MVP vs Rookie of the Year

[Smonroe]

I listened to a lot of sports talk on the drive back from Indy today.  I think it was on Mike and Mike where they were discussing the MVP, between Peyton and AP.

 

They agreed they're both equally deserving, so how should they judge it.  They decided that the Bronco's were a very good team last year, even won a playoff game.  Peyton had a lot to work with but he did make them better.

 

The Vikings were horrible last year, they lost their best receiver, their QB is average, not to mention that Adrian was coming back from a horrendous injury.  And yet they made the playoffs on his legs.  Therefore, he deserves the award.

 

I'm okay with that.  But they didn't seem to want to make that the deciding factor for Rookie of the Year.

 

Double standard?  I've said it already, all three kids deserve it.

 

Now, what's that line from Animal Farm?

[Zachris]

My reasons for Luck.

Most yards for rookie QB.

Most yards in a game by a rookie QB.

Most 300 yard games by a rookie QB.

Most wins by a rookie QB taken fist overall, stands now at 11.

Took a team that was 2-11 to 11-5. From last place in the whole league to, 4th place in the AFC and 7th place in the league.

Played the whole season.

7 game winning drives?

6 fourth quarter come backs by a rookie.

Has the worst Oline of the three. Seattle and Washington both have running games, Indy is starting to find one, but still isn't there.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke. Wilson is the only other person I could see getting it, but his team was already the best out of the three, which is why I believe Luck should get it.

[Holden89]

My reasons for Luck.

Most yards for rookie QB.

Most yards in a game by a rookie QB.

Most 300 yard games by a rookie QB.

Most wins by a rookie QB taken fist overall, stands now at 11.

Took a team that was 2-11 to 11-5. From last place in the whole league to, 4th place in the AFC and 7th place in the league.

Played the whole season.

7 game winning drives?

6 fourth quarter come backs by a rookie.

Has the worst Oline of the three. Seattle and Washington both have running games, Indy is starting to find one, but still isn't there.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke. Wilson is the only other person I could see getting it, but his team was already the best out of the three, which is why I believe Luck should get it.

 

 

I agree that I'm partial to Luck, but to say RGIII doesn't deserve the award as well is just nonsense.

[Vltrophy1]

RGIII has had a very good yr. he should be in the discussion.

[trueblueblood]

name="Zachris" post="375601" timestamp="1357000982"]

My reasons for Luck.

Most yards for rookie QB.

Most yards in a game by a rookie QB.

Most 300 yard games by a rookie QB.

Most wins by a rookie QB taken fist overall, stands now at 11.

Took a team that was 2-11 to 11-5. From last place in the whole league to, 4th place in the AFC and 7th place in the league.

Played the whole season.

7 game winning drives?

6 fourth quarter come backs by a rookie.

Has the worst Oline of the three. Seattle and Washington both have running games, Indy is starting to find one, but still isn't there.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke. Wilson is the only other person I could see getting it, but his team was already the best out of the three, which is why I believe Luck should get it.

[trueblueblood]

My reasons for Luck.

Most yards for rookie QB.

Most yards in a game by a rookie QB.

Most 300 yard games by a rookie QB.

Most wins by a rookie QB taken fist overall, stands now at 11.

Took a team that was 2-11 to 11-5. From last place in the whole league to, 4th place in the AFC and 7th place in the league.

Played the whole season.

7 game winning drives?

6 fourth quarter come backs by a rookie.

Has the worst Oline of the three. Seattle and Washington both have running games, Indy is starting to find one, but still isn't there.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke. Wilson is the only other person I could see getting it, but his team was already the best out of the three, which is why I believe Luck should get it.

I can tell you for sure that rg3 will win it, unfortunately. Which is a joke because he's not even the best rookie on his team. Rg3 just gets way too much media hype and attention for him not to win it, and unfortunately, the votes are decided by people who only watch highlights and probably don't do much research. Its a popularity contest honestly, and rg3 is far more popular then luck.

[jahsoul]

My reasons for Luck.

