You cannot be MVP on a non playoff team

[southwest1]

QB Popularity Criteria:

 

---Win College Championships or be a Heisman Trophy contender

 

--kiss the media's caboose & always agree to be interviewed by them. They really dislike being told no. 

 

--win NFL games, especially tight comeback ones in the 4th Qtr. 

 

--Play for an annual Playoffs bound HC like Shanahan or Belichick etc.

 

--Do charity work for children as often as possible. 

 

--Become a master at dodging questions like who is the best QB playing today? Or flip it around: I don't write for a living media, why don't you tell me? 

 

Feel free to add more to this list at your leisure everyone...

[oldunclemark]

Buyt

Lets say....oh I don't know....lets say in 2004 Peyton Manning threw for 49 touchdowns but the team only went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. Would you have tried to make a case for him as MVP then?

the question..not a hypothetical one..is Adrian Peterson..this season...I'm sure you've heard about him.

Doing quite well. Fine young man. But can you be the MVP on a non-playoff team?

This player. This year.

[dynasty13]

Buytthe question..not a hypothetical one..is Adrian Peterson..this season...I'm sure you've heard about him.

Doing quite well. Fine young man. But can you be the MVP on a non-playoff team?

This player. This year.

 

The point of a hypothetical is to establish a consistency of thought. To see if you would remain true to your opinion on the subject should it involve someone you are biased towards.

 

You're refusal to answer is very telling in its own right. Thank you...I think I have all I need.

[jahsoul]

QB Popularity Criteria:

 

---Win College Championships or be a Heisman Trophy contender

 

--kiss the media's caboose & always agree to be interviewed by them. They really dislike being told no. 

 

--win NFL games, especially tight comeback ones in the 4th Qtr. 

 

--Play for an annual Playoffs bound HC like Shanahan or Belichick etc.

 

--Do charity work for children as often as possible. 

 

--Become a master at dodging questions like who is the best QB playing today? Or flip it around: I don't write for a living media, why don't you tell me? 

 

Feel free to add more to this list at your leisure everyone...

Be called the "greatest prospect since John Elway."

 

*runs out*

[jahsoul]

Lost by 6 to Atlanta

Lost by 6 to Houston

Lost by 10 to the Patriots.

 

 

 

Which of those was a blowout?  Anyway, stop lumping all Colts fans into the "Manning can do no wrong" Category.  If I had a vote it would be placed firmly into the Adrian Peterson side of the argument.  I just know how the NFL works, and unless AP breaks the record, he is NOT getting the award!  It's between Manning and Brady, and RIGHT NOW Manning is in the lead.  If Brady has an outstanding game, and Manning has a clunker, I think it can and will change.

Actually, those loses were worse than the score suggest. Most of those were 4th quarter point with the other team dominating most of the game but I digress..

 

What you said about how the NFL works is the reason I've always questioned the MVP award and I believe that the offensive and defensive player of the year awards will always hold more weight than the MVP. That being said, I believe that Manning will get it just because he is Manning. He is the sole reason (to many, sadly) that the Broncos are going playoffs. lol

[Snowglobe]

I've noticed something over the years. Colts fans are literally incapable of giving credit to another player if it means hurting the perception of Peyton Manning or his chances at winning some award. All those years ago when we were having Brady vs Manning debates, everyone wearing speed blue would claim it was defense defense defense that won those Patriots titles and Tom Brady didnt do squat. Now the same thing when others are trying to build a case for Adrian Peterson. 

 

When Peyton Manning wins, its completely because of him. No help....all on him. Everything he touches turns to gold. Whenever another player wins or does something good, there has to be some excuse or some other explanation for how they could possibly have done it. 

 

Excellent Point. It seems ex-Colts fans/Broncos fans have tunnel vision. Peyton can do no wrong. Those playoff losses? Not his fault. 9-10 record? Playoff wins are a team accomplishment. 1 SB ring? Teams win championships. There is literally an excuse for every single thing Manning does. Vice versa for Brady's success. His rings? Defense won it. 50 TD record? Well he needed 16 games. Winning percentage? Because of Bill Belichick. It's so hypocritical that it's alarming. Don't get me started on how they cling onto Eli when Peyton loses or Brady wins. 

