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Smonroe

Better O Line - 2010 or 2012?

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Starter wise, 2012 team is far worse, Backup wise 2010 was worse (Having A.Q Shipley helps give 2012 the backup edge)

 

 

Look at who we had starting originally at the beginning of this year

 

LT-Castonzo-Inarguably the best o lineman starting

LG-Seth Olsen

C-Satele

RG-Mcglynn

RT-Justice

 

2010 we had

 

LT-Charlie Johnson(he does not stick out good or bad in my mind)

LG-Linkenbach

Center-Saturday

RG-Mike Pollak

RT-Ryan Diem- better at RT (then he was at RG)

 

Not alot better but I give the edge to 2010 being the better O Line

 

Again, it's a matter of opinion.  And I agree with dw49's colorful analogy.  

 

So, looking at it man to man, you agree that Castonzo is better at LT, right?  I think we can all agree on that.  IMHO, that's the most important position on the line and carries the most weight in this discussion.

 

I'll give you Diem over Justice, although I still contend that Ryan was on the downside.

Jeff over either center we have now.  But, again, eveyone has to admit that Jeff was on the downside too.  Yes, I know he made the pro bowl, just like he did this year.

 

Where I really have to disagree is at the G's.  I'm not crazy about our guys, especially Olsen, but I'd take them in a heartbeat over the 10 guys.  You point out that Link was one of the 10 guys.  Well, he's still on the team and not starting.

 

What started all this was that someone said Peyton had a better line that Andrew.  I was trying to point out that in Peyton's last year his line was no better (in my opinion worse) than Andrew has right now.

 

Peace.

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Again, it's a matter of opinion.  And I agree with dw49's colorful analogy.  

 

So, looking at it man to man, you agree that Castonzo is better at LT, right?  I think we can all agree on that.  IMHO, that's the most important position on the line and carries the most weight in this discussion.

 

I'll give you Diem over Justice, although I still contend that Ryan was on the downside.

Jeff over either center we have now.  But, again, eveyone has to admit that Jeff was on the downside too.  Yes, I know he made the pro bowl, just like he did this year.

 

Where I really have to disagree is at the G's.  I'm not crazy about our guys, especially Olsen, but I'd take them in a heartbeat over the 10 guys.  You point out that Link was one of the 10 guys.  Well, he's still on the team and not starting.

 

What started all this was that someone said Peyton had a better line that Andrew.  I was trying to point out that in Peyton's last year his line was no better (in my opinion worse) than Andrew has right now.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

Not that I think you are right and the guys that think otherwise are wrong , but here's something that I'm not sure has been mentioned. In 2010 , teams would not overload or blitz like they did this year. As good as Luck is , teams are going to go after him a lot more than they would PM. So I think that may make this line appear a little worse than they really are.  

 

Talking about Link then and now. I will never forget when he was playing guard vs SD and Antonio Garay tackled Manning with Link's body.

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Again, it's a matter of opinion.  And I agree with dw49's colorful analogy.  

 

So, looking at it man to man, you agree that Castonzo is better at LT, right?  I think we can all agree on that.  IMHO, that's the most important position on the line and carries the most weight in this discussion.

 

I'll give you Diem over Justice, although I still contend that Ryan was on the downside.

Jeff over either center we have now.  But, again, eveyone has to admit that Jeff was on the downside too.  Yes, I know he made the pro bowl, just like he did this year.

 

Where I really have to disagree is at the G's.  I'm not crazy about our guys, especially Olsen, but I'd take them in a heartbeat over the 10 guys.  You point out that Link was one of the 10 guys.  Well, he's still on the team and not starting.

 

What started all this was that someone said Peyton had a better line that Andrew.  I was trying to point out that in Peyton's last year his line was no better (in my opinion worse) than Andrew has right now.

 

Peace.

Not arguing just giving my opinion. I'd just take Pollak and Linkenbach before Olsen and Mcglynn. Also I agree Castonzo is better at LT, I still think he has underperformed given that he is a starter and our LT at that, Part of our problem with this O Line besides some of these guys should not be starting is that some look to be in the wrong blocking scheme, Olsen and Mcglynn a prime example, Mcglynn might be strong enough but he just is not physical enough with his hands and gets straight legged, Olsen Im surprised can walk on two legs with the way many of his blocks have went this year

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Not trying to sound snotty or disrespectful, but there is a difference between facts and opinions. We have a difference of opinion on the first part of your post. I accept yours, but don't agree. Simply put, Castonzo and four 12 starters are better than Jeff and four 10 starters IMHO.