Most yards for rookie QB.

Most yards in a game by a rookie QB.

Most 300 yard games by a rookie QB.

Most wins by a rookie QB taken fist overall, stands now at 11.

Took a team that was 2-11 to 11-5. From last place in the whole league to, 4th place in the AFC and 7th place in the league.

Played the whole season.

7 game winning drives?

6 fourth quarter come backs by a rookie.

Has the worst Oline of the three. Seattle and Washington both have running games, Indy is starting to find one, but still isn't there.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke. Wilson is the only other person I could see getting it, but his team was already the best out of the three, which is why I believe Luck should get it.

*sigh at the discredit again*

 

Look, lets just agree that all 3 are truly deserving. Fact, neither team went to the playoffs last year and now 3 rookies led teams into the playoffs, with one winning his respective division.

 

Each one has earned the respect of their peers and those around the league.

[jahsoul]

I can tell you for sure that rg3 will win it, unfortunately. Which is a joke because he's not even the best rookie on his team. Rg3 just gets way too much media hype and attention for him not to win it, and unfortunately, the votes are decided by people who only watch highlights and probably don't do much research. Its a popularity contest honestly, and rg3 is far more popular then luck.

If you want to be honest, Luck isn't the best rookie neither. But I understand that this is a Colts forum, so I digress.

[trueblueblood]

*sigh at the discredit again*

Look, lets just agree that all 3 are truly deserving. Fact, neither team went to the playoffs last year and now 3 rookies led teams into the playoffs, with one winning his respective division.

Each one has earned the respect of their peers and those around the league.

Alfred Morris deserves it more then rg3 imo

[trueblueblood]

If you want to be honest, Luck isn't the best rookie neither. But I understand that this is a Colts forum, so I digress.

Are you saying luck isn't the best rookie on the colts? If so who do you think is better? Not trying to be rude or anything, I just wanna know

[jahsoul]

Alfred Morris deserves it more then rg3 imo

Alfred Morris deserves it more than anyone but I won't discredit RG3 considering that the Redskin attitude changed once he became Captain and his teammates point that out. He has been the most consistent of the rookie QB and his "big game" performances have been stellar.  But I don't let fandom invalidate facts.

[Smonroe]

I really didn't mean to get into "who deserves the RotY award debate".

 

I was just pointing out that some people want to use the "who did the most for their team" argument for MVP.  But don't seem to want to use it for RotY.

 

I find that interesting.  And, like I said, I agree that whoever wins the award deserves it.  All three QBs and Morris were outstanding.

[jahsoul]

Are you saying luck isn't the best rookie on the colts? If so who do you think is better? Not trying to be rude or anything, I just wanna know

I actually read that wrong but Hilton is the best!!! j/k lol

 

But I won't be crazy and say that Griffin isn't the best rookie on that team. I can tell you for a fact that if Griffin wasn't at QB, Morris numbers wouldn't be that high. They benefit from each other and I recognize that.

[jahsoul]

I really didn't mean to get into "who deserves the RotY award debate".

 

I was just pointing out that some people want to use the "who did the most for their team" argument for MVP.  But don't seem to want to use it for RotY.

 

I find that interesting.  And, like I said, I agree that whoever wins the award deserves it.  All three QBs and Morris were outstanding.

Can't forget about Doug Martin neither. He was a stud!

[trueblueblood]

Alfred Morris deserves it more than anyone but I won't discredit RG3 considering that the Redskin attitude changed once he became Captain and his teammates point that out. He has been the most consistent of the rookie QB and his "big game" performances have been stellar. But I don't let fandom invalidate facts.

I wouldn't call him the most consistent, he did miss a game and some change. He also hasn't been playing that well the past couple of games, especially last night. I know he has a knee problem, but he can run, and if he can run, why can't he stand in the pocket and put up big numbers? Now that he can't run as well as he used to, his passing has declined. Which it shouldn't, because he is a pocket qb first right? At least that's what everyone says...

