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You cannot be MVP on a non playoff team


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#121 Gramz

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

They lost to the Cardinals when they started the year hot and were 5-0... The Cardinals were beating everyone, they looked like a Super Bowl team at the start of the year, but they were not able to keep that level of play and eventually fell apart. They were one of the best teams right out of the gate when the Patriots played them. Also, Stephen Ghostkowski missed the game winning field goal in that game. The Patriots first 3 losses of the year were by a combined total of 4 points....

By all means,   much more important to be one of the Hottest Teams at season's end.


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#122 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

Actually, it was pretty easily. Broncos were playing from behind the whole game. Patriots controlled that game. That's probably one of the games you missed. *shrugs*

Yea, I was at that game and it was only close until shortly before half time, after that the Patriots easily controlled the rest of the game. Anyone who watched that game would agree that they had it under control the entire time, Manning couldn't even move the ball on the Patriots defense. Chad Henne played better than Manning did against the Pats D, but hes the sure fire MVP right!?

#123 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

We must keep in mind that Percy Harvin was in the MVP discussion not too long ago, so how you draw the conclusion that Peterson was the "sole" reason the vikings were relevant is beyond me. I think you need to look at the bigger picture as opposed to telling other people that they need too...

But I do agree with your sentiment that the playoffs (or lack there of) should not define the trophy.

All of the success the passing game has had in Minnesota is a direct result of how effective their ground game is with Peterson. Teams stack the box on a regular basis against him and he still puts up silly numbers. When teams do that, they can pop the lid off of a defense and go deep to guys like Harvin etc. You put Adrian Peterson on any team in the NFL and the QB and WR numbers would go up for that team by a lot. That is how good he is, and he is very deserving of MVP because his team is still in the playoff hunt in Week 17, and its mostly because of him and his production this year.

Percy Harvin lol...

#124 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

Can you even imagine a RB like Adrian Peterson on a high powered offense with a QB like Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers? Holy cow...

#125 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

if Breesus Christ can have his own cult why can't manning? Just saying.
breesus-christ-copy.jpg
 

hehehe

#126 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:04 PM

The irony here is I don't respect the Dallas Cowboys & I always want to see them crushed, pulverized, and annihilated like Bruce Willis says in the film Diehard "Yippee ki-yay Mother Bleeper!"

But, with New England it's different...I have profound respect for them as an NFL adversary & I take little to no glory in defeating them. More like a mutual admiration society IMO.

"I felt like anything other than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought for so long & valiantly & had suffered so much for a cause."

I know it's time to knock all the pieces off the chess board, pick up the knight, bishop, & rook individually off the floor & start over. I really respect that. Thank you NE. :thmup:

I'm the exact opposite. I celebrate like its the fourth of July when the Colts beat the Patriots. But not out of disrespect. It is because they are still the best year in and year out in the AFC, therefore winning against them is a feather in the cap. It really means something to defeat the top dog.

#127 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

All of the success the passing game has had in Minnesota is a direct result of how effective their ground game is with Peterson. Teams stack the box on a regular basis against him and he still puts up silly numbers. When teams do that, they can pop the lid off of a defense and go deep to guys like Harvin etc. You put Adrian Peterson on any team in the NFL and the QB and WR numbers would go up for that team by a lot. That is how good he is, and he is very deserving of MVP because his team is still in the playoff hunt in Week 17, and its mostly because of him and his production this year.

Percy Harvin lol...

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in another thread. It is probably harder for AP because the Vikes are pretty one dimensional. Their opponents know that they need to stop him and focus on him, giving single coverage to the receivers and stacking the box. Yet, AP is still dominating them. Against QBs like Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers, there is no one way to stop them. And let's face it, you can't look at a WR the wrong way while the ball is in the air or it's a pass interference call which makes life much easier for QBs. There are no rules that make life easier for RBs, it is all up to their vision and ability to break tackles.

#128 Pombi9

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

All of the success the passing game has had in Minnesota is a direct result of how effective their ground game is with Peterson. Teams stack the box on a regular basis against him and he still puts up silly numbers. When teams do that, they can pop the lid off of a defense and go deep to guys like Harvin etc. You put Adrian Peterson on any team in the NFL and the QB and WR numbers would go up for that team by a lot. That is how good he is, and he is very deserving of MVP because his team is still in the playoff hunt in Week 17, and its mostly because of him and his production this year.

