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The "Norv Turner to Indy as OC" rumors begin!

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The Arians system sucks. Don't see how anyone can like it. It looks good when the QB can bounce off rushers and sling the ball around,but it's not a system I would want to see Luck in after this yr. Too bad Andy Reid doesnt want to be an OC

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Arians is a dreadful coordinator. Steelers fans warned us and we're seeing it ourselves. If he gets a HC offer I'd be shocked if he didn't take it, and I'll be extremely grateful for his work filling in for Chuck, but I really don't want Arians pulling the strings on offence any more.

 

I don't agree.  He also got 2 SB appearances, winning one in his last 4 years there.  That is the stuff I want here.

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The Arians system sucks. Don't see how anyone can like it. It looks good when the QB can bounce off rushers and sling the ball around,but it's not a system I would want to see Luck in after this yr. Too bad Andy Reid doesnt want to be an OC

 

10 - 5 liking it... very much.  We need better players to fit scheme.  It will come.  Grigson and Pagano know this and will draft  / sign FA's accordingly.

 

We were playing like Andy Reid type WCO in early second half and getting our tails handed to us!

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This seems to be runaway speculation.....

Why would Arians leave Andrew Luck and a team full of offensive rookies on the rise...

slow down everybody... we dont even know if Chuck Pagano will be healthy enough to be the Colts coach next year

um, for a chance to build and coach his own team...maybe. ;) another I'd keep an eye on should he get fired is Jason Garrett. dont like him as a head coach but like his offense. he knows how to utilize tight ends. :)

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10 - 5 liking it... very much.  We need better players to fit scheme.  It will come.  Grigson and Pagano know this and will draft  / sign FA's accordingly.

 

We were playing like Andy Reid type WCO in early second half and getting our tails handed to us!

I agree with you here, ColtsBlueFL. Also, I don't care much what the Steelers fans like or don't like. Fans usually complain about everything. It's what Ben Roethlisberger thinks that should matter more, and he loved Arians and his system. I have a feeling that Luck would want Arians to return next year.

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um, for a chance to build and coach his own team...maybe. ;) another I'd keep an eye on should he get fired is Jason Garrett. dont like him as a head coach but like his offense. he knows how to utilize tight ends. :)

 

He does use his tight ends, but I really -- REALLY -- don't like his offense. It's too cute for its own good, and it has a lot of slow-developing pass plays as well.

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I agree with you here, ColtsBlueFL. Also, I don't care much what the Steelers fans like or don't like. Fans usually complain about everything. It's what Ben Roethlisberger thinks that should matter more, and he loved Arians and his system. I have a feeling that Luck would want Arians to return next year.

 

I don't think there's any doubt about it. His players love him, and they are much more credible than us message board people. But I'm really not thrilled with Arians' offense or his gameplanning.

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10 - 5 liking it... very much.  We need better players to fit scheme.  It will come.  Grigson and Pagano know this and will draft  / sign FA's accordingly.

 

We were playing like Andy Reid type WCO in early second half and getting our tails handed to us!

Do you think the schedule had a little bit to do with 10-5?

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I don't dislike BA, I just don't like the plays he calls sometime where he gets luck blown up cause our line can't hold. Maybe with a better line we will see a better ran offense. I just want whatever system that is going to show lucks talent. Without getting him killed

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Well everyone wanting Norv if Arians  is offered and accepts a HC job better be careful what you wish for because if god forbid Pagano would have a set back we would have Norv Turner for our HC.  :omg:  No thanks is my vote. :)

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I don't agree.  He also got 2 SB appearances, winning one in his last 4 years there.  That is the stuff I want here.

I think Dick LeBeau might ask for a bit more credit on that than Bruce Arians.

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You, sir, are wrong.  There are differences, but more similar than not.  N. Turners offense is an Air Coryell variant.  Turner learned it from Don Coryell's assistant Ernie Zampese.  Arians and Turners offense scheme are both considered vertical passing attacks.  Mike Matz version the most radical of them all. Nothing like it would be Bill Walshes West Coast Offense.  Tom Moore has been an advocate of the Air Coryell scheme, BTW.

 

Well...   props to you for being polite,  I'm rarely called 'Sir'... 

 

Look....   I have no desire to debate you.    But I'm old enough to have watched Air Coryell at San Diego State and with the Chargers, and, living in Los Angeles, as, being a member of the media,  I also watched Ernie Zampese with the Rams.  I've interviewed Zampese with the Rams.    So, I know both guys really well.

