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#41 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

OL help and more true 3-4 defensive lineman should be added


Onward Princeton Forward Princeton

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#42 Matticusp83

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

call it being a homer. but...does anyone think there is a chance that Grigs trades up or maybe even he falls and drafts Te'o? and if so do you think it would be a good move. just a thought. 



#43 chad72

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:32 PM

The board won't implode. In fact the only thing that will happen is there will be different topics to be read as there always is... And there always will be... Forever... Never understood what people are talking about when saying these boards over react. It's just descussions to me. I've been on these boards for the past 6 seasons. My posts don't say it but we had a switch over and it took them all away lol

 

I agree, the board wont implode.

 

We have a culture of winning that was established on and off initially during the Peyton years and then came the consistency at the top. I do think Luck has to win the division a couple of times at least by the time his rookie contract is done (first 5 years) and that would be plenty to keep the fan base happy, at least the ones who are willing to see the forest for the trees. A few home playoff games can definitely energize a fan base, IMO.



#44 GoColts8818

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:33 PM


call it being a homer. but...does anyone think there is a chance that Grigs trades up or maybe even he falls and drafts Te'o? and if so do you think it would be a good move. just a thought.
te'o is probably a top five pick so I doubt we can get him. Also middle linebacker is maybe our deepest spot on the roster so he doesn't really fill a need as much as I like him.
Thank You Peyton! I look forward to the day you come home and we get to do this good bye thing right!

#45 UKColt13

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

I think the offense and defense will have more time to fill holes and become more of a unit. Although the thought of a winners schedule worries me. I wouldn't be surprised to see us go 7-9/8-8.
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#46 coltsrule91

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

next year we wont be a surprise. people are gonna expect us to win and its gonna come down to how our young players respond


its not T.Y its T.watttttttttt WHAT DID T JUST DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


#47 Gavin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

Next year is only a few weeks away...the combine then the draft. So, that being said i think we still have upgrades to make along the offensive and defensive line as well as in both backfields.

 

I feel pretty confident that Freeney will not be back. Mathis seems to have fit in pretty well at his new spot. Freeney not so much. So, I think DE/OLB is a big need. Some of the FA corners that Grigson brought in stepped up big time this year. Can they continue to produce?

 

I also think that RB is an area that can be addressed. We need some speed back there to go with the bruisers that we already have. I think Donald Brown has seen his last game as a Colt. On the other side of the coin I think we are very well set at WR and TE.

Brown has a year left on his deal



#48 Gavin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

I think we will build on this season but we ould be in for a rude awakening next year if we dont fix this O Line



#49 theanarchist

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:33 AM

Brown has a year left on his deal

May bad. I thought this was the last year of his contract. Brown had not lived up to his draft position. He's had a few nice games but I expected more from him. That being said, if he is back next year then RB is not a big need. OL and DE/OLB are going to be needs for sure. I think Grigson did a pretty good job with the draft last year. Of course he was drafting at the top of each round. So the difficulty factor goes up this year with drafting in the 20's



#50 Warhorse

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:04 AM

You will always have overly optimistic everywhere you go. You will have people who are not optimistic enough. Who is to say one is right over the other? This board is not for "logical analysis's" It is for discussion of NFL/Colts football. In what ever way, as long as it is abiding by the rules of the forum, the thread starter decides. The Forum will not collapse on itself. People will come and go. It always has.

 

 

Just curious...how long have you been posting about the NFL? This is a serious question btw. I have been posting since the beginning of the internet, and I have seen at least 5 major forums collapse. They are all either completely gone, or they are a shell of their former self. No, this is not a "The sky is falling" moment. It is true that all opinions are welcome on this board, but it is also prudent, imo, to listen to the changes and acknowledge both where we are going and what we might be losing.  (the rest of this reply is not directed at you)

 

Fans have become increasingly more disconnected from their teams through the advent of fantasy football, and it is commonplace to see fans rooting for a player to score on their team, even though their team will still win, because they have a fantasy player on the other team. Fans can spell that any way they want, but it is undermining of the concept of believing in your team. If a fan is younger, and has only recently followed the NFL (10 years or less?), then their experience may be limited as to how fans have traditionally followed their team. Of course there are always exceptions, but the norm has shifted drastically.

