what available oc could best match arians scheme

[Coltivated]

I can see luck being set back a little with a completly different scheme. maybe christensen would be best salution. I could see turner with a simular scheme like he did with rivers, gates, and jackson. Any thoughts

 

[ALuck>RG3]

I loved clydes playcalling

[Jules]

I don't know.

 

But, I know much of this forum seemed to want Arians to take a hike for much of this season here based on various threads. Now that he might be gone I see a different tune at times.....?

 

I don't like to lose him since I don't love turnover in coaching staffs and he did a good job leading this team on the field for a large part of the season, but at the same time I don't think it will bother me too much if he did leave too. *shrugs*

[SkyBane]

I don't know.

 

But, I know much of this forum seemed to want Arians to take a hike for much of this season here based on various threads. Now that he might be gone I see a different tune at times.....?

 

I don't like to lose him since I don't love turnover in coaching staffs and he did a good job leading this team on the field for a large part of the season, but at the same time I don't think it will bother me too much if he did leave too. *shrugs*

It's not really a matter of liking his schemes, as coaching turnover has proved to be the #1 cause of QB draft busts. You stick with an OC for the first 3-4 years of development, and by that time they are familiar enough with the NFL, that a system overhault shouldn't effect their production as much. What you are seeing is people not necessarily fearing the loss of Arians for his system, but because with a team this young, especially on offense, having stability going forward is paramount to success.

[indycrazy1887]

i personally hope he stays. i think he did an excellent job but i wouldnt blame him. you only get so many oppurtunities for a head coaching gig. i wish him the best but i hope for anmdrew and the rest of the offenses sake he stays. an excellent man and coach. thank you for a great year BA!

[GoColts8818]

I don't know how much he will fit Arians system but don't be shocked if we hire Cam Cameron.  He worked with Pagano with the Ravens and I could see him bringing him in. 

 

Another dark horse guy to watch is Marc Trestman from the CFL.  I don't know if he would give up a CFL Head Coaching job for an OC job in the NFL but he if he would I think he would have a shot.  According to Mort Grigson loves him and Mort thinks he was the runner up to Pagano for the Indy job.  With that said Trestman is getting some attention for NFL Head Coaching jobs so he would probably be a long shot. 

[BleedBlu8792]

I don't know how much he will fit Arians system but don't be shocked if we hire Cam Cameron. He worked with Pagano with the Ravens and I could see him bringing him in.

Another dark horse guy to watch is Marc Trestman from the CFL. I don't know if he would give up a CFL Head Coaching job for an OC job in the NFL but he if he would I think he would have a shot. According to Mort Grigson loves him and Mort thinks he was the runner up to Pagano for the Indy job. With that said Trestman is getting some attention for NFL Head Coaching jobs so he would probably be a long shot.

Trestman would be interesting. Just based off what happened this year with Pagano, and how well Arians stepped in, Trestman would be very beneficial if Pagano were to go down again. I would even up the ante and make him Asst. HC/OC, but as you mentioned would he want to give up a HC gig for a coordinator spot.

Going to be a very interesting couple of months...

[itmustbejj]

Just food for thought but... Al Saunders? He's only 65, an offensive genius, and continuity from Arians scheme to his wouldn't be that far off.

[YOUR GM]

Just food for thought but... Al Saunders? He's only 65, an offensive genius, and continuity from Arians scheme to his wouldn't be that far off.

 

Saunders is a Mike Martz guy. Don't know if I like that. I've also heard his playbook is ridiculously long and complex, and hard for players to grasp right away. I think he knows his stuff, offensively, but I don't think he'd be the right pick if you're trying to maintain Arians offense. Just because they're both Coryell guys doesn't make their playbooks similar

[Jason_]

Hmm, Trestman would be interesting.  However, I just did some checking and during his history as an Offensive Coordinator, his offenses were very average to well below average in the rushing game.  Over the 9 years he spent as an OC in the NFL, his offenses averaged just 99.2 yards per game and only 3 times in those 9 years did the offense rush for an average of 4 yards per carry or higher, with the highest being 4.3 yards per carry which happened twice. 