 

And you yourself used the key words....  Turner's offense is a 'variant' of Coryell.    That leaves lots of room for....   variation.

 

Turner's offense is NOT the same as Arians.    It's not.

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I think Dick LeBeau might ask for a bit more credit on that than Bruce Arians.

Then you want Irsay/Grigson to get LeBeau...

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Well...   props to you for being polite,  I'm rarely called 'Sir'... 

 

Look....   I have no desire to debate you.    But I'm old enough to have watched Air Coryell at San Diego State and with the Chargers, and, living in Los Angeles, as, being a member of the media,  I also watched Ernie Zampese with the Rams.  I've interviewed Zampese with the Rams.    So, I know both guys really well.

 

And you yourself used the key words....  Turner's offense is a 'variant' of Coryell.    That leaves lots of room for....   variation.

 

Turner's offense is NOT the same as Arians.    It's not.

 

These were your words- verbatim

 

"As to Turner.   His system is nothing like Arians'.   Nothing."

 

They are both vertical passing attack variants.  Schemes built from the same tree. Bill Walsh WCO and variants  is " nothing like Arians" system.

 

.

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The Arians system sucks. Don't see how anyone can like it. It looks good when the QB can bounce off rushers and sling the ball around,but it's not a system I would want to see Luck in after this yr. Too bad Andy Reid doesnt want to be an OC

 

 

Personally,  I don't want Andy Reid as an OC.

 

He's one of the leading proponents of de-emphasizing the running game and passing more.   I heard people this week on ESPN and the NFL network say Reid was ahead of the curve in throwing more.   He's got a great weapon like LeShon McCoy and doesn't even use him enough or properly.

 

Well...   I'm not a big believer in just throwing more.    I like offenses like SF and Seattle and even Washington this year.   Attacks that feature the running game and take pressure off the QB.    That's why young QB's in those cities are succeeding.   They're not asked to do too much and they're set-up in QB friendly systems.

 

Our system is so QB UN-friendly it's painful for me to watch.   Literally painful.

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These were your words- verbatim

 

"As to Turner.   His system is nothing like Arians'.   Nothing."

 

They are both vertical passing attack variants.  Schemes built from the same tree. Bill Walsh WCO and variants  is " nothing like Arians" system.

 

.

 

Fine.

 

You move off your position a bit, and I'll move off mine a bit....

 

Otherwise.....   can't help you.

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No one -- repeat, no one -- is talking about firing Arians.   It won't happen.   Period.

 

The story is about Arians taking a job as a Head Coach with another team and the Colts needing to fill the OC position.

 

It would help those that are screaming about why would we get rid of Arians and Pagano is loyal if they would simply read the story that was linked.    Reading would be helpful.    Then you'd know what the circumstances are that we're talking about.

 

As to Turner.   His system is nothing like Arians'.   Nothing.   And he's a widely recognized outstanding OC.    I'd be happy to have him.

 

It was clear once again today that OC Bruce Arians does not help HC Bruce Arians one bit.    We make this so much harder on ourselves than we have to.

Then explain to me why we would want to spend another season learning a new system? This team is hot. We can make a serious run at this thing in the near future (if not miraculously this year) with a few additions through the FA and draft. Why learn a new system? Pray that he stays here.

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Fine.

 

You move off your position a bit, and I'll move off mine a bit....

 

Otherwise.....   can't help you.

 

 

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/news/story?id=3559627  (Chargers - Pittsburgh sections)

 

 
 
Arians and turnmers systems, while not identical, are more similar than different.  OK. Better now?
 
 
 
 
 

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It's been so long since Norv was just an OC and not a HC/OC, I can't remember if he was as good as some of you say. He would definitely not be a young gun, but more of a rehash much like Arians or Tom Moore. Is that really what we want? I am surprised younger OC's are not being mentioned....and please, never mention Jason Garrett anymore on this board. We are building a monster, not a dollhouse.

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I don't dislike BA, I just don't like the plays he calls sometime where he gets luck blown up cause our line can't hold. Maybe with a better line we will see a better ran offense. I just want whatever system that is going to show lucks talent. Without getting him killed
.

This. Sometimes I feel his offense shoots itself in the foot (Like Hilton passing the ball) and it seems we force it deep when it's just not there. Luck struggles with some of the throws he needs to make, for whatever reason, and it seems like he's... awkward. Like he's out of his comfort zone.

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It's been so long since Norv was just an OC and not a HC/OC, I can't remember if he was as good as some of you say. He would definitely not be a young gun, but more of a rehash much like Arians or Tom Moore. Is that really what we want? I am surprised younger OC's are not being mentioned....and please, never mention Jason Garrett anymore on this board. We are building a monster, not a dollhouse.