 

I have taken part in dozens of forums in the last 15 years both as a fan as as a mod. After well over 100K in posts, I can at least suggest that my perspective is wide enough to give an opinion on what we have lost. I am realizing now that this new style of following one's team, does not seem to acknowledge that anything was lost. So be it. The support, the gumption, the spine if you will in fans has morphed into a thing now called, "truth", "reality", and a getting rid of (blank) colored glasses. Yes....... it is absolutely true that those new attitudes and views are just as legitimate as mine or the view of anyone else. But it is also absolutely true that those who see that view, may have lost something extremely important, and they really do not even know what was lost. What was absolute exhilaration for me in 2006, when we won the SB, seemed to be more of a relief for many of the new fans, as if they had expected it for so long that "Thank god we finally won the SB" was the feeling. For me it was a triumphant achievement after 36 years of believing. The joy was indescribable, and was the antithesis of relief......it was belief,  meeting accomplishment.

 

But even as I type this (the word type bellies my old age), I feel like I'm shouting in the wind, and no one is listening. It is the bane of aging, you eventually sound like your father, and you swore you never would. ;)

 

Alas, I love the Colts, and I love to interact with others who follow my team, but I must also be real and say that a change in coming for me. I don't know when, but I still feel it, like a wind that I can't stop. my reality is that this experience, is so drastically altered by the emergence of this new style of fan, that it has really taken most of the fun out of why I interact in a Colts forum. I would not be surprised if my existence and commentary affects the enjoyment of those fans as well. Sometimes things just are.

 

When the change comes for me, I will miss the dry and subtle humor that appears in the unlikeliest of places....in between the posts. I guess that is really why I still take part in this. For now I'll just say thank you to those who follow this team in such a way that enhances my own experience. But for now, I have to get going to work...and we have one last game before the playoffs. This season, this moment, is rare. There are no expectations......just living the moment.


"Anyone a die harder fan? I will be there believing to the end. Who is with me?" Thread started by Steveeoaktree33 at 2:49 PM of the day the Colts executed the second largest comeback in NFL playoff history. Very few concurred.


#51 Warhorse

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

I think we will build on this season but we ould be in for a rude awakening next year if we dont fix this O Line

My guess is that is priority one with Grigs and he already has a big board with a pile of chalk dust on the floor beneath it.


"Anyone a die harder fan? I will be there believing to the end. Who is with me?" Thread started by Steveeoaktree33 at 2:49 PM of the day the Colts executed the second largest comeback in NFL playoff history. Very few concurred.


#52 schwamm

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

My guess is that is priority one with Grigs and he already has a big board with a pile of chalk dust on the floor beneath it.
I really appreciate your previous post, Warhorse, but am quoting this one for brevity. It seems you and I think very much alike, and I would've "liked" it a couple dozen times, if I could.

As for Grigs and the OLine, I have no doubt it is priority one, but I worry that building a quality line is never easy. Polian made it a high priority too, and spent a good number of picks trying to make up for the loss of Tarik, Lilja and Scott. At the time of their drafts those newer guys all looked like solid replacements on paper, but the line still progressively got worse.

Moreover, OLines all around the NFL seem to be worse on average than ones 10 years ago, at least to me, or aren't increasing in skill level at the same rate as DLines.

I trust in Grig's eye for talent, but hope people don't get their expectations too high. Even with the team's cap space, the line is not likely to be fixed quickly.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#53 Bubba

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:12 PM

Colts fans are generally like pampered children.If we fail to reach the playoffs next year I believe this board would implode.

I'll admit that I'm a pampered Colts fan if thats what you want to call it. There is zero excuses that we shouldn't make the playoffs again next year and the year after that and so on. I don't stand for a mediocre performance with the amount of money these guys get paid and how much I have to pay for my tickets.