 

Now, this doesn't take into account available personnel, the wishes of his Head coaches at the time nor the fact that he was never OC of any team for more than 3 years (which also seems a bit concerning since he never left to become a HC...all of his moves were essentially lateral moves), but it does seem to create a trend towards much more of a passing offense with not as much focus on the running game.  I'm sure some fans would love that while others would hate it, but ultimately what it comes down to is what Pagano would want and I'm not sure how that would go.  Maybe if Pagano told Trestman he wanted a solid running game then Trestman could make it happen, but I guess my point is that he doesn't show a history of being able to do that.  Here are the numbers for all of the years he was OC in the NFL:

 

1989 OC of Cleveland Browns - 1609 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc
1995 OC of San Francisco - 1479 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc
1996 OC of San Francisco - 1847 yards rushing, 4.1 ypc
1998 OC of Arizona - 1627 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc
1999 OC of Arizona - 1207 yards rushing, 3.0 ypc
2000 OC of Arizona - 1278 yards rushing, 3.7 ypc
2001 OC of Oakland - 1654 yards rushing, 3.7 ypc
2002 OC of Oakland - 1762 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc
2003 OC of Oakland - 1822 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc
 

I'd love to know why he was fired from each of his jobs but the guy still at the top of my list is Greg Knapp.  Al Saunders is also an interesting prospect and if I get time today I'll go through his numbers as well.

[Jason_]

the same numbers for offenses under Al Saunders as OC...I will say I like this much better:

 

2001 OC for Kansas City - 2008 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc
2002 OC for Kansas City - 2378 yards rushing, 5.1 ypc
2003 OC for Kansas City - 1929 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc
2004 OC for Kansas City - 2289 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc
2005 OC for Kansas City - 2382 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc
2008 OC for St. Louis - 1649 yards rushing, 4.0 ypc
2011 OC for Oakland - 2110 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

[lollygagger8]

I loved clydes playcalling

So you like handing the other team a note and telling them what play we are going to run next? lol

I don't want Arians to leave because I'd really like to see this offense in it's 2nd year in the scheme and start doing things naturally and be faster at it.

[hoosierhawk]

Not a Clyde fan at all. He was Dungy's OC the last few years in Tampa and my son who lives in Tampa says he was a big part of Dungy getting fire. Notice Dungy didn't make him OC when he can here. No thanks!

[Balzer40]

If Arians leaves, as long as we don't promote Clyde, I will be happy. May not go with a known OC, but rather a young up and coming coach from a good high powered offensive team. Don't know who though.

[jwilli69]

the same numbers for offenses under Al Saunders as OC...I will say I like this much better:

2001 OC for Kansas City - 2008 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

2002 OC for Kansas City - 2378 yards rushing, 5.1 ypc

2003 OC for Kansas City - 1929 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc

2004 OC for Kansas City - 2289 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2005 OC for Kansas City - 2382 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2008 OC for St. Louis - 1649 yards rushing, 4.0 ypc

2011 OC for Oakland - 2110 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

Better talent in the olines and RB maybe. How was passing in same years?

[ColtsBlueFL]

If Arians leaves, as long as we don't promote Clyde, I will be happy. May not go with a known OC, but rather a young up and coming coach from a good high powered offensive team. Don't know who though.

Ditto on not promoting Clyde. But I do wonder if this young guy is ready for prime time yet...

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/joe-lombardi/6ea20688-c6f3-4149-b2ea-e092d93305b0#

If he has picked up the game planning and play call talents of Sean Payton, we could have a long term winner. Working with Drew Brees doesn't hurt either.

[Balzer40]

Ditto and not promoting Clyde. But I do wonder if theis young guys is ready fro prime time yet...

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/joe-lombardi/6ea20688-c6f3-4149-b2ea-e092d93305b0#

If he has picked up the planning and play call talents of Sean Payton, we could have a long term winner. Working with Drew Brees doesn't hurt either.

 

 

If he has any of his grandpa's smarts, I would give him a shot.

[BOTT]

I don't know how much he will fit Arians system but don't be shocked if we hire Cam Cameron.  He worked with Pagano with the Ravens and I could see him bringing him in. 

 

Another dark horse guy to watch is Marc Trestman from the CFL.  I don't know if he would give up a CFL Head Coaching job for an OC job in the NFL but he if he would I think he would have a shot.  According to Mort Grigson loves him and Mort thinks he was the runner up to Pagano for the Indy job.  With that said Trestman is getting some attention for NFL Head Coaching jobs so he would probably be a long shot. 

Just because guys work together doesn't mean they like or respect each other

[BOTT]

It's not really a matter of liking his schemes, as coaching turnover has proved to be the #1 cause of QB draft busts. You stick with an OC for the first 3-4 years of development, and by that time they are familiar enough with the NFL, that a system overhault shouldn't effect their production as much. What you are seeing is people not necessarily fearing the loss of Arians for his system, but because with a team this young, especially on offense, having stability going forward is paramount to success.

The #1 cause of QB busts are bad quarterbacks.

[ColtsBlueFL]

If he has any of his grandpa's smarts, I would give him a shot.

