Manning's legacy is a done deal now - Greatest only in regular season

[Susie Q]

Just checked in 4 a second, Unbelievable, that's why I just cant get into these back & forth utterances by many

 

anyway back to my reality

Good thought Barry and this thread has gone on long enough and nothing  informative is being said anymore. It's just the back and forth bantering. Like Barry said back to reality for me also.

[amfootball]

I have read through many of the posts on this topic and cannot fathom why anyone would compare Brady's and Manning's post-seasons. There is nothing to compare. Manning is much more comparable to Brett Favre at this point. Both won one ring and went to second SB and lost. Brett holds all the passing records which Manning can reach if he plays another three years at a moderate to high level. The interception Manning threw on Saturday was eeriely reminiscent of Favre's pick agains New Orleans in the NFC championship game. Both can be pig headed and force the ball. The only difference right now? Favre has four more playoff wins which is hard to believe as I truly think Manning is a better QB but Favre's numbers speak for themselves. Also, not sure how many one and done's Favre had but I know he had a few too.

[tonychen]

I have read through many of the posts on this topic and cannot fathom why anyone would compare Brady's and Manning's post-seasons. There is nothing to compare. Manning is much more comparable to Brett Favre at this point. Both won one ring and went to second SB and lost. Brett holds all the passing records which Manning can reach if he plays another three years at a moderate to high level. The interception Manning threw on Saturday was eeriely reminiscent of Favre's pick agains New Orleans in the NFC championship game. Both can be pig headed and force the ball. The only difference right now? Favre has four more playoff wins which is hard to believe as I truly think Manning is a better QB but Favre's numbers speak for themselves. Also, not sure how many one and done's Favre had but I know he had a few too.

 

Also people see a lot of similarity between Luck and Rodgers. So Luck may very soon get a SB I guess?

 

BTW do you think Manning will join the Titans or Jags next yr?

[amfootball]

Also people see a lot of similarity between Luck and Rodgers. So Luck may very soon get a SB I guess?

 

BTW do you think Manning will join the Titans or Jags next yr?

Really? I think Luck plays a lot like Big Ben but more accurate. So maybe he gets two rings? ha,ha.

 

Poor Manning. I really suspect his arm strength will decline even more next year. He should have went to San Fran and the sunshine. Much better team, head coach and org than Denver.

[GoPats]

My quarterback is better than your quarterback because he wears different laundry than yours!111!!!1

 

Oh yeah? Well mine... wears Uggs. Crap. You win. ;)

[GoPats]

Just checked in 4 a second, Unbelievable, that's why I just cant get into these back & forth utterances by many

 

anyway back to my reality

 

You're too good of a person for this thread anyway Barry. Leave it to us. Ha-ha... ;)

[tonychen]

Really? I think Luck plays a lot like Big Ben but more accurate. So maybe he gets two rings? ha,ha.

 

Poor Manning. I really suspect his arm strength will decline even more next year. He should have went to San Fran and the sunshine. Much better team, head coach and org than Denver.

 

Maybe he just doesn't want Jim Harbaugh the guy he replaced in Indy to tell him what to do? I also thought going to SF is the closest route for him to get another SB ring, but he would have to play QB in their system instead of build his own system for them.

[tonychen]

Oh yeah? Well mine... wears Uggs. Crap. You win. ;)

 

Considering some commentators said they saw problems in manning's footing late in the game and it could be due to the cold weather, for him to have a pair of UGG sounds like a nice idea  

[rodderick]

Actually the facts do back me up. The pats haven't won a super bowl since they were caught cheating. Fact

 

Ah, the moment a Patriots/Brady hater brings up the "cheating" argument is always joyful one, for it means said person either: a) has an incredibly shallow knowledge of the game of football; b) has been backed into a corner so badly he doesn't have absolutely nothing else to turn to. So kudos to you, sir.

 

And just a quick reminder, after the Patriots were reprimanded for filming defensive signals, they have put up 4 of the 15 best offensive seasons in NFL history, including 2 of the top 3. Brady has also had his best statistical seasons on that period and the Patriots reached the Superbowl twice, losing both games by a grand total of 7 points. Now, elaborate as to why the filming of defensive signals was crucial only on Superbowl games, since their winning percentage in their regular season hasn't decreased, ans they've reached the big game twice in six years. I'll wait.