#54 Gavin

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

May bad. I thought this was the last year of his contract. Brown had not lived up to his draft position. He's had a few nice games but I expected more from him. That being said, if he is back next year then RB is not a big need. OL and DE/OLB are going to be needs for sure. I think Grigson did a pretty good job with the draft last year. Of course he was drafting at the top of each round. So the difficulty factor goes up this year with drafting in the 20's

I agree on most of what ya said, I think a draft pick should have been used on an O Lineman earlier but that just was not gonna happen with all the O Linemen we brought in vie Free Agency, I agree Briwn has not lived up his draft position but he also has not been given the keys to carry the load in the running game, He had 4.8 ypc last year on limited carries and 3.9 behind the mess that is our O Line last year and statistically was better the Ballard before he got injured. None of this is to say I dont like Ballard because I definitly do, I love a power running game even more then a speed back (although Brown had power considering most of his runs were between the tackles)Ballards fumbles are a worry to me eventhough we have not lost one. I get the argument that if he is getting yards and only fumbling a few times then no big deal, But what if those fumbles are not recovered by the offense? does it become a big deal then? Then there is Brown who has not fumbled since 2009 (his rookie year)



#55 Dustin

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

If we can get the O-line sured up I foresee little-to-no regression on offense. Defense on the other hand.....


Mock Draft (Last updated 4/14/2014)

2- Marcus Smith (OLB, Louisville), 3- Dion Bailey (S, USC), 5- Aaron Lynch (DE, USF), 6 - Henry Josey (RB, Missouri), 7- Aaron Colvin (CB, Oklahoma)


#56 Captain Americolt

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

call it being a homer. but...does anyone think there is a chance that Grigs trades up or maybe even he falls and drafts Te'o? and if so do you think it would be a good move. just a thought. 
That's some great photoshop work.




Te'o is beast. Just drafting him no matter what the circumstances are would be a great move. Just not a necessity for us.

#57 ConBro

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

To be honest, I am more excited for the coming offseason more than next season (at the moment). With the squad Grigson put together through draft and free agency this year and a lot of big name free agents this offseason, it's going to be another fun ride!


:blueshoe: 2013 AFC South Champions :blueshoe:

 


#58 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

snipped for brevity-

 

"Fans have become increasingly more disconnected from their teams through the advent of fantasy football, and it is commonplace to see fans rooting for a player to score on their team, even though their team will still win, because they have a fantasy player on the other team.  ...

...

There are no expectations......just living the moment."

Learned my lesson in the 90's and fantasy baseball, and never have done fantasy football because of it, and items you bring forth.  Thanks.


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.”       -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

 


#59 Indianapolis-Colts-Fan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:42 AM

Just curious...how long have you been posting about the NFL? This is a serious question btw. I have been posting since the beginning of the internet, and I have seen at least 5 major forums collapse. They are all either completely gone, or they are a shell of their former self. No, this is not a "The sky is falling" moment. It is true that all opinions are welcome on this board, but it is also prudent, imo, to listen to the changes and acknowledge both where we are going and what we might be losing. (the rest of this reply is not directed at you)

Fans have become increasingly more disconnected from their teams through the advent of fantasy football, and it is commonplace to see fans rooting for a player to score on their team, even though their team will still win, because they have a fantasy player on the other team. Fans can spell that any way they want, but it is undermining of the concept of believing in your team. If a fan is younger, and has only recently followed the NFL (10 years or less?), then their experience may be limited as to how fans have traditionally followed their team. Of course there are always exceptions, but the norm has shifted drastically.