 

Well, to his credit, he did have Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Jay Novacek, and Micheal Irvin running his scheme... To SB's and the HOF (for 3 of them),

 

and the driving force for the Chargers O. Which helped take out the Colts perfect season and two playoffs appearances.  Wit the right personnel, it works.  As will Arians.

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Well everyone wanting Norv if Arians  is offered and accepts a HC job better be careful what you wish for because if god forbid Pagano would have a set back we would have Norv Turner for our HC.  :omg:  No thanks is my vote. :)

This...in fact I posted something similar a few days ago.  I have no interest in becoming the Chargers.

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Then explain to me why we would want to spend another season learning a new system? This team is hot. We can make a serious run at this thing in the near future (if not miraculously this year) with a few additions through the FA and draft. Why learn a new system? Pray that he stays here.

 

OK....

 

One more time.    The story that started this thread is about Arians leaving the Colts to become the HC with another franchise.

 

If he leaves we have no choice but to learn another system.

 

OK??     I've tried to make this as simple and straight forward as it seems.

 

And I'm not praying he stays.    Two reasons.   One,  Arians WANTS to be a HC.    I hope he gets his dream.

 

Two,  I think his system is awful.    I think his system doesn't fit Andrew Luck at all.    I think we succeed IN SPITE of the system and not BECAUSE of the system.

 

You, and others here, may disagree.....

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Well....

 

I looked at your links.

 

I do not think they present the picture you think they present.  

 

So,  we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that....

 

I'll add this last thought....     this is the first time I've seen every game of an Arians offense over the course of one season.

 

It's possible,  even likely, that I'm not seeing the offense that Bruce Arians wishes to run.   That the incredible limitations of our OL combined with the incredible number of rookie players has impacted his play calling.    So,  maybe, with a better line which would lead to a better game,  I'd like the Arians offense.

 

But, I've seen the Norv Turner offense.    And, to me at least,  it doesn't look much like what the Colts have displayed this season.

 

Maybe I'll see the similarity next year,  or the year after that.    But this year?    Nope.   Nothing like it.

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Really can't believe this thread even exists right now. Here we are 10-5 and on our way to the playoffs with 4 starting rookies on offense, 5+ different starting offensive linemen sets throughout and people want to think about switching coordinators. Offensive play calling isn't the problem, players readiness is the issue and that simply comes down to having rookies. B.A. would be the first to tell you that they aren't rookies but they are. Enjoy the ride. Bruce's system has worked in getting Luck started in his career and he's got Luck breaking Cam's passing record.

There had been reporters who said this team would finish 1-15. Now is not the time to complain. Enjoy the ride. Chuckstrong.

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OK....

 

One more time.    The story that started this thread is about Arians leaving the Colts to become the HC with another franchise.

 

If he leaves we have no choice but to learn another system.

 

OK??     I've tried to make this as simple and straight forward as it seems.

 

Correct, and original poster mentions N. Turner specifically another poster gives his thoughts, and I piggy baggy back more detail, about a transisiton to Turner in post #16

 

And I'm not praying he stays.    Two reasons.   One,  Arians WANTS to be a HC.    I hope he gets his dream.

 

I do as well, though I would miss him.

 

Two,  I think his system is awful.    I think his system doesn't fit Andrew Luck at all.    I think we succeed IN SPITE of the system and not BECAUSE of the system.

 

You, and others here, may disagree.....

 

 

You get to have that opinion. I respect that.  I get to have another.  We can debate the merits of each others stories, and even use evidence to back up our claims.  

 

You can feel Turners and Arians systems aren't the same, or even similar. But you've offered up no supporting evidence to back your position except conjecture and memories of interviews gone by.  I have done my homework and posted information  So we'll just let others decide from here, I guess.  It's not worth me getting into a tizzy over.  You can hate Arians system all you want, and stick with it. I'm ok with that.  But be prepared to defend your position if you decide to go further than that.

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Really can't believe this thread even exists right now. Here we are 10-5 and on our way to the playoffs with 4 starting rookies on offense, 5+ different starting offensive linemen sets throughout and people want to think about switching coordinators. Offensive play calling isn't the problem, players readiness is the issue and that simply comes down to having rookies. B.A. would be the first to tell you that they aren't rookies but they are. Enjoy the ride. Bruce's system has worked in getting Luck started in his career and he's got Luck breaking Cam's passing record.