[jvan1973]

Ah, the moment a Patriots/Brady hater brings up the "cheating" argument is always joyful one, for it means said person either: a) has an incredibly shallow knowledge of the game of football; b) has been backed into a corner so badly he doesn't have absolutely nothing else to turn to. So kudos to you, sir.

And just a quick reminder, after the Patriots were reprimanded for filming defensive signals, they have put up 4 of the 15 best offensive seasons in NFL history, including 2 of the top 3. Brady has also had his best statistical seasons on that period and the Patriots reached the Superbowl twice, losing both games by a grand total of 7 points. Now, elaborate as to why the filming of defensive signals was crucial only on Superbowl games, since their winning percentage in their regular season hasn't decreased, ans they've reached the big game twice in six years. I'll wait.

You tell me, your coach was the one doing it.. It must have helpedsomehow. And what i said is still fact

[Jules]

People have to understand too, it is not just about winning it all to me either. I get sick of seeing Manning as the favorite and going one and done. And every time it happens there is a whirlwind of excuses that do not involve Manning.

 

Stuff happens in football. Special teams mess up. Defense can mess up at times, besides the other QB in the playoffs is normally pretty decent too to be that far. ;) But, in the end the QB of the team........the leader.......I often expect or want to see take control of the game and bring his team back regardless of what happened BEFORE that. The great ones often live to be part of those moments IMO, they want to win the big game and get the game winning TD or set up for the FG. They want to get that game winning drive. They want to have "that moment." Instead in the SB vs. the Saints and in OT vs. the Ravens......Manning can't do it. That game ending pick 6 vs. the Saints and the pick in OT vs. the Ravens will hurt his legacy......he is not proving to be the big game QB people have always wanted. And now next season he is 37 and everyone hopes this will change all of a sudden? Sure we had the moment vs. NE in the AFC title game but that now looking back seems more like a once in a lifetime game instead of a pattern we had hoped to have seen start to occur. Manning a year later vs. SD could not close out the game.

 

Now, even if Brady loses to Baltimore or in the SB to the 49ers (no way they lose to the Falcons lol) I still favor him over Manning now. His teams rarely go one and done at home and they lost two guys to injury on offense early in the game vs. Houston and did not miss a beat. I feel Brady is better at handling adversity in big games over Manning.

 

And how often do we talk about the weather hurting Brady? We don't. If there was a snow storm he would probably thank the heavens for it. With Manning everyone would cringe. Perhaps Peyton's arm has declined too which is going to hurt him going forward even more.

 

 

JMO of course.

[southwest1]

"Can a pitbull mentality be taught?"

I think Peyton already has that mentality during all football games but I also think he tries to put it all on himself sometimes like all great QB's want to, sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not, I try not to read into things to much although I do sometimes, but Peyton is 1 year into his 5 year deal, he has time to win another SB if the Broncos make the right moves, He was passing to Stokley and it would have been caught and not intercepted then it would have picked up a 1st Down but also killed alot of time I think, I think he would have been better served to throw it to I believe it was Decker that was open just to his right up a few yards where he could have ran out of bounds or Peyton could have ran out of bounds himself

An interesting point Gavin. Perhaps, being the perfectionist he is by nature, dictates that Peyton tries to carry the burden of his team's success on his shoulders too much to this day. Yes, #18 did sign a five year contract with the Broncos, which really only means about 3 year deal to me. Hey, I will still follow Manning with mad respect, but after next season I will just hold my emotions in check & come to realize that another Lombardi Trophy won't in his NFL future. If Manning proves me wrong in year 3 of his deal, I will eat humble pie/crow & admit that I was wrong. You have my word. 

[Jules]

An interesting point Gavin. Perhaps, being the perfectionist he is by nature, dictates that Peyton tries to carry the burden of his team's success on his shoulders too much to this day. Yes, #18 did sign a five year contract with the Broncos, which really only means about 3 year deal to me. Hey, I will still follow Manning with mad respect, but after next season I will just hold my emotions in check & come to realize that another Lombardi Trophy won't in his NFL future. If Manning proves me wrong in year 3 of his deal, I will eat humble pie/crow & admit that I was wrong. You have my word. 

 

Same. If the Broncos even make it to the SB before Peyton is done I will eat massive crow. Topped with mustard. I would share with you and we can drink champagne while we shovel it down to cut the taste.

