Manning's legacy is a done deal now - Greatest only in regular season

[UMLBB10]

What are you talking about? Why would a HC who was a D-Coordinator his entire career call the offensive plays? 

Bellichick was the offensive coordinator the year mcdaniels left. billy o'brien took over the role a year later

[Snowglobe]

That's a lot of 'ifs' in that post. 

 

But you're right...IF Peyton goes and wins the next two Superbowls and his record gets a little more respectable, he's still the same guy hes always been. The problem with your point is that the stats and records that we are using to form our perceptions of him actually happened. THAT'S the guy hes always been. You're just saying 'well if he does better next year, will you change your opinion?'

 

Maybe. Sure. You judge a player in historical context and in terms of legacy once he's done. But we DO have a 14 year body of work to on, and the game on Sunday did nothing but reinforce some of the opinions people already felt about him...and now the defenders are once again trying to deflect blame and provide a bunch of 'what ifs' as a way to justify his once again and all too familiar playoff struggle.

 

Sadly this is what it's come down to. It's no longer defending Manning's body of work because he added another loss to his repertoire. Instead we have to now start attacking Brady's body of work to make it seem lesser and more comparable to Manning.  

[Nadine]

I removed two posts from this thread because they were inflammatory/personal shot type posts.

Come on guys, since the off season started too many people just hating on each other for no reason.

[Mameluc]

this when people takl with no facts and just perception... pull the PM statistics regular season vs playoffs..you will not look very good when you copmare them. its funny cause last year brady probably had the worst play off performance, but his team won so nobody mentions it...that tells you something right..about TEAM?

 

 

also you do realize that in his second to last drive, when you might have think it was his last drive he delivered a TD? you know isnt that wjhat everybody expects ? when the pressure rolled he delivered a nice audible for a TD and a good drive...but yea that wasnt clutch, that was just a regular season drive ... he wouldnt have known he woudl have another drive or anythign and he delivered...so?

its not his fault his S took the worst angle in nfl history.

 

his system doesnt work in the playoffs? please did you see the 3 TD he threw? those were pictured perfect TD's. im not trying to excuse him, his INT was stupid but your argument is with no facts just perception and probably deion sanders going all over you.

 

when you have the supposed 2nd best defense and you have 35 points up front you are not supposed to lose. he still scored 3 TD's...but why take away special teams? at the end of the day, The D should have hold up enough ..i mean they had 35 points you know

 

and somehow nobody mentions it...they were down to their 3rd RB

[Mameluc]

not to mention champ bailey...but yea it was all 18 fault or the missed field goal

[Coltsman1788]

But you're also ignoring the circumstances that have led to the 'legacies' that we're debating in the first place.

 

For example...Peyton Manning struggles in cold weather...yet we're supposed to just 'assume' that he'd have 5 rings if he played up in New England? We didn't just 'make up' these situations that have led to why fans perceive players in the way that they do. It's based on their play, their trends. So many here want so badly for everyone to just 'admit' that Peyton is the greatest ever, yet then spend the majority of the time making excuses for why he didn't live up to the expectations that they themselves put on him by proclaiming him as the best. It's just amazing...he's not even yours anymore and many of you STILL feel like they need to deflect blame and make excuses any time someone criticizes him. 

Dynasty, I actually am in agreement with the Pats fans in this thread and I do understand where Tony Chen is coming from.  He may be putting things a little harsher than some would prefer but the fact remains that some Colts fans still feel the need to make excuses for Peyton's post season short comings.

 

But first Dynasty, let me just enlighten you on this...Peyton will ALWAYS be ours.  For better or worse.  It doesn't matter that he is currently wearing that Bronco uni.  He was a Colt and will always be a Colt...most likely when he retires he will be a Colt and when he is inducted into the Hall of Fame it will be as a Colt.  This is because the bulk of his career, the records he set, the name he made for himself, the legendary playoff battles with Brady and New Englad were all done wearing the horseshoe. The stadium the Colts currently play in is the house that Peyton himself built and when he retires our favorite son will return home to the hearts of those fans who never stopped loving him and his statue will be erected for posterity.  It doesn't matter what goes on in Denver.  As such some Colts fans will still defend him to the death.