I have taken part in dozens of forums in the last 15 years both as a fan as as a mod. After well over 100K in posts, I can at least suggest that my perspective is wide enough to give an opinion on what we have lost. I am realizing now that this new style of following one's team, does not seem to acknowledge that anything was lost. So be it. The support, the gumption, the spine if you will in fans has morphed into a thing now called, "truth", "reality", and a getting rid of (blank) colored glasses. Yes....... it is absolutely true that those new attitudes and views are just as legitimate as mine or the view of anyone else. But it is also absolutely true that those who see that view, may have lost something extremely important, and they really do not even know what was lost. What was absolute exhilaration for me in 2006, when we won the SB, seemed to be more of a relief for many of the new fans, as if they had expected it for so long that "Thank god we finally won the SB" was the feeling. For me it was a triumphant achievement after 36 years of believing. The joy was indescribable, and was the antithesis of relief......it was belief, meeting accomplishment.

But even as I type this (the word type bellies my old age), I feel like I'm shouting in the wind, and no one is listening. It is the bane of aging, you eventually sound like your father, and you swore you never would. ;)

Alas, I love the Colts, and I love to interact with others who follow my team, but I must also be real and say that a change in coming for me. I don't know when, but I still feel it, like a wind that I can't stop. my reality is that this experience, is so drastically altered by the emergence of this new style of fan, that it has really taken most of the fun out of why I interact in a Colts forum. I would not be surprised if my existence and commentary affects the enjoyment of those fans as well. Sometimes things just are.

When the change comes for me, I will miss the dry and subtle humor that appears in the unlikeliest of places....in between the posts. I guess that is really why I still take part in this. For now I'll just say thank you to those who follow this team in such a way that enhances my own experience. But for now, I have to get going to work...and we have one last game before the playoffs. This season, this moment, is rare. There are no expectations......just living the moment.

This is probably my 7th season posting in forums. I've looked in other forums like colts freaks and coltpower. I wasn't around that far back but for as you say, the past 10 years. I haven't seen ANY failing seasons until last year but I watched every game I could and listened to the rest of them. The first win we got was very emotional for me and made me extremely happy (it was much to my surprise that I was as happy as I was lol). The only reason I started watching football was because of my dad (who was originally a Vikings fan, and then a bears fan, and then became more of a major colts fan after the move and then the 1995 season). I've always been there watching football. First game I watched was rams vs raiders. I remember the rams won but I don't remember the year. After that it was always colts football. And for me it always will be. I've grown up watching Peyton manning and the triplets. I loved that team and they amazed me at how good they were. After Peyton left I've stayed with the colts. I don't like the broncos and I don't think I ever will unless I myself play for them. Peyton is a bronco. And the only reason I want them to succeed because I think Peyton deserves more SBs. I'm not sure what you mean by the change in fans. I do remember when fantasy football was introduced. I've never gotten involved with it and I never will. I've just always enjoyed this team and watching it get better week in and week out. This year so far has been the most exciting for me to watch and my dreams of this year are as high as the sky. I believe we can win the SB. Not that we will even make it. But if we don't I will still love how this season turned out.

#60 conklincolt

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:57 AM

this year last place schelue  next year second place schelue.  no rams and browns games next year.



#61 theanarchist

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:57 AM

I agree on most of what ya said, I think a draft pick should have been used on an O Lineman earlier but that just was not gonna happen with all the O Linemen we brought in vie Free Agency, I agree Briwn has not lived up his draft position but he also has not been given the keys to carry the load in the running game, He had 4.8 ypc last year on limited carries and 3.9 behind the mess that is our O Line last year and statistically was better the Ballard before he got injured. None of this is to say I dont like Ballard because I definitly do, I love a power running game even more then a speed back (although Brown had power considering most of his runs were between the tackles)Ballards fumbles are a worry to me eventhough we have not lost one. I get the argument that if he is getting yards and only fumbling a few times then no big deal, But what if those fumbles are not recovered by the offense? does it become a big deal then? Then there is Brown who has not fumbled since 2009 (his rookie year)

Ya, like I said. Brown is decent. Like I have said about Jerry Hughes, he was drafted too high. I'm not really complaining because Brown can be a solid running back as can Vick Ballard. Two different styles in my opinion but both can be effective. Neither one is going to be a 1200 yeard back especially with our OL being pieced together this year. If we add a couple of good pieces to the line then it might be a different story. Ballard's fumbles are concerning whether they are recovered by the offense or not. if there is one stat that will indicate win or loss it's turnovers. So, like i say when Grigs assesses his team needs come draft time I don't think RB comes up on the list before OL, DL, OLB and probably defensive secondary. Just my opinion. But drafts are funny, it would be tough to pass on a great RB talent if one falls unexpectedly also.



