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tonychen

Manning's legacy is a done deal now - Greatest only in regular season

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he is an overrated big name now since he just cannot run anymore. Remember Bengals TJ Green bunrt him very bad and luckily in the regular season game with Ravens Torrey Smith was injured.

 

It might work if they move him to safety, but then they still need a real No.1 corner.

 

Comparing Bronco's D with the real elite of the league in SF, BAL, SEA is just laughable.

i have to agree... the broncos d despite the stats were not realy that good...everytime they played a good QB they got murdered.

 

they still need a DT, OLB, CB and S...bassically the whole middle of their D.

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It's always funny to see the reactions after things like this happen. The Ravens beat Peyton Manning the same way teams always beat him:

 

Press the receivers

Play the safeties deep and force him to be patient (notice how you almost never heard from Ed Reed?)

Play the run and rush the passer with your front 7 and win the battle there

Keep the game close and hope to pull it out in the end.

 

Just like with the colts back in the day, there were some things out of his control that didn't work out in his favor and so they lost.

 

That's it that's all, no narratives or stupid made for TV garbage about heart and nonsense like that.

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Von Miller comes up small in playoff games....

 

 

Hope it pans out for Manning and he gets 2 more rings and retires happy.

Von Miller had a great year. I have no problems with that spectacular LB whatsoever. Nice SB dream there, but let's start small & get a post season victory 1st.  I am under no illusions anymore. The fighting dog must be awaken yet. If Peyton can't make the deep throws in the 2nd half, all opposing safeties will creep forward after halftime & disrupt the intermediate routes. The long ball will be a lingering question now until #18 eliminates this theory now...Can he quiet the whispers? There is some doubt there now. Can he prove me wrong? Nothing would make me happier, but there did seem to be an issue with comeback routes this year & short 1st down completions that were not made. Again, I revere Manning & I want these issues dealt with. I can't lie to myself anymore. 

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Champ Bailey is still a number 1 Corner[/quote

I'm not sure what game you were watching. Was it on espn classic or something, because champ got schooled by Smith and. Flacco on Saturday

yep it happens to the best of them sometimes, he probably lost a step but I think he has another year of being a number 1 Corner in him if not I can see them making Porter there number 1 while moving Champ to 2 and drafting a Corner in the mid rounds, I think a another offensive player will be there priority in the early rounds of the draft

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It's always funny to see the reactions after things like this happen. The Ravens beat Peyton Manning the same way teams always beat him:

 

Press the receivers

Play the safeties deep and force him to be patient (notice how you almost never heard from Ed Reed?)

Play the run and rush the passer with your front 7 and win the battle there

Keep the game close and hope to pull it out in the end.

 

Just like with the colts back in the day, there were some things out of his control that didn't work out in his favor and so they lost.

 

That's it that's all, no narratives or stupid made for TV garbage about heart and nonsense like that.

 

Then smart as Manning what can he do to beat this strategy? How about being patient and not to turn the ball over?

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I have to give VL credit, you tried to clue me into this 2nd half arm strength issue. You were right. I didn't want to listen. I wasn't ready to listen. If I don't see significant improvement throwing the long ball after halftime next year, I will know that the only way the Broncos can win another SB is through a stellar running game & fantastic secondary play with frequent turnovers.

 

You were also 100% correct about something else too. Indianapolis will pose more of a challenge to NE competition wise than Denver will over the next few years. I must give credit where it is due. People are free to disagree with me like always. I just call it like I see it. If Peyton is limited in the throws he can made on a consistent post halftime basis, there is no way he can carry this team to another SB. Reality is reality. 

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I have to give VL credit, you tried to clue me into this 2nd half arm strength issue. You were right. I didn't want to listen. I wasn't ready to listen. If I don't see significant improvement throwing the long ball after halftime next year, I will know that the only way the Broncos can win another SB is through a stellar running game & fantastic secondary play with frequent turnovers.

 

You were also 100% correct about something else too. Indianapolis will pose more of a challenge to NE competition wise than Denver will over the next few years. I must give credit where it is due. People are free to disagree with me like always. I just call it like I see it. If Peyton is limited in the throws he can made on a consistent post halftime basis, there is no way he can carry this team to another SB. Reality is reality. 

 

for long term Indy may be in better position than both Denver and Pats since Luck is perhaps the most promising QB of his generation. 3 yrs later both Manning and Brady could be gone, as well as RGIII. Brees and Rodgers will start to decline. Luck could have a dynasty of his own, if Colts can put together a real OL to protect him.

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 Next year...All that matters is post season...No homefield advantage...Show the entire NFL whether or not you can throw 70 yards in the middle of the 4th qtr...My new perspective on Peyton Manning.

 

Win a Playoff game...No more excuses...Either shut the naysayers up forever or confirm my worst fears...Like the Nike slogan says: "Just Do It!"