[oldunclemark]

The point of a hypothetical is to establish a consistency of thought. To see if you would remain true to your opinion on the subject should it involve someone you are biased towards.

 

You're refusal to answer is very telling in its own right. Thank you...I think I have all I need.

Your anti-Manning bias is showing.....

The thread does not refer to Manning...only to Adrian Peterson, who cannot be the MVP if Minnesota does not make the playoffs.

I asked. You ducked. So I'm sensing we agree on that........You are entitled to your bias

[oldunclemark]

Actually, those loses were worse than the score suggest. Most of those were 4th quarter point with the other team dominating most of the game but I digress..

 

What you said about how the NFL works is the reason I've always questioned the MVP award and I believe that the offensive and defensive player of the year awards will always hold more weight than the MVP. That being said, I believe that Manning will get it just because he is Manning. He is the sole reason (to many, sadly) that the Broncos are going playoffs. lol

we do attract the anti-Manning crowd....good for them..they can be anonymous here

Its really hard to find anyone who thinks that Adrian Peterson should be MVP if his team doe snot make the playoffs.......unless the other candidate is Peyton Mannjng

[southwest1]

Personally, I don't view it as mandatory that an MVP candidate like Adrian Peterson must be on a Playoff bound team. Most valuable player means most important athlete on your squad for the entire NFL. Just my 2 cents.

 

Sure, it would be nice to be a Playoffs bound team I will admit, but I don't view a lack of a playoff berth as a requirement for MVP.

[jahsoul]

we do attract the anti-Manning crowd....good for them..they can be anonymous here

Its really hard to find anyone who thinks that Adrian Peterson should be MVP if his team doe snot make the playoffs.......unless the other candidate is Peyton Mannjng

I don't know if you were talking about me, but I've been a fan of Peyton Manning longer than most on here; 1994 to be exact (with my favorite college team being in the SEC, I always look around the conference).

 

That being said, we can agree that AP will more than likely get the OPOY but lets focus in on the MVP. To try to negate what AP has done is crazy, especially considering they have a subpar QB. If Ponder was an average QB, they wouldn't be in a win and in situation. That being said, lets see how the rest of the season plays out but I will go on record and say this; AP means more to the Vikings and their success than Peyton Manning and the Broncos. (see 2011 AFC West Champions-Denver Broncos)

[oldunclemark]

I wasnt referring negatively to you.. .....

.......just to those who seemingly have tired of Manning winning the MVP...

I think that if you evaluate the 2 players and take the names off..the QB of the 13-3 team wins hands down.

over the league's leading rusher on a 10-6 non playoff team.

Its only a question because its Peyton Manning and he's won 4 times..and there is some Manning-fatigue. It happens. I know its not personal

..But this isnt close and this is coming from a guy who's been a big fan of Peterson his entire career...

I think that Minnesota depends very heavily on Adrian but there are certain team requirements in my mind and that's what this post was all about.

You have to at LEAST make the playoffs to be MVP....no matter who your teammates are..no matter what records you break....no mater what injuries you miraculosly come back from.

There are minimum requirements that cant be overlooked

[southwest1]

Excellent Point. It seems ex-Colts fans/Broncos fans have tunnel vision. Peyton can do no wrong. Those playoff losses? Not his fault. 9-10 record? Playoff wins are a team accomplishment. 1 SB ring? Teams win championships. There is literally an excuse for every single thing Manning does. Vice versa for Brady's success. His rings? Defense won it. 50 TD record? Well he needed 16 games. Winning percentage? Because of Bill Belichick. It's so hypocritical that it's alarming. Don't get me started on how they cling onto Eli when Peyton loses or Brady wins. 

You make a number good points here SG. I agree with you that Brady is never given appropriate credit for his vital role in winning SB rings particularly the defense excuse and the Bellichick excuse. Tom Brady is wicked smart & he could easily win on another football team. Put him on the Broncos right now & he'd still win IMO.

 

I may dislike how the "Tuck Rule" was interpreted personally, but I have a ton of respect for what Brady did singlehandedly to win that game & put the Patriots on the road toward NFL Dynasty immortality. I will always respect Brady for that. 