 

I did not feel they would make it this past year either and I always felt Indy OR Denver would end vs. NE no matter how far they made it. I think it got over inflated in Denver due to the comeback of Manning and them padding stats against the sisters of the poor of the NFL.

 

Think of the fun that could transpire in the next year or two though. We might have the Colts play the Broncos FINALLY in a big game. Manning vs. Luck......with it all on the line.  My early money is on Andrew.

[ViriLudant]

Actually the facts do back me up. The pats haven't won a super bowl since they were caught cheating. Fact

That's amusing, and very trollish of you.

Both Dungy and Polian said that what BB did not help the Patriots win.

Back to the bridge, please.

[jvan1973]

That's amusing, and very trollish of you.

Both Dungy and Polian said that what BB did not help the Patriots win.

Back to the bridge, please.

funny, a pats fan troll calling me a troll on a colts board..

If it didn't help why did he do it? Why did the nfl destroy the video?

[ViriLudant]

funny, a pats fan troll calling me a troll on a colts board..

If it didn't help why did he do it? Why did the nfl destroy the video?

Because BB was an obsessive film watcher, and had been literally since the age of 4, when he watched film with his dad, who coached at the college level?

And because he broke a technicality.

[jvan1973]

Because BB was an obsessive film watcher, and had been literally since the age of 4, when he watched film with his dad, who coached at the college level?

And because he broke a technicality.

Then why didn't the NFL show the video to the public so everyone could see he couldn't gain an advantage?

[southwest1]

Same. If the Broncos even make it to the SB before Peyton is done I will eat massive crow. Topped with mustard. I would share with you and we can drink champagne while we shovel it down to cut the taste.

 

I did not feel they would make it this past year either and I always felt Indy OR Denver would end vs. NE no matter how far they made it. I think it got over inflated in Denver due to the comeback of Manning and them padding stats against the sisters of the poor of the NFL.

 

Think of the fun that could transpire in the next year or two though. We might have the Colts play the Broncos FINALLY in a big game. Manning vs. Luck......with it all on the line.  My early money is on Andrew.

That's why I like you Jules. You are funny, clever, refreshingly honest, & incredibly fair minded. Eating crow with you would be very entertaining.  :dancing:   Yup, my intuition says Andrew Luck will SBs plural. 

[Derek Kramer]

Seems a little ridiculous to just make the statement that his legacy is done before his career is even over, especially after a game that wasn't all his fault.

[Vance]

Seems a little ridiculous to just make the statement that his legacy is done before his career is even over, especially after a game that wasn't all his fault.

 

He was spotted 14 points and still couldn't win at home, and threw the game-ending INT. He sure didn't help his cause.

[Derek Kramer]

He was spotted 14 points and still couldn't win at home, and threw the game-ending INT. He sure didn't help his cause.

 

right, he didn't help his cause with 3 TD passes...

 

He definitely didn't help his cause by not playing safety for the team. Surely, he could have done better than Rahim Moore on that last play.

 

Champ gets beat twice for long TDs which NEVER happens.

 

2 of PM turnovers shouldn't have happened because of a non-called PI and non-called tuck rule.

 

Prater misses a 52-yard FG in the first half that allows the Ravens to tie the game.

[Vance]

right, he didn't help his cause with 3 TD passes...

 

He definitely didn't help his cause by not playing safety for the team. Surely, he could have done better than Rahim Moore on that last play.

 

Champ gets beat twice for long TDs which NEVER happens.

 

2 of PM turnovers shouldn't have happened because of a non-called PI and non-called tuck rule.

 

Prater misses a 52-yard FG in the first half that allows the Ravens to tie the game.

 

Oh so it's all just bad luck then, over a span of 15 years. I got it now. Yeah, not like the Ravens didn't have mistakes that led to TDs too or anything.

 

 

 

Sigh.

[Derek Kramer]

Yeah, because it's not incredibly ridiculous to say a person's legacy is defined and sealed shut before his career is even over!

 

All I'm saying is that it's not fair to judge his legacy off this game like he was the soul reason for an early postseason exit.

[Jules]

That's why I like you Jules. You are funny, clever, refreshingly honest, & incredibly fair minded. Eating crow with you would be very entertaining.  :dancing:   Yup, my intuition says Andrew Luck will SBs plural. 