 

Now with that said...you are right that many Colts fans pretty much forced the moniker of "Greatest of All Time" on Peyton.  No one can live up to that kind of ridiculous pressure.  Also it is time that Colts fans acknowledge Brady and give him the respect that his accomplishments merit.  Yes...Spy Gate happened and did taint him in our view...nevertheless the fact remains that he has been incredibly consistent and has continued to win playoff games and contend year in and year out even after Spy Gate.  Brady is an elite QB and his career accomplishments have surpassed Peyton's.  They have for sometime now.  Sorry that is just the way it stands...and it is okay. 

 

In my view, it is virtually impossible to say which QB is the GOAT.  All I know is that Brady's career overall has been more successful than Peyton's.  Does that mean Tom is the better QB?  IMO not really.  It may mean that Brady has been more clutch though, that the Pats have had stronger teams around him, or that he made the most of his opportunities.  The way I see it...they are both great.  Tom is the efficient master executer whereas Peyton is the master craftsman.  Tom executes Belicheck's system to a level of offensive perfection that the league has not really seen.  Peyton is a master innovator at his unique style of quarterbacking taking the term cerebral quarterback to an entirely new level.  Both are unique in their own way and each has been implemental in pushing the other to become better.

 

The fact remains though that Peyton is somewhat post-season challenged.  To Peyton's credit, he did get his team "to the table" as Go Pats puts it twice.  Nevertheless, the facts speak for themselves at this point.  It is not entirely on Peyton but he does have to bear his share of the responsibility for his teams going one and done a record 8 times.  Before, many criticized the Colts talent or lack thereof and said it was the team's fault or the coaches' fault for holding him back.  Now with a "supposedly superior" overall Broncos team around him...yet another one and done for Peyton.  You really do have to wonder at this point if you haven't been objective enough to do so before.  IMO to continue to just make excuse after excuse for Peyton's post season frustrations just gets old and risks making one look delusional.  It's time to just accept it for what it is...I do and yes I still love Peyton.  The best argument that can be made for Peyton at this point is one that Peyton really has to make for himself going forward.  He's probably got a couple of years left to offer his own rebuttal. 

[tonychen]

The fact remains though that Peyton is somewhat post-season challenged.  To Peyton's credit, he did get his team "to the table" as Go Pats puts it twice.  Nevertheless, the facts speak for themselves at this point.  It is not entirely on Peyton but he does have to bear his share of the responsibility for his teams going one and done a record 8 times.  Before, many criticized the Colts talent or lack thereof and said it was the team's fault or the coaches' fault for holding him back.  Now with a "supposedly superior" overall Broncos team around him...yet another one and done for Peyton.  You really do have to wonder at this point if you haven't been objective enough to do so before.  IMO to continue to just make excuse after excuse for Peyton's post season frustrations just gets old and risks making one look delusional.  It's time to just accept it for what it is...I do and yes I still love Peyton.  The best argument that can be made for Peyton at this point is one that Peyton really has to make for himself going forward.  He's probably got a couple of years left to offer his own rebuttal. 

 

You are totally right. I used to say his team and coaches held him back in the past, but the fact is having the best AFC regular season defense (although they did collapse on their side) and a real deal of return game and a group of talented receivers and running backs still couldn't overcome the challenges. The coaching group that was smart enough to put Tim Tebow into the playoff and even won a game looked like a bunch of dummies and they looked identical to the poor Jim Caldwell and crews after the 2009 SB loss 2010 playoff loss.

