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#41 BrentMc11

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

In situations yes.  Mix in motion to help in blocking for certain plays.  Run effectively. Get creative on the checkdowns/short patterns. But bootleg/rollouts limit O targets, and the D only has to defend half of the field.  I've seen swing passes blown up, and a quick out to Reggie Wayne recently netted -6 yards, and almost a fumble.  I'ts a difficult job, game planning and play calling.  Tom Moore used to say each and every game has it's own unique feel and flow.  You have to become tuned in for your adjustments in situational play calling and carrying out the objectives of the game plan.  If it was so easy, we'd all be in line to get the position.  :)

Agreed......sometimes it works....sometimes it does not......the nature of the beast....LOVE IT!!!! 

 

It reminds me of a great shooter in basketball.  He or she may be the best shooter in the game.....and go 0-15.  Then come back with 14-15.  Your key words from Moore are well taken....'the flow"  (Tom....not Mewelde btw  haha )


Change is good!  

 

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#42 SteelCityColt

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

Oh agreed its so easy for us to be armchair critics, but the one from Sunday that sticks in my mind was the Schaub PA stretch rollout deep to Johnson. With the the way Ballard was running I think we could have made them bite on a few plays like that.

But then what does a Limey know :P

#43 YOUR GM

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

He said they had more short passing plays dialed up in the gameplan, but since they were running the ball so well, he didn't feel the need to stick with it. He then went on to say that he felt they left too many chunk plays on the field. Typical Arians, if you ask me. His nature is always to force the ball down field. He looks at short passes and running the ball as a chore that has to be done before he can go play with his toys (i.e. throw the ball downfield) The guy is an addict that just can't help himself


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#44 Superman

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

He said they had more short passing plays dialed up in the gameplan, but since they were running the ball so well, he didn't feel the need to stick with it. He then went on to say that he felt they left too many chunk plays on the field. Typical Arians, if you ask me. His nature is always to force the ball down field. He looks at short passes and running the ball as a chore that has to be done before he can go play with his toys (i.e. throw the ball downfield) The guy is an addict that just can't help himself

 

A lot of coordinators view the short passing game as an extension of the running game. So, if you're running the ball well, your need for short passes is lessened. I don't necessarily agree, but I get the point. It's like you said: he wants to use those tools to set up the deep shots, not as a majority component of the offense.

 

I'll also note that Arians did call a few short pass plays, some of which didn't work because of good defense (Barwin knocked down a designed swing pass to Ballard on the right side, and their secondary was very physical with Reggie and the other receivers underneath), others that Luck didn't pull the trigger on. But I do think he should have made a more concerted effort to call high percentage pass plays to complement the run game. If you do that, the big plays will come.


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#45 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:57 AM

He said they had more short passing plays dialed up in the gameplan, but since they were running the ball so well, he didn't feel the need to stick with it. He then went on to say that he felt they left too many chunk plays on the field. Typical Arians, if you ask me. His nature is always to force the ball down field. He looks at short passes and running the ball as a chore that has to be done before he can go play with his toys (i.e. throw the ball downfield) The guy is an addict that just can't help himself

 

That is exactly what the running game and short passes do, free up the medium / deep routes.  But if an o-line cant't do the job, the why even have A. Luck.  Just tell Alex Smith to take a pay cut, and he can have a job... until his nest concussion... :(

 

This is game plan, scheme, and play calling working... but execution is not.  :P

 

Next year, Grigson.  Good O-line next year.


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

#46 YOUR GM

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:52 AM

A lot of coordinators view the short passing game as an extension of the running game. So, if you're running the ball well, your need for short passes is lessened. I don't necessarily agree, but I get the point. It's like you said: he wants to use those tools to set up the deep shots, not as a majority component of the offense.

 

I'll also note that Arians did call a few short pass plays, some of which didn't work because of good defense (Barwin knocked down a designed swing pass to Ballard on the right side, and their secondary was very physical with Reggie and the other receivers underneath), others that Luck didn't pull the trigger on. But I do think he should have made a more concerted effort to call high percentage pass plays to complement the run game. If you do that, the big plays will come.

 

I just want to see a gameplan that shows he's at least paying attention to the pulse of the offense, and the weaknesses of the opposing defense. Going into every post game presser saying, "we gotta protect better" just doesn't cut it for me. At some point (15 weeks into the season) you just have to surrender some of your ideologies and go with what works (and isn't getting your franchise investment for the next 10+ years hit.) This o-line is what it is, and there's no amount of coaching that's going to make them good enough to be effective in this offense this season. Stop ignoring that fact (talking to Arians) and alter the gameplan, already. 

 

Also, did anyone else notice how he kinda contradicted himself a little when asked about being concerned about Luck taking hits? At first he said Andrew is making bad throws because he knows where he wants to go quick and his feet are moving in that direction. He said he needs to stand in the pocket tall and make the throw. Then, when asked about Luck taking hits, he said as long as Andrew is scrambling, the sacks and hits don't hurt as much because they're not head on shots, but the hits where he's stationary, standing in the pocket DO worry him.