Please explain why I'm not stating a fact in the second post you quoted. CJ is not starting at T, Devan and Pollak are backups (actually, I'm not sure Pollak is till on a team), Jeff isn't starting and Diem retired. How is that not a fact or misleading?

Again, I'm not saying the 12 line is great, but I'll stick to my opinion that its better than 10.

Not trying to be disrepectful either, and our opinions are definetly different. but i have noticed a pattern of misleading and lack of or non-facts

fact- Link did not start a single game a right tackle in 2010

fact- Diem did not start a single game at guard in 2010-fact-

fact- DeVan was never at any point in 2012 a 3rd string player.He was a back-up from the opening day roster and ended the season a starter.

 

some of your misleading- of the 2010 starters-"none of the 2010 starters are in the league or startig at their 2010 positions.

Saturday did start 15 games the season for the Packers

DeVan did end the season a starter for the Titans. The only guy not in the league is Diem (retired) Pollack-on injured reserve Panthers  CJ with the vikings, non have been run out of the league.

2012 "is a ton better than 2010 line     Manning played behind "much worse lines in 2009 and 2010"

You try to make out like 2010 Saturday is 2012 Saturday- big difference

Diem was not on a cane or walker, played another season at guard. I'll give you credit for dropping your claim 2012 over 2009

 

This line is not "a ton better" than any line in the history of the NFL, much less 2010.

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Not trying to be disrepectful either, and our opinions are definetly different. but i have noticed a pattern of misleading and lack of or non-facts

fact- Link did not start a single game a right tackle in 2010

fact- Diem did not start a single game at guard in 2010-fact-

fact- DeVan was never at any point in 2012 a 3rd string player.He was a back-up from the opening day roster and ended the season a starter.

 

some of your misleading- of the 2010 starters-"none of the 2010 starters are in the league or startig at their 2010 positions.

Saturday did start 15 games the season for the Packers

DeVan did end the season a starter for the Titans. The only guy not in the league is Diem (retired) Pollack-on injured reserve Panthers  CJ with the vikings, non have been run out of the league.

2012 "is a ton better than 2010 line     Manning played behind "much worse lines in 2009 and 2010"

You try to make out like 2010 Saturday is 2012 Saturday- big difference

Diem was not on a cane or walker, played another season at guard. I'll give you credit for dropping your claim 2012 over 2009

 

This line is not "a ton better" than any line in the history of the NFL, much less 2010.

I won't rehash everything, just read post 41. I respect your opinion but please don't make it sound like I'm posting lies, or non facts, as you say. You know as well as me that Devan was not a starter, he's not listed as a starter on the Titans depth chart, he may have started the final game because of injury, I didn't see it. You can twist that statement, but I stick with it, no one from that 10 line is starting at the same position now.

It's my opinion that this line is better, not that they're good, and my opinion is as valid as yours. But you can rightfully prove I'm wrong with facts like this:

In my opinion, I think our defense has played fairly well. It's a fact that they gave up only one TD in each of the last four games. But you could point out that I'm wrong and it's a fact that we ended up the second worst D in the league. You'd be right, but isn't my opinion still valid?

Okay, let's be done with this.

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I'm done with it also Smonroe. I would have liked to hear your comments as to why the so called experts who judge these things for a living rated the 2010 line much higher than the 2012 and why your initial evaluation was that the 2012 line was far superior than the 2010. You seem to have tempered that however. Oh well,so be it.

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I'm done with it also Smonroe. I would have liked to hear your comments as to why the so called experts who judge these things for a living rated the 2010 line much higher than the 2012 and why your initial evaluation was that the 2012 line was far superior than the 2010. You seem to have tempered that however. Oh well,so be it.

what experts?

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I'm done with it also Smonroe. I would have liked to hear your comments as to why the so called experts who judge these things for a living rated the 2010 line much higher than the 2012 and why your initial evaluation was that the 2012 line was far superior than the 2010. You seem to have tempered that however. Oh well,so be it.

I think I said "as bad as it is..." Referring to the 12 line. I'm not sure what experts ever said either line was good. Like I said in my earlier post, you can use statistics to factually show our D is the 2nd worse in the league. Do your eyes tell you that? We're worse than the Titans, Lions, and Saints?

I've watched every Colts game, either in person or on TV, and my eyes tell me that this line is better.

What is our main complaint about Luck? That he sometimes holds the ball too long. Would that even have be possible for Peyton in 10? Did we run for more yards in 12?

Like I said, neither line was good, I feel that Castonzo gives us the edge in 12. I also feel that LT is the most important position on the line.

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This line is really bad.. When the defenders beat the snap to the QB when he's in the shotgun you know it's bad. Peyton's quick release couldn't help this.