Percy Harvin lol...

Try actually watching a Vikings game. Because after reading your paragraph it is painfully obvious you have maybe seen 1 all year.

The vikings passing game was actually a direct result of Percy Harvin, and even though he was their only weapon and almost always double covered he still found a way to get the ball. Look I live in MN and have seen more vikings games than you could bare to watch, The proof is in the pudding and you clearly have no idea.

One reason I can tell you have not seen many vikings games, is that you claim Havins success was "going deep with Harvin" When actually almost all his yards are YAC and he does most of his great plays from the backfield. Lol. But go ahead and keep pretending because it is amusing to me to watch you create your own fantasy NFL. Harvin was never used as a Jordy nelson run past the 8 guys in the box and go get a TD type of player like you are claiming, he was a multi-purpose WR who took snaps in the backfield and did end a rounds and converted 3rd downs. I don't understand how you don't even know what type of WR Percy is....

#129 oldunclemark

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

Adrian Peterson
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
JJ Watt
 
are my leading candidates
 
I'd go with Watt or Manning at this point


Manning and Brady, to me , are the top 2

I respect the record Adrian Petrson is breaking..its one of the NFL's greatest... but MVP signifies that he meant the most to a very good team and there are 12 playoff teams...you've got to be on one of them...

You have to leave injuries and records out of it for MVP, in my opinion. Those are other awards.
Tom Brady was as good as Peyton Manning this year..
JJ Watt has been a dominant defensive player and you can argue that he lifted the entire defense of a division champ.

They are 4 tall trees here..but you have to chop them down to get one

#130 oldunclemark

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:52 PM


His
Can you even imagine a RB like Adrian Peterson on a high powered offense with a QB like Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers? Holy cow...

It wouldnt be that way. Peterson's rushing numbers would go DOWN were he playing with Manning or Brady...
..His carries would go down....Petsrson's been around awhile and he's played with better QBs.


The bad mouthing of Christian Ponder is over the top, though. Look at his numbers...284 of 455, 55% 15 TDs, 12 INTs....5 fumbles
Now look at Jay Cutler: 237 of 403, 58%, 2,776, 18 TDs, 14 INts, 7 fumbles

People talk like Ponder is no threat at all

#131 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

Try actually watching a Vikings game. Because after reading your paragraph it is painfully obvious you have maybe seen 1 all year.

The vikings passing game was actually a direct result of Percy Harvin, and even though he was their only weapon and almost always double covered he still found a way to get the ball. Look I live in MN and have seen more vikings games than you could bare to watch, The proof is in the pudding and you clearly have no idea.

One reason I can tell you have not seen many vikings games, is that you claim Havins success was "going deep with Harvin" When actually almost all his yards are YAC and he does most of his great plays from the backfield. Lol. But go ahead and keep pretending because it is amusing to me to watch you create your own fantasy NFL. Harvin was never used as a Jordy nelson run past the 8 guys in the box and go get a TD type of player like you are claiming, he was a multi-purpose WR who took snaps in the backfield and did end a rounds and converted 3rd downs. I don't understand how you don't even know what type of WR Percy is....


Look, mentioning Harvin and MVP in the same sentence is laughable, unless of course you're using it in the context of "Percy Harvin will never win an NFL MVP." Then that would actually make some sense. You're literally trying to redirect people's attention from the amazing year that AP has had by suggesting that Harvin was the MVP of that team and making it go? Not even close.

Oh, and I have watched every Vikings game this year, Adrian Peterson happens to be on my fantasy team and one of my favorite players in the league. Without Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin would have had his production cut in half most likely. Everyone keys in on Adrian Peterson, which allows everyone else to see more production.

Its really a simple concept, defenses stack the box against Peterson which opens the passing lanes a lot for receivers like Harvin. If the Vikings had some scrub at RB, defenses would just focus on eliminating Harvin and his production would disappear. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about and its very obvious to anyone who follows football that Peterson is the MVP of the Vikings and can easily make the case for being MVP of the entire league this year.

#132 JerodMayo51

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

His
It wouldnt be that way. Peterson's rushing numbers would go DOWN were he playing with Manning or Brady...
..His carries would go down....Petsrson's been around awhile and he's played with better QBs.