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Then smart as Manning what can he do to beat this strategy? How about being patient and not to turn the ball over?

If only it were that simple, it doesn't just depend on him. Really the offensive line and running backs have to win their battles to

1. Give Manning time for shots downfield and give receivers time to get open.

2. Make opposing teams respect the running game to create more favorable matchups outside.

 

Also you can only be as patient as your teammates allow you to be.

I have to give VL credit, you tried to clue me into this 2nd half arm strength issue. You were right. I didn't want to listen. I wasn't ready to listen. If I don't see significant improvement throwing the long ball after halftime next year, I will know that the only way the Broncos can win another SB is through a stellar running game & fantastic secondary play with frequent turnovers.

 

You were also 100% correct about something else too. Indianapolis will pose more of a challenge to NE competition wise than Denver will over the next few years. I must give credit where it is due. People are free to disagree with me like always. I just call it like I see it. If Peyton is limited in the throws he can made on a consistent post halftime basis, there is no way he can carry this team to another SB. Reality is reality. 

He was limited yet still in position to win in regulation managed 21(should have been 24) points off of three TDs and almost 300 yards despite having offensive possessions taken away from him due to Special teams TDs and a dropped pass/ pick 6. It literally took everything that could possibly go wrong for Denver to go wrong for Baltimore to win that game. They'll be back winning next year and if they can avoid having fluky games like this one be at least in the AFCCG. This isn't your brother's Peyton Manning anymore.

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for long term Indy may be in better position than both Denver and Pats since Luck is perhaps the most promising QB of his generation. 3 yrs later both Manning and Brady could be gone, as well as RGIII. Brees and Rodgers will start to decline. Luck could have a dynasty of his own, if Colts can put together a real OL to protect him.

NE will be just fine with QB Ryan Mallet. Belichick loves coach's kids who have been around football all their lives. Foxboro won't miss a beat. I marvel at how the Grey Hoodie keeps kicking caboose & taking names. Spygate is dead now, especially if they win the SB this year. Eric who? HA! HA! Just Kidding! New Orleans might be in deep trouble though once Brees is gone. Maybe Sean Payton can convince Mike Shanahan to trade them backup QB Kirk Cousins. That kid can play & could easily develop into a starting franchise QB very easily. RG3 is a bleeping stud...A bedrock in DC for the next decade or more. Yes, with both Luck & Rodgers, fix the line & the sky is the limit baby! 

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NE will be just fine with QB Ryan Mallet. Belichick loves coach's kids who have been around football all their lives. Foxboro won't miss a beat. I marvel at how the Grey Hoodie keeps kicking caboose & taking names. Spygate is dead now, especially if they win the SB this year. Eric who? HA! HA! Just Kidding! New Orleans might be in deep trouble though once Brees is gone. Maybe Sean Payton can convince Mike Shanahan to trade them backup QB Kirk Cousins. That kid can play & could easily develop into a starting franchise QB very easily. RG3 is a bleeping stud...A bedrock in DC for the next decade or more. Yes, with both Luck & Rodgers, fix the line & the sky is the limit baby! 

 

RGIII wont last more than 3 yrs.

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He was limited yet still in position to win in regulation managed 21(should have been 24) points off of three TDs and almost 300 yards despite having offensive possessions taken away from him due to Special teams TDs and a dropped pass/ pick 6. It literally took everything that could possibly go wrong for Denver to go wrong for Baltimore to win that game. They'll be back winning next year and if they can avoid having fluky games like this one be at least in the AFCCG. This isn't your brother's Peyton Manning anymore.

 

Holiday got the Broncos 14 points. You can't count on that in Playoff games down the stretch. Their main RB Knowshon Moreno getting hurt is what killed this team's Playoff hopes, poor pass protection by his replacement. The pick in the 4th qtr didn't help & neither did Fox's decision to go into overtime. I was livid when I saw that. No guts; no glory. Yes, I agree Peyton has more help now, but MVP candidates cannot throw picks either. I love Peyton, but I can't give him a pass on that. Sorry. Yoda had a great year yes. But, he has got to kill his rival & seal the door shut. I applaud Peyton's stellar year, but veteran QB's win Playoff games in their own home stadium. Like politicians, you must win your home state or your clutch prowess gets questioned. Reality is reality & sometimes she ain't pretty. 

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Football is the ultimate TEAM sport.. lets put some blame on that less than stellar defense and coaching shall we.. throwing mud on just one player horse caca.

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RGIII wont last more than 3 yrs.

I will agree than a 2nd procedure on the same knee looks grim & bleak. Every NFL athlete after surgery has to wonder what the Hades will happen when I scramble & try to make my 1st cut running on that repaired knee. It's more of a mental battle vs a physical one. RG3 is getting better at avoiding contact after he got that concussion this year though. INDY made the right choice with Luck vs RG3; I don't care what Skip Bayless thinks just on body type & durability alone. 

