Manning's legacy is a done deal now - Greatest only in regular season

[GoPats]

Maybe I should clarify; I don't care if Pats fans are here. I have been in this forum since 2005 as it has converted numerous times, and I would miss all of you 5 or so regular Pats fans...really. Often times, I have seen you all have brought objectivity to us when we have had "melt downs", imagine that, Pats fans telling Colts fans, keep your head up at times.

 

He wants this forum to say ole, Brady is better than Manning /end thread, end debate.

If that is the company he wants to be around, this is not the place to be, it be better be suited in a Pats forum. I am sure, he won't get any arguments there?  Correct.

 

It is like the RG3 fans in the off season, claiming RG3 better than luck...what are we suppose to say??

 

It's all good... every now and then, a "newer" Indy fan calls out the resident fans of other teams and questions why we're even here. An online message board has a sort of community feel to it, IMO. My username has never changed (except for one version of the board, where someone snagged it before I could, but I was able to get it back for the current incarnation) so folks who have been around long enough know who I am. It's been, what, seven or eight years? And no bans, lol... so I behave myself.  ;) 

 

 

Peyton Manning needs the adrenaline rush of a near death experience & the ability to replicate that sensation on command in a safe & controlled environment. Yes, I know he's a father with children & I don't want to see him injured in any way, shape, or form. Perhaps, Peyton needs to talk to fire jumpers, stuntmen, & BASE jumpers...Those who are daredevils & put their heart in their throats everytime they jump & those endorphins kick in. Go on a jump yourself too, even if you ride co-pilot with an experienced jumper. Talk to members of SWAT or even hostage negotiators IMO.

 

Peyton's got the intellect; He just needs the growl, the roar, & the venom to cross the finish line & close the deal. 

 

Maybe he needs to even talk to career bank robbers in prison about defiance & the intense craving do defy authority & law enforcement personnel. The Killer gene isn't about being nice & proper...It's about risk taking, ego, & throwing all caution to the wind. Talk to bank robbers now imprisoned who were involved high speed chases like getaway drivers. How can they punch the accelerator, fly thru residential streets, & still maintain calm focus with cops doing everything to stop them by blowing tires or firing rounds? How do they flip that switch from mild mannered citizen to lightning fast getaway driver? 

 

I can take him ice climbing.

[GoPats]

Maybe it is a #12 thing, if so I hope Luck becomes more Brady then Manning in the coming years.

 

 

Yeah I said it. I SAID IT.

 

I would rather have Brady then Manning. So shoot me. Throw me cyber glares. I don't care.

 

I started to realize this last year too. You have to be kidding me, this is getting embarrassing at times with the Pats/Brady envy over the years. I think I am guilty of it myself in the past. Sure sometimes I still pick on Brady's hair and clothes but so what, he can look ridiculous. But, he is a smooth freaking operator in big games and seems to inspire his teams to play better then Manning does.

 

Yeah I used to be one of them. I used to say Manning was better too or the best. But, you know what? It was almost like I was programmed to think that way. Like I was stolen in the middle of the night and brainwashed by a clinic to think this way.

 

For years we would mumble like zombies, "Team sport. Manning is the best. Brady has the system. Team sport. Manning is the best. Brady has the system."

 

It's over. It is nearly flipping over. Another pick by Manning in the worst spot and this time he had help. 2 special teams TDs and I read alllll year on this forum his D was amazing and would tear Brady apart. Oh and John Elway is a tool, sorry but he is. He used to look so upset in his eyes when Tebow won games as if he was a leper that somehow found his way on his team and with the more wins they got with him the harder it would be to dump the kid.

 

Sick of it. If you are the best ever SHOW ME YOU ARE THE BEST EVER. Not with words BUT WITH ACTIONS. Show me don't tell me. I want to see big mother historical wins and moments. Not hear excuses. I want to see it.

 

Blah blah blah look at stats. If we go by stats then we can throw our 11 wins out the window last year too since our stats sometimes sucked.

 

 

Manning is going to the HOF and still that is not good enough for some. We have been programmed to want him to be THE BEST. We have Luck now who looked like a stud last year and people are still fawning over every move the Broncos make. Heck this past year the Broncos could sign someone to the practice squad and we have an analysis here.

 

I loved Peyton's time with the Colts but it's OVER. This past year we would you know upset the Packers being down 21-3 and people would be like "Oh, nice win. Good for the team." Then some of the same posters would seem to be cyber screaming in glee if Manning threw a TD vs. the Chiefs. No joke, last year when the Broncos beat the Chiefs in KC I saw a headline that said, "Manning leads gutsy win over hungry Chiefs in Kansas City." You kidding me with this crap? No wonder so many fans of other teams have hated us over the years. We have been so annoying and obnoxious with the Peyton thing my God.......

