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Vick pins his struggles on Eagles O-line coach Mudd's hiring [Merge]


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#1 Pombi9

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

I found this article rather interesting because around this forum Mudd usually only received praise.

http://www.nfl.com/n...coaching-change

I am not sure about this one and it could present a rather interesting debate. Is Vick right? Or is he unable to admit his own faults and take responsibility for his poor season?

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#2 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

it was very interesting


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#3 21isSuperman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

Mudd preferred smaller, faster O-linemen.  While those guys are faster and better at pass protection, you generally lose some run blocking ability.  However, when you have a QB like Vick who might hold on to the ball for too long, your smaller O-linemen will be beat by bigger D-linemen.  I think Mudd's coaching philosophy is outdated.  However, Mudd is not the only one who caused problems in Philly.  They didn't give McCoy the ball nearly enough this season and signing all those free agents a while back really hurt them.


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#4 shakedownstreet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

some things you just don't say publicly   :facepalm:



#5 21isSuperman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:54 PM

some things you just don't say publicly   :facepalm:

 

Yep.  But not many people would have confused Vick for a real leader.


When Bob Sanders executes a push up, he does not push himself up. He pushes the world down.
When Bob Sanders was 12, a cobra bit him in the leg. After 4 days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.
Tom Brady can throw a football pretty far. Bob Sanders can throw Tom Brady even farther.
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#6 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

Mudd preferred smaller, faster O-linemen.  While those guys are faster and better at pass protection, you generally lose some run blocking ability.  However, when you have a QB like Vick who might hold on to the ball for too long, your smaller O-linemen will be beat by bigger D-linemen.  I think Mudd's coaching philosophy is outdated.  However, Mudd is not the only one who caused problems in Philly.  They didn't give McCoy the ball nearly enough this season and signing all those free agents a while back really hurt them.

agreed

 

 

It has hurt Indy's run game even today


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#7 Coltsagent

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

Are you kidding me? Sounds like the same problem most employers have in the US...people want to create jobs where they dont have to do a job.

Vick was given the opportunity to take on more work, more responsibility or to become THE leader by also making the line/blocking calls. But basically said that did not work! Why? Because it requires more work, more effort, more time and most of all standing on the edge of the cliff and not fearing to make a mistake.

#8 jahsoul

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Are you kidding me? Sounds like the same problem most employers have in the US...people want to create jobs where they dont have to do a job.

Vick was given the opportunity to take on more work, more responsibility or to become THE leader by also making the line/blocking calls. But basically said that did not work! Why? Because it requires more work, more effort, more time and most of all standing on the edge of the cliff and not fearing to make a mistake.

Please don't be one of the ones that complains about the Colts o-line because it's kind of contradictory to say that then state what you just did. If you have looked at any Philly games, you can kind of feel Vick on the O-Line. They have been getting abused by defenses all year. They have been rotated in and out because of protection issues. They are bad..


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#9 Superman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

I wish I could read the entire transcript. It sounds like he's saying the team struggled to adjust to a completely new blocking scheme, and that's not far-fetched. Many predicted it at the time.


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#10 Gavin

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

I wouldn't say he had a poor season, He is injured to much though. Time for Philly to move on I think based on draft position they will have and Vicks age(32). I dont think Vick bemoaned(I think Rosenthal needs to go back and take a look at a dictionary) anyone, He did not give Mudd a ringing endorsement but thats sure as heck not bemoaning him



#11 pacolts56

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

Well.....for comparison's sake...

 

Peyton Manning, who is as stationary an NFL QB as there is....but can read a defense better than the defense can read itself....excelled behind a Howard Mudd line.

 

On the other hand, Vick....who until RGIII came along was the most dangerously mobile QB in the NFL, but evidently can't read a defense to save his soul.....failed miserably behind Mudd's line.

 

To be fair....the Eagles lost LT Jason Peters, RT Todd Herrimans and C Jason Kelce for all or most of the season. But for Manning's final 5 years as a Colt we had only Jeff Saturday who could be considered anything close to Pro Bowl caliber, and our O-line was often in every bit the disarray Philly's is now.

 

So somewhere in the discussion....Vick's own inability in key areas of QB play should also be noted.

 


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#12 Superman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

Well.....for comparison's sake...

 

Peyton Manning, who is as stationary an NFL QB as there is....but can read a defense better than the defense can read itself....excelled behind a Howard Mudd line.