 

You could be right. Continued hits could shorten his career, but I think RG3 could play for 12-14 years without any problem. Knees are pretty resilient overall. Again, my predictions this year are way off. Don't ask me for lottery numbers either okay. Trust me, I'm doing you a favor. HA! HA! 

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Football is the ultimate TEAM sport.. lets put some blame on that less than stellar defense and coaching shall we.. throwing mud on just one player horse caca.

A fair point. Where in the world was Jack Del Rio's stellar defense? Flacco manipulated Champ Bailey all day...What the hades took the coaching staff to realize that? That safety getting beat deep. Man, I feel horrible for that kid. He'll learn & not make the same mistake twice. I'm sure. 

 

John Fox, why were you so darn timid & afraid? Maybe Dustin is right. This is exactly why you were fired in Carolina...Sigh...Man, I hate hesitation...Go for the knockout punch...Football is all about intimidation & no fear.

 

I'm not just throwing mud on 1 horse. Peyton Manning is a HOF QB who once again came up short. Yes, he feels horrible. Yes, he is coming off 4 neck surgeries. Yes, he had to completely learn to throw again. Yes, even still playing in the NFL is a remarkable testament to Manning drive, will power, & work ethic. Life is defined by a few crucial moments & you either rise to the occasion or you don't. Is the book closed? No, but the final chapters are being written & no athlete can get back missed opportunities. Peyton Manning knows this...Regret & unfulfilled expectations can eat at you forever...

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Von Miller had a great year. I have no problems with that spectacular LB whatsoever. Nice SB dream there, but let's start small & get a post season victory 1st.  I am under no illusions anymore. The fighting dog must be awaken yet. If Peyton can't make the deep throws in the 2nd half, all opposing safeties will creep forward after halftime & disrupt the intermediate routes. The long ball will be a lingering question now until #18 eliminates this theory now...Can he quiet the whispers? There is some doubt there now. Can he prove me wrong? Nothing would make me happier, but there did seem to be an issue with comeback routes this year & short 1st down completions that were not made. Again, I revere Manning & I want these issues dealt with. I can't lie to myself anymore. 

You know southwest1 I usually like your post but it seems lately you change your tune time and time again. Why is that because you have me totally confused. :) Maybe it doesn't take much to confuse me anymore. Just a question friend I don't want to sound critical and hope it doesn't come off that way. ;)

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The problem here is that you made a statement and are now back-tracking to substantiate it.

So by this logic, any playoff loss is a choke, unless you're supposed to lose?

How many of Manning's 10 playoff losses with Indy were games in which the Colts were favored? Because I'm pretty sure the Broncos were 9.5 point favorites Saturday. So that's 0-for-1, plus those Indy games.

If you really feel that way, then you must have a very low opinion of Manning, which I'm betting you do not.

Wrong again. Just because a team makes it to the playoffs and loses doesnt mean they choked. its a choke if they are the favorites and the circumstances in which they lose. The only years the colts lost when they were favored was 05, 07 and 09' against the saints in the sb. Every other year they lost, they weren't projected to win. All those years the pats won they were the clear cut favorite and won.

Now lets examine Tom Brady. Each time he lost in the Super Bowl he was favored to win. Against the pitiful jets in 2010 they were favored. Against the ravens in 2009 they were favored. And I'm willing to bet for this game against the ravens (I haven't seen the spread yet) they are favored .

I see Peyton and Brady on almost equal footing in terms of playoff failures at this point.

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You might be right to some extent, since eventually only 1 team will be happy if all teams set winning the SB as their ultimate goal. But losing as the top seed and having tons of opportunities to win but blowing it out in the first playoff game sure qualifies as a choker more than losing to a better team in the Super Bowl.

How? By winning two games they were suppose to win anyway? I'm sorry but getting to the big game and not finishing the deal against clearly inferior teams is even worse .

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Football is the ultimate TEAM sport.. lets put some blame on that less than stellar defense and coaching shall we.. throwing mud on just one player horse caca.

yah football might be the ultimate "team" sport but somehow you will always find the AP force feeding the awards, MVP and CPOY, to just a few positions, and with regard to the former basically two positions with one almost always winning out . . . funny how such a team sport can have such a severe disproportionate distribution, well funnelling actually, of an award to two positions out of 22+ that are on field . . .

in all of the other three major sports the MVP award can go to any starter on a team . . . but the ultimate team sport funnels it to select few . . . whatever . . .

bottom line if one plays a position that garners all of the glory of this team sport because you are the one, then you better be ready if the critizism comes in your direction because you are still indeed the one . . . otherwise if you cant run with the big dogs and take the critizism then stay on the porch . . .