 

 

Lance Armstrong and Jules, confessing their deepest secrets in the same week??? ;)

 

You've touched on something here, though, that has always been baffling to me - the collective "need" for Indy fans to believe and profess that Manning is the GOAT. There are so many problems with that, not because of the selection of player, but just in general.

 

There will probably never be a consensus GOAT. Ever. We've seen, even in this thread, the difference of opinion within a single fan base. For some Indy fans, Johnny U will always be The Man. For others, it's Peyton. Short of some player winning five or six titles and racking up impressive production (read: stats) along the way, the fictional title of GOAT will always be nothing more than a subjective, opinion-based matter.

[Snowglobe]

Wow, I can't respond to the essays given back to me. But, I have said a million and hundred times that Peyton is one of the best ever and is going to the HOF. And that title we won with the Colts will always mean something to me and I hope and pray we can get another someday here.

 

Why don't people think that is enough, that I think he is an all time great HOF QB? I was a Favre fan too when he was playing and I think he choked at times too. That does not mean he ain't an all time great either but he is not the GOAT as well.

 

No I do not think Peyton is the best ever. And yes, in the last two years I am starting to think Brady really has been the better QB of his generation and there is an argument to be made that he has been.

 

 

I also am not saying Luck is the best thing ever and will win 6 rings.

 

I guess many of us just won't see things the same. But, that's fine.......

 

It is what it is.

 

No worries. Most NFL fans think Brady > Manning anyways. There will be the Joe Montanas, Tom Bradys and then there will be the Brett Favres and Peyton Mannings. It's just life. 

[tonychen]

No worries. Most NFL fans think Brady > Manning anyways. There will be the Joe Montanas, Tom Bradys and then there will be the Brett Favres and Peyton Mannings. It's just life. 

 

Not completely true. Maybe Brady > Manning at this moment but not by much. Unless you guys win out this yr and Brady gets his 4th ring, it will still be Montanas up there and others far lower.

[southwest1]

It's all good... every now and then, a "newer" Indy fan calls out the resident fans of other teams and questions why we're even here. An online message board has a sort of community feel to it, IMO. My username has never changed (except for one version of the board, where someone snagged it before I could, but I was able to get it back for the current incarnation) so folks who have been around long enough know who I am. It's been, what, seven or eight years? And no bans, lol... so I behave myself.  ;)

 

 

 

I can take him ice climbing.

I like this idea a lot GoPats! Rock climbing would give him the intensity he needs to cross the finish line. Peyton would confront the fear of heights, limited oxygen as he climbs higher & higher, the elements of snow, ice, rock sentiment, & sheer exhaustion. Perhaps, he would appreciate life more & be willing to take a few more calculated risks on the field. I will call Peyton, then you, & we will give #18 more bite in that inner dog to close the deal.    What day works best for you man? Can I come along too for additional motivation?    Just Kidding!!! Seriously though, I love this idea! DLR can show him the ropes too! 

 

[tonychen]

I like this idea a lot GoPats! Rock climbing would give him the intensity he needs to cross the finish line. Peyton would confront the fear of heights, limited oxygen as he climbs higher & higher, the elements of snow, ice, rock sentiment, & sheer exhaustion. Perhaps, he would appreciate life more & be willing to take a few more calculated risks on the field. I will call Peyton, then you, & we will give #18 more bite in that inner dog to close the deal.    What day works best for you man? Can I come along too for additional motivation?    Just Kidding!!! Seriously though, I love this idea! DLR can show him the ropes too! 

 

 

Sounds fun

In reality I could also see why Manning has some issues dealing with pressure. As a born leader and prepared as an NFL starting QB he has always been dealing with pressure of people's expectation, media's scrutiny, and the demand on winning big games. But losing or commiting mistakes for him has never meant losing his job and there is always nest yr. While for some other guys, e.g. Tom Brady when he started the career as a backup, losing a big game or simply throwing an INT could end his career right away. That is like climbing a cliff. Another example is Joe Flacco, had he not played that well the past 2 weeks he could lose his job and need to find a new home next yr. 

[TAPLOOK]

Montana lost his share of NFCCG's and couldn't get to the SB's that Brady has and counting. It's Brady and Montana and Brady alone if wins this SB and still Brady and Montana if he doesn't. Manning is and always has been with the second tier.

