effective overtime,  I'm not saying it will be scrapped because every coach will somehow someway try to re-invent the wheel to utilize their teams skill sets (i.e. Griffin and the skins)

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Short term, it is a very successful offense if you have a very mobile QB who also understands what the defense is showing them.

 

Long term, it takes a toll on the QB because it ups the hits count. Smaller QBs are realizing that they will just get hurt more. Guys like Vick and RG3 won't last too long running the offense. Big QBs like Colin or Cam can make it work longer because they can absorb the punishment better. Wilson is interesting because he runs like a RB and I think he could make it work as long as Colin or Cam.

 

All in all, defenses will soon figure the offense out and it will soon be gone for good.

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http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_22373815/colin-kaepernicks-college-coach-his-pupil-just-awesome

 

"Ault: Absolutely. I'm not here to tell you that the 49ers should run the read 16, 17 times a game. You can't do that in the NFL. But I think by running the read play, it's in your offensive system and you're going to run it five times, nine times a game, it's one more thing you've got to defend. And then when you throw the play-action pass off it, that's another thing. So it's not just one dimension that you've got to look at, it's a couple of things. You see Kaep run that 56-yard touchdown, and you say, great, that's the read option. And it is great. But I think one of the things that set that up was a couple of the play-action passes out of the pistol".

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Georgia Tech runs the Pistol Offense, and sometimes it looks unstoppable, other times it looks awful. Defenses will adjust like always. Every offense the appears unstoppable always eventually runs into a wall.

Agreed.  Just like Navy and their triple option, you have to have somewhat of a passing game to be a threat and when I see Navy or GT play its almost painful to watch

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Agreed.  Just like Navy and their triple option, you have to have somewhat of a passing game to be a threat and when I see Navy or GT play its almost painful to watch

Strawman.

A quarterback wouldn't be in the league if he couldn't throw. That's not what's going to be the Achilles' heel of the Pistol/zone-read/triple-option/whatever you guys keep mixing up as the same thing.

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Georgia Tech runs the Pistol Offense, and sometimes it looks unstoppable, other times it looks awful. Defenses will adjust like always. Every offense the appears unstoppable always eventually runs into a wall.

No, they don't run the pistol. They run the triple option, huge difference. The pistol and the read option don't require extra personnel in the backfield, it just requires you defend everyone.

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Sooner or later they will all get clobbered. Purely by the odds of getting hit....and yes....by design too.

 

If a 350lb. Haloti Ngata "accidentally" nearly snapped RGIIIs leg in two....and in down field pursuit at that.....whats gonna happen to him and Wilson and Kaepernick when defenses are coached up to better stop it and they start getting hit with square shots?

 

A lot of folks are flippantly implying that these "superior athletes" playing QB are somehow immune to getting injured when probably the fastest, quickest and shiftiest player in the NFL in the last 10 years now has huge question marks around when he'll even play again....and how effectively he'll play when he does.

 

Gimmicks....and that is what these offenses are....work at the college level because they are often men playing against boys. And they do have an element of surprise in the NFL and take some adjusting to in order to stop. IMO....the risk will soon outweigh the reward.

 

We needn't look any further than RGIII to know that they are unlikely to become a staple in the NFL.

 

 

Some very good & interesting reading on this thread thank you .   I liked what I saw out of Kapernick - RG3 - Wilson ,  Kapernick  with a rifle arm is the best of those running QB's IMO . Wilson pretty good . RG3 IMO needs to learn a playbook or he'll be lucky to finish out his rookie contract & the Redskins hopefully will do a better job in regards to the playing surface  , Not much of a home field advantage for the home team .

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No, they don't run the pistol. They run the triple option, huge difference. The pistol and the read option don't require extra personnel in the backfield, it just requires you defend everyone.

Yeah, they started running the pistol in 2012.

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I think it's here to stay. That's what the college kids are doing that will be drafted. Also, I believe the option is beautiful. It frees up the offence and makes the game more exciting, and it challenges the defence which has dominated in the NFL.

Now defences have to come up with new schemes to counter this which leads to more evolution on both sides of the ball and elevating the game as a whole. I'm not a fan of the run first QB, but it's great to have a QB who can run!

The pistol and option allows you to exploit the fact that your best receiver will not be double covered if one guy got his eye on the QB, plus you have to respect the run as well. Throw in the fake hand offs and gadgets and you have a slowed down, over loaded defence who doesn't know whether it's coming or going!

Now the downside is can you rush the passer before he hands it off or throws it? And if he runs, can you catch him? I look at each option QBs seperately.

Tim Tebow- Built like a linebacker, can thrive in that offence with the correct coaching to tighten things up, but his throwing accuracy is suspect....

Cam Newton- Also built like an ox, but his weapons are limited and the Panthers have failed to put more talent around him. I blame lack of talent surrounding him as the MAIN reason for his sophmore slump.

Andrew Luck- A pocket passer blessed with the physical attributes to run the option but does not, but can occasionaly sprint for a first down, or TD and can take a hit. This to me is my favorite kind of QB!

RG3- The posterboy of the option. The only drawback is his build, he is fragile. He can also run a traditional offence as well. Great arm!