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Wrong again. Just because a team makes it to the playoffs and loses doesnt mean they choked. its a choke if they are the favorites and the circumstances in which they lose. The only years the colts lost when they were favored was 05, 07 and 09' against the saints in the sb. Every other year they lost, they weren't projected to win. All those years the pats won they were the clear cut favorite and won.

Now lets examine Tom Brady. Each time he lost in the Super Bowl he was favored to win. Against the pitiful jets in 2010 they were favored. Against the ravens in 2009 they were favored. And I'm willing to bet for this game against the ravens (I haven't seen the spread yet) they are favored .

I see Peyton and Brady on almost equal footing in terms of playoff failures at this point.

not to burst your bubble, but i think Manning and the colts/broncos were favor more than just than three times . . . in the 8 one and dones, they were home 5 times and favored each time, and the three road games '00 Mia, '08 SD and '02 Jets they were the underdogs in only the jet game . . . making them favorites in 7 of the 8 and adding SB 44 that would make a total off 8 out of 11 losses in which they were favored (with the '00 jets, '03 and '04 pats being the underdog losses) . . .

so 8 out of 11 is a significant number, no?

I do agree with you that one can make the choke argument for favored teams . . . i believe the pats were favored in 4 of their 6 loss games . . .

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I do agree with you that one can make the choke argument for favored teams . . . i believe the pats were favored in 4 of their 6 loss games . . .

 

Yeah your right. They were favored in '07, '09, '10, '11. The only games they weren't favored was the 2006 AFC Championship game and the Broncos game in 2005. They were also favored in their lose to the Ravens in the 2012-2013 playoffs. :hide:

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With a few exceptions, I believe there are more anti-Manning fans on this forum than actual fans of other teams. The time and effort exerted to dig up negative data on 18 is astounding. It's not like the Pats fans on here don't have enough pro-Patriots material to write about, so why not concerntrate all your efforts on that, and more importantly on what is current, rather than what happened ten flippin years ago.

 

For me, 18 will always be an all time great on his own, I don't need to compare him to anyone.

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The truth here is probably some place in the middle like normal.  Pats fans Peyton Manning is not as bad and Tom Brady is not as dominate as you want them to be.  With that said Colts/Peyton fans I think it's time to admit that for whatever reason Peyton and his team have a problem playing at the same level in the playoffs that they do during the regular season.  

 

Some of it has just been old fashioned bad luck.  Manning had two kicks missed in the playoffs one that would have sent a game to over-time and another that would have won a game in over time that he ended up losing after he put he kicker in poistion to either win or tie the game both times.  By the same token Brady's kicker hit no less than three clutch kicks on his way to his first ring and then won another ring by hitting a kick.  In all those situations the QBs did their jobs one's kicker hit the kicks while the other did not.  Heck even on Sunday look at how that game got to OT in the first place, a missed kick by the Broncos kicker when he just hit the turf and not the ball and a TD in the last minute of the game.  If his teammates make either of those players that game doesn't go to OT for him to throw the pick.  With that said the pick Manning threw on Sunday is just inexcusable.  Curtis Painter knows not to make that throw.  So some of it is Peyton just not playing well at times too. 

 

Frankly I do think Peyton puts too much pressure on himself for the playoffs and I think his bad luck and not being able to win big games talk bothers him and causes him to press too much.  If you listen to Peyton talk he is very aware of the history of the game there is no way he is not aware of what people think of his legacy in those big games and yes I think it gets in his head a little bit.  Where as a guy like Brady just goes plays.  I also think there is something to the theory that the extra week for bye weeks can let Manning over think things too much in terms of his prep work. 

 

Those are just theories but it's undeniable now, Manning and the teams he's been on just don't play at the same level for the playoffs that they do during the regular season.  I don't have the answer for that but I am sure if someone did Peyton Manning would be willing to make you a very rich man.  On the other side of the token the Pats thrive in the playoffs.  They have had what three playoff games since Brady's been there that you can look at and go you know what the Pats lost to teams they shouldn't have?  The Jets game and the Ravens game a couple of years ago at home and the first Giants Super Bowl?  Other than that they might lose but they lose to a team that they normally play their best against and just get beat.  That happens from time-to-time. 

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One last point Pats fans on a Colts message board waiting for Tom Brady to declared the king of all QBs and for them to declare Manning some kind of court jester it's never going to happen.  You might get some here or there but for the most part Colts fans are just never going to say that no matter what happens.  Don't worry there are plenty of other places that will do that and frankly they might very well be right but as a whole Colts fans just aren't going to do it. 

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With a few exceptions, I believe there are more anti-Manning fans on this forum than actual fans of other teams. The time and effort exerted to dig up negative data on 18 is astounding. It's not like the Pats fans on here don't have enough pro-Patriots material to write about, so why not concerntrate all your efforts on that, and more importantly on what is current, rather than what happened ten flippin years ago.