[trueblueblood]

I actually read that wrong but Hilton is the best!!! j/k lol

But I won't be crazy and say that Griffin isn't the best rookie on that team. I can tell you for a fact that if Griffin wasn't at QB, Morris numbers wouldn't be that high. They benefit from each other and I recognize that.

I can see where you're coming from, i guess it all boils down to who benefits more from the other. And considering almost every highlight of rg3 i have seen is coming off of play action and bootlegs, i think rg3 benefits more from Morris.

[jahsoul]

I wouldn't call him the most consistent, he did miss a game and some change. He also hasn't been playing that well the past couple of games, especially last night. I know he has a knee problem, but he can run, and if he can run, why can't he stand in the pocket and put up big numbers? Now that he can't run as well as he used to, his passing has declined. Which it shouldn't, because he is a pocket qb first right? At least that's what everyone says...

Actually, his down game was this last game and it was really no reason to throw. The game before (fresh from the leg injury when he spend more time in the pocket), he was 16-24 for 196, 2td's and 1 interception that should have been caught by his player; and this game was better than the one he had before his injury. *shrugs*

[jahsoul]

I can see where you're coming from, i guess it all boils down to who benefits more from the other. And considering almost every highlight of rg3 i have seen is coming off of play action and bootlegs, i think rg3 benefits more from Morris.

I can equivocally say that if RG3&Out was the starting QB, Morris would not have a year like this..lol. But in my opinion, this has placed itself as one of the top draft in the NFL, as far as instant impact. We have rookies coming in leading the league.

[trueblueblood]

I can equivocally say that if RG3&Out was the starting QB, Morris would not have a year like this..lol. But in my opinion, this has placed itself as one of the top draft in the NFL, as far as instant impact. We have rookies coming in leading the league.

Agreed

[John Dee]

Is it really?  

 

Preseason expectations...   Washington and Seattle BOTH playoff teams...

 

Indy.?   Pete Prisco is on record as saying ...  1 win.  

 

Most said...  what?   4-6?

 

Seattle won 7 games last season...      LAST SEASON.    Washington won 5 and drafted the savior and it's all good.

 

Indy got Luck and only went from 2 wins to 11...

 

Did you all catch that ...........    11 WINS.  but Indy played an easy schedule...  .

 

Lets let the chips fall where they may... 

I agree that I'm partial to Luck, but to say RGIII doesn't deserve the award as well is just nonsense.

[John Dee]

Skin fan spin it any way you want....   Kirk Cousins stepped in and "saved" the Redskins season with a "spectacular" effort against the Browns.  

 

I don't give a dang how you twist and turn it... but the fact of the matter is Kirk C may be your teams better option while RG3 is hurt.   

 

You won't be able to hide him next week...    

Actually, his down game was this last game and it was really no reason to throw. The game before (fresh from the leg injury when he spend more time in the pocket), he was 16-24 for 196, 2td's and 1 interception that should have been caught by his player; and this game was better than the one he had before his injury. *shrugs*

[jahsoul]

Skin fan spin it any way you want....   Kirk Cousins stepped in and "saved" the Redskins season with a "spectacular" effort against the Browns.  

 

I don't give a dang how you twist and turn it... but the fact of the matter is Kirk C may be your teams better option while RG3 is hurt.   

 

You won't be able to hide him next week...    

2 things..

 

1. I'm not a Redskins fan.

2. That's not a spin. That's facts with numbers and footage to prove it.

 

This is going to be a good game though.  I will end up missing it because I'm moving to Texas this weekend but that would be the one game I want to see.

[Malakai432]

I actually read that wrong but Hilton is the best!!! j/k lol

Best rookie WR, that I agree with. He is performing up to par with Blackmon who did eventually come out of nowhere and light it up. For Blackmon that 200 yard game helped.

[Malakai432]

I will end up missing it because I'm moving to Texas this weekend but that would be the one game I want to see.

Ah, perhaps a future Texans fan?? You would've loved yesterday's Texans/Colts game.

Unless you like Dallas that is ;)

[John Dee]

11 wins with.... 