By the way smonroe, the fact that we had more rushing yards this year was do in large part to the 255 yds that Luck had running for his life due to * pour blocking, not good blocking by the line. Take Luck and Manning yards out of the equation and 2010 ran for more yardage.

Let's hope we get help in FA.

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That was about as bad of a performance as I've seen.  With that O-line performance, it would have taken every thing imaginable to go the Colts' way for them to win the game. 

 

The fact that Luck was able to move the ball as well as he could is amazing.  Build the O-line, give him time and he will pick teams apart. 

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Brown turd = green turd.

 

We can run block a bit better now, and also have better backs. The pass sieve... I mean "protection" remains atrocious.

 

Luck is a beast, that's for sure. Andrew didn't get bent out of shape despite the whooping he took all season. I didn't think any QB could survive behind our line besides #18.

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I think I said "as bad as it is..." Referring to the 12 line. I'm not sure what experts ever said either line was good. Like I said in my earlier post, you can use statistics to factually show our D is the 2nd worse in the league. Do your eyes tell you that? We're worse than the Titans, Lions, and Saints?

I've watched every Colts game, either in person or on TV, and my eyes tell me that this line is better.

What is our main complaint about Luck? That he sometimes holds the ball too long. Would that even have be possible for Peyton in 10? Did we run for more yards in 12?

Like I said, neither line was good, I feel that Castonzo gives us the edge in 12. I also feel that LT is the most important position on the line.

 

 

What in God's name is so fancey about Castonzo ? 

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We've had some bad/overrated O-lines over the years, but I can't imagine a group, thing, or entity worse than this year's offensive line.  If even one of them is starting for us next year, the offseason is a failure.  If any of them are flipping burgers at a fast food joint, I'll stop eating there.  If they all rightfully become homeless and panhandle on an intersection I frequent, I'll dangle money at them, then drive off and laugh just before they can get to it

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We've had some bad/overrated O-lines over the years, but I can't imagine a group, thing, or entity worse than this year's offensive line.  If even one of them is starting for us next year, the offseason is a failure.  If any of them are flipping burgers at a fast food joint, I'll stop eating there.  If they all rightfully become homeless and panhandle on an intersection I frequent, I'll dangle money at them, then drive off and laugh just before they can get to it

 

Overrated? They've been poor since 2007 and BAD since 2008. Anyone who didn't realize it was living in a fantasy land.

 

However, between 2002-2006 they were very good. We had quality personnel that Polian foolishly  let slip away.

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Overrated? They've been poor since 2007 and BAD since 2008. Anyone who didn't realize it was living in a fantasy land.

 

However, between 2002-2006 they were very good. We had quality personnel that Polian foolishly  let slip away.

 

I'm not sure I agree with them ever being "very good", but my overrated comment was based on Peyton haters claiming "he only got sacked x number of times" as an argument of what a great supporting cast he had, ignoring the fact that the sack numbers were completely based on him seeing where the rush was coming from and getting the ball out quickly

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I won't rehash everything, just read post 41. I respect your opinion but please don't make it sound like I'm posting lies, or non facts, as you say. You know as well as me that Devan was not a starter, he's not listed as a starter on the Titans depth chart, he may have started the final game because of injury, I didn't see it. You can twist that statement, but I stick with it, no one from that 10 line is starting at the same position now.

It's my opinion that this line is better, not that they're good, and my opinion is as valid as yours. But you can rightfully prove I'm wrong with facts like this:

In my opinion, I think our defense has played fairly well. It's a fact that they gave up only one TD in each of the last four games. But you could point out that I'm wrong and it's a fact that we ended up the second worst D in the league. You'd be right, but isn't my opinion still valid?

Okay, let's be done with this.

Has nothing to do with opinions, maybe you should go get your eyes checked. What part of Link did not start one single regular season game at right tackle or Diem did not start one single game at guard, do you not understand,: can you see this" can you read? what about this confuses you? What about this do you think is an opinion?

and you know as well as I that, Saturday started the 1st 15 games.

If nothing else has come out of this crap, I know who's post to take with a grain of salt.

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I'm not sure I agree with them ever being "very good", but my overrated comment was based on Peyton haters claiming "he only got sacked x number of times" as an argument of what a great supporting cast he had, ignoring the fact that the sack numbers were completely based on him seeing where the rush was coming from and getting the ball out quickly

 

 

 

 

Those who can actually differentiate between O-line play and QB play know captain carry did well in spite of horrible blocking. (2007 onward) Agreed that many people don't seem to.