[jvan1973]

Montana lost his share of NFCCG's and couldn't get to the SB's that Brady has and counting. It's Brady and Montana and Brady alone if wins this SB and still Brady and Montana if he doesn't. Manning is and always has been with the second tier.

Joe cool won four titles, as did Terry bradshaw.

[TAPLOOK]

Bradshaw wasn't the core of his team. Manning would have won 4 SB's with the Steelers.

[amfootball]

Interesting topic. I think Manning's legacy was stamped when he threw the pick six against New Orleans in the Super Bowl. Brady is only comparable these days to Montana. Six years ago it was valid to compare him with Manning but five SB appearances and seven conference champ games along with the three rings sets him apart from any current QB. Until he retires, he will only be up against Montana and he already has more post season wins than him. 

[southwest1]

No worries. Most NFL fans think Brady > Manning anyways. There will be the Joe Montanas, Tom Bradys and then there will be the Brett Favres and Peyton Mannings. It's just life. 

 

 

Not completely true. Maybe Brady > Manning at this moment but not by much. Unless you guys win out this yr and Brady gets his 4th ring, it will still be Montanas up there and others far lower.

Yeah I know, when SW1 expresses his loyalty & that loyalty in the name of Manning falls tragically short of it's intended destination, it feels like you have been put through a meat grinder half a dozen times. I heard Ron Jawarski talking yesterday on ESPN "First Take" talking about #18 learning to throw from his core & strengthening his lower body & Peyton's last interception was elevated meaning not on the ground & therefore no strength coming directly from his lower body. I don't know if I believe that or not. Peyton never had an arm cannon anyway. He just excelled at anticipating throws & getting WR's & TE's in the right position. Is his arm strength done? Does it become weaker in the 2nd half? Maybe...I have to be honest here. Can it be strengthened with 1 full off season? I hope so...I just don't know anymore. 

 

For the record, I will always give Tom Brady the legitimate 3 ring Champion SB status he truly deserves. Is Peyton done? No, I'm not ready to throw in that towel yet. 1 more year. Blind loyalty? No, my eyes are slightly ajar.    God's speed Yoda & good luck. 

[Dustin]

I like how this post is started as if the dude played his final game. He still has like 4 years left on his contract. He could go insane in the playoffs and win the next 4 Super Bowls.

[southwest1]

Sounds fun

In reality I could also see why Manning has some issues dealing with pressure. As a born leader and prepared as an NFL starting QB he has always been dealing with pressure of people's expectation, media's scrutiny, and the demand on winning big games. But losing or commiting mistakes for him has never meant losing his job and there is always nest yr. While for some other guys, e.g. Tom Brady when he started the career as a backup, losing a big game or simply throwing an INT could end his career right away. That is like climbing a cliff. Another example is Joe Flacco, had he not played that well the past 2 weeks he could lose his job and need to find a new home next yr. 

A valid point. Peyton gets a ton of scrutiny, but so does Tom Brady & he, more often than not, manages to win BIG games in the Playoffs. Forget Tom Terrific insults, not referring to you, but something needs to change. Broncos management cannot bury it's head in the sand & pretend nothing is wrong either. Yes, there is an equal danger in going into full panic mode too? Denver needs to figure out is it an arm strength issue? Is it a pass protection issue? Is it a thinking too much & just react issue? Is it a Champ Bailey & secondary issue? Pull down the curtain & get to the real problem ASAP IMO.

[tonychen]

I like how this post is started as if the dude played his final game. He still has like 4 years left on his contract. He could go insane in the playoffs and win the next 4 Super Bowls.

 

Hah wasn't the same thing said every yr before that there would always be next yr? And I don't think he will play a full 4 yrs, since he contract is like a 1+2+2 mode, he might have another 2 and he will be 38 then. Remember he once said he'd not like to play into his 40th. Not to mention for QBs at this age each yr is going to be very different. Viking fans sure thought Favre could come back from that NFCCG loss.

[ViriLudant]

Joe cool won four titles, as did Terry bradshaw.

They both did it in the era of "super teams."

No salary cap = stacked teams.

[amfootball]

They both did it in the era of "super teams."

No salary cap = stacked teams.

Totally agree. Brady's accomplisments dwarf Montana and Bradshaw as he has done it in the FA/Cap era. Remember too he is the only QB to go 10-0 in his first ten playoff games. That alone separates him.

[Gavin]

They both did it in the era of "super teams."

No salary cap = stacked teams.