 

I just couldn't help thinking, maybe Manning's role as a QB and OC on the field isn't good enough to win playoff games consistently. Playoff games are extremely intense, and I can see many smart people doing either job extremely well but nobody other than Manning even try to play both at the same time. If guys like Sean Payton and Drew Brees can work toghether on a scheme, I can see why it outplays Manning's.

[tonychen]

not to mention champ bailey...but yea it was all 18 fault or the missed field goal

 

Not to mention when he was with the Colts he had a drunk kicker, a non-existing special team, a poruous defense, an OL that could not black, a group of WRs dropping easy catches, and running backs that could not convert 3rd-and-1.

 

If this keeps happening every single time, even after he switches to a new team, I would have to say the guy is really ill-fated.

[Mameluc]

Not to mention when he was with the Colts he had a drunk kicker, a non-existing special team, a poruous defense, an OL that could not black, a group of WRs dropping easy catches, and running backs that could not convert 3rd-and-1.

 

If this keeps happening every single time, even after he switches to a new team, I would have to say the guy is really ill-fated.

 

lol nice sarcasm

 

i do agree that he doesn thave the calmness of his brother, Eli; having said that everyone zero on on him, and not take a look at the big picture.

 

i dont think he costed them the game saturday.  he did costed us the playoff game vs the pats for example where he threw like 3 picks on foxboro...and while i don tthink we lost the game vs the saints because of the pick six, he was a big part of why

[tonychen]

So how about giving up the idea of being QB and OC at the same time, get some capable coaches who calls most of the plays and let Manning focus on simpler audibles and execution? How about getting the HC and both OC and DC together with Manning to make a more detailed and diversified game plan? How about letting Manning play QB in a team like the SF49ers - just be a piece of the system?

 

However, I see Manning as a super hero who always want to fight his own battle. In his case the team is second to his heroics, even though his magics often dimminish in the playoffs when the other side is out-smarting him.

[chad72]

You are totally right. I used to say his team and coaches held him back in the past, but the fact is having the best AFC regular season defense (although they did collapse on their side) and a real deal of return game and a group of talented receivers and running backs still couldn't overcome the challenges. The coaching group that was smart enough to put Tim Tebow into the playoff and even won a game looked like a bunch of dummies and they looked identical to the poor Jim Caldwell and crews after the 2009 SB loss 2010 playoff loss.

 

I just couldn't help thinking, maybe Manning's role as a QB and OC on the field isn't good enough to win playoff games consistently. Playoff games are extremely intense, and I can see many smart people doing either job extremely well but nobody other than Manning even try to play both at the same time. If guys like Sean Payton and Drew Brees can work toghether on a scheme, I can see why it outplays Manning's.

 

That is where Peyton needs an aggressive playcaller who tells him otherwise and just go out and execute what is called. Only a few of them are out there - Sean Payton, Bruce Arians, Mike McCarthy, anyone that plays for Belichick or Parcells, guys that have the moxy to seize the bull by the horns and get it done, IMO. On the other hand, you could have an old school guy like Tom Coughlin trust his guys on D and his guys on D come through for him. But it is few and far between, IMO. You still need the QB pulling the trigger to make the key play in a key situation, has been the case for an old school guy like Coughlin too with Eli.

[RGIII]

I see Tony's posts and I think to myself "man, this is a guy who was really spoiled by all the success his team had".  It is not easy to win a Super Bowl.  You have to win 3-4 games in a row against the best competition the NFL has to offer and, with parity being what it is, that's a tall order.  In order to win it all your entire team has to catch fire at just the right time on top of playing well enough during the regular season to even make it in to the dance.

 

Tom Brady managed to take home three rings but consider the circumstances.  He wasn't quite the prolific QB then that he eventually became, only putting up particularly impressive numbers in one playoff game (v. Panthers) during those early years.  He never had to orchestrate a game-winning TD drive, he just had to get one of the most clutch kickers in the history of the game into range.  Since then he's failed to win another Super Bowl on two different occasions in the years after the decline of what had been a truly vicious playoff defense.  He's still by far the most successful QB of the last decade... but it took a massive team effort for that to be the case.