[Jay Kirk]

Well heres my opinion on how this goes,if i were betting i bet Peyton wins this,not arguing if hes most deserving,but i bet he wins it

[southwest1]

Yes, I still favor #18 & I even affectionately call him "Yoda" due to his line of scrimmage mastery, but I really dislike choosing between Manning & Brady. I respect them both tremendously. It's like arguing over the fraction of a decimal point. 

 

Part of me wants to see Pats vs Broncos in the AFC Championship Game just 1 last time like a final rock-n-roll reunion tour of your favorite band...A darn good thing in my estimation...

[Gavin]

Adrian Peterson

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

JJ Watt

 

are my leading candidates

 

I'd go with Watt or Manning at this point

[DILLIGAFER]

And the Patriots lost to the Cardinals... and have a worse record than the Broncos.. ya know.. just stating facts for ya Pats fans that wanna throw that mud around.

[southwest1]

Well heres my opinion on how this goes,if i were betting i bet Peyton wins this,not arguing if hes most deserving,but i bet he wins it

I could see the press/media personnel doing that Jay. Funny really, initially I dismissed Adrian Peterson as MVP, but now I think AP should win something this year. Manning should get Comeback Player Of The Year. Tom Brady deserves something too though...Dual MVP perhaps...Foxboro fans have a right to be royally ticked off if Brady gets nothing...Brady's consistency is remarkable though. I am very impressed with Brady this year anyway. 

[DILLIGAFER]

BTW.. this topic is the kiss of death..

[southwest1]

Adrian Peterson

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

JJ Watt

 

are my leading candidates

 

I'd go with Watt or Manning at this point

 

An intriguing argument Gavin...It won't happen though. JJ Watt has had an incredible season no doubt, but he's not strong enough/popular enough to trump AP, Manning, or Brady for MVP.

 

You get 5 thumbs up for your ingenuity & creativity Gavin.          

[Coltsince4]

Bingo...

I discuss on so many NFL message boards, and I've never seen one that has so much of a Cult feeling as the Colts do with Manning. They will literally drag any player into the mud and try to diminish their accomplishments because they feel that it makes Manning look bad because he isn't winning his 5th MVP or whatever. Its beyond ridiculous, the force is too strong with them to have an objective conversation.

I've been on this board since 2001 as well, and there are usually only a handful of posters that can sit back and are actually fans of football and not Manning worshipers. Its a cult following for real ha, its just totally insane.

If AP or Brady wins the MVP, they would take it as a personal shot at Manning. All they care about is Manning being portrayed as the Greatest Of All Time, second to no one.

 

if Breesus Christ can have his own cult why can't manning? Just saying.

[Jules]

if Breesus Christ can have his own cult why can't manning? Just saying.

 

[ViriLudant]

But the Vikings would not have won 6 games without their star running back? Right?

They wouldn't have won 2 games without Peterson. Glad to see that you finally understand.

[ViriLudant]

And the Patriots lost to the Cardinals... and have a worse record than the Broncos.. ya know.. just stating facts for ya Pats fans that wanna throw that mud around.

And yet Brady beat the Broncos. Easily, I might add.

Checkmate.

[DILLIGAFER]

And yet Brady beat the Broncos. Easily, I might add.

Checkmate.

checkmate nothin. Easily.. .. thanks for the laughs..

[Jules]

Is it true Brady never has lost to a JDR defense?  I just read this. Wow......

 

But, now that I recall it was vs. the Jags too that Brady had that perfect game in 2007 in the playoffs.

 

I don't think he ever throws picks vs. his D's.

 

If Broncos/Pats play again JDR better dig into his bag of new tricks IMO.

 

OT maybe but I am sick of MVP. We all know it is going to Peyton so congrats to Peyton. Lets talk playoff matchups!

[jahsoul]

checkmate nothin. Easily.. .. thanks for the laughs..

Actually, it was pretty easily. Broncos were playing from behind the whole game. Patriots controlled that game. That's probably one of the games you missed. *shrugs*

[Snowglobe]

You make a number good points here SG. I agree with you that Brady is never given appropriate credit for his vital role in winning SB rings particularly the defense excuse and the Bellichick excuse. Tom Brady is wicked smart & he could easily win on another football team. Put him on the Broncos right now & he'd still win IMO.