The bad mouthing of Christian Ponder is over the top, though. Look at his numbers...284 of 455, 55% 15 TDs, 12 INTs....5 fumbles
Now look at Jay Cutler: 237 of 403, 58%, 2,776, 18 TDs, 14 INts, 7 fumbles

People talk like Ponder is no threat at all

His numbers would go down, but he would still be insanely effective. An elite QB that spreads out 4 WR, with AP in the backfield? He would be going up against 5 or 6 men in the box. He would be averaging like 6 yards a carry probably and that offense would be ridiculously productive and efficient.

#133 Pombi9

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

Look, mentioning Harvin and MVP in the same sentence is laughable, unless of course you're using it in the context of "Percy Harvin will never win an NFL MVP." Then that would actually make some sense. You're literally trying to redirect people's attention from the amazing year that AP has had by suggesting that Harvin was the MVP of that team and making it go? Not even close.

Oh, and I have watched every Vikings game this year, Adrian Peterson happens to be on my fantasy team and one of my favorite players in the league. Without Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin would have had his production cut in half most likely. Everyone keys in on Adrian Peterson, which allows everyone else to see more production.

Its really a simple concept, defenses stack the box against Peterson which opens the passing lanes a lot for receivers like Harvin. If the Vikings had some scrub at RB, defenses would just focus on eliminating Harvin and his production would disappear. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about and its very obvious to anyone who follows football that Peterson is the MVP of the Vikings and can easily make the case for being MVP of the entire league this year.

I never claimed Harvin to be MVP all I was saying was around week 6 those articles were out there. And if you watched so many vikings games I don't know why you were pretending Harvin was such a deep threat created by AP because we all know Ponder is not accurate deep.

Harvins production would not disappear without AP but it would diminish some. I am not suggesting Harvin was the MVP of that team, you are simply putting words in my mouth. I am suggesting however that Harvin was arguably as important to the team as AP and now without him they have almost no passing game other than Rudolph so the team is directly put on AP's back and people are acting like it has been that way all season. I seriously doubt you have watched so many Vikings games if you feel that Harvin was simply just benefiting from "open passing lanes". He did so much more.

#134 House

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

There's a lot of stones being thrown in this thread. Hope you all have your glass insured......
In another moment, down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.

#135 ViriLudant

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

lmao checkmate nothin. Easily.. lmao.. thanks for the laughs..
Funny how you love to ignore reality .

Yes, the Patriots EASILY beat the Broncos.
They had what, a 4-5 score lead at one point, and won by 2 scores?

Simple.

JJ and I have both mentioned that it was one of the most relaxed games we've experienced recently.
I didn't feel one ounce of tension during that game.

Easy.

#136 southwest1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

I'm the exact opposite. I celebrate like its the fourth of July when the Colts beat the Patriots. But not out of disrespect. It is because they are still the best year in and year out in the AFC, therefore winning against them is a feather in the cap. It really means something to defeat the top dog.

I can certainly appreciate your perspective as well as your need to celebrate a hard fought victory against the Patriots No 1 Manning Fan. Defeating NE is extremely rare especially at Foxboro. If you are so inclined, by all means commemorate the occasion as you see fit. As for me, any victory against NE is shortlived unless it is an AFC Championship game on route to the SB. I agree with you though NE is "top dog" & the cream of the NFL crop right now.

 

Consistency is what I strive for with my Colts & why I respect the Patriots so much. They just keeping winning & chugging along...Month after month, year after year, decade after decade. Longevity of success is what I desire & what I respect most.  

 

Sharp minds either from West Point or Annapolis are never to be underestimated...Their will always be a rematch with new wrinkles & surprises to contend with & I will always admire that reality. 


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#137 -JJ-

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

His
It wouldnt be that way. Peterson's rushing numbers would go DOWN were he playing with Manning or Brady...
..His carries would go down....Petsrson's been around awhile and he's played with better QBs.


 

Gotta agree with Mayo here. It AP was on the Patriots (or like QB team) they would be running him big time. Any coach who knew he could be winning by running alone would do so.In a heartbeat.



#138 Jules

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

I never thought Denver was going to beat NE either. Before the game or during the game.

 

BTW last season with Peyton out I did a lot of reflecting too. I was also guilty at times in the past of getting absolutely sucked into these Manning vs. Brady arguments and I was taking it seriously along with the GOAT junk. I still partake in them at times but a lot of times now it is tongue in cheek for me. Why does one have to be clearly better then the other? Why are Peyton fans so into proving he means more to his teams then any player all the time? If he is really the best do you really have to argue for him? Sometimes his fans and the media seem to try to convince everyone too much.