 

It's really not too different if you look at the other QBs with multiple rings, either.  Big Ben has been able to lean on what is consistently one of the NFL's top defensive units.  He's had a harder time lately since their rushing game fell apart and they missed the playoffs entirely this year after a bit of a down year defensively.  Eli is the perfect example of just how important it is to have your entire team start lighting it up at once.  The Giants are consistently one of the LEAST convincing regular season teams but they still made two good runs when both their inconsistent QB and their inconsistent defense hit stride at the same time.

 

Peyton's not really had much good luck, I figure.  His team has almost never been "on" enough in the playoffs to win those 3-4 games in a row even with him playing well.  If he's at all off his game then they stand no chance.  Things should have been different this year with the Denver defense but things just didn't work out once again.  That defense was fired up and at the top of their game last year when they had no chance with Tebow at the helm but unfortunately they couldn't duplicate the effort this year.

[Mameluc]

That is where Peyton needs an aggressive playcaller who tells him otherwise and just go out and execute what is called. Only a few of them are out there - Sean Payton, Bruce Arians, Mike McCarthy, anyone that plays for Belichick or Parcells, guys that have the moxy to seize the bull by the horns and get it done, IMO. On the other hand, you could have an old school guy like Tom Coughlin trust his guys on D and his guys on D come through for him. But it is few and far between, IMO. You still need the QB pulling the trigger to make the key play in a key situation, has been the case for an old school guy like Coughlin too with Eli.

and for some reason Mccarthy went conservative saturday night when he had a 4 and 7 in the 4th quarter..he needed to go for it

[oldunclemark]

You're legacy is never written until you have retired...

Remember..Elway was considered a playoff loser until his last 2 seasons..

[hawkeyes]

I've heard BB say this 100 times:

 

"There's no one I'd rather have as our quarterback than Tom Brady."

 

I'm pretty sure he's including, you know, some other guy from this era who's had a remarkable HOF career. ;)

 

 

LOL - seriously?   WHAT would you really expect him to say?

[Mameluc]

LOL - seriously?   WHAT would you really expect him to say?

that he wants matt schaub

[tonychen]

You're legacy is never written until you have retired...

Remember..Elway was considered a playoff loser until his last 2 seasons..

 

The thing is Manning really has only 1-2 yrs left. The way he switched to a new team was a good chance to show he could win big games with better support but this epic opportunity was just wasted. The case for Elway was he had some strong running game arround him in the last 2 seasons. For Manning I don't think he and his team are willing to deviated from what he has been doing and add anything that could improve the stablibty of the system but could need him to resign from his role as a OC on the field. 

[Restored]

So let me just follow your logic. Losing in the first round is choking....losing in the Superbowl is choking...so unless a team wins the Superbowl literally every single year, they become 'annual playoff chokers'?

I'm sorry, but consistently making a deep, legitimate playoff run is NOT the same as consistently losing your first game and not even having a real shot. You cant win every year. You just cant. 'Choking' is one of the most overused and misused terms in sports...

No. If they are favored to win and or are at home and they lose, I consider it a choke. The matter in which they lose plays a factor as well. Tom Brady blowing a 21-3 lead in the AFCCG ? Choke. Losing the Super Bowl when 18-0 and having already beat the team you face ? Choke. Every team that makes the playoffs has a chance. It's just a matter of who shows up. I will admit Peyton has choked at times in his career but Brady has had plenty of times where he choked to boat. Winning a meaningless playoff game on the way to blowing a 18 point lead in the AFCCG renders the previous wins moot IMO .

But in all honesty, what's the difference between losing the AFCCG and losing in the divisional ? You get no trophy and no consolation prize . The only that changes is the draft position. Jim Kelly has a ton of playoff wins but no trophys to show for it. Does that make him one of the all time greats or a choker? I'll leave that one for you to decide.