 

If those hits worry him, then why (knowing the lack of protection he's had this season) do the bulk of his pass plays require for Luck to do just that, and stay in the pocket? Why not design some rollouts and move the pocket a little? Very puzzling, to me, at least   


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#47 Superman

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

I just want to see a gameplan that shows he's at least paying attention to the pulse of the offense, and the weaknesses of the opposing defense. Going into every post game presser saying, "we gotta protect better" just doesn't cut it for me. At some point (15 weeks into the season) you just have to surrender some of your ideologies and go with what works (and isn't getting your franchise investment for the next 10+ years hit.) This o-line is what it is, and there's no amount of coaching that's going to make them good enough to be effective in this offense this season. Stop ignoring that fact (talking to Arians) and alter the gameplan, already. 

 

Also, did anyone else notice how he kinda contradicted himself a little when asked about being concerned about Luck taking hits? At first he said Andrew is making bad throws because he knows where he wants to go quick and his feet are moving in that direction. He said he needs to stand in the pocket tall and make the throw. Then, when asked about Luck taking hits, he said as long as Andrew is scrambling, the sacks and hits don't hurt as much because they're not head on shots, but the hits where he's stationary, standing in the pocket DO worry him.

 

If those hits worry him, then why (knowing the lack of protection he's had this season) do the bulk of his pass plays require for Luck to do just that, and stay in the pocket? Why not design some rollouts and move the pocket a little? Very puzzling, to me, at least   

 

Co-signed.


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#48 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

I want a game plan that takes what the D gives. And if that is chunk yards down field, then by golly somebody getting paid up front better step up do their job well enough to allow it to happen. IOr coaches set formations to allow it. f it is short dump of passes, Luck better get through his progressions fast  enough or see protection breakdowns to dump it before taking a cover sack.  Move th chains. 14 play drives, 4 play drives. Do not care as long as it results in a TD, or game winning FG.  :)


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

#49 Malakai432

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

But I thought BA had no idea how to run an offense and Luck has regressed into David Carr?

Same, it appears perhaps not to have.

haha

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#50 Malakai432

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

I think we will start to notice perhaps some more shorter passes here in the future. I'm sure if BA stays, which I hope he does things will be completely different next year. Not so much reliance on long routes and deep balls but a better overall scheme. It all starts in the trenches with the OL though they definitely need to get better.

Vontae Davis is what happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object, then they have a kid! 

Dancing Monkey BAM!  :monkeydance: 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Bandit strikes again~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#51 Malakai432

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

So he did make shorter Plays?? Geesh our Offensive Line is Pathetic!!!!!

Secondly, I'd like to apologize for bashing Arians coaching. Appears he does understand we need a shorter pass game but our offensive line can't even seem to handle that. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Guess Arians does care about Lucks Safety after all.

I'm sure everyone cares about Lucks safety even out OL. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do about it.

:(

Vontae Davis is what happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object, then they have a kid! 

Dancing Monkey BAM!  :monkeydance: 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Bandit strikes again~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#52 TKnight24

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

I'm sure everyone cares about Lucks safety even out OL. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do about it.

:(

Sure it's something they can do. When the ball is snapped, GRAB (Don't Hold) the guy in front of you until the ball is Thrown. If no one is in front of you, HELP someone else Block their guy!

But apparently our oline (except Castonzo) failed blocking 101 class
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#53 Gavin

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

Sure it's something they can do. When the ball is snapped, GRAB (Don't Hold) the guy in front of you until the ball is Thrown. If no one is in front of you, HELP someone else Block their guy!

But apparently our oline (except Castonzo) failed blocking 101 class

 

About half the time he fails to



#54 TKnight24

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

About half the time he fails to

Really? I don't see many of our games so I base my opinions a bit off the Chat Room on here. And they say Castonzo is the best lineman we have. Which is obvious though
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#55 Gavin

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

Really? I don't see many of our games so I base my opinions a bit off the Chat Room on here. And they say Castonzo is the best lineman we have. Which is obvious though

He is the best O Lineman we have (I also like Shipley who could become a pretty good O Lineman) but he is still barely average, nothing great about him but he is young and alot of room for improvement



#56 Malakai432

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

Sure it's something they can do. When the ball is snapped, GRAB (Don't Hold) the guy in front of you until the ball is Thrown. If no one is in front of you, HELP someone else Block their guy!

But apparently our oline (except Castonzo) failed blocking 101 class

You got that right.

Vontae Davis is what happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object, then they have a kid! 

Dancing Monkey BAM!  :monkeydance: 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Bandit strikes again~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#57 smittywerb

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

As usual, the main thing that sticks out is the lack of protection.  smh, the off-season can not get here soon enough.


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#58 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

As usual, the main thing that sticks out is the lack of protection.  smh, the off-season can not get here soon enough.

 

We will go short routes, the D will see that and press to defense those. Then what are we left with?  We have to have complete balance, run/pass - short/long. And that means sometimes O linemen have to do a decent job and win their fair share of the battles and earn their paychecks.


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

#59 smittywerb

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

We will go short routes, the D will see that and press to defense those. Then what are we left with?  We have to have complete balance, run/pass - short/long. And that means sometimes O linemen have to do a decent job and win their fair share of the battles and earn their paychecks.