Russel Wilson- I must admit, I have not followed the Seahawks this year.

Colin K.- To me, he appears smart, and seems like he has the build to take a hit or two. Great legs as well as great arm!

To me, the option and pistol, hell even the wildcat is here to stay. I don't think it can ever be stopped, just contained. Is just too versitile especially with added wrinkles. I dont think this should be a base offence however, but should be incorporated into a strong offence. Hell, bring the wishbone back! This is all my humble opinion of course.

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Oh man Wilson along with Luck have the most potential at QB in the entire draft class last year in my opinion and it showed when both played  this past year

Wilson and Luck are both talented, but they are limited physically compared to RG3. There's no way to tell who will be the best QB of this class, but RG3 has the best all-around skill set and talent.

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Wilson and Luck are both talented, but they are limited physically compared to RG3. There's no way to tell who will be the best QB of this class, but RG3 has the best all-around skill set and talent.

Most people are limited compared to Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton is limited if you line him up to Robert Griffin III but that does not mean that they are limited (specifically Luck) he can run for 50 yards just as well as he can throw for 50 yard td if its there. Griffin ran a faster 40 so yes he is more elusive(although obviously not elusive enough unfortunately for him and those of us that like to watch him play) but I wouldn't want to try and tackle Luck, Wilson or Newton in the open field either

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Wilson and Luck are both talented, but they are limited physically compared to RG3. There's no way to tell who will be the best QB of this class, but RG3 has the best all-around skill set and talent.

 

 

The only thing RG3 is better than Luck or Wilson, is he is a little faster, thats it. Just because he can run faster does not mean he has a better skill set and talent. Thats ludicrous! RG3 might not be nearly as fast anymore anyway with his injury. You can keep coming here and pumping up your beloved boy, but I'll take Lucks' talent and skill set over RG3's everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I didn't want this to turn into another Luck vs. RG3 thread but Im so sick of hearing about how RG3 has a higher ceiling or a better skill set that I could puke. People are starting to figure out what makes RG3 successful is exactly what is going to end his career, so when I see that he can be a more prototypical QB and run an offense that don't include a read option in it, then maybe I'll have a little more belief in him.

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:facepalm:

Oh man don't these threads ever get old...Griffin is good, Wilson is good, and 12 is good. All three appear to have a lot of football in their bright futures. They each succeeded in the offenses they ran this year and honestly, they are all good passers and would be successful in a more "traditional" offense as well. Running quarterbacks are a good thing, not bad. The NFL is about go get a lot more interesting and competitive in the next ten years.

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:facepalm:

Oh man don't these threads ever get old...Griffin is good, Wilson is good, and 12 is good. All three appear to have a lot of football in their bright futures. They each succeeded in the offenses they ran this year and honestly, they are all good passers and would be successful in a more "traditional" offense as well. Running quarterbacks are a good thing, not bad. The NFL is about go get a lot more interesting and competitive in the next ten years.

 

they have been trying to change the postion for how long? how many new qbs were supposed to change the position? howd that work out? or better yet, howd that wild cat work out? trust me, it will be shut down next year. you can have designated guys to shadow the qb like we have done in the past. also, if you just come up and destroy the qb its going to change how he plays. thats even if he makes it to keep playing. so you give up a play here or there, you start blowing boys up it changes how they play.

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they have been trying to change the postion for how long? how many new qbs were supposed to change the position? howd that work out? or better yet, howd that wild cat work out? trust me, it will be shut down next year. you can have designated guys to shadow the qb like we have done in the past. also, if you just come up and destroy the qb its going to change how he plays. thats even if he makes it to keep playing. so you give up a play here or there, you start blowing boys up it changes how they play.

Well, defenses had plenty of blueprints from not only Vick but from Newton as well, and yet they still could not stop these three rookies (second-year guy in Kaep's case) from getting to the playoffs. And none of them run the wild cat, so it's a moot point. Coming up and destroying the quarterback will result in penalties like we saw this year when Griffin put up his hands to prove that he no longer had the ball and defensive players were still hitting him. Blowing up boys will only warrant penalties and benchings. The days of the statue passer are changing. We even saw guys like PM and Brady running for first downs this year lol. Defenses could not stop the quarterbacks this year, and if they adjust, well, so will the offenses.

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Wilson and Luck are both talented, but they are limited physically compared to RG3. There's no way to tell who will be the best QB of this class, but RG3 has the best all-around skill set and talent.

The two feathers you have stuck in your head are damaging your brain. Best all round skill set and talent based on what? Please show me the list of 'talent and skills sets' you are comparing against, and also tell me how you are comparing these.

 

If you use passer rating etc, I will laugh my head off.

 

RG3 is a very talented QB for sure, but you really need to stop believing in all the hype.

 

And as a die hard Colts fan, I'm not even sure how high Luck rates at the moment, I just know the signs are looking very positive indeed.

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People who think that the read option won't be any part of the NFL have their heads in the sand. How long ago did zone blocking become prevalent? The WCO wasn't exactly popular to start, either. Things always change, even if it's not going to be used on all running plays, it will be an option for years to come.

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