 

I may dislike how the "Tuck Rule" was interpreted personally, but I have a ton of respect for what Brady did singlehandedly to win that game & put the Patriots on the road toward NFL Dynasty immortality. I will always respect Brady for that. 

We need more posters like you SW. Good level headed Colts fans that don't jump ship when their QB leaves. If they had some kind of Colts ambassador or something, I'd vote for ya.

[southwest1]

We need more posters like you SW. Good level headed Colts fans that don't jump ship when their QB leaves. If they had some kind of Colts ambassador or something, I'd vote for ya.

Thanks for the kind words on my behalf SG.    For the life of me, I do not understand why so many people dislike Brady. He is the shining example of the American Dream. He came to the NFL Combine a no name that many teams bypassed. He simply was given nothing & he earned all the accolades he received. Brady used being bypassed as fuel. "Mr. Kraft picking me was the best decision you ever made." Absolutely right coupled with hiring Bill Belichick. Tom never complained working behind Drew Bledsoe either. He just mastered the playbook & won the position through tenacity, dedication, & earning the trust of the Grey Hoodie. 

 

The Patriots may be a rival, but they are a respected rival like Civil Generals that both attended West Point. It's always a chess match that challenges both teams & requires maximum execution & concentration & I love that.  Your squad demands precision attention to detail, no foolish penalties, & a keen awareness of strategy & situation football. Win or lose there is always something to learn from Bill Belichick a true student of NFL history & football. I said it before & I say it again: The Patriots bring out the best in the Colts & we bring out the best in them. The best rivalry in football. The Colts are not at full strength yet, but we will return to form in short order. 

 

Even if the Colts beat the Patriots, the victory is shortlived because Brady & Belichick are always adapting, evolving, learning, & exposing new vulnerabilities...God, I live for this...Tiny cracks in the armor...Lapses in concentration are the only difference between victory or defeat...Ulysses S. Grant vs Robert E. Lee

[southwest1]

Ulysses S. Grant's internal sentiments to Robert E. Lee at Appomattox Courthouse in Virginia on April 9, 1865: 

 

"I felt like anything other than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought for so long & valiantly & had suffered so much for a cause." 

 

Okay, no one died in a Patriots vs Colts matchup, but all the players on both squads feel tired, exhausted, & fatigued like 2 arch rivals who lay down their swords out of admiration & sheer sore muscles right? 

 

Yes I know, SW1 has a flair for the dramatic...  

[southwest1]

Actually, the Patriots/Colts rivalry reminds me of this WB Sam & Ralph cartoon. You try to outwit 1 another, the clock runs out, & you say "See you in the next round pal. Good game!"

 

http://youtu.be/uOSuhxFo76o

 

"It's too close to quittin' time ralph. Let's pick it up there in the morning [or after halftime.]  

 

http://youtu.be/5VYtiyjqx7E

[southwest1]

The irony here is I don't respect the Dallas Cowboys & I always want to see them crushed, pulverized, and annihilated like Bruce Willis says in the film Diehard "Yippee ki-yay Mother Bleeper!"

 

But, with New England it's different...I have profound respect for them as an NFL adversary & I take little to no glory in defeating them. More like a mutual admiration society IMO. 

 

"I felt like anything other than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought for so long & valiantly & had suffered so much for a cause." 

 

I know it's time to knock all the pieces off the chess board, pick up the knight, bishop, & rook individually off the floor & start over. I really respect that. Thank you NE.   

[southwest1]

One of my favorite films "Searching For Bobby Fisher" deals with a genius child prodigy chess player named Josh. When the lightbulb flips on & QBs see all the pieces in motion & can manipulate the secondary it's a beautiful sight to watch...Not exactly right on point but you will grasp the idea I was shooting for anyway...

 

 

Should you have contempt for your opponent? Hmmm...For me, it's a question of who has earned my respect as a team or collective unit...

 

[southwest1]

Everytime I see that 1st Bobby Fisher clip, I think of pieces bouncing off the floor & a future HOF QB who sees the game slow down for the very 1st time & what an adrenaline rush that must be...

 

The certificate represents a rare skill set of intellect, discipline, & rigorous study that only about 1 out of every 10,000 QBs actually posses IMO. Translation: Very few people can appreciate what a landmark skill you have.