Broncos are a pretty stacked team, they dont have the names of the 49ers or the Steelers back then but they have talent across the board, Pro Bowl Lineman, Hall of fame QB. talented wr's, talented Tight End, good linebacker corp

[Dustin]

Hah wasn't the same thing said every yr before that there would always be next yr? And I don't think he will play a full 4 yrs, since he contract is like a 1+2+2 mode, he might have another 2 and he will be 38 then. Remember he once said he'd not like to play into his 40th. Not to mention for QBs at this age each yr is going to be very different. Viking fans sure thought Favre could come back from that NFCCG loss.

 

Funny, people also said John Elway would never win a Super Bowl. Strange how that turned out.

[amfootball]

Broncos are a pretty stacked team, they dont have the names of the 49ers or the Steelers back then but they have talent across the board, Pro Bowl Lineman, Hall of fame QB. talented wr's, talented Tight End, good linebacker corp

Broncos were not stacked. Easy schedule made it look that way. Champ looked ancient and the rest of the defense wore out in the second half and overtime.

[Dustin]

Totally agree. Brady's accomplisments dwarf Montana and Bradshaw as he has done it in the FA/Cap era. Remember too he is the only QB to go 10-0 in his first ten playoff games. That alone separates him.

 

But that also makes him 7-7 since then. Pretty mediocre for the apparent greatest QB ever since his top 7 defense left.

[amfootball]

Von Miller comes up small in playoff games....

[amfootball]

But that also makes him 7-7 since then. Pretty mediocre for the apparent greatest QB ever since his top 7 defense left.

He is 7-6. It may surprise you to know this but every single time the pats made the SB except for '03 the Pats offense was ranked higher than its defense. Brady was the one that led those teams not the D.

[Dustin]

Von Miller comes up small in playoff games....

 

All two of them?

[tonychen]

Funny, people also said John Elway would never win a Super Bowl. Strange how that turned out.

 

Hope it pans out for Manning and he gets 2 more rings and retires happy.

[Gavin]

Totally agree. Brady's accomplisments dwarf Montana and Bradshaw as he has done it in the FA/Cap era. Remember too he is the only QB to go 10-0 in his first ten playoff games. That alone separates him.

He has also done it in the era where you get a penalty touching a wr 5 yards beyond line of scrimmage and if a Linebacker or D Lineman gets close enough to the QB that he can feel his breath on him then he is flagged for a penalty, different game then it was years ago, taking nothing away from the records broken by QB's these days but if they didn't treat them like fragile sissies today I believe many of those records would be intact today, Hey Brady's accomplishments stand on there own but the league as moved to a much more offensive friendly mindset

[southwest1]

Broncos were not stacked. Easy schedule made it look that way. Champ looked ancient and the rest of the defense wore out in the second half and overtime.

Ironic really, all year long I heard how the elevation would be such an asset to Denver...More like a liability...Ravens got the job done & they flew to Denver. I agree amfootball. Champ did look "ancient." Not trying to be cruel here just honest. Was it an off game or is Bailey not the shutdown player he once was? Champ looked just awful.

[The Fish]

Montana to Rice = greatest.

[Dustin]

It may surprise you to know this but every single time the pats made the SB except for '03 the Pats offense was ranked higher than its defense. Brady was the one that led those teams not the D.

 

No it wasn't. The Pats offense was ranked 6th in offense and 6th in defense in 2001, and the O was ranked 4th in offense and 2nd in defense in 2004. So the defense was better or the same every year. Also ranked 12 in O and 1st in defense in 2003.

[tonychen]

He has also done it in the era where you get a penalty touching a wr 5 yards beyond line of scrimmage and if a Linebacker or D Lineman gets close enough to the QB that he can feel his breath on him then he is flagged for a penalty, different game then it was years ago, taking nothing away from the records broken by QB's these days but if they didn't treat them like fragile sissies today I believe many of those records would be intact today, Hey Brady's accomplishments stand on there own but the league as moved to a much more offensive friendly mindset

 

Really dont like to compare players from different era, but a comparison between plays in the same era is much more doable.

[Gavin]

Broncos were not stacked. Easy schedule made it look that way. Champ looked ancient and the rest of the defense wore out in the second half and overtime.

Champ Bailey is still a number 1 Corner

[tonychen]

He is 7-6. It may surprise you to know this but every single time the pats made the SB except for '03 the Pats offense was ranked higher than its defense. Brady was the one that led those teams not the D.