#62 schwamm

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:03 AM

This is probably my 7th season posting in forums. I've looked in other forums like colts freaks and coltpower. I wasn't around that far back but for as you say, the past 10 years. I haven't seen ANY failing seasons until last year but I watched every game I could and listened to the rest of them. The first win we got was very emotional for me and made me extremely happy (it was much to my surprise that I was as happy as I was lol). The only reason I started watching football was because of my dad (who was originally a Vikings fan, and then a bears fan, and then became more of a major colts fan after the move and then the 1995 season). I've always been there watching football. First game I watched was rams vs raiders. I remember the rams won but I don't remember the year. After that it was always colts football. And for me it always will be. I've grown up watching Peyton manning and the triplets. I loved that team and they amazed me at how good they were. After Peyton left I've stayed with the colts. I don't like the broncos and I don't think I ever will unless I myself play for them. Peyton is a bronco. And the only reason I want them to succeed because I think Peyton deserves more SBs. I'm not sure what you mean by the change in fans. I do remember when fantasy football was introduced. I've never gotten involved with it and I never will. I've just always enjoyed this team and watching it get better week in and week out. This year so far has been the most exciting for me to watch and my dreams of this year are as high as the sky. I believe we can win the SB. Not that we will even make it. But if we don't I will still love how this season turned out.
I can't claim to speak for Warhorse, but from my POV, the change in fans is all a matter of perspective. I think fans who've followed this team during its struggles (end of Baltimore era, first 15 years in Indy) simply see the successes and struggles differently than fans who've only known the winning of the Manning era.

I can only imagine it would be impossible to accept being middle to bottom of the pack when all you've known is an amazingly successful team... But I, and I assume many others here, spent good money to sit in a largely empty, and often wrong-colored, Hoosier Dome to watch YEARS of mediocre football. The way I understood Warhorse's post was that fans who've been around longer tend to savor the success, where newer fans just expect it.

I part ways with Warhorse's take when it comes to fantasy football, tho, because I've been playing it since well before "Gore invented the Internet", back to when we used to work it all out on scratch pads from stats posted in the newspaper.

For me, I am better able to savor my team's successes when I am very aware of the players on the opponent's sideline.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#63 Warhorse

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:02 PM

I can't claim to speak for Warhorse, but from my POV, the change in fans is all a matter of perspective. I think fans who've followed this team during its struggles (end of Baltimore era, first 15 years in Indy) simply see the successes and struggles differently than fans who've only known the winning of the Manning era.

I can only imagine it would be impossible to accept being middle to bottom of the pack when all you've known is an amazingly successful team... But I, and I assume many others here, spent good money to sit in a largely empty, and often wrong-colored, Hoosier Dome to watch YEARS of mediocre football. The way I understood Warhorse's post was that fans who've been around longer tend to savor the success, where newer fans just expect it.

I part ways with Warhorse's take when it comes to fantasy football, tho, because I've been playing it since well before "Gore invented the Internet", back to when we used to work it all out on scratch pads from stats posted in the newspaper.

For me, I am better able to savor my team's successes when I am very aware of the players on the opponent's sideline.

You described it very well. I too remember those days of early fantasy football. We had to write our selections (there were no midseason changes, redrafts, or trades), and you stuck the paper on a wall at the local tavern by closing time, Saturday night. There were no Thursday games, and I can't remember if Saturday games had started then...I think so. All in all though, I dont think fantasy fotball is bad, I just wanted to say that the disconnection from the team, came along with it. It brought in fans who never had that dedication to root and believe in one team.


"Anyone a die harder fan? I will be there believing to the end. Who is with me?" Thread started by Steveeoaktree33 at 2:49 PM of the day the Colts executed the second largest comeback in NFL playoff history. Very few concurred.