[tonychen]

that he wants matt schaub

 

Believe me he could get Schaub a SB ring as well.

[tonychen]

But in all honesty, what's the difference between losing the AFCCG and losing in the divisional ? You get no trophy and no consolation prize . The only that changes is the draft position. Jim Kelly has a ton of playoff wins but no trophys to show for it. Does that make him one of the all time greats or a choker? I'll leave that one for you to decide.

 

You might be right to some extent, since eventually only 1 team will be happy if all teams set winning the SB as their ultimate goal. But losing as the top seed and having tons of opportunities to win but blowing it out in the first playoff game sure qualifies as a choker more than losing to a better team in the Super Bowl.

[tonychen]

That is where Peyton needs an aggressive playcaller who tells him otherwise and just go out and execute what is called. Only a few of them are out there - Sean Payton, Bruce Arians, Mike McCarthy, anyone that plays for Belichick or Parcells, guys that have the moxy to seize the bull by the horns and get it done, IMO. On the other hand, you could have an old school guy like Tom Coughlin trust his guys on D and his guys on D come through for him. But it is few and far between, IMO. You still need the QB pulling the trigger to make the key play in a key situation, has been the case for an old school guy like Coughlin too with Eli.

 

The thing is could Manning be willing to work with such a coach? In the major part of his career he has been surrounded by the same kind of soft-talking coaches who look like dummies in big games. You can blame the coaches if Manning couldn't select who to work with. Ironically he avoided the strong personalities when he was given a chance to decide where to go, like he turned down the SF offer even though that team could almost garantee him a spot in the championship game. This makes me think choosing Caldwell after Dungy was also what Manning liked at first.

[jvan1973]

The thing is could Manning be willing to work with such a coach? In the major part of his career he has been surrounded by the same kind of soft-talking coaches who look like dummies in big games. You can blame the coaches if Manning couldn't select who to work with. Ironically he avoided the strong personalities when he was given a chance to decide where to go, like he turned down the SF offer even though that team could almost garantee him a spot in the championship game. This makes me think choosing Caldwell after Dungy was also what Manning liked at first.

How do you know he was offered the 9ers job?

[chad72]

The thing is could Manning be willing to work with such a coach? In the major part of his career he has been surrounded by the same kind of soft-talking coaches who look like dummies in big games. You can blame the coaches if Manning couldn't select who to work with. Ironically he avoided the strong personalities when he was given a chance to decide where to go, like he turned down the SF offer even though that team could almost garantee him a spot in the championship game. This makes me think choosing Caldwell after Dungy was also what Manning liked at first.

 

The word was, Manning was willing to work with Mike Shanahan, who worked with Elway later in his career. One would assume Mike Shanahan is flexible, and a good playcaller, adapting to his QB's strengths. Once the Redskins moved ahead for the trade, Peyton was bummed. I do think he was serious about playing lil bro in the same division, contrary to what people said.

[tonychen]

The word was, Manning was willing to work with Mike Shanahan, who worked with Elway later in his career. One would assume Mike Shanahan is flexible, and a good playcaller, adapting to his QB's strengths. Once the Redskins moved ahead for the trade, Peyton was bummed. I do think he was serious about playing lil bro in the same division, contrary to what people said.

 

Maybe they were scared by McNabb's bad time there? Or they saw more long-term value in RGIII than Manning? This justifies Colts decision to take Luck over keeping Manning.

[chad72]

Maybe they were scared by McNabb's bad time there? Or they saw more long-term value in RGIII than Manning? This justifies Colts decision to take Luck over keeping Manning.

 

I dont think these singular factors were justification. Justification was already in the 12+ years vs 3+ years long term thinking, in a business sense. Luck not making the playoffs or Peyton winning the SB, neither of those (if they happened) would have made the decision incorrect, the decision was the right business decision.

[GoPats]

LOL - seriously?   WHAT would you really expect him to say?