 

Back when we had guys like Glenn the line was pretty respectable.

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Has nothing to do with opinions, maybe you should go get your eyes checked. What part of Link did not start one single regular season game at right tackle or Diem did not start one single game at guard, do you not understand,: can you see this" can you read? what about this confuses you? What about this do you think is an opinion?

and you know as well as I that, Saturday started the 1st 15 games.

If nothing else has come out of this crap, I know who's post to take with a grain of salt.

That's your perrogative.

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We need to improve the Offensive Line. Today was another terrible outing by our O-line. Justice can't stay healthy. Ballard looked lost blocking (still he is a rookie). If they don't make the O-line priority number one this offseason Luck will get killed at some point!

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2012 had a waaay better OLine.

I remember thinking how hoorrrible the oLine was 2010 and yet on paper they looked ridiculous because of mannings quick release. No offensive line could protect luck with the amount of time he holds the ball.

Would you care to revist that after this latest debacle?

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Those who can actually differentiate between O-line play and QB play know captain carry did well in spite of horrible blocking. (2007 onward) Agreed that many people don't seem to.

 

Back when we had guys like Glenn the line was pretty respectable.

It was very good, Tarik Glenn was one heck of a tackle. Manning had all day to throw back then and  you just knew Harrison was going to catch it for a TD .

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2010, I don't know if I'd want to see Manning behind this OL. Fortunately he has a much better OL/team in Denver.

Still even with the terrible OL play and all the young rookies, revamped schemes ect the Colts had an incredible season.

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It was very good, Tarik Glenn was one heck of a tackle. Manning had all day to throw back then and it you just knew Harrison was going to catch it for a TD .

 

 

Seems like soooooo long ago....

 

Then again, I'd take our current D and special teams over any we had from 2000-2011.  Our offense was beast but the D/ST were beyond putrid. (Thank god the D showed up for a four game stretch in 2006.)

 

We'd occasionally have the D win a game for us in the regular season, but that was MAYBE once a year. (Like the Browns a few years back when it was like 9-3 or something) There was never any consistency with it.

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I think I said "as bad as it is..." Referring to the 12 line. I'm not sure what experts ever said either line was good. Like I said in my earlier post, you can use statistics to factually show our D is the 2nd worse in the league. Do your eyes tell you that? We're worse than the Titans, Lions, and Saints?

I've watched every Colts game, either in person or on TV, and my eyes tell me that this line is better.

What is our main complaint about Luck? That he sometimes holds the ball too long. Would that even have be possible for Peyton in 10? Did we run for more yards in 12?

Like I said, neither line was good, I feel that Castonzo gives us the edge in 12. I also feel that LT is the most important position on the line.

Try some truth, read your own post. you said 2012 was "a ton better than 2010 line"   try 2010 and even at one point said 2009 were "much worse than 2012"   what a joke

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2010, I don't know if I'd want to see Manning behind this OL. Fortunately he has a much better OL/team in Denver.

Still even with the terrible OL play and all the young rookies, revamped schemes ect the Colts had an incredible season.

 

"HIKE!" *TACKLE*

 

Luck and Manning (in his later years here) both have/had the same whopping 1.5 to 2 seconds to throw.

 

At least Luck has somewhat of a run game to help, but it sure isn't enough. We had no run game from 2007 onward - it was pretty much all Manning's mind/quick release that enabled him to survive. Let alone the fact he lead us to the playoffs year after year and even a SB.

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2010, I don't know if I'd want to see Manning behind this OL. Fortunately he has a much better OL/team in Denver.

Still even with the terrible OL play and all the young rookies, revamped schemes ect the Colts had an incredible season.

Manning would have retired at midseason . Luck holds the ball too long but his feet got him out of many sacks.

 

Try some truth, read your own post. you said 2012 was "a ton better than 2010 line"   try 2010 and even at one point said 2009 were "much worse than 2012"   what a joke

 

 

Try some truth, read your own post. you said 2012 was "a ton better than 2010 line"   try 2010 and even at one point said 2009 were "much worse than 2012"   what a joke

Whoever thinks this 012 line was even halfway competent is definitely on substances that are or should be illegall.

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Try some truth, read your own post. you said 2012 was "a ton better than 2010 line"   try 2010 and even at one point said 2009 were "much worse than 2012"   what a joke

Wow, you can't seem to let me have my opinion, can you?

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Wow, you can't seem to let me have my opinion, can you?

Wow you can't even deal with the things you have posted on this board, can you? can't blame you, if it had been me I would have a hard time with it too.