 

For me, 18 will always be an all time great on his own, I don't need to compare him to anyone.

I think this is a very good point.  It's not enough for some to sing the praises of Brady they have to try to tear down any accomplishment Manning has done and some how make it meaningless. 

 

In fairness there are Colts fans that have spent years trying to do the samething to Brady. 

 

Honestly if you have been lucky enough to be a Colts fan or  Pats fan over the past 10 years or so you have been very lucky because you have gotten to watch one of the best ever to play the game run your team.  Honestly when I would go watch Peyton play in person it was like watching a master artist at work.  I am sure Pats fans feel the same about Brady.  The other 30 teams in the NFL aren't going to feel bad for either one of us for having to have Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. 

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You know southwest1 I usually like your post but it seems lately you change your tune time and time again. Why is that because you have me totally confused. :) Maybe it doesn't take much to confuse me anymore. Just a question friend I don't want to sound critical and hope it doesn't come off that way. ;)

A reasonable question Susie Q. No, I could never be upset with you. Peyton Manning has many sides: The family man side, the commercial pitchman side, the good will community leader, & the football field general side. Something dawned on me Saturday watching the Broncos lose a lead to the Ravens. I don't doubt Peyton's tremendous level of preparation. Just his level of execution in Playoff games.

 

Peyton isn't a rookie. He's a 4 time MVP player with 1 2006 SB under his belt that was drafted in 1998 to Indianapolis a term of 12 years. He lost the next year to injury. In 2012, Manning signed with the Denver Broncos. I expect more from Yoda, the premier NFL icon in this league that gets a ton of press & accolades. Peyton was brought into Denver to win SuperBowls or at the very least get to the AFC Championship Game. Yes, football is a team sport with a 52 man roster & all active players contribute to wins & loses not just the QB. I know that. NFL legacies are predicated upon post season wins & Manning seems to have difficulty jumping the post season hurdle. His window is closing. He's closer to the end than the beginning & I want him to win 1 more ring. Peyton can't do it alone anymore, he's not a spring chicken anymore, his arm strength must proliferate significantly, & I expect 4 time MVP's to win Playoff games that they have a lead in. Again, Peyton's not a rookie anymore. My expectation level is considerably higher. 

 

Chalk it up to a heightened level of disillusionment. I put Peyton on a grand pedestal & saturday I fell fast & hard with a resounding thud. Championship QB's are supposed to win Playoff games. Peyton is not a rookie. He knows how to prepare with detailed precision why can't he execute game winning drives in the post season? What's the problem? How does Elway remedy this? A tight secondary? A stingy defense? Multiple running backs with speed, vision, & power? Kick over every stone & get some concrete, tangible answers...MVP Awards are like hood ornaments to me. They mean nothing. I want rings darn it. The mark of true Champions is more than 1 ring. 

 

Brady is on a quest to win his 4th ring & Peyton has only one. Peyton has maybe 2 years left to win another ring. 3 if he's lucky, but I just don't see a third year on the horizon for #18. The clock is ticking & time sleeps for no man not even the great Yoda. I am sick & tired of coming up short & being disappointed. With every Manning loss in the post season, a part of dies & I become numb. Here we go again...Sigh..."I can't take it anymore." I'm at my wits end. No, I don't whine like a baby like that Baltimore Ravens fan in that over the top video. 

 

When I say I can't lie to myself anymore, I mean that I'm preparing myself for the possibility that Yoda will only be a 1 ring Champion. I can't allow myself to believe post season success when I haven't seen it since 2006 with Vince Lombardi hardware...A drought of 7 years. 

 

Can improvements be made on the Broncos roster? Sure. Can players learn from their mistakes? Of course. 1 more year of hope in Yoda...After that, the disillusionment must end. Peyton isn't a rookie QB. I expect a 4 time MVP to win Lombardi trophies...Please rise up in the Playoffs & seal the deal...If not next season when? It's where SW1 is at. My true feelings & sentiments. Championship QB's must win Championships...

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yah football might be the ultimate "team" sport but somehow you will always find the AP force feeding the awards, MVP and CPOY, to just a few positions, and with regard to the former basically two positions with one almost always winning out . . . funny how such a team sport can have such a severe disproportionate distribution, well funnelling actually, of an award to two positions out of 22+ that are on field . . .

in all of the other three major sports the MVP award can go to any starter on a team . . . but the ultimate team sport funnels it to select few . . . whatever . . .