 

Rookie   Luck QB

Rookie   Ballard  RB

Rookie   Allen   TE

Rookie   Fleener   TE

Rookie   Hilton     WR

Rookie   Brazil     WR

 

 

Simply outstanding for such a young team..    And considering that leaders stat wise QB, RB, TE, and the #2 WR are all ROOKIES.

[luckyblue]

I know this is totally off the subject but I found it interesting. On ESPN's sportnation voting on the Colts ravens game, 49,000 voters across the country pick the Colts to win by a 60 to 40% ratio, and 48 out of the 50 states are going with the Colts to beat the ravens!!!! GO COLTS

[jahsoul]

Best rookie WR, that I agree with. He is performing up to par with Blackmon who did eventually come out of nowhere and light it up. For Blackmon that 200 yard game helped.

I knew Hilton was a stud. His speed is rediculous. Man, I don't see what Arians didn't open up more screen for him and just let him blow past defenders.

 

 

Ah, perhaps a future Texans fan?? You would've loved yesterday's Texans/Colts game.

Unless you like Dallas that is ;)

Never!!!!!! lol

 

Truth be told, I've actually been rooting for the Seahawks since the travesty we call Super Bowl XL. I don't know why but after that screwjob, I've been a fan. LOL.

[superrep1967]

I think it's to bad that Luck and RGIII aren't in the same division because it would be a great rivalry for years to come if they were at least in the same conference. Because both these guys are going to have great careers. So much so it's scary.  

[ColtsHappy]

I don't know if anyone has already posted this - (Please forgive me if they have and point me there) but I was looking everywhere online with no success - to find out what the exact guidelines the Sporting News gives out to the voters. I am looking for the exact criteria/guidelines they give out when it comes to Offensive Rookie of the Year.

 

I DID see somewhere (trying to find it again) the Offensive Rookie of the Year (unlike MVP) is an award based on individual stats only - NOT a team oriented award.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Unfortunately, if this is true it certainly leaves our boy Andrew a lock for third place in the QB race....

 

Please enlighen me...

 

ColtsHappy

[Steagles]

I think Peterson should win, just like Chris Paul of the Clippers should have won it in the NBA. Its for the player most valuable to their team, NOT the best player as was said by Golic. Lebron winning in the NBA would be almost as much of a travesty as Peyton winning it this year. The Broncos were a playoff team with Tebow. The Vikings were 3rd overall in the draft, now in the playoffs. Peyton should win CPOY and Peterson should win MVP.

[Smonroe]

I think Peterson should win, just like Chris Paul of the Clippers should have won it in the NBA. Its for the player most valuable to their team, NOT the best player as was said by Golic. Lebron winning in the NBA would be almost as much of a travesty as Peyton winning it this year. The Broncos were a playoff team with Tebow. The Vikings were 3rd overall in the draft, now in the playoffs. Peyton should win CPOY and Peterson should win MVP.

Understandable. My point is that a lot of people like that logic for MVP, but not for RotY.

[Steagles]

Understandable. My point is that a lot of people like that logic for MVP, but not for RotY.

Right. I completely agree with everything your original post. It is a double standard. I was just tossing my two cents into the MVP discussion that was going on.

[Stephen]

If you want to be honest, Luck isn't the best rookie neither. But I understand that this is a Colts forum, so I digress.

in clutch he is

[JerodMayo51]

My reasons for Luck.

Only Wilson and Luck should be in the consideration, I am sorry. RGIII does NOT belong. If RGIII gets it over Luck or even Wilson, it shows that ROY is just a joke.

Yikes, I was into and agreeing with everything you said right up until this point. How can you say that RGIII shouldn't even be in consideration? He has had a phenomenal rookie year, with 3200 yards passing and 826 yards rushing, totaling 4026 total yards. He has a 4:1 TD to interception ratio passing, and threw up 7 more touchdowns on the ground as well. This was with missing a game as well, his numbers would have been much higher, but I'll also point out that missing a game is a durability issue which should also be taken into account for stuff like this.