 

I posted that in response to someone giving Belichick all of the credit for the Patriots' success. It was tongue-in-cheek, but I guess you guys are all a little punchy this morning. ;)

[GoPats]

No. If they are favored to win and or are at home and they lose, I consider it a choke. The matter in which they lose plays a factor as well. Tom Brady blowing a 21-3 lead in the AFCCG ? Choke. Losing the Super Bowl when 18-0 and having already beat the team you face ? Choke. Every team that makes the playoffs has a chance. It's just a matter of who shows up. I will admit Peyton has choked at times in his career but Brady has had plenty of times where he choked to boat. Winning a meaningless playoff game on the way to blowing a 18 point lead in the AFCCG renders the previous wins moot IMO .

But in all honesty, what's the difference between losing the AFCCG and losing in the divisional ? You get no trophy and no consolation prize . The only that changes is the draft position. Jim Kelly has a ton of playoff wins but no trophys to show for it. Does that make him one of the all time greats or a choker? I'll leave that one for you to decide.

 

The problem here is that you made a statement and are now back-tracking to substantiate it.

 

So by this logic, any playoff loss is a choke, unless you're supposed to lose?

 

How many of Manning's 10 playoff losses with Indy were games in which the Colts were favored? Because I'm pretty sure the Broncos were 9.5 point favorites Saturday. So that's 0-for-1, plus those Indy games.

 

If you really feel that way, then you must have a very low opinion of Manning, which I'm betting you do not.

[Susie Q]

How do you know he was offered the 9ers job?

Good reply because after the 49er's saw him practice it was said that Harbaugh said something to the effect he never wanted Manning. I don't remember if it was after he accepted the position with the Broncos or before but it could be that Manning had the feeling after the interview that Harbaugh was just going through the interview because the owner wanted the interview but was not on board with having Manning as his QB. I know if I interviewed for a job and felt that the boss(coach) didn't really want the interview it would be awfully hard to work in that organization. There is a lot of what ifs because no one knows what went on in that interview we only know what the media claimed and we all know how the media can twist and turn things.   JMO  Manning said himself that he liked what he saw in Denver and how the organization was run so he picked what he felt was the best fit for him.  I think he is happy with his decision and that is what matters in life. ;)

 

Edited to add that Harbaugh changes his mind like a flip of the coin and this last flip so far he evidently made the right decision only time will tell.  They still have a game to play to see if they get to the SB. On any given day the 49er's could be beat like any other NFL team. I know they are favored but anything can happen as we all know.

[tonychen]

The problem here is that you made a statement and are now back-tracking to substantiate it.

 

So by this logic, any playoff loss is a choke, unless you're supposed to lose?

 

How many of Manning's 10 playoff losses with Indy were games in which the Colts were favored? Because I'm pretty sure the Broncos were 9.5 point favorites Saturday. So that's 0-for-1, plus those Indy games.

 

If you really feel that way, then you must have a very low opinion of Manning, which I'm betting you do not.

 

I am pretty sure in all his 1-and-dones in the past 6 yrs his team was favored. The closest might be the 08 OT loss to Chargers.

[Poster X]

The amount of derp on all sides of this forum is overwhelming... Ever since [redacted] and [redacted] decided to show up it has gone downhill pretty fast .

[Dustin]

Peyton Manning has a career post season passer rating of 88.3.

 

Tom Brady has a career post season passer rating of 86.0.

 

Discuss.

[tonychen]

Peyton Manning has a career post season passer rating of 88.3.

 

Tom Brady has a career post season passer rating of 86.0.

 

Discuss.

 

One is leading career post season losses,

one is leading career post season wins,

discuss

[jvan1973]

One is leading career post season losses,

one is leading career post season wins,

discuss

Wins and losses are a team effort.

[Dustin]

One is leading career post season losses,

one is leading career post season wins,

discuss

 

Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time.