Well, his resume shows he's well rounded on both sides of the ball-

Played at Air Force Academy

1996-1998 - University of Dayton (Defensive Line Coach)

1999 - Virginia Military Institute (Tight Ends/Tackles Coach)

2000 - Bucknell University (Defensive Line Coach/Strength & Conditioning Coordinator)

2001 - New York/New Jersey Hitmen (Tight Ends/Running Backs Coach)

2002-2005 - Mercyhurst College (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Coach)

2006 - Atlanta Falcons (Defensive assistant)

2007- present - New Orleans Saints (Offensive assistant/Quarterbacks Coach)

I'm ready to make this jump if Arians moves on forward in his career.

[JoKeR]

I hope Arians stays but I'm not particularly worried if Luck and co. have to learn a somewhat different offense. Luck learned this offense before preseason.

[Dustin]

Probably Mike Martz, but I think he's retired.

[BOTT]

Probably Mike Martz, but I think he's retired.

Because nobody will hire him

[GoodLuck]

Why match his system?

[RGIII]

Saunders is a Mike Martz guy. Don't know if I like that. I've also heard his playbook is ridiculously long and complex, and hard for players to grasp right away. I think he knows his stuff, offensively, but I don't think he'd be the right pick if you're trying to maintain Arians offense. Just because they're both Coryell guys doesn't make their playbooks similar

 

 

the same numbers for offenses under Al Saunders as OC...I will say I like this much better:

 

2001 OC for Kansas City - 2008 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

2002 OC for Kansas City - 2378 yards rushing, 5.1 ypc

2003 OC for Kansas City - 1929 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc

2004 OC for Kansas City - 2289 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2005 OC for Kansas City - 2382 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2008 OC for St. Louis - 1649 yards rushing, 4.0 ypc

2011 OC for Oakland - 2110 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

 

Saunders hasn't been good since the Chiefs were good.  The Raiders had an even better rushing attack before Saunders got there and the Rams numbers didn't improve much.

[Mameluc]

well the vikings hired our DB backs coach last season to be their DC and did more than a decent job. that defense was old and didnt look very effective to me last year, this season along with the CB/S picks they looked much better.

 

so i wouldnt mind the WR coach of the saints/packers or any other offensive  guy who has good pedigree, you know coming from a good offensive background like texans, packers, patriots etc.

[Dustin]

Because nobody will hire him

 

Yeah after what he did with Chicago I'd be hesitant to hire him as well.

[Brooklyn Colt]

Ditto on not promoting Clyde. But I do wonder if this young guy is ready for prime time yet...

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/joe-lombardi/6ea20688-c6f3-4149-b2ea-e092d93305b0#

If he has picked up the game planning and play call talents of Sean Payton, we could have a long term winner. Working with Drew Brees doesn't hurt either.

Great idea! I think this would be a great hiring!

[chad72]

Marty Morninweg and Grigson's Eagles connections??? More WCO concepts???

 

Though you all know I like Ken Wisenhunt too.

[Brooklyn Colt]

Got this list of potential coordinators from a jets website..

 

HUE JACKSON
Bengals secondary coach and assistant special teams
When the Jets officially name Dennis Thurman defensive coordinator, Jackson would complete an all-Baltimore trio at the three most important positions. Ryan, Thurman and Jackson — the Ravens’ quarterbacks coach in 2008-09 — spent significant time together and know one another quite well. Perhaps no one can help Ryan discover a new offensive identity better than an old friend. Jackson has held the position in a few different places, including with the Raiders (2010), Falcons (2007), Redskins (2003) and USC (1997-2000).

NORV TURNER
Former Chargers coach
Despite his spotty record as a head coach, Turner has been highly regarded as an offensive coordinator. Among some of the highlights on his resume: Piloting the high-powered Cowboys between 1991-93, leading a dismal Chargers team in 2001 to top 16 finishes in points, yards and coaching two above-500 Dolphins teams in 2002-03. The problem here, though, is that Turner is likely the most in-demand coordinator available this offseason. He’s already been mentioned as a possibility with the Cowboys.

CAM CAMERON
Former Ravens offensive coordinator
Like Turner, Cameron’s success has been at the coordinator position. And like Jackson, there is a definite Baltimore connection. Before getting let go earlier this season, Cameron was the Ravens offensive coordinator, a job he started during before the 2008 season. A bonus here would be the way Cameron can handle a quarterback. Joe Flacco blossomed under his watch, and, with Mark Sanchez possibly still in the fold for next season, Cameron’s touch may be able to help.