 

It was like I woke up a bit last year and realized how ridiculous I was once being.....2011 was a cleansing experience for me in so many ways when it came to the NFL.

 

I really no longer hate the Pats or Brady. Of course when we played them this year I was hating but I hate on anyone we play most of the time. Heck I love Aaron Rodgers and I wanted us to pound him when we played the Pack.

 

But, last season the Pats/Colts intense hatred rivalry we have had for years seemed to start to fade with me.

 

I don't care. If someone says Brady is better then Peyton or whatever then be my guest. You have an argument for it.

 

 

We all need to wake up and stop trying to make one guy THE BEST all the time. It's a team sport. Of course I won't lie, I would love to see Andrew be the best someday but I don't even care if he wins that rookie trophy anymore. I just want to win. If the Colts won a few Super Bowls someday and Andrew was compared more to Eli then Peyton I don't care. I would rather have the SBs then the MVP trophies and the universally accepted best label.

 

Why are individual accolades acceptable in the regular season but we can't blame QBs more in the postseason? Why does the team sport aspect get brought out in the playoffs but in the regular season we give most of the glory to just the QBs in the regular season?

 

Why are we really and truly so obsessed at times in our society with making certain athletes the best to ever play the game and to put down past greats too?

 

Whats wrong with just being "one of the best"? Why is there an obsession with THE best for fans with all these players, mainly QBs.

 

And of course an MVP can be from a non playoff team, the more I think about it the more sense it makes to me. Why should Peterson be penalized for not having a good QB on his team?

 

And if Manning wins MVP what about all those guys in Denver last year who literally at times CARRIED Tebow to the divisional round? All those defensive guys who busted their butts the entire regular season keeping the games close so Tebow could steal the media glory and their #1 rushing attack in 2011. Do those guys not deserve more credit too?



#139 DILLIGAFER

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

I never thought Denver was going to beat NE either. Before the game or during the game.

BTW last season with Peyton out I did a lot of reflecting too. I was also guilty at times in the past of getting absolutely sucked into these Manning vs. Brady arguments and I was taking it seriously along with the GOAT junk. I still partake in them at times but a lot of times now it is tongue in cheek for me. Why does one have to be clearly better then the other? Why are Peyton fans so into proving he means more to his teams then any player all the time? If he is really the best do you really have to argue for him? Sometimes his fans and the media seem to try to convince everyone too much.

It was like I woke up a bit last year and realized how ridiculous I was once being.....2011 was a cleansing experience for me in so many ways when it came to the NFL.

I really no longer hate the Pats or Brady. Of course when we played them this year I was hating but I hate on anyone we play most of the time. Heck I love Aaron Rodgers and I wanted us to pound him when we played the Pack.

But, last season the Pats/Colts intense hatred rivalry we have had for years seemed to start to fade with me.

I don't care. If someone says Brady is better then Peyton or whatever then be my guest. You have an argument for it.


We all need to wake up and stop trying to make one guy THE BEST all the time. It's a team sport. Of course I won't lie, I would love to see Andrew be the best someday but I don't even care if he wins that rookie trophy anymore. I just want to win. If the Colts won a few Super Bowls someday and Andrew was compared more to Eli then Peyton I don't care. I would rather have the SBs then the MVP trophies and the universally accepted best label.

Why are individual accolades acceptable in the regular season but we can't blame QBs more in the postseason? Why does the team sport aspect get brought out in the playoffs but in the regular season we give most of the glory to just the QBs in the regular season?

Why are we really and truly so obsessed at times in our society with making certain athletes the best to ever play the game and to put down past greats too?

Whats wrong with just being "one of the best"? Why is there an obsession with THE best for fans with all these players, mainly QBs.

And of course an MVP can be from a non playoff team, the more I think about it the more sense it makes to me. Why should Peterson be penalized for not having a good QB on his team?

And if Manning wins MVP what about all those guys in Denver last year who literally at times CARRIED Tebow to the divisional round? All those defensive guys who busted their butts the entire regular season keeping the games close so Tebow could steal the media glory and their #1 rushing attack in 2011. Do those guys not deserve more credit too?

Peyton has stated numerous times that he feels the MVP is a team award, because without his Team, he couldnt do what he does. So that just blows that argument out of the water.
The media may not give them credit, but Peyton does and they know it.






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