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Try some truth, read your own post. you said 2012 was "a ton better than 2010 line"   try 2010 and even at one point said 2009 were "much worse than 2012"   what a joke

Both years '10 and '12 we averaged 3.8 ypc

2010 O Line allowed  16

'12 sacks allowed 41

 

Both teams had the same ypc. The '12 team had slightly more yards but also more attempts

 

393 attempts for '10

440 for '12

 

'12 was worse but both were bad

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Both years '10 and '12 we averaged 3.8 ypc

2010 O Line allowed  16

'12 sacks allowed 41

 

Both teams had the same ypc. The '12 team had slightly more yards but also more attempts

 

393 attempts for '10

440 for '12

 

'12 was worse but both were bad

IMO, and I think I'm still allowed to have one, we played a different game in 12. One that put a lot more onus on the O line.

Peyton makes any line better, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I think he would have had a better year with this line than 10.

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IMO, and I think I'm still allowed to have one, we played a different game in 12. One that put a lot more onus on the O line.

Peyton makes any line better, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I think he would have had a better year with this line than 10.

???????????????????????

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IMO, and I think I'm still allowed to have one, we played a different game in 12. One that put a lot more onus on the O line.

Peyton makes any line better, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I think he would have had a better year with this line than 10.

Sure I agree but they still would not be good, They are who I said they were when I found out we picked them up, an nooooooobody believed me, lol I know what I saw with Justice, Mcglynn and Satele(although I didnt think he would be quite as horrific as he has been) and Justice is strong but just slow footed which leads to clumsiness in other areas when blocking, all three spots need upgraded 

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Sure I agree but they still would not be good, They are who I said they were when I found out we picked them up, an nooooooobody believed me, lol I know what I saw with Justice, Mcglynn and Satele(although I didnt think he would be quite as horrific as he has been) and Justice is strong but just slow footed which leads to clumsiness in other areas when blocking, all three spots need upgraded 

Castonzo is solid. Reitz was coming on but seems injury prone. The rest are disposable.

I'd take Shipley over Satele.

A lot of teams never do get their lines straightened out. I think Grigs will make it a priority.

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IMO, and I think I'm still allowed to have one, we played a different game in 12. One that put a lot more onus on the O line.

Peyton makes any line better, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I think he would have had a better year with this line than 10.

 

In my humble opinion Smonroe, Peyton may not have lasted a whole year behind this line. I agree Peyton makes any line better but he would have had to perform miracles behind this line and as much as I like Peyton I don't think he approaches that level yet.

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Peyton makes any line better, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I think he would have had a better year with this line than 10.

I and many more disagree, that Manning would do better behind the 2012 line than he did behind the 2010line,But I love how you have changed it around with the "Peyton makes any line better" thing, to try to disguise your original argument. I'm just thankful Peyton didn't have to play behind this line, for I feel he may have got his neck and head both, torn completely off and career ended.

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"HIKE!" *TACKLE*

Luck and Manning (in his later years here) both have/had the same whopping 1.5 to 2 seconds to throw.

At least Luck has somewhat of a run game to help, but it sure isn't enough. We had no run game from 2007 onward - it was pretty much all Manning's mind/quick release that enabled him to survive. Let alone the fact he lead us to the playoffs year after year and even a SB.

HIKE!" *TACKLE*

haha

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In my humble opinion Smonroe, Peyton may not have lasted a whole year behind this line. I agree Peyton makes any line better but he would have had to perform miracles behind this line and as much as I like Peyton I don't think he approaches that level yet.

We'll never know. Like I said earlier, this is a different O. If Luck could survive, given how long he holds the ball with the down field game, I think Peyton would have done fine.

Am I the only one that remembers all the "The O Line Stinks" threads that we had every week in 10?

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"HIKE!" *TACKLE*

 

Luck and Manning (in his later years here) both have/had the same whopping 1.5 to 2 seconds to throw.

 

At least Luck has somewhat of a run game to help, but it sure isn't enough. We had no run game from 2007 onward - it was pretty much all Manning's mind/quick release that enabled him to survive. Let alone the fact he lead us to the playoffs year after year and even a SB.

 

The firs SB O line was a very good one. The one against NO was pesdestrian.

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    • Hey there Amy,    Nice to meet ya & don't be shy. It's an awesome mixture of deep thinkers, jokesters, & diehard horseshoe fans here. All opinions & perspectives are welcome here. We have football fanatics, causal observers, & just curious people on here who like to vent, blow steam, broaden their horizons, & just chuckle at stuff the regulars always say. All team allegiances are encouraged to express themselves politely & peacefully here, which is pretty cool too.    I just watch the games at home on Direct TV Sunday ticket by myself usually. 
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