[chad72]

I am pretty sure in all his 1-and-dones in the past 6 yrs his team was favored. The closest might be the 08 OT loss to Chargers.

 

True. But, co-incidence or lack of "luck", here are some numbers to chew on:

 

2007 Chargers playoff game - Peyton gave the Colts the lead 24-21 in the 4th qtr.

2008 Chargers playoff game - with 2 minutes to go, Peyton and the Colts had the lead 17-14 before the infamous sack

2009 Saints SB - Peyton and the Colts had the lead in the 4th qtr. 17-16 before a missed FG, and the wheels came off

2010 Jets playoff game - Peyton and the Colts had the lead 16-14 with 53 seconds to go

2012 Broncos playoff game - Peyton and the Broncos had the lead 35-28 with 70 yards to go for Flacco with 40 seconds to go

 

So, the bottomline is, it does not matter what Peyton did to give his team the lead in the 4th qtr., he still has to do more. Then I watch bro Eli and the Giants shut down the Pats after the 3rd qtr. in the SB after they go up 17-9, Giants score 12 points straight and win the SB 21-17

 

Not saying Peyton is not at fault but just pointing these out. ;)

[tonychen]

Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time.

post season QB rating

1 Aaron Rodgers 105.4

2 Bart Starr 104.8

3 Drew Brees 103.9

4 Kurt Warner 102.8

5 Joe Montana 95.6

6 Mark Sanchez 94.3

7 Ken Anderson 93.5

8 Joe Theismann 91.4

9 Eli Manning 89.3

10 Peyton Manning 88.4

11 Troy Aikman 88.3

12 Tom Brady 87.8

13 Brett Favre 86.3

14 Steve Young 85.8

15 Warren Moon 84.9

So you mean Mark Sanchez is the 6th best QB?

[tonychen]

True. But, co-incidence or lack of "luck", here are some numbers to chew on:

 

2007 Chargers playoff game - Peyton gave the Colts the lead 24-21 in the 4th qtr.

2008 Chargers playoff game - with 2 minutes to go, Peyton and the Colts had the lead 17-14 before the infamous sack

2009 Saints SB - Peyton and the Colts had the lead in the 4th qtr. 17-16 before a missed FG, and the wheels came off

2010 Jets playoff game - Peyton and the Colts had the lead 16-14 with 53 seconds to go

2012 Broncos playoff game - Peyton and the Broncos had the lead 35-28 with 70 yards to go for Flacco with 40 seconds to go

 

So, the bottomline is, it does not matter what Peyton did to give his team the lead in the 4th qtr., he still has to do more.

 

Not saying Peyton is not at fault but just pointing these out. ;)

I think as you said he still needed to do more. If co-incidence or lack of "luck" happens so many times, we just cannot call them co-incidence, especially after the conditions are changed say he has switched to a team that could give him a free 14 pts from returns.

Yesterday Texans did have a strong comeback toward the end of the game, making TDs and 2pt conversions successfully. Pats defense did not do very well in that drive. But Brady at the time had already cashed in all those opportunities to score and they already built a 3 score lead. This is clutch QBing.

[jvan1973]

I think as you said he still needed to do more. If co-incidence or lack of "luck" happens so many times, we just cannot call them co-incidence, especially after the conditions are changed say he has switched to a team that could give him a free 14 pts from returns.

Yesterday Texans did have a strong comeback toward the end of the game, making TDs and 2pt conversions successfully. Pats defense did not do very well in that drive. But Brady at the time had already cashed in all those opportunities to score and they already built a 3 score lead. This is clutch QBing.

If you are a pats fan, why are you here?

[tonychen]

If you are a pats fan, why are you here?

never a pats fan but just talking about some facts. but if the word fanatic stands for "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion" than I am not a fan for either Brady or Manning now, although I admit I was Manning's fan before Saturday for 10 yrs.

[jjcolts]

If you are a pats fan, why are you here?

Exactly?