There had been reporters who said this team would finish 1-15. Now is not the time to complain. Enjoy the ride. Chuckstrong.

Read the article. This topic isnt calling for a replacement. Its discussing a scenario where BA accepts a HC job somewhere else and we HAVE to replace him.

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I highly doubt Ariens is going anywhere anytime soon. Hes had this great success and has deveoped a relationship with Luck and we have already built our offense to fit his system essentially.If he were to leave we need to find a coach with a simular system or alot of our rookies my be in a bad fit. I think its a 98% chance he stays. Plus hes very happy and excited with what he has here. It would have to be a really good head coach offer to take him.

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The question is which team would hire Arians. If it is KC or Cards, he would be foolish to take it without a franchise QB there. Eagles, Panthers would be good jobs.

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BA isn't going anywhere

 

 

Yep.

 

I do think BA's offense has its flaws and they are magnified by the current roster. But if Luck progresses as he should and the talent around him improves the offense is going to be really good.

 

Having said that, if Arians does leave for a HC position id love to get Turner. He's a great OC and is great at developing QBs.

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I honestly don't know that he is a great offensive coordinator.  Is it possible that he has been fortunate to work with some pretty good QBs?  Reminds me of how NE offensive coordinators are highly thought of, go to other teams, and accomplish nothing.

 

I would rather see someone with a bit more forward thinking.

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Really can't believe this thread even exists right now. Here we are 10-5 and on our way to the playoffs with 4 starting rookies on offense, 5+ different starting offensive linemen sets throughout and people want to think about switching coordinators. Offensive play calling isn't the problem, players readiness is the issue and that simply comes down to having rookies. B.A. would be the first to tell you that they aren't rookies but they are. Enjoy the ride. Bruce's system has worked in getting Luck started in his career and he's got Luck breaking Cam's passing record.

There had been reporters who said this team would finish 1-15. Now is not the time to complain. Enjoy the ride. Chuckstrong.

 

I think it is funny when the "forum police" come in and judge what should or shouldn't post.  It is all speculation.  Would you rather ever post be about "how happy I am we made the playoffs".  Would be a bit of a bore.   BA is likely going to get at least some looks for HC.  So we better have some kind of plan in place.  So what is wrong with the topic or people discussing it?  It is all speculation.

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Right, at this point, he has more head-coaching experience than Chuck does.

The people wanting him gone might be regretting that desire a year from now, especially should Chuck have a relapse. That said, I hope he does get a head coaching opportunity. He has the right temperament and the good leadership skills necessary to be a head coach.

If he wants to be a HC, I hope he finally gets the opportunity. While I have not been a huge fan of his offense, I have enjoyed the product he has put on the field this year. I think he deserves a shot at a HC position.

If this happens, I would be really happy to get Norv Turner in here to take over the offense.

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I think it is funny when the "forum police" come in and judge what should or shouldn't post.  It is all speculation.  Would you rather ever post be about "how happy I am we made the playoffs".  Would be a bit of a bore.   BA is likely going to get at least some looks for HC.  So we better have some kind of plan in place.  So what is wrong with the topic or people discussing it?  It is all speculation.

He will get looks without a doubt but I don't believe he would leave after one season. Norv Turner doesnt really seem like the kinda guy Irsay would hire, even if B.A. happens to go elsewhere.

And yes I would like to see more happiness concerning the Colts going to the postseason. 2-14 the previous year to now and seeing how good this Colts team can be for years down the road and I believe that Arians would rather be with a team that hes already building with. Seems pointless to start building a house if you just are going to have build an even bigger one and probably take longer.

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For eternity???? That's a long time.
No, eternity is what you said, which is a much longer period of time than "always", which is what I said. LOL

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BA isn't going anywhere

 

Looking at the possible open head coaching opportunities, KC makes the most sense in my mind.  In some of the places, he wouldn't be a great fit.  In KC, they really only need a QB to be competitive.  So, you bring in a head coach with good leadership skills who develops QBs.   

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 Norv Turner doesnt really seem like the kinda guy Irsay would hire, even if B.A. happens to go elsewhere.

 

I'm not seeing it either.  I would look at people from Grigson's and Chuck's past. 

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Why don't we wait for BA to get a HC job and for Norv to officially be fired?

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Why don't we wait for BA to get a HC job and for Norv to officially be fired?

 

I understand your point, but Arians will certainly get interviews and Norv is a dead man walking, so it's a legitimate topic.  I don't see Norv in Indy, but it's worthy of discussion. 

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