 

 

Yes, we need dynamic OL who can do both.  I don't want to end up with an offense like the Patriots (no offense to anyone).


:pass: :blueshoe: BUILD THE MONSTER! FEED THE MONSTER! :blueshoe: :pass:

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#60 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

Nice read


Onward Princeton Forward Princeton

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#61 basketballsteve

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

When BA answers a question he is often clear and specific (i.e. Luck's high throws are a recurring technique problem). Compare BA's answers to the platitudes we got from Caldwell last year that often left me wondering what did that mean, what did he just say. Night and Day difference.



#62 Hans Moleman

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:58 AM

I did wonder why Wade did not do more of that vs the Pats, or was the Pats' O-line that good across the board. I just saw Watt lined over either of the guards in the Pats game. In the Colts game, he was lined over the tackles too, on either side.

 

I noticed that, too. My gut is that Houston played pretty vanilla defense against the Patriots scheme-wise, particularly with Watt. New England gameplanned to stop Watt, and even though JJ still made some plays, Houston never responded to those adjustments. Since a playoff rematch would happen in Houston regardless of outcome, my theory is that they held back on what they wanted to show New England now.

 

If/when they square off in the playoffs, I'd bet we'll see Watt moved around more like what he did against us. 



#63 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

He said they had more short passing plays dialed up in the gameplan, but since they were running the ball so well, he didn't feel the need to stick with it. He then went on to say that he felt they left too many chunk plays on the field. Typical Arians, if you ask me. His nature is always to force the ball down field. He looks at short passes and running the ball as a chore that has to be done before he can go play with his toys (i.e. throw the ball downfield) The guy is an addict that just can't help himself

 

 

The running play opens up the pass game.  We won today because Ballard started to get running chunks on the KC D.  Then it freed up receivers enough for Luck to 'hit ' one, and get confidence back.  Until then, all of our short passes were defended to the hilt. Luck was 1 for 10 with a sack in the second half at one point, an we were getting nearly 0 or minus yards on the few runs we tried.

 

Ballard runs opens up the D a little, Lucks hits a receiver down field, and we go hurry no huddle and drive down the field for game winning TD.  Textbook.


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

#64 Superman

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

The running play opens up the pass game.  We won today because Ballard started to get running chunks on the KC D.  Then it freed up receivers enough for Luck to 'hit ' one, and get confidence back.  Until then, all of our short passes were defended to the hilt. Luck was 1 for 10 with a sack in the second half at one point, an we were getting nearly 0 or minus yards on the few runs we tried.

 

Ballard runs opens up the D a little, Lucks hits a receiver down field, and we go hurry no huddle and drive down the field for game winning TD.  Textbook.

 

Up til that final drive, we had called two run plays in the second half, one for -2 yards, the other for 7 yards. We had run 14 pass plays; two of them turned into scrambles, one turned into a sack. Luck was 1-10, with another imcompletion wiped out due to a roughing penalty on the Chiefs.

 

This wasn't an issue of us not being able to run; we completely ignored the run through our first four possessions in the second half, and only earned one first down (another due to penalty) during that stretch. Once we started running, we weren't ripping off big gains. Yeah, there was one 11 yarder, but they were mostly 6 yards, 2 yards, 3 yards. It's just that we actually were running the ball, for a change. And we called a screen pass, which you might classify as a run play, that went for 18 yards. Great drive, but it's ridiculous how inept we were up to that point.

 

And we've talked a lot about the offensive play calling recently, you and I, but those first four drives are a perfect example of why I've been critical of Arians play calling. Yes, there were some drops in there, and there was some bad blocking and some bad decisions by Luck, but we called 14 pass plays against 2 run plays, over the course of four possessions, and came up with one first down and zero points. 


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#65 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:14 PM

Up til that final drive, we had called two run plays in the second half, one for -2 yards, the other for 7 yards. We had run 14 pass plays; two of them turned into scrambles, one turned into a sack. Luck was 1-10, with another imcompletion wiped out due to a roughing penalty on the Chiefs.

 

This wasn't an issue of us not being able to run; we completely ignored the run through our first four possessions in the second half, and only earned one first down (another due to penalty) during that stretch. Once we started running, we weren't ripping off big gains. Yeah, there was one 11 yarder, but they were mostly 6 yards, 2 yards, 3 yards. It's just that we actually were running the ball, for a change. And we called a screen pass, which you might classify as a run play, that went for 18 yards. Great drive, but it's ridiculous how inept we were up to that point.

 

And we've talked a lot about the offensive play calling recently, you and I, but those first four drives are a perfect example of why I've been critical of Arians play calling. Yes, there were some drops in there, and there was some bad blocking and some bad decisions by Luck, but we called 14 pass plays against 2 run plays, over the course of four possessions, and came up with one first down and zero points. 

 

 

he was trying all of those short routes, and they were all defended.  Luck lost all confidence.  Arians did abandon run for a spell, and I was mad. But, he knew he had to go back to it or we would fail.  Luckily, he did not abandon it as Ballard moved the ball, Luck got a receiver and some confidence. The we go hurry up no huddle and game over.  


“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick






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