 

Same compliments back to you southwest, I feel the same about you!

 

Now let us hope that if/when we get our next home playoff game with the Colts we WIN this home playoff game. I will personally start the prayer circle the night before the game. Looking at the AFC landscape based on this year the team that would scare me the most is still NE with Tom Brady if we faced them in round 1. I always root against playing NE until as long as possible in any given postseason.

[ruksak]

Yeah, because it's not incredibly ridiculous to say a person's legacy is defined and sealed shut before his career is even over!

 

All I'm saying is that it's not fair to judge his legacy off this game like he was the soul reason for an early postseason exit.

As we learned in 2006, it only takes one game to change perceptions. If Manning wins another SB before he retires.....all this talk gets thrown out and people would be left only debating why he didn't win more. However, if he wins 1 more, his legacy will change to one that more reflects being "stuck" on a team for most of his career, a team that never supported him properly (psssst...that's us I'm talking about). 

 

It broke my heart to watch him lose like that, throwing the game sealing pick (again). After all he'd been through, after coming all that way.......one and done to the Ravens? 

[southwest1]

Same compliments back to you southwest, I feel the same about you!

Now let us hope that if/when we get our next home playoff game with the Colts we WIN this home playoff game. I will personally start the prayer circle the night before the game. Looking at the AFC landscape based on this year the team that would scare me the most is still NE with Tom Brady if we faced them in round 1. I always root against playing NE until as long as possible in any given postseason.

I agree Tom Brady in round 1 of the Playoffs would scare the crap out of me because he uses the no huddle offense so well, his QB sneaks are so effective, he throws a crisp ball on command no matter what the weather conditions are, and he more than willing to beat you running, sliding, throwing, or through a flake liberty handoff for a flee flicker that puts the final nail in his adversary's coffin. Luck has these same cut throat precision qualities too. Jesus, if he gets time to shuffle his feet & survey the field. It's a darn shoot out at the O.K. Coral. Whoever has the ball last wins.

Thanks for the kind words on my behalf Jules. I appreciate that.

The Colts special teams is improving dramatically too. Something we sucked at for years. Pagano made fixing that a priority almost immediately. Hey is Bruce Arians coming back? I was surprised when he did not land the Chargers gig. I'm relieved though. Andrew was just starting to really click & catch fire with Bruce.

[southwest1]

People have to understand too, it is not just about winning it all to me either. I get sick of seeing Manning as the favorite and going one and done. And every time it happens there is a whirlwind of excuses that do not involve Manning.

 

Stuff happens in football. Special teams mess up. Defense can mess up at times, besides the other QB in the playoffs is normally pretty decent too to be that far. ;) But, in the end the QB of the team........the leader.......I often expect or want to see take control of the game and bring his team back regardless of what happened BEFORE that. The great ones often live to be part of those moments IMO, they want to win the big game and get the game winning TD or set up for the FG. They want to get that game winning drive. They want to have "that moment." Instead in the SB vs. the Saints and in OT vs. the Ravens......Manning can't do it. That game ending pick 6 vs. the Saints and the pick in OT vs. the Ravens will hurt his legacy......he is not proving to be the big game QB people have always wanted. And now next season he is 37 and everyone hopes this will change all of a sudden? Sure we had the moment vs. NE in the AFC title game but that now looking back seems more like a once in a lifetime game instead of a pattern we had hoped to have seen start to occur. Manning a year later vs. SD could not close out the game.

 

Now, even if Brady loses to Baltimore or in the SB to the 49ers (no way they lose to the Falcons lol) I still favor him over Manning now. His teams rarely go one and done at home and they lost two guys to injury on offense early in the game vs. Houston and did not miss a beat. I feel Brady is better at handling adversity in big games over Manning.

 

And how often do we talk about the weather hurting Brady? We don't. If there was a snow storm he would probably thank the heavens for it. With Manning everyone would cringe. Perhaps Peyton's arm has declined too which is going to hurt him going forward even more.

 

 

JMO of course.

A very nice piece of prose there. Essentially, your central thesis is this: Manning has gotten a pass for his playoff losses for far too long. [His MVP Awards shielded Manning from much of any post season criticism due to his spectacular regular season numbers, game victories, & consecutive division titles.] His field general counterpart Brady, on the other hand, flourishes under any less than perfect weather conditions, gets a lead, usually keeps it, & moves on to the next Dec. & Jan. Playoff round.