You're also forgetting about Alfred Morris who just set the Redskins single season rushing record with over 1600 yards and double digit touchdowns. Hes had an amazing year along with Griffin and should be in consideration for the award, although they will obviously go with a Quarterback, he still needs to be mentioned in conversation because he was terrific this year.

Robert Griffin

Passing: 3,200 yards | 20 TD | 5 INT | 3 FUM | 65.6% Completion

Rushing: 826 Yards | 7 TD | | 9 FUM | 6.9 Yard Avg

Andrew Luck

Passing: 4,376 Yards | 23 TD | 18 INT | 9 FUM | 54.1% Completion

Rushing: 255 Yards | 5 TD | | 1 FUM | 4.1 Yard Avg

Russel Wilson

Passing: 3,118 Yards | 26 TD | 10 INT | 3 FUM | 64.1% Completion

Rushing: 489 Yards | 4 TD | | 2 FUM | 5.2 Yard Avg

Alfred Morris

Rushing: 1,613 Yards | 13 TD | 4 FUM | 4.8 Yard Avg

Receiving: 77 Yards | 0 TD | 0 FUM | 7.0 Yard Avg

They can all make a good case for winning it, I don't remember a rookie class ever being this good ha

[smackdown]

Is it really?  

 

Preseason expectations...   Washington and Seattle BOTH playoff teams...

 

Indy.?   Pete Prisco is on record as saying ...  1 win.  

 

Nobody thought the Redskins were a playoff team:

 

Daniel Jeremiah, NFL.COM: They don’t have the talent to match up with the top receivers inside the division. Prediction: 6-10, fourth in NFC East.

Adam Schein, NFL.COM. Prediction: 7-9, fourth in NFC East.

Pete Prisco, CBSSPORTS.com: Redskins will not top the 21-point barrier once in 2012. Prediction: 3-13, fourth in NFC East.

Pat Kirwan, CBSSPORTS.com: The Redskins have a solid defense, but RG3 will play three of his first four games on the road, which is tough for any rookie. Prediction: 6-10, fourth in NFC East.

ESPN Magazine: The Redskins will not win a divisional game in 2012. Prediction: 2-14, fourth in NFC East.

John Clayton, ESPN.com: The Redskins' biggest need was, of course, quarterback, and they dealt four high draft picks to get one. Robert Griffin III carries the hopes of a desperate fan base and the promise of being better than Rex Grossman, even as a rookie. Prediction: 6-10, fourth in NFC East.

Rick Snider, Washington Examiner:The Redskins are all-in on rookie quarterback Robert Griffin III. But Griffin isn’t Superman, even if he wears those blue tights under his burgundy jersey. Prediction: 5-11 or 6-10 if they're lucky. 4th in NFC East.

Chris Burke, Sports Illustrated: Griffin makes the Redskins a much more dangerous team, as does the addition of Pierre Garcon at wide receiver. That said, it's easier to see Washington challenging for a playoff spot in 2013 or 2014 than it is 2012. Prediction: 6-10, fourth in NFC East.

Peter King, Sports Illustrated: Not much analysis from this one. We all know this man fought tooth and nail to keep Monk from the Hall; he's a 110% hater. Prediction: 6-10, fourth in NFC East.

Matt Miller, Bleacher Report: The Robert Griffin III show comes to Washington, and while the on-field play will be better, the record won't be. As RG3 and his new targets learn to play together, there will be bumps and bruises along the way facing an incredibly tough schedule and a young playmaker at quarterback. Prediction: 3-13, fourth in NFC East.

Andy Benoit, New York Times: Long story short, he claims the Redskins overpaid for Garcon and Morgan. Also states the offensive line is the weakest link on the offense which will lead to a limited rushing attack and a baptism by fire for RGIII. Prediction: 4th in NFC East (No win/loss prediction).

Dan Parr, Pro Football Weekly: I’m sleeping on the potential sleeper. They will make strides, but not the huge ones they need to surpass division rivals.Prediction: 4th in NFC East (No win/loss prediction).