 

Excellent point Yehoodi. MVP Awards tend to circle like an omnipresent vulture around the same NFL candidates. Not to say these individuals aren't worthy, but it would be nice to spread the wealth & show a little more variety in the final selection process once in awhile. Being a top 40 popular DJ doesn't necessary mean that this DJ is a connoisseur of spectacular musical tastes either. Well said my friend.  :hat:  Often, meaningful awards are usually given to the wrong person...Sigh...Naturally, in rare cases, there are exceptions that do defy the rule. I love it when that happens.  :thmup:

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Thanks Jules, for keeping an open mind regarding my new viewpoint on Peyton Manning. I fully expect some sort of backlash. That's why there is so much resentment over Tom Brady among so many INDY fans. Brady wins Playoff games & Peyton Manning cracks under the Playoff spotlight. Yes, Brady lost the SB in 2007 & 2012. But, he's been to 5 SBs & won 3 of them a pretty good batting average. I also agree with you 100% that MVP Awards are strictly a media popularity contest with overrated stats. The post above to Yehoodi & my response could easily be sent to you as well Jules. 

 

Why is it when people point out any weaknesses in Peyton Manning's game, they are perceived as "not true believers or not real fans?" I never understand that line of reasoning. No athlete is perfect. There is always room for improvement. Even #18 would admit that. I take no pleasure in highlighting his Playoff shortcomings, but his dilemma in post season play can't be ignored or glossed over anymore. You either acknowledge the problem or you pretend it doesn't exist & continue to lose. Even former Colts head coach Tony Dungy says "Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem?" 

 

Manning is extremely competitive, but as of yet, he has never displayed a post season terminate my adversary toughness mentality. Can a pitbull mentality be taught? Hypnosis? Rock climbing? Or are you just born with this character trait & you either display it on command or you don't. Usually great leaders possess this quality in abundance. I have no idea why Peyton can't or won't finish Playoff teams off. I wish I knew the secret formula for confidence & bloodthirsty NFL opponent elimination. Close the deal & slam the door shut. Yes, I'm getting repetitive here, but that's the heart of the matter IMHO. 

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RGIII wont last more than 3 yrs.

Not if they allow him to play while hobbled, as in that playoff game.  That was some crazy decision.

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Thanks Jules, for keeping an open mind regarding my new viewpoint on Peyton Manning. I fully expect some sort of backlash. That's why there is so much resentment over Tom Brady among so many INDY fans. Brady wins Playoff games & Peyton Manning cracks under the Playoff spotlight. Yes, Brady lost the SB in 2007 & 2012. But, he's been to 5 SBs & won 3 of them a pretty good batting average. I also agree with you 100% that MVP Awards are strictly a media popularity contest with overrated stats. The post above to Yehoodi & my response could easily be sent to you as well Jules. 

 

Why is it when people point out any weaknesses in Peyton Manning's game, they are perceived as "not true believers or not real fans?" I never understand that line of reasoning. No athlete is perfect. There is always room for improvement. Even #18 would admit that. I take no pleasure in highlighting his Playoff shortcomings, but his dilemma in post season play can't be ignored or glossed over anymore. You either acknowledge the problem or you pretend it doesn't exist & continue to lose. Even former Colts head coach Tony Dungy says "Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem?" 

 

Manning is extremely competitive, but as of yet, he has never displayed a post season terminate my adversary toughness mentality. Can a pitbull mentality be taught? Hypnosis? Rock climbing? Or are you just born with this character trait & you either display it on command or you don't. Usually great leaders possess this quality in abundance. I have no idea why Peyton can't or won't finish Playoff teams off. I wish I knew the secret formula for confidence & bloodthirsty NFL opponent elimination. Close the deal & slam the door shut. Yes, I'm getting repetitive here, but that's the heart of the matter IMHO. 

"Can a pitbull mentality be taught?"

I think Peyton already has that mentality during all football games but I also think he tries to put it all on himself sometimes like all great QB's want to, sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not, I try not to read into things to much although I do sometimes, but Peyton is 1 year into his 5 year deal, he has time to win another SB if the Broncos make the right moves, He was passing to Stokley and it would have been caught and not intercepted then it would have picked up a 1st Down but also killed alot of time I think, I think he would have been better served to throw it to I believe it was Decker that was open just to his right up a few yards where he could have ran out of bounds or Peyton could have ran out of bounds himself

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Not if they allow him to play while hobbled, as in that playoff game.  That was some crazy decision.

He would not be the first player to play hurt, I think many are blowing it way up bigger then what it should be

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He would not be the first player to play hurt, I think many are blowing it way up bigger then what it should be

It was stupid, as he was totally inefective.  Did you see that scamper left where he was limping like an old man? 

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Wrong again. Just because a team makes it to the playoffs and loses doesnt mean they choked. its a choke if they are the favorites and the circumstances in which they lose. The only years the colts lost when they were favored was 05, 07 and 09' against the saints in the sb. Every other year they lost, they weren't projected to win. All those years the pats won they were the clear cut favorite and won.