#64 subvet

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

Just curious...how long have you been posting about the NFL? This is a serious question btw. I have been posting since the beginning of the internet, and I have seen at least 5 major forums collapse. They are all either completely gone, or they are a shell of their former self. No, this is not a "The sky is falling" moment. It is true that all opinions are welcome on this board, but it is also prudent, imo, to listen to the changes and acknowledge both where we are going and what we might be losing.  (the rest of this reply is not directed at you)

 

Fans have become increasingly more disconnected from their teams through the advent of fantasy football, and it is commonplace to see fans rooting for a player to score on their team, even though their team will still win, because they have a fantasy player on the other team. Fans can spell that any way they want, but it is undermining of the concept of believing in your team. If a fan is younger, and has only recently followed the NFL (10 years or less?), then their experience may be limited as to how fans have traditionally followed their team. Of course there are always exceptions, but the norm has shifted drastically.

 

I have taken part in dozens of forums in the last 15 years both as a fan as as a mod. After well over 100K in posts, I can at least suggest that my perspective is wide enough to give an opinion on what we have lost. I am realizing now that this new style of following one's team, does not seem to acknowledge that anything was lost. So be it. The support, the gumption, the spine if you will in fans has morphed into a thing now called, "truth", "reality", and a getting rid of (blank) colored glasses. Yes....... it is absolutely true that those new attitudes and views are just as legitimate as mine or the view of anyone else. But it is also absolutely true that those who see that view, may have lost something extremely important, and they really do not even know what was lost. What was absolute exhilaration for me in 2006, when we won the SB, seemed to be more of a relief for many of the new fans, as if they had expected it for so long that "Thank god we finally won the SB" was the feeling. For me it was a triumphant achievement after 36 years of believing. The joy was indescribable, and was the antithesis of relief......it was belief,  meeting accomplishment.

 

But even as I type this (the word type bellies my old age), I feel like I'm shouting in the wind, and no one is listening. It is the bane of aging, you eventually sound like your father, and you swore you never would. ;)

 

Alas, I love the Colts, and I love to interact with others who follow my team, but I must also be real and say that a change in coming for me. I don't know when, but I still feel it, like a wind that I can't stop. my reality is that this experience, is so drastically altered by the emergence of this new style of fan, that it has really taken most of the fun out of why I interact in a Colts forum. I would not be surprised if my existence and commentary affects the enjoyment of those fans as well. Sometimes things just are.

 

When the change comes for me, I will miss the dry and subtle humor that appears in the unlikeliest of places....in between the posts. I guess that is really why I still take part in this. For now I'll just say thank you to those who follow this team in such a way that enhances my own experience. But for now, I have to get going to work...and we have one last game before the playoffs. This season, this moment, is rare. There are no expectations......just living the moment.

Horse, I loooove reading your posts!  I'd like to elaborate on a lot of the things I read but using a 7 inch tablet with a virtual keyboard really takes time and make one mistake, the whole message disappears!


Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway-John Wayne

gallery_3_63_39724.jpg


#65 Coltsman1788

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

What happens next year will depend upon how well we address offensive line and the defense during the offseason.  Unless they build up their offensive line and get even an average defense, Colts likely won't really be a serious Super Bowl contender.   They could possibly make the playoffs again but as we all know..."one and dones" get old real quick.  

 

The Colts seem to have arrived way ahead of schedule in terms of becoming a playoff team but in some ways this # their ability to stockpile young talent in the draft with higher picks.  It will be interesting to see how Grigson proceeds with Year 2 of the rebuild during the offseason.  We don't really want to add too much age in free agency since we still want to continue to build a nice young nucleus to grow and develop along with Luck.  At the same time, the Colts are coming along much sooner than expected and may just be ready for a few key veteran additions to put us over the top.  Hopefully, Grigs will strike the right balance. 


"This Trophy has a lot of glory but we are going to give the glory to God." --Jim Irsay.
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    Opening against the Broncos. Maybe this is a sign of destiny?

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