GEEP CHRYST
49ers quarterbacks coach
Right now, Chryst’s responsibilities include game- and red zone-planning for a dynamic 49ers offense that has blossomed over the past two seasons. In previous jobs, he implemented a no-huddle offense in San Diego (offensive coordinator 1999-2000) and worked with a Panthers offense that had two running backs eclipse the 1,000-yard mark in the same season in 2009. The 49ers offense has definitely shown flashes of unpredictability and attack mentality. Remember Colin Kaepernick coming out of nowhere to stun the Jets this year?

JOE LOMBARDI
Saints quarterbacks coach
On his watch, Drew Brees has completed 1,279 of 1,829 passes (69.9 percent) for 14,484 yards. Add 113 touchdown passes and a 103.2 passer rating and you have the recipe for unpredictable and attacking-style right there. Lombardi is the grandson of one Vince Lombardi. Can’t hurt, right? A lot of QB coaches become offensive coordinators and although there’s no direct link between Lombardi and the Jets, it would at least be worth a phone call.

[Jason_]

Saunders hasn't been good since the Chiefs were good.  The Raiders had an even better rushing attack before Saunders got there and the Rams numbers didn't improve much.

 

Well to be fair, Saunders hasn't had much of a chance since he left the Chiefs.  Now, maybe the chiefs were good because of the talent they had or maybe they were good because Saunders was a great coach.  Possibly a combination of both.  I can't say one way or another.  However, I personally wouldn't really take his time in St. Louis or Oakland as OC too much into account since he was only given one year as OC in each place.  Can't do a whole lot in just one year.  I would be curious to know why he only spent one year in each place as OC though.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Great idea! I think this would be a great hiring!

 

I just have this feeling... Lombardi and Luck together!  

[Superman]

Trestman would be interesting. Just based off what happened this year with Pagano, and how well Arians stepped in, Trestman would be very beneficial if Pagano were to go down again. I would even up the ante and make him Asst. HC/OC, but as you mentioned would he want to give up a HC gig for a coordinator spot.

Going to be a very interesting couple of months...

 

I would like to have Trestman, but I think he'd be able to get a head coaching job whenever he really wanted to go to the NFL. I doubt he comes over as a coordinator. He's done that already.

[Superman]

Hmm, Trestman would be interesting.  However, I just did some checking and during his history as an Offensive Coordinator, his offenses were very average to well below average in the rushing game.  Over the 9 years he spent as an OC in the NFL, his offenses averaged just 99.2 yards per game and only 3 times in those 9 years did the offense rush for an average of 4 yards per carry or higher, with the highest being 4.3 yards per carry which happened twice. 

 

Now, this doesn't take into account available personnel, the wishes of his Head coaches at the time nor the fact that he was never OC of any team for more than 3 years (which also seems a bit concerning since he never left to become a HC...all of his moves were essentially lateral moves), but it does seem to create a trend towards much more of a passing offense with not as much focus on the running game.  I'm sure some fans would love that while others would hate it, but ultimately what it comes down to is what Pagano would want and I'm not sure how that would go.  Maybe if Pagano told Trestman he wanted a solid running game then Trestman could make it happen, but I guess my point is that he doesn't show a history of being able to do that.  Here are the numbers for all of the years he was OC in the NFL:

 

1989 OC of Cleveland Browns - 1609 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc

1995 OC of San Francisco - 1479 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc

1996 OC of San Francisco - 1847 yards rushing, 4.1 ypc

1998 OC of Arizona - 1627 yards rushing, 3.6 ypc

1999 OC of Arizona - 1207 yards rushing, 3.0 ypc

2000 OC of Arizona - 1278 yards rushing, 3.7 ypc

2001 OC of Oakland - 1654 yards rushing, 3.7 ypc

2002 OC of Oakland - 1762 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc

2003 OC of Oakland - 1822 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc

 

I'd love to know why he was fired from each of his jobs but the guy still at the top of my list is Greg Knapp.  Al Saunders is also an interesting prospect and if I get time today I'll go through his numbers as well.

 

 

the same numbers for offenses under Al Saunders as OC...I will say I like this much better:

 

2001 OC for Kansas City - 2008 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

2002 OC for Kansas City - 2378 yards rushing, 5.1 ypc

2003 OC for Kansas City - 1929 yards rushing, 4.3 ypc

2004 OC for Kansas City - 2289 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2005 OC for Kansas City - 2382 yards rushing, 4.6 ypc

2008 OC for St. Louis - 1649 yards rushing, 4.0 ypc

2011 OC for Oakland - 2110 yards rushing, 4.5 ypc

 

That's an interesting look at some numbers, and I definitely appreciate you doing that kind of leg work, but it seems rather cherry picked. Neither of those stats provide a comprehensive look at the effectiveness of an offense or the strengths/weaknesses of the coordinator. If you look at the Colts rushing yards and ypc from 2003 to 2009, you might see similarly unimpressive stats, but there's no question we were one of the very best offenses in the league during that stretch.