Mike Holbrook, Pro Football Weekly: Will be improved and competitive but still not enough talent to overcome the Giants or Eagles. Could move ahead of Dallas if injuries rip apart Boys.Prediction: 4th in NFC East (No win/loss prediction).

Kevin Nogle, Phinssider: No analysis given. Prediction: 2-14.

TeamRankings.com: No analysis given. Prediction: 6-10.

 

 

 

 but Indy played an easy schedule...

 

The above is the only correct thing in your entire post.

[smackdown]

RG3 is the rookie of the year. The Colt's defense carried the team. In their 11 victories, opponents averaged 18.2 points oer game, which is good for 5th in the league, which is pretty good since Luck had a lot of turnovers. I see a team with a great defense that has it's bad days. I don't know where the myth started with ESPN pundits that Andrew Luck is working with nothing. They clearly have an agenda...

[smackdown]

And without further ado, here are all the records and accomplishments of RG3 this year:

 

• NFL rookie record 102.4 passer rating.  Former record of 98.1 was held by Ben Roethlisberger (2004).
• NFL rookie record 815 rushing yards for a Quarterback.  Former record of 706 yards was held by Cam Newton (2011).
• NFL rookie record +15 Touchdown-Interception differential (tied with Russell Wilson, 2012).  Former record of +14 was held by Dan Marino (1983).
• 2nd in NFL history as a rookie with 65.6% completion.  Record of 66.4% is held by Ben Roethlisberger (2004).
• NFL rookie record 1.27% of passes attempted being intercepted.  Former record of 1.98% was held by Charlie Batch (1998).
• Led the NFL in yards per pass attempt with 8.14 YPA.  Second-best in the NFL was 8.0 YPA (Cam Newton).
• Led the NFL in yards per rush attempt with 6.8 YPC.  Second-best in the NFL was 6.5 YPC (C.J. Spiller).
• Joins Aaron Rodgers (2011) as the only 2 Quarterbacks in NFL history to finish a season with 8.1 yards per pass attempt, 65% pass completion, and only 1.27 INT%.
• Joins Dan Marino (1983) as the only rookie quarterbacks in NFL history to be initially selected to the Pro-Bowl.
• Becomes the only QB in NFL history to rush for 750 yards and finish with a passer rating over 100.0.
• Becomes the only the 2nd QB in NFL history to rush for 750 yards and finish with a +15 TD-INT differential (Randall Cunningham, 1990).
• Becomes the only QB in NFL history to rush for 750 yards and finish with a 4:1 TD-INT ratio.
• Current career leader in NFL history (rookie or vet) with 4:1 touchdown-interception ratio.  Former leader of 3.47:1 was held by Aaron Rodgers.
• Current career leader in NFL history (rookie or vet) with 620:1 yards-interception ratio.  Former leader of 457:1 was held by Aaron Rodgers.
• On pace to be the career leader in NFL history (rookie or vet) with 65.65% completion (needs a minimum of 2500 attempts).  Current leader is Drew Brees at 65.64%.
• Led the Washington Redskins offense to ranking #1 in yards per play, #1 in yards per pass, #2 in yards per rush, #2 in points per play, and #1 in giveaways per per game.
• Led the Washington Redskins to their first NFC East championship since 1999 (over the defending Super Bowl champions) and their third playoff appearance in 20 years.

 

http://www.sportingparagon.com/robert-griffin-iii-records-and-accomplishments/

[PrincetonTiger]

if it wasn't the year of the QB Morris and Martin would be fighting it out but it will be Luck, RGIII, or Wilson that gets it.

 

 

 

 

My vote:Luck 

[FireJimCaldwell]

There is an MVP, and there is an OPOY, and  DPOY.  Maybe they should create a Most Valuable Rookie, and keep the OROY and DROY.  Just a thought.

[PrincetonTiger]

There is an MVP, and there is an OPOY, and  DPOY.  Maybe they should create a Most Valuable Rookie, and keep the OROY and DROY.  Just a thought.

I would second that

 

The same way college football has awards for for every position group.