 

Your arguments dont work for the time they won the SBs, since everybody remember the big names of the defensive stars while that offense is mostly forgetable. Pats bad defense started 06 and after that point pretty much every yr they depend on the offense.

[Mameluc]

"Much was made of the return of guard Chris Kuper, but he was brutal with three holding penalties, hampering the offense from ever getting a two-score lead. The biggest Kuper mistake was the hold to negate a third-down conversion, which set up Manning’s fumble, which is the first fumble on a pass play in his 20-game playoff career." didnt know that stat.

 

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/    ---> probably worth a read to anybody who just uses stats with no context...and who just say "choker"

 

[Susie Q]

Just a question :  Why is Manning's legacy even being questioned seeing as he is still playing the game? 

[Dustin]

Just a question :  Why is Manning's legacy even being questioned seeing as he is still playing the game? 

 

Because of knee-jerk reactions.

[Mameluc]

about the articicle i posted above...here is another extract:
 

After Manning capped off another classic 88-yard touchdown drive to take the lead in the fourth quarter, most expected a Denver win. Long drives in the last 69 seconds are not impossible, but you usually have to drive to do it.

On 3rd-and-3, Flacco stepped up and threw it long as he could, and by now we all know safety Rahim Moore badly misplayed the ball, allowing the 70-yard touchdown, which simply never ever happens. The play is so hard to watch because of how amateur the defense was that no image is required.

There’s the ballgame right there, and Moore blew it. One can talk about conservative play-calling, but simply do not stop yards short of the ball, and we are talking about Manning’s 50th game-winning drive and a legacy game against Tom Brady next week.

 

that is exactly what i have said before...he delivered a freaking 88 yard late 4th quareter playoff drive...isnt that what people say he cant do?

this is the best one i thought from the article:
Instead Manning goes into an overtime quarter, sees one drive end with another failed run on 3rd-and-1, then makes one of the biggest mistakes of his career with the Favre-ian throw across his body to the middle of the field for the interception. Ravens soon after kick the winning field goal.

That’s a bad decision, a bad throw, but notice it’s the only such play from Manning we talked about this entire time. Why is that? The first two interceptions came in a game when he trailed 34-0 and 41-0 in the fourth quarter. The next two were tipped balls off his receiver’s hands against the Chargers. The fifth was a pass interference call the refs screwed Denver on.

Without the fifth, there probably never is a sixth, which is the lone bad one. Even with the fifth, without Rahim Moore, we still aren’t talking about a pick. It’s a three-touchdown pass night and game-winning drive for Manning. Instead he becomes the first quarterback in NFL history with multiple home playoff losses despite throwing three touchdowns.

[tonychen]

Champ Bailey is still a number 1 Corner

 

he is an overrated big name now since he just cannot run anymore. Remember Bengals TJ Green bunrt him very bad and luckily in the regular season game with Ravens Torrey Smith was injured.

 

It might work if they move him to safety, but then they still need a real No.1 corner.

 

Comparing Bronco's D with the real elite of the league in SF, BAL, SEA is just laughable.

[tonychen]

"Much was made of the return of guard Chris Kuper, but he was brutal with three holding penalties, hampering the offense from ever getting a two-score lead. The biggest Kuper mistake was the hold to negate a third-down conversion, which set up Manning’s fumble, which is the first fumble on a pass play in his 20-game playoff career." didnt know that stat.

 

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/    ---> probably worth a read to anybody who just uses stats with no context...and who just say "choker"

 

 

The Bronco's OL played like the Colts OL in the second half, which Manning never expected for the entire regular season. After going to the Broncos he has enjoyed the protection in the level of Brady's for most of the yr.

[Mameluc]

The Bronco's OL played like the Colts OL in the second half, which Manning never expected for the entire regular season. After going to the Broncos he has enjoyed the protection in the level of Brady's for most of the yr.

yea i think they will be moving Frankling to G and get them a new RT...regardless the articles was really worth a read check it out if you can

[Susie Q]

"Much was made of the return of guard Chris Kuper, but he was brutal with three holding penalties, hampering the offense from ever getting a two-score lead. The biggest Kuper mistake was the hold to negate a third-down conversion, which set up Manning’s fumble, which is the first fumble on a pass play in his 20-game playoff career." didnt know that stat.

 

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/    ---> probably worth a read to anybody who just uses stats with no context...and who just say "choker"

 

Thanks for posting that it was well worth the time reading it.

[jvan1973]

Champ Bailey is still a number 1 Corner[/quote

I'm not sure what game you were watching. Was it on espn classic or something, because champ got schooled by Smith and. Flacco on Saturday