 

It does make you wonder if Peyton's fate would have been different as a member of the 49ers vs the Packers though. Would the results have been the same or not? Even with 2 picks in that game, could #18 have won that game playing in the NFC as opposed to the AFC? Man, Atlanta is so overrated to me...They are not going to the SB...Sorry TE Tony Gonsalez...

 

Peyton can certainly rebound next year in Denver, but Brady is a proven clutch commodity right now. If Brady loses to the Ravens does that change anything for Brady? Not really. Ray Lewis is carrying that team right now as an emotional NFL martyr. Brady doesn't lose late in the year. The colder, wetter, & bitter it gets outside...The better Tom plays. This next year, with so much on the line for Peyton SB or bust wise will be Manning toughest NFL year. Legacies will be molded, shaped, or shattered for  longterm  NFL solidarity & reputation. Can #18 bring home the bling of a new ring or not? Fade to black...

[southwest1]

People have to understand too, it is not just about winning it all to me either. I get sick of seeing Manning as the favorite and going one and done. And every time it happens there is a whirlwind of excuses that do not involve Manning.

 

Stuff happens in football. Special teams mess up. Defense can mess up at times, besides the other QB in the playoffs is normally pretty decent too to be that far. ;) But, in the end the QB of the team........the leader.......I often expect or want to see take control of the game and bring his team back regardless of what happened BEFORE that. The great ones often live to be part of those moments IMO, they want to win the big game and get the game winning TD or set up for the FG. They want to get that game winning drive. They want to have "that moment." Instead in the SB vs. the Saints and in OT vs. the Ravens......Manning can't do it. That game ending pick 6 vs. the Saints and the pick in OT vs. the Ravens will hurt his legacy......he is not proving to be the big game QB people have always wanted. And now next season he is 37 and everyone hopes this will change all of a sudden? Sure we had the moment vs. NE in the AFC title game but that now looking back seems more like a once in a lifetime game instead of a pattern we had hoped to have seen start to occur. Manning a year later vs. SD could not close out the game.

 

Now, even if Brady loses to Baltimore or in the SB to the 49ers (no way they lose to the Falcons lol) I still favor him over Manning now. His teams rarely go one and done at home and they lost two guys to injury on offense early in the game vs. Houston and did not miss a beat. I feel Brady is better at handling adversity in big games over Manning.

 

And how often do we talk about the weather hurting Brady? We don't. If there was a snow storm he would probably thank the heavens for it. With Manning everyone would cringe. Perhaps Peyton's arm has declined too which is going to hurt him going forward even more.

 

 

JMO of course.

A very nice piece of prose there. Essentially, your central thesis is this: Manning has gotten a pass for his playoff losses for far too long. [His MVP Awards shielded Manning from much of any post season criticism due to his spectacular regular season numbers, game victories, & consecutive division titles.] His field general counterpart Brady, on the other hand, flourishes under any less than perfect weather conditions, gets a lead, usually keeps it, & moves on to the next Dec. & Jan. Playoff round.

 

It does make you wonder if Peyton's fate would have been different as a member of the 49ers vs the Packers though. Would the results have been the same or not? Even if you hypothetically carried over 2 picks in that game, could #18 have won that game playing in the NFC as opposed to the AFC? Man, Atlanta is so overrated to me...They are not going to the SB...Sorry TE Tony Gonsalez...You deserve to go out on top, but sadly you won't. 

 

Peyton can certainly rebound next year in Denver, but Brady is a proven clutch commodity right now. If Brady loses to the Ravens does that change anything for Brady? Not really. Ray Lewis is carrying that team right now as an emotional NFL martyr. Brady doesn't lose late in the year. The colder, wetter, & bitter it gets outside...The better Tom plays. This next year, with so much on the line for Peyton, SB or bust wise will be Manning toughest NFL year. Legacies will be molded, shaped, or shattered for his  longterm  NFL solidarity & reputation. Can #18 bring home the bling of a new ring or not? Fade to black...

[jvan1973]

Oh so it's all just bad luck then, over a span of 15 years. I got it now. Yeah, not like the Ravens didn't have mistakes that led to TDs too or anything.

Sigh.

It must be terrible being a Houston fan then. As much as Peyton sucks, he is still better than any qb that ever played there

[rodderick]

funny, a pats fan troll calling me a troll on a colts board..