 

Manning showed that he can excel despite not having a quality offensive line, especially after 2007. I wouldn't put that kind of burden on any other quarterback in the league. And even with Manning, his yards/attempt declined to a pre-prime 6.8, with 17 interceptions. Not all on the line; the receiver corps was decimated as well, but the line play did affect Manning. Of course, there's no one better than Manning at reading a defense pre-snap and adjusting to get something out of the play. Again, I wouldn't put that burden or expectation on any other quarterback.

 

You're right that Vick isn't good at reading defenses and adjusting, but I wouldn't compare him to Manning. I do believe that Howard Mudd's philosophies have grown stale, and I think part of the deterioration of the Colts' line play can be traced back to him. Contrary to popular belief, the Colts didn't always have a bad line. It's been five years now, but before that, the line was reliable and helped produce 1,000 yard rushers year after year.


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#13 pacolts56

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

Manning showed that he can excel despite not having a quality offensive line, especially after 2007. I wouldn't put that kind of burden on any other quarterback in the league. And even with Manning, his yards/attempt declined to a pre-prime 6.8, with 17 interceptions. Not all on the line; the receiver corps was decimated as well, but the line play did affect Manning. Of course, there's no one better than Manning at reading a defense pre-snap and adjusting to get something out of the play. Again, I wouldn't put that burden or expectation on any other quarterback.

 

You're right that Vick isn't good at reading defenses and adjusting, but I wouldn't compare him to Manning. I do believe that Howard Mudd's philosophies have grown stale, and I think part of the deterioration of the Colts' line play can be traced back to him. Contrary to popular belief, the Colts didn't always have a bad line. It's been five years now, but before that, the line was reliable and helped produce 1,000 yard rushers year after year.

Those are fair points....and pre-2007 Mudd's system and better talent produced well for us. But IMO, Vick parked too much of the blame at Mudd's doorstep considering the total mess that the Eagles are.


“With Andrew, the "it" factor is his knack for making people better.

He wants his teammates to have success, wants them to get the credit.

I’ve never seen anybody like him in that respect.”  – HS Coach Eliot Allen


#14 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

Maybe the problem with Mudd is that he expected the same from his new quarterback as he did from his previous quarterback. If that is the case it is on Mudd. I highly doubt Howard would expect Vick to be in Peyton's ball park when it comes to protections/packages/calls/assignments, so to me I doubt the issue is much Mudd's fault.



#15 coltsrule91

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

no way vick is an eagle next year, but he could still be wearing green on his next team


its not T.Y its T.watttttttttt WHAT DID T JUST DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


#16 Superman

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

Those are fair points....and pre-2007 Mudd's system and better talent produced well for us. But IMO, Vick parked too much of the blame at Mudd's doorstep considering the total mess that the Eagles are.

Agreed. I didn't get the impression that he was blaming it all on Mudd, which is why I wanted to see the transcript. But either way, as someone else said, these thoughts are better left in your head.
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#17 Jules

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

no way vick is an eagle next year, but he could still be wearing green on his next team

 

Jets?!

 

Oh God, please make it happen!!!!

 

lol



#18 coltsrule91

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

Jets?!

 

Oh God, please make it happen!!!!

 

lol

 

yep jets haha


its not T.Y its T.watttttttttt WHAT DID T JUST DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


#19 Malakai432

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

Yeah Vick is just kind of a terrible QB, regardless of what OL he plays behind. I do agree though the Eagles OL and the Colts OL easily do battle as some of the worst.

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#20 Bogie

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:52 AM

That O-line is bad but he has to take into count all the mistakes he made. All that stupid running around when he should just throw it.

 

 

 

This isn't about the O-line, go back to when he was a Falcon. I should know, I had to watch him quite a lot. Look at all the coaching changes they made for him and still the same results. The Falcons would look like a real team one week and get pounded the next week. I remember when they would make the playoffs with him it was always "Michael Vick is going to prove everyone wrong this time!" and did he ever do that? Well give him credit to the gave they won against Green Bay, I have no clue what happened to the Packers at home that year, but all the other playoff games? Yeah, that's right, loses.


okv09w.jpg


#21 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:13 AM

Michael Vick is getting a little vocal now that he's about to play his last game as an Eagle.  He blame the offensive line and, in particular, the changing of coaches from Castillo to Howard Mudd as the main culprit.  Let's see if a team without Howrd Mudd decides to test that theory next year.

 

http://aol.sportingn...llo-howard-mudd


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#22 Jason_S

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:39 AM

http://forums.colts....ng/#entry371459

:)

They say you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar, but does anyone know what the final tally was?  And why didn't they try manure?  And if they did, how would that have changed the saying?  Would it be, "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar, but you'll catch the most if you're full of crap?"  


#23 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

my Uncle(Eagles fan) had a nice laugh


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