[Balzer40]

I would like to have Trestman, but I think he'd be able to get a head coaching job whenever he really wanted to go to the NFL. I doubt he comes over as a coordinator. He's done that already.

 

 

I agree, Trestman isn't going to mess around with a coordinators job. Somebody will give him a HC gig eventually.

[Superman]

I don't know.

 

But, I know much of this forum seemed to want Arians to take a hike for much of this season here based on various threads. Now that he might be gone I see a different tune at times.....?

 

I don't like to lose him since I don't love turnover in coaching staffs and he did a good job leading this team on the field for a large part of the season, but at the same time I don't think it will bother me too much if he did leave too. *shrugs*

 

I think you have a contingent of fans that like Arians' offense and think the problem is the offensive line, then you have others who think Arians' offense is more of a problem, and then you have some who fall in between. And then there's another sentiment that fears changing things with a young offense. As always, there are vocal segments of each group.

 

Personally, I like Arians a lot more than I like his play calling, and wouldn't mind having to find a new coordinator. Still, I would rather keep Arians than hire a bad replacement.

[Superman]

I agree, Trestman isn't going to mess around with a coordinators job. Somebody will give him a HC gig eventually.

 

That's also part of the reason I don't think we should hire him, even if he wanted the job. He'd be a one-and-done guy.

[BleedingBlue]

I don't know.

 

But, I know much of this forum seemed to want Arians to take a hike for much of this season here based on various threads. Now that he might be gone I see a different tune at times.....?

 

I don't like to lose him since I don't love turnover in coaching staffs and he did a good job leading this team on the field for a large part of the season, but at the same time I don't think it will bother me too much if he did leave too. *shrugs*

 

I think you have a contingent of fans that like Arians' offense and think the problem is the offensive line, then you have others who think Arians' offense is more of a problem, and then you have some who fall in between. And then there's another sentiment that fears changing things with a young offense. As always, there are vocal segments of each group.

 

Personally, I like Arians a lot more than I like his play calling, and wouldn't mind having to find a new coordinator. Still, I would rather keep Arians than hire a bad replacement.

I agree with both of these sentiments, some of you are never happy.... but I'll take it a step further....

None of you would be complaining about an OC at all if we still had Peyton Manning...the best OC in football . He can even make Clyde C. look good.

 

But seriously folks....

 

I think Arians did one thing that was very much needed.... teaching Andrew Luck Amnesia. Probably the most important thing you can teach a young QB. Forget the last play and get back out there. Throwing the ball downfield so much really helped overcome some insecurities and taught Andrew the meaning of redemption.

 

So you all can thank Bruce for that.

 

I dont' mind if Bruce takes off for a HC job, because he deserves it and timing is everything. I'm with Superman in the sentiment that I would rather have him than someone that is terrible.

[Superman]

None of you would be complaining about an OC at all if we still had Peyton Manning...

 

Sadly, that is not true. Some were complaining about our offense being too predictable even during the Tom Moore era.

[Jason_]

That's an interesting look at some numbers, and I definitely appreciate you doing that kind of leg work, but it seems rather cherry picked. Neither of those stats provide a comprehensive look at the effectiveness of an offense or the strengths/weaknesses of the coordinator. If you look at the Colts rushing yards and ypc from 2003 to 2009, you might see similarly unimpressive stats, but there's no question we were one of the very best offenses in the league during that stretch.

 

Hmm, I guess you could say it's cherry picked, but it wasn't intentionally so.  And no it's not comprehensive by any means...I'm at work so only have so much time to fool around checking out NFL stats lol.   As I said when I posted the numbers for Saunders' career, it definitely doesn't take into account the personnel (available talent), the style of offense that may have been mandated or requested by the head coach and/or gm, injuries, etc etc. 

 

I just wanted to try to get an idea of the type of successful rushing attacks these guys were able to generate and how much of a commitment these guys have shown towards establishing a successful rushing attack.  Each of the guys that have been brought up so far have done well with QB's and had successful passing games under their watch so that's one reason I didn't bother posting anything about passing numbers, and another reason of course is the lack of time since, as I said, I'm at work.

 

I have no doubt that any of the guys mentioned so far (Knapp, Saunders, Telesco, Cameron etc) could help the Colts have a solid passing game.  My preference, and more importantly Pagano's preference, though is to also have a good rushing attack to go with that.  I'd prefer a totally balanced attack over a high-flying aerial attack, so that's why I've been primarily delving into the rushing numbers of the offenses these guys have directed.