Now lets examine Tom Brady. Each time he lost in the Super Bowl he was favored to win. Against the pitiful jets in 2010 they were favored. Against the ravens in 2009 they were favored. And I'm willing to bet for this game against the ravens (I haven't seen the spread yet) they are favored .

I see Peyton and Brady on almost equal footing in terms of playoff failures at this point.

Yeah, because 17-6 = 9-11.

Wow.

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It was stupid, as he was totally inefective.  Did you see that scamper left where he was limping like an old man? 

I did, I saw the whole game, but the Doctors said it was ok for him to go back in and like I said players play hurt all the time for better or for worse, People want to blame Shanahan and I'm sure he can live with that as he should be able to, he has seen many guys play hurt before and some have fought through pain and finished games out, Shanahan could not have predicted Griffin getting injured as bad as he did, very unfortunate it happened but in no way could it have been predicted

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I did, I saw the whole game, but the Doctors said it was ok for him to go back in and like I said players play hurt all the time for better or for worse, People want to blame Shanahan and I'm sure he can live with that as he should be able to, he has seen many guys play hurt before and some have fought through pain and finished games out, Shanahan could not have predicted Griffin getting injured as bad as he did, very unfortunate it happened but in no way could it have been predicted

I think there was a point in the first quarter where it was obvious he should come out of the game.  He wasn't effective, and they have a decent backup.  They led 14-0, Griffin got injured, and was ineffective the rest of the day.

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I think there was a point in the first quarter where it was obvious he should come out of the game.  He wasn't effective, and they have a decent backup.  They led 14-0, Griffin got injured, and was ineffective the rest of the day.

After the doctor said it was fine it really became a judgement call and like I said Shanahan could not have predicted he would have gotten seriously hurt, Shanahan was danged if he took him out and danged if he did not, if he does and they go on to lose the game then its Shanahan made the wrong call and should have left him in but if you leave him in not knowing what the injuryor the severity was and he gets through the game without getting more injured then he did and they win the game then he makes the right call, danged if he did and danged if he didn't, Bottom line is they need to fix that field, grass was coming up everywhere its a mess and thats what caused the injury that took him out of the game

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A reasonable question Susie Q. No, I could never be upset with you. Peyton Manning has many sides: The family man side, the commercial pitchman side, the good will community leader, & the football field general side. Something dawned on me Saturday watching the Broncos lose a lead to the Ravens. I don't doubt Peyton's tremendous level of preparation. Just his level of execution in Playoff games.

 

Peyton isn't a rookie. He's a 4 time MVP player with 1 2006 SB under his belt that was drafted in 1998 to Indianapolis a term of 12 years. He lost the next year to injury. In 2012, Manning signed with the Denver Broncos. I expect more from Yoda, the premier NFL icon in this league that gets a ton of press & accolades. Peyton was brought into Denver to win SuperBowls or at the very least get to the AFC Championship Game. Yes, football is a team sport with a 52 man roster & all active players contribute to wins & loses not just the QB. I know that. NFL legacies are predicated upon post season wins & Manning seems to have difficulty jumping the post season hurdle. His window is closing. He's closer to the end than the beginning & I want him to win 1 more ring. Peyton can't do it alone anymore, he's not a spring chicken anymore, his arm strength must proliferate significantly, & I expect 4 time MVP's to win Playoff games that they have a lead in. Again, Peyton's not a rookie anymore. My expectation level is considerably higher. 

 

Chalk it up to a heightened level of disillusionment. I put Peyton on a grand pedestal & saturday I fell fast & hard with a resounding thud. Championship QB's are supposed to win Playoff games. Peyton is not a rookie. He knows how to prepare with detailed precision why can't he execute game winning drives in the post season? What's the problem? How does Elway remedy this? A tight secondary? A stingy defense? Multiple running backs with speed, vision, & power? Kick over every stone & get some concrete, tangible answers...MVP Awards are like hood ornaments to me. They mean nothing. I want rings darn it. The mark of true Champions is more than 1 ring. 

 

Brady is on a quest to win his 4th ring & Peyton has only one. Peyton has maybe 2 years left to win another ring. 3 if he's lucky, but I just don't see a third year on the horizon for #18. The clock is ticking & time sleeps for no man not even the great Yoda. I am sick & tired of coming up short & being disappointed. With every Manning loss in the post season, a part of dies & I become numb. Here we go again...Sigh..."I can't take it anymore." I'm at my wits end. No, I don't whine like a baby like that Baltimore Ravens fan in that over the top video. 

 

When I say I can't lie to myself anymore, I mean that I'm preparing myself for the possibility that Yoda will only be a 1 ring Champion. I can't allow myself to believe post season success when I haven't seen it since 2006 with Vince Lombardi hardware...A drought of 7 years. 