 

The 2nd clip regarding contempt reminds me of heated NFL rivalries: Redskins vs Dallas, Bears vs Packers, & 49ers vs the Raiders...Forget season records just stomp on your enemy often & repeatedly. 

[southwest1]

The reason why all the best NFL QBs like Manning, Brady, Brees, & Rogers like their fingers so much...They know all the tendencies of a defense & secondary so well that they know exactly where you are vulnerable & they nail your behind to the wall with great anticipation & satisfaction. "Good Game" Indeed; more like..."Your mine now expletive"...HA! HA! Point, set, match baby!!!

 

[Pombi9]

Why are you trying so hard to undermine what Adrian Peterson has been able to do? Are you that worried about making a push for Peyton Manning to win another one that you have to make up reasons for why the other nominees are undeserving? 

 

I know its a popular sentiment to say that a player cant be MVP if the team doesnt make the playoffs....but in Peterson's case, isn't it even more impressive that he is the sole reason for that team to even be relevant and still have a shot at the playoffs? Without him, do you think they are even sniffing the post season? Yet here they are, still with a shot, and its because of him. Is that not exactly what the most valuable player is?

 

Think about the MVP in the big picture. Is it really that different if a player wins the MVP and their team loses in the wildcard round than if the team misses the post season by 1 game? 

We must keep in mind that Percy Harvin was in the MVP discussion not too long ago, so how you draw the conclusion that Peterson was the "sole" reason the vikings were relevant is beyond me. I think you need to look at the bigger picture as opposed to telling other people that they need too...

But I do agree with your sentiment that the playoffs (or lack there of) should not define the trophy.

[southwest1]

1 last point: Whenever Dallas gets soundly defeated, I am giddy like a small child opening presents on Christmas morning. Whenever the Colts emerge victorious over New England, I experience temporary relief followed by a compulsion to examine where we were weakest & will be exploited in our next head to head confrontation with Brady & Belichick.

The chess saga of brilliant strategy continues...Capitulation is never an option...To the last breath, my beloved Colts surrender nothing...

[Jay Kirk]

I could see the press/media personnel doing that Jay. Funny really, initially I dismissed Adrian Peterson as MVP, but now I think AP should win something this year. Manning should get Comeback Player Of The Year. Tom Brady deserves something too though...Dual MVP perhaps...Foxboro fans have a right to be royally ticked off if Brady gets nothing...Brady's consistency is remarkable though. I am very impressed with Brady this year anyway. 

My guess is any of them will be willing to trade off the awards for the big ring

[JerodMayo51]

Excellent Point. It seems ex-Colts fans/Broncos fans have tunnel vision. Peyton can do no wrong. Those playoff losses? Not his fault. 9-10 record? Playoff wins are a team accomplishment. 1 SB ring? Teams win championships. There is literally an excuse for every single thing Manning does. Vice versa for Brady's success. His rings? Defense won it. 50 TD record? Well he needed 16 games. Winning percentage? Because of Bill Belichick. It's so hypocritical that it's alarming. Don't get me started on how they cling onto Eli when Peyton loses or Brady wins. 

You forgot, Randy Moss MADE Tom Brady.. After all, remember how good he made Dante Culpepper look? But not Manning, he makes super stars out of stuff you find under a dumpster in a dark ally! He is a god among men! He has never been surrounded with talent once in his entire career!

[JerodMayo51]

Oh and I almost forgot, without Adam Vinitieri, the Patriots would have never won any Super Bowls! Lets ignore the 5 field goals that the Colts scored against the Ravens when they couldn't score a single touchdown in the playoffs! We don't want to talk about that! For the Patriots though, it was all Adam V and the Defense that won those rings! Brady just managed the game and is an average QB!

[JerodMayo51]

And the Patriots lost to the Cardinals... and have a worse record than the Broncos.. ya know.. just stating facts for ya Pats fans that wanna throw that mud around.

They lost to the Cardinals when they started the year hot and were 5-0... The Cardinals were beating everyone, they looked like a Super Bowl team at the start of the year, but they were not able to keep that level of play and eventually fell apart. They were one of the best teams right out of the gate when the Patriots played them. Also, Stephen Ghostkowski missed the game winning field goal in that game. The Patriots first 3 losses of the year were by a combined total of 4 points....