If it didn't help why did he do it? Why did the nfl destroy the video?

 

It helped in scouting and finding out how defenses adjusted to certain things they were doing on offense. Goodell had a press conference showing the content of what was filmed for all the world to see. You can find it on the internet if you'd like. I just find it amazing that people are stupid enough to say that's why they haven't won a Superbowl since, when the side of the ball that was most helped by the filming (the offense), has DRAMATICALLY improved since then. Just saying "you cheated" and not even analyzing the possible repercussion of it is just dumb. They won 3 Superbowls by a combined 9 points and lost 2 by a combined 7 points. They got all the bounces back when they won, and were extremely unlucky when they lost. That's it. It's the law of averages. If, in 5 games your point differential is +2, it's expected that you'd win 2 or 3. They played every game close and all of them came down to the last minute. They won 3, lost 2. To say that the only reason they ever won is because they filmed defensive signals is absolutely inane and adds nothing to the conversation, unless you know jack % about the game of football.

[jvan1973]

It helped in scouting and finding out how defenses adjusted to certain things they were doing on offense. Goodell had a press conference showing the content of what was filmed for all the world to see. You can find it on the internet if you'd like. I just find it amazing that people are stupid enough to say that's why they haven't won a Superbowl since, when the side of the ball that was most helped by the filming (the offense), has DRAMATICALLY improved since then. Just saying "you cheated" and not even analyzing the possible repercussion of it is just dumb. They won 3 Superbowls by a combined 9 points and lost 2 by a combined 7 points. They got all the bounces back when they won, and were extremely unlucky when they lost. That's it. It's the law of averages. If, in 5 games your point differential is +2, it's expected that you'd win 2 or 3. They played every game close and all of them came down to the last minute. They won 3, lost 2. To say that the only reason they ever won is because they filmed defensive signals is absolutely inane and adds nothing to the conversation, unless you know jack % about the game of football.

They were stealing signs during the game. That is against the rules. Fact

[braveheartcolt]

 

Oh so it's all just bad luck then, over a span of 15 years. I got it now. Yeah, not like the Ravens didn't have mistakes that led to TDs too or anything.

 

 

 

Sigh.

 

At least you know how it feels now....having your QB being 'unclutch' in the play-offs....

[Thewholefnshow28]

Oh yeah? Well mine... wears Uggs. Crap. You win. ;)

HA! I always take solace in that.

[Qwiz]

It must be terrible being a Houston fan then. As much as Peyton sucks, he is still better than any qb that ever played there

Lol so when all else fails insult Houston. VL is right, and I've been suspicious all along. Obvious troll is a troll.

[Qwiz]

  

At least you know how it feels now....having your QB being 'unclutch' in the play-offs....

Actually, our QB played more like Flacco...having a big comeback and all, though he did take a book from ole PM's book and throw an interception at the wrong time. Whatever this 'clutch' thing is...

[Dustin]

Actually, our QB played more like Flacco...having a big comeback and all, though he did take a book from ole PM's book and throw an interception at the wrong time. Whatever this 'clutch' thing is...

 

Throwing a couple garbage time Tds is staging a comeback?

[Qwiz]

Throwing a couple garbage time Tds is staging a comeback?

Right...wouldn't expect anything less from you. One more TD and the game would have been within one score. I would indeed call that a comeback, especially considering the score went from 31-13 to 38-28...do the math.

[Dustin]

Right...wouldn't expect anything less from you. One more TD and the game would have been within one score. I would indeed call that a comeback, especially considering the score went from 31-13 to 38-28...do the math.

 

Those were garbage time TDs and you know it. The game was never even close.

[braveheartcolt]

 

Actually, our QB played more like Flacco...having a big comeback and all, though he did take a book from ole PM's book and throw an interception at the wrong time. Whatever this 'clutch' thing is...

Flacco's rating was 26 points better. The 'INT' made all the difference.

Re 'clutch', you might find out one day when you draft or trade a decent QB. Or better still, watch more Colts games next season....

[Qwiz]

Those were garbage time TDs and you know it. The game was never even close.

 Teams don't score 15 points in garbage time. Say what you will but if our defense was capable of making even a few stops then the score would have been even closer. Our offense didn't help things out by sputtering too often, either.