 

Can improvements be made on the Broncos roster? Sure. Can players learn from their mistakes? Of course. 1 more year of hope in Yoda...After that, the disillusionment must end. Peyton isn't a rookie QB. I expect a 4 time MVP to win Lombardi trophies...Please rise up in the Playoffs & seal the deal...If not next season when? It's where SW1 is at. My true feelings & sentiments. Championship QB's must win Championships...

Well even though you think you will get some backlash from me you won't I was just asking a question and you answered it very nicely. Just like a lot have posted everyone is entitled to their opinion. I know last weeks game was disappointment to some and I know a certain few expected it and delighted in it. I had just seen  your recent post with different thoughts so I just ask so now I know where you stand. No problem at all friend. :)   I don't have time to slam people like a lot do. Right now I have more important things on my mind than to get in a backlash war on the forum.  ;)  

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I am convinced now Tom Brady will retire as the best QB to  ever have played the game and I watched Unitas and the rest leading up to today. This is what is being said more and more by former athletes and sports writers and very difficult to argue. When comparing him to Montana you have to acknoweledge Joe had a more long term relationship with his recieving core where as Brady's receivers rotate like all modern day players from one team to the next. This success can also be attributed in part to Belicheks staff but Brady is the Darth Vader of football. Even Manning said in a playoff game against him Manning could not watch as Brady had his offense on the field for one last try.and this was the year the Colts went to the Super Bowl. Kaepernik reminds me of a young Brady so it will be interesting to watch his carreer blossom over the nesxt decade.    

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not to burst your bubble, but i think Manning and the colts/broncos were favor more than just than three times . . . in the 8 one and dones, they were home 5 times and favored each time, and the three road games '00 Mia, '08 SD and '02 Jets they were the underdogs in only the jet game . . . making them favorites in 7 of the 8 and adding SB 44 that would make a total off 8 out of 11 losses in which they were favored (with the '00 jets, '03 and '04 pats being the underdog losses) . . .

so 8 out of 11 is a significant number, no?

I do agree with you that one can make the choke argument for favored teams . . . i believe the pats were favored in 4 of their 6 loss games . . .

Again I'll reiterate my point that one and dones are highly overrated. There's very little difference to me in losing in the divisional or losing the afc championship. You get one more pointless playoff win and lose one or two draft slots.

The pats 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 were all favorites to win.

The magnitude of those losses far outweigh any of mannings playoff loses. The only one that can really compare is 2005 when they were overwhelming favorites.

Manning didn't blow a 21-3 lead in the AFCCG , didn't have four turnovers in a home playoff game and get blown out, didn't lose at home to a team they beat 45-3 in the regular season, didn't score only 14 points in the Super Bowl to a underdog giants team after being the only undefeated team in the modern era to reach the super bowl, and didn't lose in similar fashion in the Super Bowl 4 years later to the same team. Brady did though. I suppose it's easier to brush aside Brady's playoff loses since most of them were lopsided anyway. Even though in fact, it makes them worse but easier to spread blame.

Some interesting stats:

-When Brady started 9-0, his YPA was 6.42. That would rank 50th out of 65 playoff QBs

-Peyton Manning has lost four postseason games when his team has led with 40 seconds left. Not all of the playoff losses fall on him apparently.

-Since 2000, Peyton Mannings receivers also have the most fumbled completions in the playoffs at five.

Also, if anyone believes that a 17-6 and 9-11 playoff record is a direct result of quarterbacking I suggest they do some research.

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Wrong again. Just because a team makes it to the playoffs and loses doesnt mean they choked. its a choke if they are the favorites and the circumstances in which they lose. The only years the colts lost when they were favored was 05, 07 and 09' against the saints in the sb. Every other year they lost, they weren't projected to win. All those years the pats won they were the clear cut favorite and won.

Now lets examine Tom Brady. Each time he lost in the Super Bowl he was favored to win. Against the pitiful jets in 2010 they were favored. Against the ravens in 2009 they were favored. And I'm willing to bet for this game against the ravens (I haven't seen the spread yet) they are favored .

I see Peyton and Brady on almost equal footing in terms of playoff failures at this point.

 

You are obviously blind, then. Manning has 5 home playoff losses, all of which he was favored in, more than any other QB He also lost a Superbowl when he was the favorite, not only that, threw a pick-6 when the Colts were driving with a chance to tie it late. Manning's been one-and-done 8 times, more than any other quarterback. He's also got a meager 6-6 record when his defense gives up 21 or less points in regulation, no other quarterback has more than 3 losses in that same scenario (Brady is 12-2). Peyton also had a 1-8 record in one score games in the 4th quarter. The amount of times Brady has reached the Superbowl (5) equals the amount of times Manning has won a single postseason game. 

Brady hasn't been perfect in the playoffs, but to equate his postseason shortcomings to Manning's is absurd.

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